Move to end outsiders using Island healthcare
Monday 20th December 2010, 2:58PM GMT.
MOVES to stop foreigners coming to the Island to take advantage of free health and residential have been introduced by Health.
At present the taxpayer is responsible for providing residential care for the elderly after three months if they cannot afford to pay for it. Eddie Noel, the Assistant Health Minister, said that making some new residents wait four times longer for free non-emergency medical care should act as a deterrent.
Free non-emergency treatment and care are currently available to everyone who has been in the Island three months. But a new policy being introduced on 4 January will mean that those coming to Jersey without a job have to wait a year for free care and those coming to work have to wait six months.
• See Monday’s JEP for full story.
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Seems fair to me, of course if they really wanted to prevent incomers taking advantage they would operate a permit system. That way we could cherry pick those we wanted and keep out the vermin.
What next, are we going to restrict benefit to those in genuine need?
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Horse door bolted
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May be the assistant health minister can put the funds to better use other than spend it on another secretary or manager.
But no, it will be ploughed into useless hair brained scheme where Jersey patients will suffer
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if you do this all jersey recidents that come to uk then should have the same treatment wait 1 year this is stupid if you pay your social security that covers it and if you pay your tax that covers all your treatment jersey is going wrong direction when european people start going from jersey you will realy see who realy runs your island if they wernt there who will pick your potatoes who will work in hotels not jersey people its not a good job for them because jersey people are selfish lazy and up theyr own ar….. to do the hard work when out siders go we will see who realy runs your little paradise oh its not its hell
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About time too, our useless government have been very naive with regard to the health issue. I also read they are also stopping people bringing in relations which they dump in care at tax payer’s expense.
How about Work Permits whilst you are at it?
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#4 Taffy is spot on!
What a bunch of pathetic hypocrites we are.
I agree with the policy, but how can we possibly implement such a law when we expect UK taxpayers to provide us with healthcare?
This is an absolute joke of an island, and what saddens me most, is that I was born here
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id cards would also be a good idea+ work permits.
i would say use a social security card, but most employers have that in a drawer somewhere .
taffy(4) utter rot, and hardly worth responding to.
from a lazy, selfish, head stuck between my legs bean.
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Well! what a surprise! after “milking” the health agreement with the UK (until somebody noticed just how beneficial it was for Jersey) now the door is bolted. Effectively it is now a a case of we wont treat, you we won’t house you but we will tax you. Gee thanks mate!
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hello taff just to let you know me and the mrs are both jersey i have worked with lots of people called taffy first time i have heard them knock the jerseyman just a little note we have dicided to take a year out after paying social for 41 years when we get back we have to pay social for six months before we can claim benafits
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About time.
Why should the taxpayers pay for health tourism.
In this day and age everybody should contribute to the system before they take anything out of it.
Well done to our politicians for getting this right. And not a day to soon.
I’m fed up paying tax for someone else to spend my hard earned money who havent paid a penny to the system.
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And whilst we are at it bring in work permits and stop the rampant immigration problem that we have.
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My mum came to Jersey in the 1950s, married and brought up a family. She worked until she was 76 paying tax. Now she is suffering from dementia and she won’t get any help. Her house will have to go. What gratitude. On the other hand I know a woman who has a bad back (don’t we all know one of those) who hasn’t worked for years and yet manages on benefits to have a £3K holiday every year!
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To Taffy, learn tp spell. Also if you do not like it here, then leave.
My daughter and son are born and breed here. But they have to pay their social for 6 months before they can claim. So why not everyone else.
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4 Taffy – wow I thought I was reading a James Joyce rant. No punctuation whatsoever, this is the longest sentence I’ve ever read on this forum. Capital letters for names BTW taffy = Taffy, jersey = Jersey, european = European,
And spelling realy = really, recidents = residents, wernt = weren’t, theyr = their.
Congratulations on managing to bypass the education system altogether. You are precisely the sort of person we want to encourage to work in Jersey.
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What immigration problem? This island’s composed almost entirely of immigrants, even the old “pureblood” Jersey families if you go back a few generations. NJ.
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Agreed that the UK will need to implement the same system for Jersey people. That aside I don’t think it goes far enough. Should someone coming here without a job, and continuing to not work, really get free care after a year? Why should that be? Also, what is the situation for elderly people who come here to be with family but who cannot afford to be in a home? Do they receive free care after 3 months? And, if so, why?
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Oh Oh here comes the spelling police! Run for your lives people, they will stop at nothing to ignore the topic and focus entirely on your punctuation and grammar!
Btw #13 Northern Light, cracking fail post – “To Taffy, learn tp spell.”
I chuckled for about an hour at this, you should be a part-time comedian
Back on Topic
=====================
I believe this is a fair rule on entering the island. If we can’t live in a residentially qualified property until after obtaining A-H/J/K qualifications, why should someone come here and leech hospitality benefits the day they step foot on the island?
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Nathan, you are right.
Anwhere you go in Jersey all you hear are regional UK accents. The only thing they’ve got in common is a serious epidemic of Antipodean Questioning Inflection.
Parachute a blindfolded listener in and they would never guess where they were (until they hear the inevitable insular subject matter).
Even the rich tone of the Jersey accent used by the better off has been lost while that of the lower echelons has turned sloppy with Estuary English and Australian soap operas influencing the recent generations who took up the ‘bean’ mantle.
The sheer hypocrisy of some of these types wanting to pull up the drawbridge after planting their backsides over here, two minutes beforehand, beggars belief.
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17 Passerby –
Oh Oh here comes the spelling police! Run for your lives people, they will stop at nothing to ignore the topic and focus entirely on your punctuation and grammar
I agree who are these people who think that spelling and punctuation are important, I didn’t spend 11 years at school to learn how to express my native language in written form. These are the sort of people who think you need to pass a driving test to know how to drive, bloody pedants.
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Yeah! The Verdic it’s great ‘init Jersey? a rich tapestry of races? a crucible of cultures? I love it! Regular flights home to Liverpool, import as much as you can, healthcare both here and in Liverpool, freedom of movement, good wages, despotic government, “fit” Polish birds!!
The local kids eh? privately educated and always asking for “ciggy’s” outside the Spar shop … well funny man!
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Taffy and Scouser if you don,t like the system then go home we don,t need you here
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16 ‘Also, what is the situation for elderly people who come here to be with family but who cannot afford to be in a home? Do they receive free care after 3 months? And, if so, why?
That depends very much upon whether they are one’s own relatives or somebody else’s! None of yours thinking of joining you, then, Leah?
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I agree there should be some sort of system in place for new arrivals,who then bring their grannies/grandpas over for free treatment and free nursing homes,who have never put a penny in the pot.
We have got a reciprocal agreement with UK so they should be treated the same as we are,all other nations relatives refused entry.
OH Jasas,hope I haven’t made any more spelling mistakes,Have wrote this in a hurry.
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very sad when i read jersey people said if you dont like the system them go home !!!!!!!!!!!!!we dont need you her………….is not nice a tall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!yes you need the foruns in jersey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!mayb not now because the tourismo is gone jersey i feel sorry bat spoly everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i love jersy ………
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21. Mick
‘Taffy and Scouser if you don,t like the system then go home we don,t need you here’
‘Oh yes you do’
You have always needed outsiders.
As soon as the population of this island rose above what it could sustainably support through subsistence farming then trade was necessary; be it for apples, cider, boats, potatoes or service industries (tourism and banking).
The reality is Jersey is like a Ponzi scheme. We need to keep bringing people in at the bottom to support our economy and our housing market. You can tell people to go home all you like; the reality is that if they did this the island would eclipse the spectacular fall of Bernie Madoff.
Accept that ‘outsiders’ are the foundation of your teetering tower and get over it!
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Eh! Boss comments Geordie!! never thought of it as a Ponzi scheme? I like your style. I mean we’ve been paying all this cash into the system to be told that if we leave for more than 5 years it’s back to square one? Which divvy thought that one up? I mean I’m not even sure that my SS contributions will be ring-fenced, I mean who regulates the States, how can I be sure they are not mixing “client money” with “States money” How can I be sure that I will get my Jersey pension when I retire? Lots of questions from this daft brickie … very few answers!!! I think we need some local ideas from local people (not)!!
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Scouser the system is set up so that we come over here, pay extortionate rents, do s**t jobs the locals don’t want, then go back home before we get our quals. Any money we pay into the system is kept for the state, you trying claiming a Jersey pension from the UK.
How many locals have had their mortgages paid by the likes of us. Meantime locals can come to the UK, work, buy houses, have the same rights as us. Cake and eat it that’s the local.
I’m from the opposite coast to you btw, directly opposite on the map, bah Irish sea softie, try dipping your toe in the North Sea.
Now watch some local tell you how bad they have it, lose their quals if they leave ( why the hell would you leave? ) can’t buy a house until they are 10 years old – same old BS.
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Sick of people moaning about qualies on here! You came here for the work, if you begrudge paying the high rent then go and find work elsewhere. I am not local, get my quals next year. I came here at 20, lived in terrible accommodation whilst paying through the nose to do so. However, I firstly understood the idea behind qualies and secondly the poor, expensive accommodation was more than covered by excellent standard of living. I worked in low paid jobs while attending evening classes to gain a professional qualification. Through marriage I was able to buy a house 5 years ago, so getting my qualies is not a big deal. Of course if they got rid of them I would be better off (i.e. if I sell) but this should not happen. We all know the system (or should do!) before we come here, so put up or shut up!
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Scouser, Cod Head, Geordie
So “the system is set up so that you come over here….”
Let me just stop you right there.
There is no SYSTEM that MAKES you come here, so your pathetic argument is wrong wrong wrong right from the very start. There is absolutely nothing, no system of any kind, that makes you come here, or indeed stay. Slavery was abolished centuries ago and was never rife in Jersey anyway (unlike your country)
I am sick of hearing your same old BS about how bad it is here and you are all so hard done by, so let me happily bring up the old Jersey answer, expecially for you three, right here:
**IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, THERE IS A BOAT IN THE MORNING!**
Good riddance to the three of you
BTW happy christmas.
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Cod Head, scouser.
Thank you for being so selfless and giving me the life of riley.
If you want to carry on being so daft just drop the money in a carrier bag under Vickie’s statue in her park.
I will collect from there, you know keep the middle (tax man) man out of it.
Thanks again for your generosity.
By the way, why do you stay here?
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30 PJG – By the way, why do you stay here?
Because as unfair, racisit and bigoted as it is, it’s still better than being unemployed back home. Doesn’t make it right though does it masser.
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No 29 Tobias
‘Good riddance to the three of you’
Tobias, why are you so bitter? Sounds like you are making some BIG assumptions and have grouped the three of us according to some local discriminatory factor i.e. we are northern (from the tag names used), probably in the building trade and the cause of despicable behaviour in town on a Friday night.
The Ponzi scheme I refer to is far less judgemental than you. Bernie Madoff didn’t discriminate between the rich and famous and the rich and stupid. As long as they came in at the bottom and held the thing together for a little while longer he could continue taking the cream.
The same can be said for Jersey. Locals may feel a little uncomfortable when they hear of ‘outsiders’ living in terrible accommodation, but that guilt can be borne as long as the ‘continued prosperity at any cost’ mantra continues.
If I told you I was a consultant at the hospital and could make the difference between you living and dying if you couldn’t fly to Southampton, would you still be as keen to utter the same ‘good riddance’ sentiment?
It may be uncomfortable reading for you, but Geordies do qualify as doctors and eventually consultants you know. Nobody makes us come here but without us I think you would find life tough for lots of reasons.
I’m sorry but the ‘put up or shut up’ stance that many locals (and people like Sensible) take when some ‘outsiders’ voice disquiet at inequalities here is unacceptable. Jersey may refuse us equal housing rights, but the right to free speech is a given.
I say it again; you do need us, so DEAL WITH IT!
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Geordie
The reason I’m ‘so bitter’ is that it Bothers me to see the island of my forefathers ruined and our culture destroyed by the outsiders who come here THROUGH THEIR OWN CHOICE and then have the gall to consider that we owe them some sort of special treatment. For your information, my family and I are unable to get onto the property ladder due to rents being so ridiculously high – yet the wife and I have those wonderful ‘qualies’ which Scouser keeps harping on about. We’re not all millionaires here, and the ones that are very rich are generally immigrants that have come to enjoy the low tax.
So you see, outsiders, it’s not exactly peachy being a local living here either, we’re stuck in an overcrowded place that has lost most of it’s identity and becomes more like a part of the UK every day- yet still the likes of Scouser moans that it’s not good enough for him. As mentioned on a separate thread the only accents you hear here are foreign – have you ever heard a true Jersey accent? Probably not because the only places you hear them now are New Zealand or Canada.
I think, Geordie, you hit the nail on the head with your comment that we needed outsiders “As soon as the population of this island rose above what it could sustainably support”.
So yes I guess we do ‘need’ them – although only because we’ve allowed so so so many people to come here, the more we allow in, the more we need to bring in others to care for those already here.
A nice big (very big) boat at the harbour to send them all on their merry way would end that requirement, also lowering the property prices, pollution and overcrowding etc etc.
Basically, if people want to come here then we cannot really blame them as individuals, only our stupid government that allowed our island to be raped in this manner by not having an immigration policy other than ‘qualies’. But what we really do not like, is when people -such as Scouser – constantly mouth off about ‘us thick, lazy, racist locals’ and how much better life is back home, carrying on as if we are a charity case that should be thanking them for gracing us with their presence. They’re here for THEM not for US.
If it’s so good back home, perhaps we should all move there.
Sorry for the whinge – happy christmas
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I was born here, so the quallies issue isn’t eating away at me.
However, the attitude of Tobias is typical of the right-wing individuals who infest this island
I was led to believe the fascists left in 1945, Tobias is living proof they are still here
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Can you tell me how this differs so greatly to the UK? Looking at the NHS and Jersey health pages on gov.je there is not a considerable differrence between how the UK treats Jersey people and vica versa. I suppose however reading the facts before commenting is not something that ever happens on these sites.
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Eh! calm down! calm down!! I’m not being a “frigin” racisist, I just want equal rights for an equal days werk. Nobody gave a monkeys when John the Masurier got a job on “Dads Army” as a posh toff??? I just want to be treated like a local with equal rights a states house a bit of social money for me ciggies and bevvies! I could be a memeber of the States, a finance professionel, or a brikie. You decide! … and moderate your rwesponses accordingly. … Our Kid!!!!
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Eh!” Cod Head la! you must be from, Hull or ‘ull our kid? Thank you for sayin what I’ve been thinking for years, this place is just one big “con” designed by locals ….for locals
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#22 Rozel, they wouldn’t expect to move somewhere and get free care having not contributed to the system at all, no-one should expect that. And no, my family wouldn’t move here when they have a lovely crime-free existence back home, who would
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#35 If the specific change mentioned in the article is made then it will be different to how the UK treat Jersey, but we will put pressure on the UK to reciprocate, naturally. As for other matters, the ‘qualifications’ system does not exist for Jersey people living in the UK, they are just accepted as UK citizens.
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Beaumont, a bit knee jerk there. I can’t see anything remotely “fascist” in the post referred to. If you’re local you’re probably just a bit weak,wet and flacid and happy to let people walk all over you. Perhaps your job is secure, who knows? Australia has strict immigration policy to protect the loacls. They’re not right wing. And, by the way, are you aware that fascism comes from the left?
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I think they are probably talking about the people who live on the island, move mum in for a couple of months and then she has a cataract operation.
Or the aunt who has lived in France for 17 years but pops back for her knee operation.
Or the brother who emigrated in 1979 but has returned for a new hip.
All real examples (names and dates have been changed
)and I bet we can all find them without looking too hard.
These are the type of people we should be stopping, those who haven’t had a genuine misfortune whilst in the island and those who haven’t contributed to the island economy for a number of years.
It is my taxes paying for these operations, and I have no problem with people living in Jersey (or on holiday) it is those who choose to live elsewhere but pop back to jump another countries queue!
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39
Who mentioned qualification? I know that J Cats are excempt from this, but that is the same as other countries with work permit schemes.
Again, if anyone had read the UK NHS site then you will notice, that apart from a couple of very minor changes the wording is identical. If there were a recipricol health agreement…which I am sure there will be again soon then it will be fine. If you go to the UK without having work then you too need to wait 12 months to get free health care other than e ergency cover. It is 3 or 6 months in other instances to get other benefits.
If you come from France or other countries we have agreements with then you are fine.
People keep forgetting that Jersey is not part of the UK or EU…..
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PJG 30
As much as I sympathize with Scouser, Taffy, Geordie and others in the same predicament, I must admit that sometimes (most times) they are bit too hard on the island and its inhabitants. Unfortunately, Jersey is a small island and the “locals” are simply trying to protect what they consider their rights, so a little more understanding from the “newcomers” wouldn’t go amiss.
Having said that, comments such as – “There’s a boat out in the morning” – are simply fueling the antipathy toward the island which already exists. So well done PJG for asking (and may I say in the most tolerant of ways) these very dissatisfied people “why” they stay and giving them a chance to answer honestly.
Oh, seeing as I’m here, I’d like to take this opportunity to wish a very Merry Xmas and a Prosperous New year to the Moderators, Bella, Beaumont, B S DeLuxe (whatever happened to him?), C Le Verdic, Geordie, God’s Mentor, Joker, Leah Holmes, Mogit, Pip Clement, PJG, Rozel Aubin, R B Bougourd, Scouser, Taffy, Tobias, truthseeker and his/her “Alter Ego” Real truthseeker and all those posters who have entertained me greatly over the past year.
I wish you all the best of health, peace of mind, love, fortune, success and happiness in the world!
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Beaumont @ 34 – grow up, it’s not fascism at all and to answer you in the same childish prose, “ooh, I thought the foreign invaders left in 1945″, see how silly your argument is?
Born Warrior,
Yes you’re right I should probably have tried to post a more tolerant response rather than the old boat/morning, but then Scouser is particularly annoying (and as pointed out quite possibly not even scouse at all just a wind up merchant)
Happy christmas to you as well, also to everyone on here especially Leah Holmes, Overpopulated, the two Truthseekers, Claire Stephens, Cecile Le Verdic and Blue Knight.
I’m sure we will all be here to set the world to rights again next year!
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Thanks born warrier.
Wishing you all the best for xmas & happy new year,and every-one else too numerous to remember,thanks for keeping me entertained all year.
To one and all.
May you always have work for your hands to do,
May your pockets hold always a coin or two.
May the sun shine bright on you window pane,
May the rainbow be certain to follow each rain.
May the hand of a friend always be near you,
And fill your heart with gladness to cheer you.
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Oh, dear me, I forgot Adrian, Blue Knight, Vicki, Cathy and Mulvie and so many other regulars!
Merry Xmas and a prosperous New Year to all you guys!
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Christmas greetings to all the regulars and also the silent majority of readers. If we ever manage a get together some of us would have to take it in turns to appear!
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I remember once being called a “bloody foreigner”. I was born in Jersey and the fourth generation to live here.This new system is wrong, divisive and adversely affects social justice.By all means make the neccesary cuts, but not by dint of excluding someone from another country, whom has a valid contribution to make and has been encouraged to work here. What if that “foreigner” is, for example, a nurse or even a doctor? Will they also have to wait six months to get treatment for non emergency care and five years for sickness and incapacity benefit, when they get knocked over by a bus? Will their children also have to wait five years,even if they were born in Jersey, if diagnosed with a condition like autism or some physical disability? Jersey has to be seen by the UK and the EU to be acting responsibly with a framework of reciperocal policies.Without this understanding, it is no wonder that we face adversity.
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Dear all non-Jersey born,
Thank you ever so much for all the taxes you’ve paid. This has helped me to obtain a University education, without which I would not be in such a well-paid and well respected career. I’m being paid so handsomely I may now even be able to afford a property (thankfully I have A-H)
If it’s any consolation to those in the UK, I help out the British economy greatly due to the sheer scale of importing I do. Hey, I even took a job in the UK, paid my taxes and then stole an English girl. I literally took a job of yours and a woman of yours. Win-win!
Unfortunately I didn’t like the UK all that much, so I took a flight in the morning. I’m now back in Jersey getting fat off the land.. feels good man.
Lots of love to you all, I mean it.
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@32
The reason why Tobias grouped you three together is because you three are the one’s whinging about the “system”, genius, not because of any made up racism in your mind to help your argument that all beans are hideous nazi monsters!
Yes, unfortunately we do need your type, much as it grieves me to say, but i REFUSE to do jobs that are beneath me eg. cook/clean my toilets/drive/wipe my backside, all of these tasks i pay your type to do!
And come on Geordie, not that it would affect me as i have private medical, but there is NO WAY you are a consultant at the hospital… Unless you are being consulted in ways to paint the walls or fix the plumbing!
YO HO HO.
Merry Christmas.
As Always
Love & Hugs.
xxx
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#49. ‘…without which I would not be in such a well-paid and well respected career.’
Give us a clue, then?
You’ve ruled out finance, law, and property development from amongst the well paid careers!
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Oops, I left out politics!
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Mondieu 49
I can’t make out whether you are intentionally using a kind of “aggressive ridicule” or just underlining your good fortune…but it doesn’t matter either way.
You see, we (and when I say we, I mean everyone who holds a job) are all cogs in the same wheel. We are all part of a single structure that forces us to be competitive.
Our competitiveness generates economic activity. And, as long as the overall production of wealth (whether it be in the UK or Jersey) is sufficient to keep the “system” going you are simply doing exactly what is required of you…
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