The bullies in our workplaces
Tuesday 14th December 2010, 2:59PM GMT.
Consultant psychologist Bryn Williams
BULLYING is a significant problem in Jersey workplaces, according to the consultant psychologist behind a new survey examining relationships in many areas of the community.
Dr Bryn Williams’ research found that 40 per cent of the 830 people who filled in a questionnaire said that they had been bullied during the past 12 months.
Of those, almost a third said they had been bullied between two and five times, and in 70 per cent of cases, the bully was a colleague or boss at work. Some said that they had quit their jobs because of it.
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Define bullying. At school, there are only usually 1 or 2 children in a class of 20-30 who are the lead instigators of bullying, how come when we are adults and get to the workplace apparently half of the people are bullying the other half! (which is what 40% of people being bullied by others actually means when you think about it). I think this statistic highlights what I have aslways suspected – that there are a minority of adults who are being genuinely victimised in the workplace by someone mean and vindictive (who was probably the class bully once upon a time) and then there are a large swathe of people complaining of being “bullied” when what they mean is they have had a disagreement with someone at work and can’t find a way to resolve it. No wonder we all find it impossible to tell someone that they need to grow up and try to get on with people better when their first complaint is “I’m being bullied”. We daren’t tell someone how it really is when they use this excuse and we are in fear of being branded un-PC.
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This is a daily occurance in our office, there is one lady who bullies her team mercilessly. The boss knows about it and does nothing as he is friendly with the lady.
Others are bullied into working through lunch breaks and working late, I’ve seen people managed out for not complying with his requests. All the workplace legislation in the world can’t stop a boss bullying, if you report him he makes life hell.
I don’t think people have any idea what goes on.
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830 people claim to be bullied, but I wonder how many people actually know what the term bullying means.
Bullying is a form of abuse where a person/persons persistently and repeatedly over a period of time targets an individual who is weaker and vulnerable, usually to gain power. This could be physically, verbally or emotionally.
Interesting to see that a third of people state that they had been bullied between 2 or 5 times over 12 months.
Your boss telling you once that you haven’t done a great job and you need to pull your socks up, and then reminding you again 6 months later is not bullying!
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Well there’s surprise as if we didn’t know and yet you take it to your HR department and you end up loosing your job…so it’s a win situation….between bullying and favouritism which is worse? I would put both in the same category as I have been and my friends have been in this situation and we have lost of our jobs but the company comes up with some rubbish story….about with the current climate we are unable to keep you on at your role as there isn’t much on.. or else you are forced to resign…it’s a no win situation….
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A group of us reported bullying to our bosses (states of jersey) to which they interviewed the people concerned but did nothing about it but gave one a job upgrade. so not worth saying anything because all you get is hell
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#2. Dickie Turn
Shut up and get on with your work!
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Stuart Syvret a prime example of being bullied by his peers, difference being he has the courage to stand up to them.
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agree with 2.
very difficult to do anything about bullies without suffering the consequences, but everyone sticks together the bosses would have no choice but to sack or reprimand the bully! the secret is teamwork.
Some States departments have been the worst offenders, SOJP in particular, difficult to deal with when one of the some of the biggest bullies were at the top of the ladder.
Stay strong and don’t suffer in silence.
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#1 ritchie “how come when we are adults and get to the workplace apparently half of the people are bullying the other half! (which is what 40% of people being bullied by others actually means when you think about it)”
’40% of people being bullied at work’ doesn’t mean that half of the people are bullying the other half. It means that, in an average workplace, one or more people is/are bullying nearly half of their colleagues. That’s what it actually means, whether the bullying takes place at school or at work (when you think about it).
The statistic doesn’t sound at all surprising to me, and certainly accurately reflects the situation in the States Department where I used to work.
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Bullying is rife in the finance workplace. Seen it with my own eyes. The women are lethal for it more so than the men. JACS must be busy!
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My wife was bullied out of her job at a non-UK subsidiary bank shortly after informing her boss that she was pregnant. The HR department and Senior Management sided with the bully (who has bullied other people out of their jobs previously at the same company) and terminated my wife’s employment contract after she stood up to the bully by taking legal advice and making a formal grievance against him.
Given that it takes almost 6 months to get an employment tribunal hearing in Jersey and they are unable to award costs to the employee it makes it very difficult for anyone (particularly a pregnant woman) to take a large bank (with unlimited resources) to the Jersey Employment Tribunal. It is also very difficult to find a decent lawyer who is not conflicted or who is prepared to represent an employee in such a dispute as most will only act for the Employer.
Sadly, until they change the law and bring it fully in line with the UK, this practice will continue in some offices.
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One reason I left the finance industry was the bulling. We were told we were to be in 15 minutes early to log on and not leave until 15 minutes after 5.00. When I asked were this was stipulate within the staff hand book I was told it didn’t need to be. Needless to say I decided that the company wasn’t going to get an extra 2.5 hrs a week unpaid O/T out of me.
In another case, a senior female manager propositioned one of my female juniors, when her advances were rebuffed she tried to make the junior’s life difficult. I took it up with management and HR who all acted like ostriches.
I decided it was time to move on and get out of the place.
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Who’s paying the Consultant psychologist (Bryn Williams) and what is the hidden agenda behind both the Consultant and those who employed him to tell them exactly what they want to hear? 1. Create a problem. 2. Wait for the reaction. 3. Then offer a solution that contains the hidden agenda! This is nothing new. It’s the way Progressives have always operated. As for Bullying? Such a convenient excuse for losers who are desperately in need of someone to blame for their own weak kneed failures in life.
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Big Bean quite right the odd comment from the boss is fair enough but when it becomes consistant then this is a different issue. When someone is being picked on because the manager doesn’t like them then the manager needs to be disciplined.
It is totally wrong when one person is picked on, even when they are doing more than another person next to them, and are causing no problems. Later on you find out why. The slacker is the manager’s bed partner. I kid you not I have witnessed this very event in one place I worked at.
The problem is no company likes to admit to bullying, especially from the management, as it would mean they would be admitting they had failed in their duty of care to their employee. This would also leave them open to be taken to court etc, not the best PR for a company is it? Better to keep the boss and get rid of the worker appears to be the mantra from what I have seen.
I find it amazing when there is a high turn over of workers in a specific department and no one in higher management has the sense to enquire as to why this is. I myself would be speaking to these disgruntled employees so as to ascertain what the real reason is. If there were lots of complaints about a certain person then I would be sending them on their way.
As per school what happens to the bullies? Do they disappear into the ether? No of cause not, many end up as bosses due to their ability to ruthlessly control others.
It is about time that there was employment leglislation brought in to take care of this, companies need to be shown that bullying will not be tolerated. There should be sanctions in place to penalise any company who has failed in its duty of care. Not like at present.
What about having a bully league so that people could see what was what? This would soon pull companies into line as a bad reputation would want to be avoided at all costs.
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#1 It says “had been bullied”, one person can bully a number of people at different times. You have read it incorrectly.
The people who think this is all made up obviously haven’t actually been bullied. I was once offered a job by the (non-operational) Executive Committee of a professional body. I only met my staff on my first day at work. Well I say “met” but they didn’t like having a new boss, especially not a younger, female one and so they made the decision not to acknowledge the existence of the new boss, even going as far as to hide critical pieces of company information to prevent me doing my job. Turned out one of them had been turned down for the position. Quelle surprise!
I was completely ostracised in another workplace when a popular member of staff sexually harassed me. Stupid thing is, I gave him the chance to come back into work, behave like a normal human being and, that being the case, I would let it go as ‘one of those things’, he went to my boss and volunteered the whole story, including his guilt! Still, the girls that fancied him decided I was to blame.
The workplace is full of idiot, losers who are more concerned with one-upmanship than getting their job done. In fact, adults are worse than children, at least children are immature and have an excuse for their jealousy (which is usually what bullying comes down to).
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13 The Jersey Bull “1. Create a problem. 2. Wait for the reaction. 3. Then offer a solution that contains the hidden agenda! This is nothing new. It’s the way Progressives have always operated. As for Bullying? Such a convenient excuse for losers who are desperately in need of someone to blame for their own weak kneed failures in life.”
Actually: 1. Ignore the problem. 2. Make life even more uncomfortable for anyone who dares complain. 3. Tell people you have an ‘inclusive’ management style, with an ‘open-door policy’. It’s the way poor managers have always operated. Bullying, and turning a blind eye to bullying? Such a convenient approach for losers who are desperately in need of someone to blame for their own weak-kneed failures in life.
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#7.noah
“Stuart Syvret a prime example of being bullied by his peers, difference being he has the courage to stand up to them.”
Strange that the aspergic ex senator is surely a prime example of a bully.Read his blog and take note of the threats that he levels against all, whom differ from his view.
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Bullying is rife in the finance industry….I have witnessed it many times first hand and whenever I can I will try to stand up for the victim.
However, HR are well drilled in trying to turn the tables and it would appear that the Code of Conduct and work “values” are not worth the paper they are written on in most cases.
There is clearly a self-protection situation going on with senior management/HR who will always defend their kind no matter how bad and unprofessional their behaviour is.
You would be shocked at some of the behaviour I have witnessed from senior management.
Jersey Bull,
Not all bullying is claimed by those who are weak……there are those who are (or were) strong but have been worn down over time and simply decided enough is enough.
How would you like your daily working life to be made a misery by someone who simply has nothing better to do?
It is stressful enough these days to go to work and do a good job let alone dealing with some immature and insecure pleb whose only pleasure is to make the lives of others a misery!!
I would wager that in most cases the bully is not even a very good worker themselves and perhaps managed to “fall into” their position by chance or luck……..or bullying!
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Leah
I totally agree. I am in the middle of a similar predicament…where I got the job on experience and merit and somebody was rejected simply because they were not good enough.
This person is making my life a misery and I am currently seeking legal advice. One person I know of has already been “released” because of this troublemaker and even though they, themselves have been caught in the recent past slandering and bullying others, nothing has been done about it!
Sorry to say, but it happens to be a female and in my experience they tend to be the worst offenders.
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well said Jerry
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Be careful what you say on here in response to other comments. Could be deemed as bullying and harassment or is it just banter? Its a very fine line.
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ref all above
BULLYS are cowards ive always worked in a diffrent area building sites and to be honast with you Bullys are rare on them mayby od 1 thats it but my partner worked in this area and heard of this happening.
its a hard thing to cope with as you carnt showt or ball at them .
wheres in my younger days if there was a problem like this on building sites theres always a fight punch up and to be honast with you it always sorted it out and if you give him a good kicking he had more respect for you .
you can always beat a bully not physical but bullys are cowards from the start ive seen once you confrunct they will wet theyr pants
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Who do you go to when your HR manager can not / will not deal with a manager who is continually harasses all her staff under her, lashes out verbally for no reason if you should be in the office on your own at the beginning of or end of day when no one else is there to witness it – to the point they are fearful of reprisals should they say anything to HR, where the HR’s manger is her partner?
This is the problem we have experienced in our office and watched in horror when one of our colleagues went though the “chain of command” and was hounded to the point by this manager that they were signed off by a doctor and then penalised by HR for doing so.
All of us want to complain but can’t, who do we turn to?
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‘This is a daily occurance in our office, there is one lady who bullies her team mercilessly. The boss knows about it and does nothing as he is friendly with the lady.’
‘Who do you go to when your HR manager can not / will not deal with a manager who is continually harasses all her staff under her, lashes out verbally for no reason…’
It’s a great life, getting paid to carry on like this!
No wonder some people enjoy going to work.
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I read a leaflet on bullying a few years ago. I can’t remember whether it was a UK or Jersey one. It encouraged the reporting of bullying in the workplace & advised that if you feel like you are being bullied you most probably are!
Absolute nonsense.
Somewhere, someone will be justifying their job trying to wrap us all in cotten wool & ensuring we are all PC.
If I tell an employee not to be late for work again otherwise I will cut his wage accordingly, how can that be bullying?
The employee will undoubtedly report it as bullying.
People tend to take a lot more notice of a big policeman than a small policeman or woman. Is this because they are intimidated or do they feel bullied?
It IS life I’m afraid.
Am I in the minority here? Am I missing something?
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POSH – If you all want to complain then do it collectively. Its very easy to deal with one complainant (as per the person you mentioned), but when a number of employees raise a grievance it should force the employer to deal with the problem properly.
Jon @ #12 – Being told to be at your desks on time and not to leave on the dot is not bullying… be grateful you were only expected to put in an extra half an hour a day! jeez – in most jobs, you stay until you’re done for the day and you don’t get O/T! You need to get real! I suspect with people like you out there, these statistics should be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Class 21 – Be careful what you say on here in response to other comments. Could be deemed as bullying and harassment or is it just banter? Its a very fine line.
Clearly you have never been subject to bullying, or worse you are a bully who thinks he’s only having a bit of fun. Let me elaborate on my earlier comment about the lady bully in my original post. She sets impossible objectives for her 2 male team members. They cannot achieve anything above an average appraisal no matter what they do. This would suggest poor management to a boss who cared but hers does not. She routinely interrups phone calls to shout her opinion if contrary to that stated by the person making the call. She intentionally withholds necessary information on processes and procedures making it impossible for her staff to do their jobs.
She genuinely believes her opinion is fact and aggressively opposes anyone who believes otherwise. This happens every day, day in day out, nothing is ever done about it and if any senior staff from outside the department are present she behaves in a completely civilised manner until they have left. This is NOT a bit of harmless banter, it makes people’s lives a misery and makes a mockery of the bank’s dignity at work policy.
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26. Jonty,
I completely disagree.
When you join a company you sign a contract which stipulates the hours you work i.e. if 9 to 5 you are contractually obliged to work those hours only, give or take the odd 5 / 10 mins here and there.
The recession doesn’t give your employer the right to require an extra 30 minutes from you each day unpaid, without consulting you first. So in essence it is a form of bullying if your employer enforces the extra hours on you, because often enough you risk losing your job if you object. Where does it end? An extra 2 / 3 hours per day. We’re not slaves anymore!
A contract is a contract and in any other format if the contract is breached there are repercussions. Perhaps you should be known as ‘shine yer shoes sir’?
Bullying is greater in Jersey because often if you complain you are known as a trouble maker and thus you suffer trying to find other work within the same sector. Because a lot of people enter the office world straight from school they carry on the same mentality of school and continue to bully or take part in bullying.
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yes there is a lot of bullying going on just take me for instance a good few years ago i was the inocent vitim of a traffic accident and after partialy recovering and being forced back to work because they stooped paying my wages i was verbly abused on a daily basis so much so that no matter what i tried to do it was never enough or up to standard i was made to feel like a piece of rubbish with constant what shoulod i do with you and swaering and made to feel so bad in myself that i at tiomes felt suicidely the person in cherge wrote letters and verbly informed that i should not be working and that they should dismess me
when i did get enough courage to report him
they just said to me that they will look into it and persade me that it would not be in good interst for the dept to publise this matter
after that it just went from very bad to worse so much so that even when i saw him in the street when not at work i would try to get away from him as fast as i could.
in the end i just couldnt take it any more and walked out with out saying anyting and have left the island it still brings me out in panick attact now writeing this.
i could go on sop much more about the way i was treated and bulled
so please those out there who are being bullied
try to be brave and go to citacen advice beaureau and ask them for help
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I often find that people who profess to have an “open door policy” are in fact the opposite. Some managers etc like to pretend to be approachable to cover their backsides etc but the reality is something else altogether.
the problem can only get worse with the spate of redundancies, a large number of which are disguised with so-called compromise agreements which the employee (the vulnerable or impecunious ones are often picked for this) is often bullied into signing.
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My view at 25; yes!
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*25 myview
“If I tell an employee not to be late for work again otherwise I will cut his wage accordingly, how can that be bullying?”
Er, have you thought to ask the employee why he/she is constantly late.
Perhaps the only transport they can get makes them late.
Perhaps child care is a problem.
Perhaps they have domestic issues.
Perhaps maybe a lot of other reasonable excuses where you can use your skills as a manager to help them through the situation before stampeding straight for the pay cut and making them more resentful than they probably already are.
Sounds like you’do well in the higher Police ranks.
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How predictable and ironic that some people are accusing the bullied people of being weak. Don’t you realise that it’s the bullies who are the weak and insecure ones?
In every place I’ve worked in the Finance industry in Jersey I’ve seen bullying at work. It’s rife. In my experience it normally occurs with people (like me) who refuse to join the brown-nosing infrastructure. It’s mind-boggling how some people have made it to senior positions within Finance without having any discernable talent or knowledge. It’s a combination of sucking up to the right people and undermining the other people that seems to be the winning formula for success.
For those people out there who either are lucky enough to have not experienced this environment or who don’t work in an office, you probably think that people who complain about bullying are making mountains out of mole hills. I realise that in everyday life we come across certain insecure, inconsiderate people and we deal with these instances by venting our frustrations either at, or about these people. The difference is, you can do this and then move on, which you can’t do in an office. If you’re spending 8-9 hours a day with people who have nothing better to do than try and undermine and criticise you, it has the effect of Chinese water torture. It chips away and chips away until even the most resolute people are liable to lose the plot.
I have had to resign from a couple of companies because I won’t stand for anybody being bullied. Unfortunately I appear to be in the minority, as when most people see this kind of thing going on they either join in or pretend it’s not happening. When I’ve raised the issue I have then become ostracised myself, as Management are very quick to close ranks and protect themselves. HR Departments are a waste of time, as they work for the company’s interests, not the employee’s (remember this when thinking about raising a complaint).
If anybody is being victimised, my advice is to go to an Employment Lawyer. JACS are okay, but they won’t give you a definitive opinion about anything and will normally recommend the easy solution (ie leave). An Employment Lawyer costs must less than you would think and they will give you excellent advice. Document everything that anybody does or says and you will be amazed at how you probably have a great case for constructive dismissal. I realise that this is a route that people will want to avoid, but if enough people start taking this route, Companies and Management will realise that they can’t continue to treat people like dirt.
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CLV things liking bullying from incompete management are just another reason why work is rubbish for the vast majority. Most are in economic slavery and those in charge know this and need to keep people in their place by all means possible.
JOB= Just Over Broke which is where most are kept to fuel the consumerism/capitalistic system going and making a select few rich on the backs of others hard work. Managers are just a function of this system.
They get rewarded for getting as much as possible from people by whatever method possible, even if it means driving people to the wall then dumping them when they can no longer perform at the required level.
Poor mental health is the end result from all this treadmill working and in Jersey it is becoming epidemic for this illness.
Unfortunately due to poor employment laws and regulations companies can get away with causing nervous breakdowns and can then dump these people onto the state to look after. It is about time employers were held accountable for their actions as far as I am concerned.
As per working longer hours this is not mandatory and employers shouldn’t be black mailing people to do over and above their required hours without paying them. I view this as theft of a worker’s time and private life.
Job descriptions are there for a reason and should be abidded by by both parties. It states what is required for a set wage and both parties have agreed to it of free will. Would an employer put up with a worker doing an hour or two less work everyday? Of cause not so they shouldn’t force their workers to do it either.
Workers need to get together and demand change. Only by group action will change for the better be achieved in the short term. Unfortunately rule by division is used by those in charge to keep the masses under their thumb.
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Bob I wouldn’t bother with JACS. From what I have seen they are company facing and aren’t interested in sorting out problems.
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Dickie Tum
Maybe you should be working rather than posting comments on here at 3:24pm.
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31 S2
Sorry but I don’t like that attitude I’ll be reporting you for bullying!!
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Those who can, do.
Those who can’t, bully!
By criticizing and hounding others, the bullies are simply trying to cover their own poor performance.
Unsubstantiated criticism is an admission (by the bullies) of their own incompetence. Therefore, companies would do well to look into “all” accusations of bullying. Not only because bullies are “under achievers” but also because these people hinder the progress of the “talented”…and thus lower staff performance and productivity.
And, as every good HR knows, the talented make contributions to a company’s profitability that go way beyond their salary costs.
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I agree with a majority of what 32 has said other than the hr bit.. as I am quite fortunate to work with decent folk after working in some really nasty environments.. there will always be an indifference of opinion on occasion, and it is normally adult to deal with this in an emotionally mature way, nobody is perfect.
If you are fortunate enough to work with honest people (which I am for the only other occasion in my time in offices that being 16 years) then you can talk through and understand people better if they have a mature and open mind and work through differences and have mutual respect for others, we are not all the same.
Have seen it in the workplace on numerous occasions have suffered it myself ( it is horrid.. nothing to do with being weak to the complete idiots who may think that, I would eat you for breakfast if you tried that old chestnut with me) and think most people need to just grow up and stop carrying on like they were in a playground, so what if someone is a bit different to you, good they may be a bit more switched on in other ways than yours and if finance and states departments are anything to go by then that says it all really ignorance really is not bliss..it makes a complete mess and waste of money. People gossiping and stirring it should be penalised if they have time to do that then they arent doing their job!!
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Never trust HR. They are management stooges. A non-profession which piggy-backs off the failure of modern business people to know how to act properly
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#32 and 37, so true.
To add to that, bullies aren’t JUST weak, they are usually bullying you because they are less capable than you and they feel inferior. If they are more senior than you then they will also feel threatened that you will show them up.
#19 No need to apologise, I have also found it to be predominantly females, although the two men I have been superior to have bullied me (they were subservient at home so needed somewhere to be the master), utterly pathetic sad old men! Hope your situation improves. I did manage to gather enough evidence to fire the two women, and although I decided to leave anyway an ally on the Exec Committee got rid of the final perpetrator soon after
Hopefully you will at some point get a boss with a backbone that takes control of the situation. In the meantime keep a diary, keep it up to date, and don’t miss a trick! You never know when having a record of the bullying will come in useful.
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myview
Posted December 15, 2010 at 5:20 pm
31 S2
“Sorry but I don’t like that attitude I’ll be reporting you for bullying!!”
Of course, but you could always try to improve your mangerial capabilities by talking with peers and superiors as well as getting feedback from your staff. Instead of running to Sir..
Your thought processes seem to be one dimensional (twice). There is help out there
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#5
well to be perfectly honest with u, having also worked for the states and been a witness to a group of ppl claiming to be bullied, when in FACT there was no bulling and from what I saw the ‘bullied group’ made completely false claims which could have cost the ‘bully’ their jobs!
its ridiculous, most of these cases I would say were ppl not liking being told what to do!
I do have sympathy for those who really are bullied and hope they have help and support… but I think claims need to be investigated thoroughly before drastic measures are taken!!!
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Leah Holmes’ advice – “don’t miss a trick” – and her reference to an “ally” give her game away somewhat. Attitudes such as hers, to cause mayhem for anyone she doesn’t like and to use internal politics to get her way, cause tremendous friction in the workplace and undermine the attempts by all to support genuine victims of bullying. Well done Leah for getting so many people fired just before you left. Like an arsonist walking away from a fire started at their own hands.
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Leah Holmes # 40 hit the nail on the head when she said,”To add to that, bullies aren’t JUST weak, they are usually bullying you because they are less capable than you and they feel inferior. If they are more senior than you then they will also feel threatened that you will show them up.”
Kim # 39 is also right in her assessment of the H.R. role, which has done nothing to improve realtionships between the employer and employee. This is because they have little knowledge of what the job at the coal face, having never perforemd in that role themselves.
When I stated in full time employment over 43 years ago, H.R. was unheard of. Everything was done by supervisors or managers, who though not always perfect, had more of an idea what various tasks entailed. This meant they didn’t fit square pegs in round holes as often occurs now. Much of this is done nowadays for the sake of politicial correctness, with little regard for a person’s suitablity for the post.
In the past five years I discovered one of my managers had added a qualification on his CV that he wasn’t entitled to. I contacted the Institute who awarded the qualification involved and learnt he couldn’t possibly have the annotation he put after his name, as he wasn’t a graduate. Surprisingly the Institute e-mailed me and verified this particular Walter Mitty character did not hold the qualification in question – I thought they wouldn’t do this due to Data Protection, but they did.
When I got fed up with this inept nincompoop’s bullying, I reported the false CV via the whistleblowing scheme. My senior managers substantiated my claim, but the manager concerned received no sanction whatsoever and is still in post. Thankfully I am now based at another office and rarely seen him, yet hear about the problems he causes to my colleagues, who also complain about him. For a while this left me totally disillusioned, but after seeing the Occupational Health Adviser, I was taught to treat the situation as a joke which of course it is.
Poor management – including bullying – leads to a reduction in productivity and to poor morale. It is only personal pride that motivates me to try and perform well – management has little to do with it.
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#40 “I have also found it to be predominantly females, although the two men I have been superior to have bullied me (they were subservient at home so needed somewhere to be the master), utterly pathetic sad old men! Hope your situation improves. I did manage to gather enough evidence to fire the two women, and although I decided to leave anyway an ally on the Exec Committee got rid of the final perpetrator soon after”
Hmm, sounds as if you’re right – the worst ones may well be females.
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#42 BS, that’s the problem really in a nutshell. It’s a similar situation to when people who are just having a crappy day claim to be ‘depressed’.
Those that have no understanding of what bullying really is and use the term lightly make it so much harder for those that are actually being bullied! Of course a good boss or HR department should be asking the right questions to ascertain who has just been told to do their job and who is actually being bullied.
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If bullies were always weak, they wouldn’t be much of a problem. However, one does come across people with strength, but no integrity about how they apply it. They are the really scary ones. If you don’t believe me, you have just led a sheltered life, that you should be grateful for.
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Leah, you don’t sound like a terribly nice person at all.
You “gathered” evidence to get people fired.
Then left the company.
Then used an inside source to continue your vendetta even though you had moved somewhere else.
Sounds like the work of a bit of a snitch with a bullying streak themselves.
Does this go back to the boyfriend issues that we brought up the other week?
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Maybe the bullies are annoyed at the people they work with….maybe they’re lazy or annoying.
Judging situations we know nothing about is the highest form of foolishness I can think of.
Also you have to accept the fact that people might not be able to tell the difference between bullying and banter or perhaps not understand the difference.
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Phillip Ozouf is one of the Prime Bullies in the States! The Way he treats some of the people who work for and with him, is no short of a disgrace! I can vouch for this first hand.
He and Le Sueur also bully 90000 of us islanders too! Get rid of the rubbish!
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Certain management styles can be demanding and unfriendly but that should not be mistaken with bullying. Equally, in Leah Holmes situation, a failure to earn the respect and support of subordinates is your failure not theirs. I wonder whether their reaction to you was not bullying but a response to an aloof and arrogant management style. I doubt your decision to “gather evidence” went unnoticed by the staff and only increased the level of alienation and lack of respect you experienced.
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Respect and support from subordinates only comes if there is a proper management structure in place. In many offices, weak management leads to a free for all where people will just take the mickey, say things aren’t their job etc. Although personal qualities have something to do with it, subordinates will not-co-operate with more senior members if they know that they can get away with it. This is the modern style of office. Some of the worst offenders are temps, who seem to think that the world owes them a living.
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Leah Holmes,
I am so glad I didn’t have to work with you. I am sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when you left the workplace. You seem to know everything about everything. In fact this should be known as “Leah says”, not “You say” as you seem to have an opinion on every subject, and your opinion is the only one that matters.
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#50 Yankeedoodle, hate to burst your bubble, but if people haven’t met you and don’t utter a word from the minute you walk through the door it is quite clearly THEIR problem. Needless to say the Exec Committee backed me for that very reason. Of course you make no mention of the fact that I managed to get my job done and get the idiots fired for their childish and jealous behaviour
The organisation didn’t suffer, in fact I managed to remove 3 of their long-term problems, isn’t that the point of an employee?
You clearly have no idea of just what some workplaces are actually like. Maybe you are one of those that thinks adults in the workplace can be trusted to behave like adults, in which case you would be incredibly wrong. When it comes to the workplace childishness, pettiness, jealousy and unnecessary competitiveness are rife.
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#47 You clearly aren’t aware of the duties of a boss. If people breach the company rules consistently and intentionally then they need to be fired, to fire them you have to gather evidence, companies cannot just fire people at will, funnily enough the law is on the side of the employee and so evidence must be collated. How you have failed to grasp this essential bit of knowledge is beyond me, most employees know of this and play on it. And the organisation had, it transpired, wanted these people gone for a long time, I did their dirty work for them (which is why I left, I have no respect for employers who bring someone into a position like that without being honest about it).
And regardless of what you think I am a nice person, having opinions that differ from the majority doesn’t make you unkind or arrogant, it just makes you less of a sheep, it’s how you treat people that matters. If you don’t know this then you are probably quite a hideous person. Words mean very little, actions are all, I treat people the way I wish to be treated. You can’t seriously think you know people from comments on a forum
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#47 Missed the boyfriend bit, why are you so hung up on boyfriends? I’m good friends still with the few I had prior to my long-term relationship. People that don’t stay friends with exes were either badly treated or are probably the same petty, jealous types that cause problems within the workplace.
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For those of you who have never been in a position of dealing with a bully (probably because it’s less hassle for you to turn a blind eye instead)or actually being bullied yourselves, you may understand that “gathering evidence” is as much to protect yourself as it is to prove any wrongdoing…….you’d be surprised at how easy the tables are turned by HR when someone complains and the complainant ends up having to defend themselves instead!
I have been involved in both ends of the complaint process where I have had to “gather evidence” to prove one team members complaint against another….and I have been in the position where I have had to prove disgraceful behaviour against me.
I can assure you the process if not taken lightly and it often involves a LOT of work gathering information and keeping an eye on situations….this clearly takes up a lot of time and is very stressful….obviously this makes the person(s) less productive in the meantime too.
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Jerry at 46;
“I have also found it to be predominantly females, although the two men I have been superior to have bullied me…..”.
Really, only two people? I thought that you thought that you are superior to everyone (rotfl)
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27. If you are contracted to work from 9 til 5 that means work. Not come in at 9 remove street clothes, make cup of coffee, catch up on last nights events with colleagues and then start work. Nor does it mean stop work at 4.45 to take cup to kitchen, clear desk and get street clothes on ready to be out the door at 5. This is why it is quite normal to arrive at work a few minutes early and leave a few minutes later than start and finish times.
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I got sacked from a part-time job when I was 18. I was suffering the normal teenage problem of bad skin at the time, and my boss saw it as an opportunity to humiliate me in front of all the other workers. One day, I just snapped. I grabbed him by the shirt and headbutted him, breaking his nose. I’m not suggesting violence is the answer, but nothing in life has given me greater pleasure than that. A few years later, I bumped into him in a pub & he clearly respected me for standing up to him
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Having read through many of the above submissions it seems obvious that bullying is a substantial problem in the work place. I am convinced that the reason for this in many cases is weak managers and poor management systems.
I have seen fellow workers being set targets and deadlines, which they repeatedly fail to achieve with no consequences whatsoever. Then in 2009, I was asked to write a policy and a line manager was supposed to be supervising me in completing this. I received no supervision at all and completed the job in December last year. I had no feedback from my senior management on the draft policy until August 2010.
In the meantime several factors have changed, so that I have recommended that there is consultation with stakeholders to attempt to achieve some consensus. I have sought the views of my senior management (I sent an e-mail on the 3rd December) then a 10 days later one of my senior managers asked me when could he expect to see the final policy? He hadn’t even considered my suggestion that there needed to be consultation with interested parties.
I believe the senior manager involved attended the ‘Attila the Hun’ or ‘Genghis Khan’ School of Management. He expects to ram ideas down people’s throats, without considering what impact they’ll have on staff, or the public.
As a retired copper, I tend to stand up for myself but others just buckle under this bullying from management. They keep quiet as they are worried about losing their job at a time when employment opportunites are few and far between.
I was once told on a course run by the States, with trainers from the Civil Service College. They discussed how a sailing ship was making it’s way up the English Channel, when the lowest ranking sailor on the vessel told his senior officers that he knew the area well and that they were heading towards a hidden reef. His Captain and First Lieutenant, knowing the sailor was the lowest rank amongst their crew, ignored his advice, with the result that the ship ran aground. That’s what happens when managers – and politicians – don’t listen. Showing a lack of respect for your staff (crew) is a from of bullying.
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I’m not necessarily condoning this in all situations!
I was confronted once by a ‘superior’who took a disliking to me. I ignored his insults, I kept my head down and i made sure i was productive and fulfilled my role to the letter. He continued to persistantly demean and insult me. I Continued to laugh it off even occasionally offering him a cuddle, the name of a good councellor, and on one occasion I asked if Prep H would resolve his grieviance. When he got ‘up in my face’ I’d wait till he’d finished his rant and then with dead pan expression I’d politely offer him a mint, Smile and walk away.
Truth is he was probably after a reaction repeatedly giving them one they aren’t happy with stresses them out more than they are able to stress you out.
My advice don’t get drawn in, laugh in their face and let them know how pathetic you think they are (fight fire with Ice).
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#57 That’s the problem with the written word, you attach your own tone to it, not that of the author. I’ve said on here plenty of times I genuinely consider all people equal. The previous comment was quite clearly in context of a work hierarchy
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Whatever happened to Personnel Managers?
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Nice idea at 62, but probably not the best way to go about things with a so called “superior”.
If he does have mental issues or piles (!), the reference to counsellors and haemorrhoid creams (hopefully not at the same time) could be taken as bullying in itself and the mention of a cuddle could be sexual harassment. Personally, I am all in favour of some of the people with whom I have worked being given some pile cream, although I am not sure to which orifice one would administer the ointment. I have worked with many people where it is very difficult to discern which is which, given the intelligence of what they say. HR can be among the worst, as many people will know.
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Having to work is an imposition on a life as it is,to be miserable or afraid while doing it is not acceptable,you are creating wealth for your boss unless you are in a public funded dept..so you are an asset,good H.R. managers know this.you may also have been invested in via training and courses,any boss is indeed foolish to squander or allow abuse of a profit making asset,.pertinent questions serve better than outbursts or quitting..ask the boss if he knows bullying is happening,he may not,ask if he is o.k. with you being abused,if not.. remedial action should follow if you are met with indifference….the lazy response, then ask if he will still be o.k. with it when you take it to JACS and then to your lawyers..it is amazing how many will “Wake up” when met with a measured stance..you can get legal aid for such an event through the Batonnier’s office..
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Normally Bullies have low self esteem however its the nature of the beast to dominate our fellow man.
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I left a full time job at the beginning of the year due to problems in the office with bullying, yes I would agree once you report the bullying to a more senior member of staff, also HR, it is correct that once you do that they say they take those things seriously well in fact they don’t, you are then just victimised more and your work life is just made a living hell, where you have no option then to resign.
I would never go back to that particular place if there was ever an opportunity to, most of the ones there are just bullies and they all stand up for one another.
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Victim of Bullying # 68. I can totally empathise with your plight, as I had a similar experience, except I put up with bullying, which occurred after I had reported a manager under the whistleblowing scheme. Although my allegations were substantiated, no sanction was taken against the miscreant and he continues to bully others with impunity.
Unfortunately I am rather bloody minded and I am blowed if I am going to leave because my fairly well paid job, because of this inept clown. I have stood up to him on numerous occasions and he realises I bite back so mostly leaves me alone.
I thought there was bullying in the police and the Armed Services. It is however far more insidious in other areas of the public sector.
In the Armed Services, Police, Fire & Rescue Service and Ambulance Service there is a recognisable rank structure. Also officers are required to pass professional examinations. Which often doesn’t occur in other sectors.
Yes there was an element of nepotism and cronyism in the uniformed services, but it is far more prevalent in other areas of the public sector. This frequently results in weak managers who have no concept of discipline or leadership. (There is a difference between a manager and a leader). This results in fertile for the bully.
I am just having a rant; it’s good for the soul – the problem is unlikely to change.
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@ 27.
Before you get on your high horse, I was merely pointing out that there is a fine line – like or not – between what is perceived as bullying and what is banter.
For your information….. I am not a bully, but do feel that you are bullying me with your statement which is how I perceive it. Truth! Now do you see where I am coming from? Derrrrrr!
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I was being bullied and it took me 2 years to pluck up the courage to tackle the person (female higher level than me who went to pieces). I went on websites, bought books on self esteem and still read them “after a bad day at work” just to remind myself I am good and I do a good job. I fight back now, they don’t like it and tell me to calm down as they don’t want people to hear. They really don’t think what they say to me is unacceptable. I know I don’t have the problem, they do. I am well liked, they aren’t. I will not leave a job which I like and do well because of this insecure person … they’ll leave before I do! We do have bullying procedures at work which I could use and I could produce my evidence and this person would be sacked but I just keep reminding myself how pathetic they are. I couldn’t do it as it would destroy them … am I stupid or a nice person, I’ll go with a nice person and better than them!
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I have had two female superiors in a so-called learned profession and they were both dreadful; capricious, inconsistent, whimsical and ego driven. The second one reminded me of “Queenie” in Blackadder; any dissent and “of with your head”! One of my little pleasures was to obtain a copy of the book “How to Manage difficult people”. After having read it, I displayed it in my office for the so-called superior to see every time her form darkened my door.
I think, however, that this subtle tactic escaped her attention. As well as being full of her own self-importance, this person would not have had the sense to realise that the message was directed at her. She was, no doubt in her opinion, neither difficult, nor was she a “person”, being self elevated into a immoratal occupant of an ivory tower who can do no wrong and whose frequent mistakes went unaaccounted for.
The more you “respect” these people, the more they feed off it and the more unmangeable and unaccountable they become.
I am fortunate to be in a position where I can make a living without being employed, it must be dreadful for those who have to remain within such an unhealthy environment. perhaps that is why stress-related cancers appear to abound in Jersey.
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I was badly bullied by a woman in finance who also assaulted another colleague at a 40th birthday do. I went to JACS and the man lit up a cigar without asking and blew it in my face. His advise was useless. I left that job. This woman went on to bully 6 other employees before HR got rid of her. And they knew about physical assault too but never did anything. Don’t put your trust in HR.
Herald
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Victim # 73. How right you are, in my experience the H.R. Department has an ‘in tray’, an ‘out tray’ and a ‘too damned difficult tray’ and more often than not the third tray is where they put complaints about bullying. They often seem to take the line of least resistance.
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HR wouldn’t have got rid of her. It would have been the management, acting though HR as they always do when there is any dirty work to be done. HR generally don’t have any powers beyond being management henchmen and sneaks. They generally don’t really know what they are doing, either, which causes all sorts of problems! As has been said elsewhere, they hang onto the coat tails of the business owners, contributing little apart from a layer of surveillance and divisive tactics. They are no-professionals who don’t have any particular skills apart from management grovelling. A bit like the swotty sneak that we all knew at school who would like to go running to the teacher.
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Having experienced actual bullying in the workplace at a very young age, I know it certainly does go on and when it does, more often than not, nothing is done about it. On the flip side, I do think that there are a lot of hyper sensitive people in the finance industry workplace who would say a comment such as “that really wasn’t very good, (for the following reasons..) and I expect better next time round” was bullying, which it clearly is not.
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Imagine a workplace where if you put a foot wrong you get moved to a punishment posting. Then imagine if you get moved without putting a foot wrong.
You get investigated for not saying “good morning” to the boss, you get recommended for dismissal for letting slip an innocuous piece of information. When you have your lunch break at an odd time, you have to write out what you did every fifteen minutes for a month. And don’t even think of going off with stress with a signed certificate from a Doctor or your pay will be stopped.
In a well known survey about four years ago, this place came much higher than average for reports of bullying and most were about the boss. The boss tried to call people’s bluff by saying they should detail complaints direct to him, but leave it anonymous. Simple schoolboy psychology: the incident would reveal who it was, nobody would write in and the boss would say “there you go, no bullying.”
But six people did complain and all got put in the bin.
We had a staff line for confidential complaints, but all callers were given a unique number and told their complaints would go to their boss and no one else.
Anyone beat that I’d be very surprised.
PS I left as soon as I could
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The truth is out. Real life is merely an extension of the schoolroom.
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I recently joined a well known bank and was on probation and raised with HR that my manager (who interviewed and employed me) was slating me to other managers and peers – in writing via email. I managed to get hold of a copy and it was not nice reading.
Apparently he felt threatened when questioned by HR.
Three weeks later I am asked to attend a disciplinary with HR – my MANAGER has lodged a FORMAL complaint that I was being unconstructive and deliberately awkward towards him.
I was advised to either resign or fail probation! I saw JACS who said since I was on probation and not being employed for x number of weeks I did not have a leg to stand on…
Merry Effing Christmas
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Dealing with my school bully got me suspended, well I did break his nose but I got no hassle from anyone on my return.
Finance in Jersey my experience yes it goes on particularly on the target driven side. Advice keep reporting something will happen. Never let them get you down, keep a diary, these clowns slip up eventually, revenge is a dish best served cold.
I can think of one individual who got ‘caught’ eventually and there was mass celebration in that business. to use an expression enjoying a bit of a renaissance these days ‘Keep calm and carry on’ dont lose the heid !
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i once had a job as a sparring partner to a proffessional boxer,
i got fed up of him hitting me so i walked out
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Shot in Both Feet, I urge you to go and seek legal advice. What JACS probably meant was that due to your short service you wouldn’t be entitled to a pay-off should you take it to a tribunal.
What proof do they have that you have been obstructive? Can they refer to specific incidents? What’s hugely in your favour is that you have concrete, written proof of your Manager’s comments. Even if you had been underperforming, their conduct (slating you to your colleagues) is completely unaccepatable behaviour. Definitely take this to an employment lawyer to see what they think. Don’t let your employer off the hook, as they’ll think they can treat anybody like this and get away with it if you just resign.
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Reading all these horror stories is enough to make me want to jump on the benefits bandwagon.
……I could be better off financially, but without the stress of work!!
Go figure!!
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The worst problem for me in the office was the endless domestic conversation on people’s mobile phones, the stench of overwhelming perfume and managers who were not qualified for the job. I simply wanted to do my job.
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#84 ‘I simply wanted to do my job’.
Very laudable, but surely you must realise that most people go to work to keep warm in the winter, have social intercourse and, above all, get paid?
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# 86 Poor them. Don’t they have a private life?
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