Jersey’s not so bad
Wednesday 29th December 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
From Roger Goodwin.
AS a recent arrival in the Island following five years living in France, I am following with interest the current debates aired in your newspaper over budget deficits, zero-ten taxation and the Carswell Report.
A couple of months ago, I managed to attend some of the free lunch-time talks at Law House; one was presented by Sir Philip Bailhache and entitled ‘Making a Will in Jersey’. I notice that Sir Philip is embroiled in the zero-ten and Carswell Report debates at the moment. I also note that he was accused of promoting a punch-up with the UK over one of these issues.
As I see it, Jersey is Jersey. Its uniqueness is a rare quality to be preserved. Its current problems are, to some extent, unique also, although global economic conditions – the likes of which I have not seen in my lifetime of 66 years – have a great bearing on the pressures and challenges that the Island is facing.
Whatever the outcome over the next few years, please do not as an Island community sacrifice your traditions and heritage. Sure, there are some day-to-day administration issues to be addressed and there is a need for some streamlining of budget controls, but do not be dictated to or be pressurised by ‘outside forces’, ie the UK or Brussels. They have enough problems of their own.
To the whingers and moaners in the Island, I say: ‘Go live in the UK or France for a few years. Go experience their crime rates; their huge immigration issues; their lack of respect for one another; their lack of interest in what their governing bodies are doing; their sky-high VAT and TVA rates – compared to your GST – not to mention income and corporation taxes. The list is endless. I can guarantee it won’t be long before the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger, ‘I’ll be back!’ (or, for goodness’ sake, ‘Let me come back!’), will be ringing in your ears.
In my opinion, France and Germany and some of the other mainland European countries have the edge over the UK on some of these issues, certainly in terms of the day-to-day quality of life and trying to hold on to their core traditions, although the clouds of change are fast approaching there too.
So Jersey folk, even with today’s problems I would use the phrase of a well-known UK politician some years ago. You’ve never had it so good.
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Yes Jersey was excellent but is no longer so.
205 VAT plus 5% GST makes Jersey a dear place to live in now. Not like the good old days when Jersey was a cheap place to live and holiday in.
As per the UK it has chained itself to the capitalistic, consumeristic, 24/7/365, greed culture and it will reap the rewards of the wrong choice of living.
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Glad to hear you are enjoying your new home. Please come back and comment in 2 years time and see if you feel the same.
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Yes, Jersey was unique, however, our politicans have set out to destroy this.
Huge immigration resulting in hideous, expensive building everywhere (locals still cannot afford to buy most of it).
Massive increase in traffic, most who seem to think the speed limits do not apply to them.
Rubbish strewn all over the countryside – the immigrants seem to treat our countryside as a rubbish dump.
PS I have quite a few friends who have moved elsewhere and are quite happy
PPS no one I meet has any respect for our Glorious Leaders, they do not run the place for locals.
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As I said recently, on another thread “Nothing wrong with the island,…”.
#2
Reading between the lines, Mark, I expect that our new found friend will still be happy in a couple of years time because it rather sounds as though he has stepped straight onto one of the higher rungs of the ladder.
He’s also smart enough to realise that writing a letter praising the place is a good way to get his name remembered. Should help when he needs a mooring!
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Cannot agree with you Roger I’m afraid.I am Jersey born but left the island almost five years ago and have a much better life in the UK.I am lucky to live in a village where people are friendly and if anyone has a crisis they will not be short of help and support.Cost of living is much lower than Jersey and I can even speak highly of the NHS having had the highest standard care following an illness and subsequent operation this year.As for the crime rate I certainly feel safe in my home and out on the streets.
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I am happy that Roger is content with his quality of life on the island, but I feel it is somewhat naive use SuperMac’s old phrase – “you’ve never had it so good.”
Jersey is suffering its worst unemployment crisis for decades, and I -like many islanders – cannot yet see the green shoots of recovery emerging.
Furthermore, even though, statistically, the average standard of living here is about 20%-30% better than on the Mainland (according to the BBC), this represents a median statistic; it does not break local society into different socio-economic strata.
The truth is that the island IS an expensive place to live, and the closer you are to the bottom end of the socio-economic system, the more this becomes apparent.
The above point explains why so many young people opt not to return to the island after university study on the Mainland; it also explains why so many immigrant workers sometimes need to undertake several jobs, often working unsociable hours, simply to make ends meet.
Jersey IS a lovely island, but it is hardly a paragon of social equipoise.
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Dear Roger, as a local I can only agree with Julie (5) and Mark G (2). Oh, and I too have spent many years off island and feel able to comment from experience.
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No where is perfect, but Jersey really is not that bad.
The cost of commuting for many in the UK runs into thousands of pounds and there is also the time spent travelling.
Cheap property and well paid jobs in the UK are seldom found together. I reguarly meet people who have left the island and return.
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Was he on drugs?
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Thank you Roger for a little common sense.
I often have friends leaving the island (normally for Australia) and with one exception, all have returned within five years.
Yes, things are changing. Yes, it isn’t as good as it was. Yes, our politicians are mainly a bunch of bananas.
I’m still thankful I was born here, and hopeful my children can put in hard work, diligence and a positive attitude to achieve a decent standard of living in the island of their birth.
We are lucky, as long as we are still moaning there’s hope for the island
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Jersey could still be fantastic if we concentrated on a first class education for all and avoided any laws/policies rolled out in the UK since Thatcher.
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#10 Cathy
It’s interesting to see you talk about your children’s future here
My Son is currently at Southampton University & my Daughter is at Sussex
They have both told me that they won’t be returning to Jersey after their graduation. We all want the best for our kids, so I was obviously delighted they’ve made a sensible decision
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Not so bad but it should be better.
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Well..it depends on which bit of UK we’re talking about in terms of crime, cost of living, neighbourly relations..comparing a little island against a big island is not going to be an accurate representation. For instance I came from the bit of UK whose cost of living is the same as Jersey (and its not London we’re from either) whereas a friend from Lancashire says it is alot cheaper over there.
As for children’s education and future, the logical path is for them to move on from here and go to a good uni in the UK or America and if we’re still on the island, they’d want to come back assuming they can that they can carve out a good career and living for themselves. Same goes for anywhere else in the world really!
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I think Roger Goodwin is right. In comparison to other parts of the world, Jersey really isn’t that bad.
I have lived in the U.K. since retiring from the States of Jersey Police and yet I would return to the island tomorrow if circumstances would allow it.
I can also speak from experience about other parts of the world, having served in H.M. Forces in Germany, the Arabian Gulf and the Mediterranean. Although Jersey is by no means perfect, it is far better than most of the whingers portray.
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You’ve never had it so good.
What a naive statement.How can someone who has just arrived offer an opinion.Its like going to Zimbabwe for a two week holiday and saying what a lovely place it is.It goes much deeper than that.The people who have ‘never had it so good’.are the wealthy tax dodgers who have come to live here and the migrant workers who have come from a poorer economic area.I’m sure most local people and longer term residents had a better quality of life 5,10 years ago.
This constant attempt to try and ‘big ‘up the island by the wealthy and make it look like everything is rosy has the opposite effect and pushes our many social problems further out of the limelight.Just because life is hard somewhere else doesn’t mean everything is great here.
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Roger is right in his comments! Obviouly those who complain are the ones who have never lived abroad to see the reality of what you have got. As far as I am concerned this is Paradise apart for the weather. Please for all the moaner’s Get a life and have a good look abroad! Otherwise there is a boat in the morning and join the rest of the illegal immigrants…they don’t seem to moan! HAPPY NEW YEAR HAPPY PEOPLE!
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Jersey is a great place to live its the politics and the weather that destroys it.
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Agree with 17 – Patrick
Anyone who thinks the UK is all wonderful, check this: 20% vat, diesal going to 139.5p/gallon, council taxes £800 ish per month, rail fares averaging £3-4k per year (and this is just getting to work to EARN a living)…forget about 47 per loaf bread..it taste rank.
Although..not sure about the weather though.. what’s wrong with the weather in Jersey? Its the winter isn’t it?
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not too bad
‘Anyone who thinks the UK is all wonderful, check this: 20% vat, diesal going to 139.5p/gallon’
That’s not a bad price. It’s almost that for a litre!
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Council tax £800 per month?? Where on earth do you get that from?
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@18. I quite agree, and as soon as we get some politicians that can do something about the weather the better.
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“…their sky-high VAT and TVA rates – compared to your GST…..”
Well in most cases in Jersey we pay the VAT plus the GST!
Read more: http://www.thisisjersey.com/2010/12/29/jerseys-not-so-bad/#ixzz19tYD7yJQ
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I live in the U.K. and pay nearly £2,000 council tax and about £1.28p per litre for diesel. The grass really isn’t greener outside Jersey.
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In answer to not too bad (comment 19)My council tax is not within a million miles of your figure(not sure who gave you that ridiculous figure-it must be for a castle?) and no train needed for us to get to work either.As for petrol with discount available through our energy supplier it was about the same as you pay in Jersey last time I checked.I don’t buy bread for 47p but I certainly buy very nice bread from a local farmshop which beats mass produced stuff like you have in the Co-Op.And agree with others-in Jersey you pay VAT equivalent prices PLUS GST so not cheap!!
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Having just come back from Gran Canaria, it shows that the taxi services here are a huge rip-off. £17 for a trip from the airport to town. The same sort of distance travelled in Gran Canaria cost 3 euro.
Nursery costs for children here are also huge costing about a grand per month for a single child. In the UK this is a lot less.
The price of milk and bread are more than twice as much as it costs in the UK.
Lets face it – Jersey is only concerned with trying to please the finance industry and its supporters. Everyone else gets hit hard!
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Roger you have been here 5 mins yes this is a great place for the likes of possibly yourself who obviously do not have housing but clearly enough money to come here at your time of life and pay the rents necessary to provide you with a comfortable lifestyle. How about talking to some of the local Portuguese of your age range see how they were treated when they arrived and their struggle!! And that’s just the start
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- 25 Jule
Council tax was mine and I don’t live in a castle. Nice house yeah ..but definitely not a castle.
Lucky you to be working locally..not so lucky for the rest of us who rely either on trains or cars to get to work.
As for petrol..again, lucky you to sort out some discount voucher…yes if you join a scheme and eventually get the discount..I rather have it upfront personally as I don’t have time to sort out various cards and memberships to get a discount.
You are and I say again, lucky to not have high council taxes, not needing the train, probably not really needing to use the car much and I suspect, do not smoke or drink excessively or at all…and maybe you don’t go to the high street much either. All good things don’t get me wrong and I wish that for myself too but it aint happening.
As for VAT+GST…I am sure with a bit of research and homework (ie like getting schemes off fuel as you mentioned) you’ll be able to suss out a way to avoid them (ie online stores, make your own bread even??)
Bottom line is…I like Jersey…it isn’t perfect but my point is UK isn’t a bed of roses either!
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Sorry Rodger but i am a little angry, at your comment i felt forced to leave Jersey where i was born after paying £800 a month for a 2 bedroom flat plus £1000 per month nursery fees before we bought a loaf of bread,we where told there was no help available because myself and my husband work, we are just 2 ordinary people who where struggling with the high cost of living so we made the hardest decision ever to leave. May be you are wealthy and you can afford to live here if so i can not think of a better place to live but please use your brain.
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Well said Roger, unfortunately you now have to suffer all of the above whingers comments.
Solution:
If you cant afford to live here, either get a better job or leave, but PLEASE stop whining!
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Roger, it’s great that you are enjoying Jersey. Maybe you are one of the wealthy ones.
But don’t generalise the UK, I was raised in the UK in a place with absolutely no crime and if I wanted kids it would undoubtedly be the best place to raise them. Equally I have lived short-term in places in the UK that have more crime than Jersey but offer much more opportunity.
Maybe you lay too much emphasis on crime levels, I’ve lived in rough areas but I’ve still never been a victim of crime!
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#25 Julie, people talk about Council Tax but seem to forget Parish Rates and also property management fees (I’m in a smaller flat than before but the management fees are at least 20 times what I paid in the UK) which don’t just apply to flats.
I pay more in management fees here than I paid Council Tax in the UK.
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32 ‘I pay more in management fees here than I paid Council Tax in the UK.’
No wonder the industry are so keen on building flats and private developments. Not content with making money from sales, they want a finger in the pie for ever after.
Nice work if you can get it!
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To not so bad (comment 28) We both drive to work but no more than 20 minutes so no problem.Regarding the discount scheme-you misunderstand how simple this is.You go online,order whatever value vouchers you want from £100 upwards and they arrive next day in the post-couldn’t be easier or quicker really and there are various shops which accept them from food,petrol,DIY,holidays-we mainly stick to Waitrose/John Lewis which covers just about everything we need on a daily basis.We use the car quite a bit as there is so much to see and do and we eat and drink out,visit theatre more than ever and do most shopping on the high street as the choice is so good and our nearest city is great to visit.My bottom line is yes Jersey is nice but for many local people it is getting very stressful to keep their heads above water especially if they are raising a family.I am happier out of it but people should not feel forced to leave due to the cost of living.
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Hold on. So poor people find it hard to buy a decent property on a prosperous island? Is that such a surprise?
The truth is that small islands are either victims of their own success (as Jersey is ) or are impoverished backwaters. It is very difficult to have a goldilocks economy. Those recalling the golden years invariably think of the period when Jersey had tourism, when the finance industry was starting out, where money was everywhere but people outside of Jersey hadn’t cottoned on.
Most locals who were at the prime of their working life from 1960-1980 did very well. And I don’t mean just lawyers and accountants – electricians, builders, retailers, hoteliers, anyone willing to start up their own business. But that was a very unusual period and will not happen again. The real failure was not having the proper tax system in place during that growth period to support the island when it invariably came to an end.
Jersey is a wonderful place to live, but I’d say you need to earn at least £30,000 a year (after your tax and property expenses) to be remotely comfortable. And they need to work out a coherent policy on populaton growth and development to keep the Island’s natural beauty intact.
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Rodger youre not related to Fred by any chance ?
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Jersey is paradise for the rich and it is run for the benefit of the rich. Everybody else is just servants. Albeit a democracy, the mental state remains deeply set in feudalism. To which class does Roger belong to?
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Roger, I am pleased you like the island. It is a beautiful place, but it has huge problems today compared to how it was when I was growing up there. I left 10 years ago and have lived and worked in several countries. Most of these other countries also have their problems, but generally the quality of life for a working professional family such as ours is better overseas than in Jersey. Sadly, Jersey has become too expensive even for a professional working in the hated finance industry. I’d hate to be a lorry driver or shop assistant working in Jersey with a family trying to make ends meet.
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I think personally you are all right , Every human being has a right to moan and complain if they are not getting a fair deal , And it is certain that many dont in Jersey . It is also cirtain that many do , and it is those that are comfortable and really dont care about other peoples problems . You can all argue about this till the end of time, and everybody is still right .
Whilst there are thngs called ” Classes” there will alway be unfair conditions and fair conditions. This arguement pretty much goes down to the outdated method of a monetary system and these problems will never go away whilst money is still used as a higher value than the values of people .
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Yes Jersey is a great place to live. If the Politicians, the Rich People and the aledgedly “POOR” on massive amounts of income support, where not ripping us all off! If all was fair and our Government had the Ba—s to pass information between the Tax Department (including other countries where our immigrants come from) social security and the Police we could have this Island sown up! ALL would pay fair tax, ALL would pay fair Social Security, ALL would contribute to the day to day costs of running this Island and all the bad people would be thrown out!!! But am I living in a world of fantasy??
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As a mother of two beans, and a bean herself, i can understand why the whingers whinge. IT IS getting SO expensive to live here.
BUT………i am not moving. Once the cold spell leaves us it is downhill to the summer, where i can hopefully enjoy days on the beach, or at the park with the kids. I am happy with their education in their local States run primary. Crime is minimal if not non existent in the area that i live. Wider family are here to support us in times of need. My husband and i are lucky enough to have job security at this difficult time.
All of these things, and more if i had time to think about them, outweigh the negative.
I will continue to struggle to cope financially for all of these reasons. These are also all of the reasons by sibling is moving back to JErsey from the UK this month.
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Brendan,
Given that the Tax department and Social Security cannot even co-ordinate ITIS and quarterly soc sec returns (despite Terry Le Sueur personally telling the States this was forthcoming at the the time ITIS was introduced), I think it is a world of fantasy.
Why am I reminded of the fart and chew gum wisecrack?
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OMG (as the youngsters say!!) As Mr Goodwin’s daughter I can assure you he’s not loaded or rolling in it by any stretch of the imagination…without getting all morbid, after my sister passed away 18 months ago at the age of 43, we decided as a family we wanted to live closer to each other…so we’re making our home a two generation home using my Dad’s hard earned money from the last 50 years!! He didn’t roll in on the crest of a wave with rose tinted glasses on thinking Jersey was all dreamy, in fact because I have lived here all my life he has been able to keep up to date with a lot of what goes on and has gone on for the last 40 years…some of you really do need to lighten up and understand that, yes we have problems, but we are also very lucky to live here on such a beautiful island…even when it is grey and murky…now please, I wasn’t going to get involved in this but with everyone harping on about my dad being loaded was really starting to get on my nerves.
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I wonder if people born in other expensive places round the world moan and bitch when they can’t afford to live there or do they simply bite the bullet and leave to a cheaper area?
Get this straight people no one is entitled just because they are born somewhere – the social security system Jersey has would be great if there wasn’t so many people abusing it
Either work harder/smarter or leave but for heavens sake actually think about what this guy is saying when COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD we are still incredibly priveliged and I for one am sick of all the people who take it for granted
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Alan no one should be forced out from their country of birth. Jersey is far far too expensive now, I put it down to too much greed.
Brendan good to see that someone realises it isn’t just the welfare scroogers who are to blame for the present state of affairs.
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Well thank god he has got quallies. The thought of a 66 year old having to live life as a second class citizen would have been too much.
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In regard to 43
To be honest your father should not have made such a naïve and flippant comment like you have never had it so good !! for many here that is true but only because they are the ones that have better access to tax reductions, and play the fiddle..in the local orchestra it’s a simple as that!! the rest of us are faced with the reality of living somewhere where the above keep reminding us its just a matter of leaving if you don’t like it or cant afford it.
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Not sure where you lived to pay council tax of £800pm as the most expensive according to UK government figures is £3400pa, less than £300 pm. Unless you had a really massive, expensive house in a high council tax borough???
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Goodness; I wish people would stop complaining about Jersey. It really isn’t that bad. I have lived in may parts of the world that are far, far worse than the island where I spent most of my life. It isn’t perfect, but please tell me where is there a place that is perfect?
I currently live in the U.K. and but for my current circumstances, I would definitely go back to the island.
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