St John parishioners oppose karters’ plan
Thursday 28th October 2010, 2:58PM BST.
Parishioners voiced strong opposition to the plans Picture: JON GUEGAN (01083858)
PLANS to close the loop road at Ronez to make a permanent go-kart track were heavily criticised by St John parishioners last night.
About 120 people packed the parish hall at a meeting called by the Constable, Graeme Butcher, and parish Deputy Phil Rondel to discuss plans by the Jersey Kart and Motor Club to extend the track from 460 metres to 520 metres.
If approved, the plans, which were submitted to the Planning department in September, would lead to the closure of the loop road, with a track left there so that the public could still reach the headland.
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I was there and on reflection it was a very negative meeting with a lot of emotive nimby comments by a noisy few. They might have point but for
1) There is a very noisy quarry there which would be running when the extra racing took place.
2)despite what was said you really cannot hear the karting when it happens certainly not noisy enough to disturb the peace of your garden! Overflying aircraft make more noise as do the cars using the road
3)The area is currently a tip and the Karters spend a lot of time cleaning it up before using
As for the comments about it detracting from Jerseys tourism industry utter rubbish. It might even add to the islands tourism if the Kart club put on open events which attract non Islanders to compete.
Fair play however to Connetable Butcher who let everyone have their say
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its the “nimby” parish
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What a shame that St john has a very selfish minority.I sincerely hope the Kart Club are successful in there application all they are trying to achieve is a major improvement on an already existing facility.I really hope they win the day…….and no I am not a member!
Just let them enjoy their sport they had a really raw deal when Belle Vue was closed from what i recall.
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They can use it and put their stuff away…..and should continue to look for an alternative if that does not suit….or perhaps we could give Victoria Avenue over to the skateboarders they might like a nice flat surface…………
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Maybe if this track was giving the go ahead there would be room to set up a scheme that would take these bunch of little chav’s that wonder the streets of st helier fighting and been general tw*ts at the weekend something to focus on….Why not the plemont site…..?? Its madness i’m sure jersey could very well have the next lewis hamilton….
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so all we want is ex racing drivers living here, not up and coming ones,
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Mr Impartial 3.
It was taken away from them, not just closed.
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@No 5
Be honest with yourself, can you really see all of the underage drinkers going karting? It costs money to go karting which could be better spent by them on more fags and booze…
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Well I was at the meeting and must admit from what I could see, more people were in support of the club, rather than against, however the minority who were against did make a lot more noise… and made it when the media were there!
I saw CTV had a very bias headline that has now been changed (for those who didn’t see it, it said “over 100 people turn up to parish meeting to object kart track”.
Fair play to the JEP, they have kept a very neutral report!
Find it very ironic however that their photo talks about parishioners objecting the site… whereas the person in the photo isn’t a parishioner!
I would love to see the kart club get a permanent circuit as I (along with many other friends/teenagers) are sick an tired with nothing to do and is something I would be happy to get involved with!
#5 & 8 – you narrow minded people…. not every teenager is a chav! I for one am not a chav! AND I do not smoke or drink…. so I would appreciate if you don’t go down the stereo-typical route.
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Only one thing to say
The same old thing NOT IN MY BACK GARDEN syndrome
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@Jersey Teenager
I was at the meeting too and would concur with you entirely and yes well spotted CTV changing their headline in double quick time, you got your post in before me !!. I get the impression and i may well be proved wrong, but i think that some pressure will be applied to the Kart club by various parties to withdraw their application for a “permanent ” facility @ Sorel pending some serious searching by those same various parties to find another less contentious site .
Quite where yet I do not know, any useful suggestions from either Truthseeker , Rozel Aubin , Noway , John , Boyesen reeds ,Mark, I like you , Henrietta Smithers ,Michael Palacio , Bicycles ,Henry Lamont and others that have posted their comments without offering alternatives other than be grateful for what you already have .
For what its worth my top 4 alternative sites would be
1. Les Landes racecourse ( inside the present boundaries )
2. Crabbe
3.Old Butlins site @ Plemont
4.somewhere on the Airport site , this type of arrangement has been used at various airfields on the mainland for years .
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No9
Hmm, not sure how you read into my comment that I’m narrow minded.
Where do I say all teenagers are underage drinkers? All I comment is that it costs money to go karting and it is unrealistic to expect all the current “chavs”, for want of a better term, to simply give up drinking and go karting instead.
Yes I said it in a slightly tongue in cheek manner which I admit is difficult to convey in written form.
The last time I went karting in the UK a few months ago it cost something like £40-50 for about an hour on track. That’s a lot of money for an average teenager (or their parents) to find each week so although this may get one or two kids “off the streets” as it were, it won’t be the panacea for all the problems of Jersey’s youth.
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The comment was more aimed at #5 instead of you.. though still disagreed with the tongue & cheek manner of their money being better spent off in fags & alcohol.
I think it will be interesting to see what the kart club do from here.
As I’m sure you could guess, I was in favour of this project but I appreceate others are not and have their reasons.
Constructive critsisum would be better than the slagging off matches from the previous topic posts though…. and would agree with #11 for the final 2 locations… I actually had a shot at seeing if I could build a circuit with pc programs using the plemont site as reference!
The airport is another possible candidate as it makes noise anyway!
The kart club did try at Crabbé a few years ago with no success for the same reason “not in my back yard”.
Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks!
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@12 Mark
I definitely agree with you that toungue in cheek is hard to get across on a comments site, irony is also difficult to convey , but i am sure you will agree that sarcasm seems to get picked up on straight away !!!!
I hope you enjoyed your karting experience in the UK , I think what Jersey Teenager was trying to convey was that the guys and gals of all ages give up a lot in terms of both time and cash to pursue the motor sport of their choice whether it be karts motocross sand racing or hillclimbs.
I raced karts at Belle Vue as a teenager and as an adult, paying his own way and when my work colleagues who earned the same as me were out all over the weekend spending maybe upwards of £30 or £40 on wine women and song ( inflation eh!)i was either in the garage working on the thing or doing a evening job to help fund my beloved sport.
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This is all very lopsided, there were just as many against the plans at the meeting as for.
When karting started there 12 years ago, it was a temporary measure, as guests of the parish, on a public road, with the parishioners generously agreeing to give them a chance. Since then there have been many complaints about the noise, which the constable admits he hasn’t passed onto the club. Still, the status quo persists with the goodwill of the parish.
The proposals to steal a public road and viewing spot are pushing their luck too far, and are unacceptable.
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15 No way
unacceptable to you it seems, i think we will now have to see what transpires in the planning process
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The temporary status protects this outstanding area of natural beauty in the green zone. Let’s keep it that way, please. the club doesn’t need to own it, it can just carry on with the present generous loan. That way, its activities can be controlled properly and the area protected. Otherwise, another site for the club perhaps.
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The parish agreed to lend the club the land. When, 12 years later, the club wants more, they’re not grateful for that loan, oh no. They shout down anyone who opposes what they want. Let’s not forget the very generous concession and the fact that the plug can be pulled at any time. It seems a bit unlawful anyway, for the club to be there at all because it is an oustanding area of natural beauty in the green zone. Perhaps the club might like to think about that before it shouts any more. I have a few classic cars. Can I have the land to build a shed or two? I know someone else with horses who would like it. I think “put up or shut” up has relevance in the given context….
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JERSEY’S countryside is under serious threat and needs to be protected by more robust laws from developers, a report has warned.
The findings are in the report by the Rural Economy Strategy Scrutiny sub-panel, which is chaired by Deputy Carolyn Labey.
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#11 Gavin McNicol.
I feel under no obligation to offer an alternative, Gavin, since my post relates only to the acquisition by stealth (even if they do ‘purchase’it – let’s see how much, £1? £100?) of a section of the former coast road (part of which has already been lost to the quarrying industry).
However, since you demand an alternative from me, here are some suggestions:
Somewhere in France, preferably.
Otherwise one of the Manors with some space. Bags of flattish room at St John’s Manor, for example.
Maybe ask a petrolhead millionaire to buy somewhere like Francheville with a wall all round it and donate it to the club. Stranger things happen in Jersey. Look at the FB Fields or the IJB Playing field!
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#Rozel Aubin
“Somewhere in France preferably ” seems we are finally revealing our true colours .
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That’s right, Reggio. True colurs coming up:
I can’t abide scramble bikes, jet skis, petrol driven garden tools especially chain saws and any many other nuisances. France would be an ideal place for all these activities! I didn’t include karts, they don’t affect me that much. Not like when they were at Quennevais.
Closing the road does affect me. I drive up there two or three times a week sometimes. So do many others over the course of each day. We turn the engine off and have a bit of peace and quiet. Anyone who thinks it smart to go zapping around there with a fruity exhaust is not welcome.
I can put up with it being closed every Sunday or so because I avoid driving around at weekends like the plague. Too many people in the island. All let out of captivty at the same time!
It is not the Karts, per se, that I am concerned about. It is the take over bid. I would still object if it was used for tortoise racing and permanently taken away from the rest of us for sole use by a club.
Read the previous paragraph thoroughly and stop concentrating on trying to prove me a kart hater. That’s purely coincidental.
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sorry Rozel i have read your previous paragraph a few times and now have read your most recent post and nothing has changed my mind however i feel that karting is in exalted company in being one of the many activities that you appear to take great exception to.
However it seems that events have overtaken us both and according to Saturdays JEP , the Kart club are reconsidering their current application for Sorel.
You will almost certainly consider this a victory for common sense and natural justice etc,etc,etc, I on the other hand as an ex kart racer and Belle Vue boy is of the opinion that it is a victory for the more vocal “Nimbys” and meanspirited busybodies that inhabit this Island.
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@23
Tough!
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Reggio,
I can’t imagine how I forgot, but I accidentally left fireworks off my list.
I was rudely reminded of this last night.
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Rozel
I am definitely with you on this one !!
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@24
Thanks!
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Penelope- I do not recall at the meeting that the club has ever said they were not grateful. Being grateful does not however preclude them from asking for something else! We still,just, live in a free society where we are all able to express a view as you have done. Remember also that the club has previously consulted parishners before finalising their plans and received the thumbs up! As far as an area of natural beauty is concerned you obviously have forgotten about Ronez!!!
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2, 10
How absolutely true
This is the Parish where the incinerator should have been built.
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18 Penelope you are so correct in your very well put post…..they’d soon be squal, and it can be easily..king if the concession were removed..can’t believe their ingratitude and trying to guilt trip a result in their favour. when in essence all they now have to do is the same as the car club ,and put the stuff away afterwards.Lazy or what..?
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It is a little unfair to brand all St john parishoners as the selfish ‘nimby’ parish. I bet there would be a similar response if that meeting was held in all parishes.
The reason there is so much opposition is not because there is a majority of parishoners opposed to it, it is that people only bother to go to meetings like that if they oppose something. Thus, the ones who don’t really mind probably stayed at home which left those who really want it to happen as a minority.
It can be said that there was a majority at the parish meeting but not necessarily that there is a proportionate majority in the parish.
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I thoroughly agree with #22 Rozel Aubin
Ronez Loop is a wonderful place for the public to go for a bit of relaxation. The people who say it is not a well used area are wrong. I regularly go up there, turn the car engine off, relax and enjoy the wonderful panoramic views of the French coast and the other islands. Very rarely is there no one else there doing exactly the same.
I have sympathy for the Kart club, they are obviously in dire need of a permanent facility, but Ronez is certainly not the right place.
As a Skateboarder i know how they feel, as we had to wait 6 years and went through nearly 20 possible locations before we got the Skatepark at the Harbour (just a shame the States palmed us off with a very mediocre Park in the end, when Guernsey are getting a world class facility.)
The difference between Skateboarders and Karters, is that the Karters still have use of Ronez as a temporary track for now. Us Skaters had NOTHING for 6 years while we waited for a suitable location.
So Karters, be patient and i’m sure you will have a wonderful track within a few years time, just not at Ronez!
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Warped “spoilt brat” thinking at comment 29. Nimbys they are not. The opposition is islandwide and for good reason. This is public land, it is an area of outstanding natural beauty (as classified in the island plan) and, to be honest, the kart club shouldn’t be there at all. Apart for the incursion into this sensitive area, the fact that a generous concession might become development by stealth is something which is wholly repugnant to many people from both within and without the parish of St John.
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Penelope… fatal flaw in your argument about it being an area of outstanding natural beauty… Ronez!!!!
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Quite right, treehugger. The Quarry is an example of man made beauty.
Awesome in fact.
Comparable to natural landforms like the cirque at the head of a glacier or even the rim of a caldera, Santorini for instance.
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Treehugger @ 34; sorry, there is no fatal flaw as you allege. The area is classed as an outstanding area of natural beauty in the island plan, as my post made quite clear. Yes, Ronez perhaps should not be there. You however, seem to be suggesting that, because it is, we should allow another eyesore. The kart club already enjoys a considerable privilege when it really shouldn’t be there at all.
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Penelope. Just because it says its an area of natural beauty in the Island plan does not make it so! Take “green lanes” for example, quite a few are built up areas! Gronez is definatly a blight on the area and there are spots which are calmer and more beautiful. Therfore logically it is more suitable for the Kart club than some other spots on the North coast
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Penelope 36:I am afraid what it says in the island plan is totally irrelevant.The fact of the matter is Ronez worry aint a natural site of beauty.!!
I am a Jersey boy and I have been and driven round the loop several times and never seen a soul!!.Bit Like Queens valley lot a fuss about nothing.We flooded it and it is now a bigger recreational and walking area now then it ever was.I also remember Stuart Syvret kicking off about the extension to les Meilles Golf club saying it would ruin the area and interfere with the wildlife in the area….another thing he got wrong last time I played the course I have never seen so many variety of birds.
Come on people broaden the mind and release some of the self interest and selfishness out!
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Tree Hugger and Mr Impartial, the island plan is relevant, I am very much afraid. Please let me explain why that is so.
The Kart club has made an application to develop the site. I use the term “development” to mean the change of use and associated works. Indeed, the application as submitted states as follows:
-”GREEN ZONE, Zone of Oustanding Character
Description Change of use and alterations to form permanent go-kart track. Construct race control box. Erect fencing and gate. Various external alterations. EIA Submitted.”-
(My note, please see the heading regarding zoning, which is clearly relevant, otherwise it wouldn’t be there. See also the reference to “EIA” or Environmental Impact Assessment, which is again relevant to the sensitive zoning of the area)
When the planning minister determines an application, he is bound by law to have regard to the island plan. As you say, the island plan may or may not be flawed. Be that as it may, the zoning which is set out in the island plan is decided by the full states sitting and tends to tie the hands of the planning authority. In other words, the planning minister cannot ignore it.
It follows that the contents of the island plan is highly relevant. To argue that it is “tottally irrelant” shows a level of understanding that might lie at the root of the sense of entitlement which members of the kart club seem to display at times.
Perhaps comfort can be gained by the fact that the application has been tendered by a representative of the club who happens to be a jersey “ecrivain” or solicitor. Whether you personally choose to believe the impact of the island plan or otherwise (and it matters not either way, I am afraid), it is reassurring to note that the applicant will be fully aware of the relevance of the island plan and the fact that this hotly contested application is, one would hope, doomed to failure!
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Green lanes are not in the island plan. This the problem with this sort of development as proposed by the kart club; people who support it often don’t know what they are talking about
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Go Karting is a good healthy sport, it’s an outlet for youngsters and not so youngsters to stamp the right foot in safety, and it benefits the community by getting some aggression off the road and gives its participants experience of how to control a vehicle during slides etc, not something we want them to experiment with on the road.
This site on the North coast is ideal for such a facility. The noise from the karts won’t be as loud as Ronez blasting their rock either.
What a shame if it’s scuppered by a bunch of NIMBYs
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38 “Mr Impartial” (misname if ever there were one)
“I am afraid what it says in the island plan is totally irrelevant.”
What planet are you guys on? This is an application for planning permission??!! Of course the island plan is relevant!!? Is this hopeful ignorance or is it the two stroke fumes!?
Queen’s Valley was and is a travesty. Every time I see the beauty of the velley in “Bergerac”, I cringe and remember the awfulness of it all. It saw, among other things, national trust land taken in a way which would surely have seen the benefactor turn in his grave. They made up the law as they went along on that one!
So Ronez is on the North coast. Get over it. The fact that it is there doesn’t licence another carbuncle, even though you would undoubtedly like it to. And you’re after public land as well. It’s ours, not the club’s!
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This is a fascinating debate. On the one hand, you have an area of outstanding natural beauty and a small group which has been allowed, by concession, to use public land within that area for their own private purposes. That group now wishes to purchase the land from the public for an undisclosed, but probably, small amount of money.
On the other side of the argument, you have members of the public who would like the land to be left as it is. No-one seems to object to the club continuing to enjoy the land as a favour, even though its activities may well breach the planning law as it is.
The members of the public who wish to maintain the land in public ownership are accused by some as being spoilsports and nimbys. That itself present a further interesting argument, namely, the extent to which a concerned member of the public who enjoys the area and does not wish to see contruction on such a sensitive site may be entitled to his or her opinion. A further debate may concern why the club is, in its vociferous campaign, drawing attention to the situation and losing a degree of public goodwill. Indeed, the question of whether the club should remain on site is now debateable because, if it does, who is to say that its undoubted sense of entitlement will not increase with each further passing year?
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The point is still being missed which is that whatever it says in the island plan or any other document the site is next door to a quarry, largely unused and indeed access not being completely removed. Further more, and I am not a Kart club member, are they not also tax paying members of the general public, some of whom even have the temerity to also be St Johns parishners.
Finally I completely dissagree that the club should suffer and lose its existing facilities because it has had the “Cheek” to pipe up and try to improve its lot. Smacks of moral blackmail of the worst sort.
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PJG at 41; agreed. The kart club is there already and enjoys the concession so everybody is happy, or they should be anyway. Plenty of opportunity to practice their skills as it is. It can’t be scuppered by “nimbys” because it is already there.
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Tree Hugger at 44; it seems that your argument has shifted. First of all, you argued that the island plan zoning of this sensitive area was not relevant. Now you say that the location next to a (concealed) quarry is the real issue. You go on to cite, among other things, the possible tax paying status of the karting fraternity, along with an emotive notion of “moral blackmail”, whatever that may be.
Let us continue to look at the matter objectively. It is an outstanding area within the green zone. As such, there is, at law, a presumption against development. There is also, as you say, a quarry nearby. That quarry very probably pre-dates the existing planning laws. Some may view it as a thing of beauty, others will see it as a carbuncle. Either way, existing development within a proscribed area cannot licence further unacceptable incursion.
So far as your “moral blackmail” point might be concerned, one can only imagine that you may be under the impression that the kart club might be asked to relinquish the generous concession that it has enjoyed for the past 12 years. One is not aware that such a thing might happen, but it would seem that perhaps you know otherwise. One thing is for sure, there are probably many other private organisations within the island which would be extremely glad to have the opportunity to occupy public land for this extended period of time.
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Why is the kart club moaning if it is already there? Put up or shut up is the order of the day
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I’m a taxpayer and I fancy extending my garden. There is some public land next door. Because I am a taxpayer, I think that I am entitled to the land. if i don’t get it, I will scweem and scweem and call everybody nasty names like nimby
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Some points:
1.Have you ever seen a proper kart track:
http://www.amazonsystems.co.uk/images/ryemap.jpg
Jersey WAS one of the first place in the UK to have a permanent track but now has to use an excuse of a track which has three corners which when the club uses it all turn left. How exciting!
2. Only a section of the land is public land the rest is privately owned land.
3. As ALL other sites have already been looked at in the island where do YOU think the club should go? Crabbe and Les Landes are a NO by the way. If you have an answer to this please think long and hard about your reply!
4. We have the sea all around us why do we build swimming pools?
We have fields to run in why do we build athletics tracks?
Answer: To be good at the sport provide proper facilities and to represent the island. Going around three corners anticlockwise is not anywhere near a practice or race track but a make do for now.
5. FACT At the parish meeting most of the people who attended were in support of the club and were club supporters. Around 30 of the 118 were against the plans and 17 spoke against some who dont even live in the parish.
6. The section of GREENZONE land is only the land to the east towards the woods where the bbq area is and will be filled in to existing road level then the bank will be planted with new trees.
7. No actual contruction of any form of buildings will take place but will be a portakabin.
8. If the granite was any good that is on the site then that land would not even be there but would be a 300ft drop joined to the quarry.
9. The club is not moaning at all they are just trying to get a permanent track back after it was taken when belle vue was compulsary purchased byt the States of Jersey. Its just a planning application, no moaning just trying to improve.
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Violet Elizabeth- Quite right too it is your right to scream and scream and express your view any way you want…its called democracy. You may not get what you want but nobody has the right to stop you asking!!
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Sounds like a mess to me, Brambles. We don’t want portakabins there. And Jersey is not in the Uk. i should think most of those at the meeting were those at the club. those who shout the most are,sadly, often the most organised. The club probably brought out the “three line whip” to make sure that everyone was there to have a shouty shout. No building on public land in the green zone, we hope.
Application:
“-”GREEN ZONE, Zone of Oustanding Character
Description Change of use and alterations to form permanent go-kart track. Construct race control box. Erect fencing and gate. Various external alterations. EIA Submitted.”-
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Nice one, tree hugger, although i think that the significance of the “scweem” mispelt has escaped your notice! Democracy is a wonderful thing so I expect to see you tolerating the views of those who dare to oppose these plans (i.e.half of St John and loads of other people!) from this point on……who inded can blame the club for asking? I would if I had been onto a good thing for all these years! And just think, if they do get the land, they can hardly be blamed in years to come if they ask for further planning permission and then sell the land to a developer because karting has become “uneconomic”. Result? Instant millionaires!!! Kerching….!
But , hey, that’s democracy! let’s all sm,ile at that 
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I live in England and I have just clicked onto this forum. It is absolutely hilarious! A motor racing club wants to build on a green zone outstanding area, can this really be true? It is also unbelieveable that the government has lent this land out for so long. What on earth is going on? Over here, they would have been sent packing years ago! You must have motor racing miltants or secret developers over there because someone has organised a very aggressive campaign. Is there big bucks involved or some other hidden agenda because it looks like there might be
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Someone said:
“5. FACT At the parish meeting most of the people who attended were in support of the club and were club supporters. Around 30 of the 118 were against the plans and 17 spoke against some who dont even live in the parish.”
Really? Don’t think so. And what a funny iplication that anyone who lives outside the parish has no right to comment. Sorry, but they do!
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@ Biz JK1
ohh how some people can twist things somethings is amazing.
Not saying at all that anyone outside the parish has no right to comment just that the meeting was based on a parish meeting as per the title of this thread: St John parishioners oppose karters’ plan.
The title should then read islanders oppose karters plans.
Correct?
What are the correct facts then?
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I go there quite often but I’m only a Jerseyman, not a St.Jeannais – do I not have any say in the matter?
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I am sure that Brambles will tell us the “correct facts” as he sees them; after all, the parish hall staff can’t be wrong, can they?
perhaps he would also like to explain what he means when he said, “some who dont even live in the parish.”. if he now says, “Not saying at all that anyone outside the parish has no right to comment”, then why make the divisive comment in the first place!? portakabins look awful in an outstanding area of natural beauty; and landfill as well? No thanks!
Application:
“-”GREEN ZONE, Zone of Oustanding Character
Description Change of use and alterations to form permanent go-kart track. Construct race control box. Erect fencing and gate. Various external alterations. EIA Submitted.”-
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So just because the JEP article mentions St John does that mean that someone from St Ouen can’t comment? I don’t understand this; do journalistic headings determine which members of the public have a say on the possible depoilation of a public beauty spot or is such comment confined to those who happened to be mentioned in a given article!? I live in Grouville (in a house, not a poratakabin!). Am I allowed to express a view or would I be shouted down as well?
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No Way at 56; We don’t have any say, it seems. What an odd state of affairs. I wonder who those naughty outsiders who dared to comment were? Did the club representatives take their names? Will they be barred from driving a go-kart!?
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“but now has to use an excuse of a track which has three corners which when the club uses it all turn left. How exciting!” Indeed. Can you please keep going left until you get as far away from the site as possible?
“As ALL other sites have already been looked at in the island where do YOU think the club should go?” Dunno. Why do those who comment owe the club a living?
“We have the sea all around us why do we build swimming pools?
We have fields to run in why do we build athletics tracks?” Why indeed? This sounds like a wonderful philosophy debate. Why is the sky blue?
“No actual contruction of any form of buildings will take place but will be a portakabin.” That will be a nice sight on that beuty spot
“If the granite was any good that is on the site then that land would not even be there but would be a 300ft drop joined to the quarry.”
“If there were granite anywhere else then that anywhere else would also not even be there”. Your reasoning is that a possible eyesore is okay because the site might not have survived anyway
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Debbie The rather childish spelling of scream had not escaped my notice. I will of course accept your right to comment as long as you accept mine to dissagree…
In that respect the Kart club have given an absolute assurance that there will be no development of the land should they succeed. No doubt you will disbelieve this but there it is…
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Problem is an assurance is not binding usually. Especially if the sucessors to those presently running the club decide to push for a lucrative development which, given the value of the site, could happen. Did the kart club sign some form of contract (that would be something but even there it may have “holes” which could be exploited later)
Best left as it is with the present generous concession. BTW, I noticed the “scweem” spelling as well. it is not just childish, it is something to do with a particular television character, as I recall.
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Does this mean that only those kart club members who live in St John were allowed to support the proposal?
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Application:
“-”GREEN ZONE, Zone of Oustanding Character
Description Change of use and alterations to form permanent go-kart track. Construct race control box. Erect fencing and gate. Various external alterations. EIA Submitted.”-
And, now we are told, portakabins and land fill. Land fill usually involves demolition waste.
Lovely.
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Landfill is worrying, I have to say. We don’t want another Trinity dump saga. Shame the club can’t just stay there and enjoy themselves with things as they are; this application is creepy and we don’t know what could happen in the future, particularly bearing in mind the value of the site and the fact that a change of use will open the door to goodness knows what. It’s a multi-million pound site, but the club won’t be paying that of course
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Application:
“-”GREEN ZONE, Zone of Oustanding Character
Description Change of use and alterations to form permanent go-kart track. Construct race control box. Erect fencing and gate. Various external alterations. EIA Submitted.”-
And, if the club’s bid to take over this public land and get a change of use is successful, we might see this in years to come:
Description: demolish permanent go-kart track. Construct 18 houses with balconies and sea-facing terraces. Erect high fencing and electric gates. Underground car parking. Various landscaping and external alterations.
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Let us continue once again to look at the matter objectively. It is an outstanding area within the green zone. As such, there is, at law, a presumption against development. There is also, as you say, a quarry nearby. That quarry very probably pre-dates the existing planning laws. Some may view it as a thing of beauty, others will see it as a carbuncle. Either way, existing development within a proscribed area cannot licence further unacceptable incursion.
So far as any “moral blackmail” point might be concerned, one can only imagine that you may be under the impression that the kart club might be asked to relinquish the generous concession that it has enjoyed for the past 12 years. One is not aware that such a thing might happen, but it would seem that perhaps you know otherwise. One thing is for sure, there are probably many other private organisations within the island which would be extremely glad to have the opportunity to occupy public land for this extended period of time.
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I just hope this doesn’t happen. It sounds absolutely awful!
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Landfill………portakabins………what else will be pulled out of the hat? At least this proves the undoubted value of this forum; certain commentators,angry in their support of the club, are revealing all sorts of interesting but extremely worrying things about this application. For goodness sake, let the club enjoy the site as they do but please, no to this builiding site
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‘And, if the club’s bid to take over this public land and get a change of use is successful, we might see this in years to come:’
Club house with bar, manager’s house, staff flats, workshops, retail plaza, test track, beginners track, additional parking…
Most of these would have to be built on adjacent land annexed using established precedent. The Manager’s house, needless to say, would be on the highest point with the best view ready for the inevitable outgrowth of the site leading to reluctant sale to a developer(cut to Hot-wire’s prophecy above).
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The kind of thing outlined at 66 and 70 above has happened before and could happen again on this beauty spot of outstanding green zone. Please, le’t just leave things as they are. This is a multimillion pound site which the club won’t be paying that amount for. The temptation to “reluctantl” sell the site to a developer and years to come and become instant millionaires will be hard to resist. It’s our land and the club is allowed to borrow it under strict supervision. let’s keep it that way.
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