Political support for Ouaisné residents
Wednesday 29th December 2010, 2:58PM GMT.
Nineteen tenants rent the land at Ouaisné, living in caravans and chalets Picture: TONY PIKE (01112693)
POLITICIANS are joining the fight to save a caravan site at Ouaisné which has been there since the 1930s from development.
Four States Members who attended a recent meeting organised by the caravan site tenants have said they will also object to the plans to build eight houses on the site.
They say that they will not support building houses on the green zone, where there is a presumption against development.
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8 houses would be a huge improvement over what is currently there
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I think this is down to the owner at the end of the day and if this seriously is a green zone then what are chalets already doing on it?
Its either a clear area for natural habitat or its not.
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good to see some support for the small people and this no doubt good little community.
lets see more of this type of accomodation, many would like to live like this.
was looking at a static in france £12000 ish
and looked great , compact easy to heat if running a heat pump, and the possibilty of a bit of solar power ( works for boats), plus a composting toilet.
this is the “good life” , chickens and all.
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So what are the chances that if the 8 homes are denied, all their leases still do not get renewed. What then? Will politicians force the owner to give them a new lease? I hope that the area is given back to the wild.
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@3
It is nothing to do with support for the small people. This is simply down to the fact that a land owner has the right to do (within reason) whatever he likes with his land.
Under what circumstance is it fair to insist that these people are allowed to continue living on his land?! Basically, you are supporting squatters, if, as he is entitled to do, he does not renew their lease.
I would also be delighted to know who the “many” that would like to live like this are! Do you? I think probably not. I am assuming (dangerous thing to do, I know) that you were looking at a holiday home in France, a different prospect altogether.
This really isn’t newsworthy, it has no more interest than the owner of a flat not wishing to renew a lease to a tenant. These people CHOOSE to live there, they do not have the RIGHT to do so.
If they own the caravans but not the land then I’m sure the land owner will allow them to remove them and buy their own land to put them on. It will save him having to have them demolished when they are abandoned.
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Green zone, unspoilt, beautiful. We don’t want houses there. The caravans look excellent and they can be moved if necessary. Houses can’t and there will be extensions etc. It is an awful thought. please no.
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It can be both a clear area for natural habitat and have small chalets on it. It’s lovely as it is.
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It is the owners right to build. Exactly right Chris. Why are there places on there now if it is a green zone?
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Rightly or wrongly it is the owners right to submit a Planning application and the precedent has already been set. Whether or not the current structures are temporary, they have received planning permission and therefore I would imagine could be relaced with a permanent structure of at least similar size.
I am shocked in this day and age there are people willing to spend their life savings on a building, situated on land they do not own.
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I think the owners must be posting on here. I know many people who think this caravan site shouldn’t be allowed anymore as its an eyesore.
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if this is a green zone then the sheds should be removed and the place cleaned up.its like a dump with old cars and run down sheds . there was raw sewage running in to the pond a few years back.to call them caravans is a joke as not one of them could be towed safely on the road. health and safety should look at the risk to public health and also look at the fire risk to the area .
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Perhaps to make their dwellings fit in with the surrounding flora and keep everybody happy they should build these people giant synthetic Mushrooms to live in?
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D mc S and tracey. Do you live in caravans? I bet your houses were a blight on the landscape when they were built.
Unless you live in a cave, your points are irrelevant.
The owners have the right to build.
End of!
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God forbid that someone wants to do something with their own land.
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Well personally I think from the amount of publicity these tenants are giving their situation they should start looking for new digs now.
Because even if the application fails I doubt the Owner of this land is going to be that enthusiastic to renew any further leases from all the attention this story is getting.
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(5) for some a holiday home static
for others affordable housing. there is no squatters rights in jersey.
if there was it would be tent city, on common land.
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Mindful of the restrictions that are imposed on visitors bringing in their caravans, and remember, they have only recently been relaxed, this whole arrangement seems to fall outside of all regulation, be it planning, building regulations, sanitation, etc etc.
May I ask why our elected representatives seen able to offer any support for a group who seem to circumvent a number of regulations which apply to the vast majority ?
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17. warren
I’m sure I read somewhere that Planning had to be obtained each time a dwelling was replaced. I would imagine this strengthens the owners position somewhat.
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If I were the owner of this land I would start evicting now. Obviously these people have no sense or reality.
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this dwelling place has been around since the 1930,s long before the island sold its soul for money.
and (have not looked into it) may well fall into the pre 1947 law.
the caravan laws i think date from the swinging sixties . quaint old stuff jersey law.
if you own a caravan these days you have to practicaly bury it underground. lol.
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Why don’t they all re-locate down Bellozanne? From the state of some of these Caravans I doubt they will look out of place.
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Where is Ouaisne ?????
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if they can stay does that mean i can go and buy a shed at b&q and ask some farmer say on the north coast and live ? hey what about the ring road at st john and i can watch the go carts .i could get two sheds and have a lodger ,i got it sussed .anyone want to be my lodger ?
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Sorry but I have little sympathy for the ‘caravan’ owners. As others have stated this site is an eyesore. The caravan owners rent/lease a bit of someone elses property. They must be aware that the owner has the right to not renew that agreement?
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the site is not an eyesore,most people dont even realise it exists and the majority of residents have no other option of buying property.
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ian (21) bellozane , good place, it is where jerseys famous “coach dweller” parked up in the valley( old covernants and all)
sideline(23).
remember the teenagers of stjohn , who built a shanty town on the coast, did grandpa pass on a old unknown bit of jersey law , in jersey french, that allows the use of common land as a dwelling place?
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8 houses ?! Why not an estate? Or better still 40 one and two bedroom flats.
Are there any other similar communities that could be ‘enhanced’?
The wasteland at Ouasine is just that a waste why not go the whole hog and build a waterpark, casino, tescos and golf course. Once finished perhaps land could be reclaimed to create additional facilities.
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this is still essentially a non event. However much of an eyesore or otherwise the site is, they do not own the land. They must be entitled to keep the caravans and find an alternative site.
Perhaps one of the people who has expressed their support could find some space in their gardens? They could take one each.
Its still just a basic fact that the land owner has the right to use his land as he sees fit.
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24. God’s mentor
I’m sure that has already been done – I remember reading about a Polish tramp who died after living on a roudabout for 40+ years and left a fortune as he had never claimed his pension.
The local Hindus regarded him as a deity and had provided him with food and cigarettes.
If you grow a beard you may be able to forget about GST as well!!
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Sorry that should have been addressed to sideline
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‘Its still just a basic fact that the land owner has the right to use his land as he sees fit.’
Oh yeah? Is this some basic Jersey law that basically nobody else knows about? Or is it basically it yet another ‘basic’ human right that has no basis?
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Cathy ,yes i can grow a beard ,but like all of us i have to pay our taxes .still look-in for a lodger .
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(28) deep.
there is no alternative site , if there is i have not heard of it.
bring it on please , i want to live in a afforable static , with my heatpump and solar panels , composting toilet and a veggie patch.
forgot to add my home made shed for tinkering in.
pure bliss.
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THEY RENT LAND!
LANDOWNER NOT WANT RENT THEM NO MORE!
THEY MUST GO OTHER FIELD NOW!
LANDOWNER NOT OWE THEM NOTHING, HIS LAND, HIM DO WHAT HIM WANT WITH IT!
Just thought i’d spell it out for those who appear to be having problems grasping a VERY simple premise.
Happy New Year.
Love & Hugs.
xxx
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Cathy 24#
You are almost right about the “individual” (or tramp as you label him). This was in Wolverhampton and they could not confirm his nationality for certain. It was I think a larger area than a roundabout, being a long grass strip separating parts of a ring road. I believe therefore that the land belonged to the local council but would have been no use from a commercial angle. That is why they left him alone after a few years of trying to evict him.
He was left food by the Hindu community and there is a Hindu temple located a relatively short distance away.Nice to see someone displaying some humanity – a commodity sadly lacking in most of the people posting on this site. Seems to be a crime not to conform.
Adios campaneros
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This is Green Zone land. The dwellings that are there are just a few caravans and a couple of chalets. The reason they are there is because they have been at this site for more than sixty years, and they subsequently predate any of this green zone policy.
If the planning department defers on the ” Green Zone ” policy, what is to stop any other part of the island being built on ? a house or Ten on Portelet common prehaps ?
What is wrong with what is there ? The residents look after the nature right next to the pond, they do not disturb anybody.
If developers move in there, say good bye to the Agile Frog, say Good bye to the rest of the natural enviroment around the island, because it will be proof to developers they will be able to build in future where they want. Mark my words.
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Tenants do have rights
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37. Their rights will be set out in their lease or rental agreement. Once this ends, they have no rights and I am sure they would have been aware of this – see comment 34
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Tenants have rights beyond a rental agreement. See comment 36
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Ignorance about the situation. See comments 34 and 38. no houses should be built there
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The caravans and pretty chalets are a huge improvement over 8 houses
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Tenants have big rights against viction
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@31 C Le Verdic
I at no point mentioned anything to do with Human Rights. If you read my post you will see this. Nor did I refer to “law”. My point was, and still is, that the landowner is not obliged to provide a site for these caravans. The land is leased from him, and leases run out. A fact that the owners of the caravans will have known when they chose this lifestyle. As far as their human rights, they have the right to a home, that the States will provide them should the landowner not wish to renew leases. Their human rights are not being contravened.
@small money
Just because there is no alternative site does not mean this landowner should be made to provide one.
I have not got a helicotper so anyone who has should now be legally obliged to let me use theirs.
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classic ignorance of law at 38
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Tenants would have substantial rights see comment 37
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I don’t really see (on reflection) what helicopters have to do with anything. Just because a lease runs out does not mean that the tenants have no rights, nor does it give a licence to the freeholder to ruin a green zone site by putting a housing estate there.
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Deep 943)’I at no point mentioned anything to do with Human Rights. If you read my post you will see this. Nor did I refer to “law”.’
Quite correct, Deep. It was me who introduced ‘law’ and ‘human rights’. It’s what’s called progression or elaboration, if you like. Prompted by the quote which I duly attributed to you, which read:
‘Its still just a basic fact that the land owner has the right to use his land as he sees fit.’
You now say:
‘My point was, and still is, that the landowner is not obliged to provide a site for these caravans’
Not quite the same!
By the way, I was merely playing around with the word ‘basic’, basically.
For the record, I have always been fascinated that a group of caravan dwellers has existed all this time in Jersey and within reason, wish that similar dwellings could be allowed in other parts of the island.
Caravans and park homes don’t all have to be white and stick out like sore thumbs even though that appears to be acceptable for many ‘iconic’ houses.
Maybe this issue will get people thinking about alternative forms of housing in Jersey.
Now that should unleash a few indignant nimby replies!
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Good for these politicians. We need to stop this island wrecking now
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It’s true I guess. The law must count for something. Let’s hope that this lifestyle can be preserved. We see far too little of it in Jersey as it is so I hope they do get the law behind them
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To all the people saying the current tenants have rights, of course they do, whatever rights were laid out in their original lease agreement! As long as the landowner is not breaching this agreement, he is entitled to evict them… Obviously!!!
You are surely not saying that he should HAVE to continue leasing the land to them simply because historically he has?!?! Thats mental!
What about the “rights” of the landowner? And i’m not saying houses should be built on the site instead, i don’t really care, but he should at least be allowed to investigate his options without being hunted for crimes against humanity!
Gotta say it sounds remarkably like sour grapes as usual, someone has land, therefore money, ergo he MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO MAKE ANY MORE, because i have none!
Gotta Laugh.
Love & Hugs.
xxx
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This gives me great hope.
I currently rent a house and have been very happy living their for the past 4 years. Unfortunatelky the owner is returning to the island in October 2011 and as told me that when my lease expires in September it will not be up for renewal. Apparently the owner and his family wish to move back in to their own home.
I, however really like the house, so I am going to refuse to move out and demand that he continues to let me live there.
Please could someone tell me which politicians are supporting the Ouaisne residents as I wish to contact them for their support also.
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47. It is unlikely that other sites will be forthcoming for caravans in Jersey. This site in old and an anomally.
Much of the land is Jersey is owned by wealthy people who have bought it near their houses to prevent it being built on. Other land is used for farming.
If you have a £5 million house you are unlikely to want a bunch of mobile homes parked on your land!
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Many have said that the current tenants have rights, but apart from their rights contained in the leases (which will end when the leases expire), no one has specified any additional rights they have.(any rights not legally enforcable are worthless)
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deep, i did not say that the land owner should provide the alternative site.
you have problems with the heicopter?
my hovercraft is full of eels.
(47) c le verdic, agree, more of this type of affordable housing should be around, but nodoubt the ground rent would hike the price up.
plus the nimbys would be out in force.
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35. Bandiera Rossa
I watched a programme called Heir Hunters one evening (sorry- this was where the “labels” tramp, roundabout came from). He was Polish. Apparently he had arrived in the UK with his wife and after she left (departed or died?) he moved to the grass strip. They traced his family back to Poland. The family all thought he had died years ago and split (I think) over £60,000 between his brothers and sisters and their heirs.
Strange ending to a strange story.
It’s a pity that the humanity which you rightly spoke of wasn’t rewarded by leaving the money to people in similar circumstances.
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I am surprised that no politician has come up with the stupid suggestion that the states should buy the land and then rent it to the current occupiers on along term baisi.
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Tenants have various rights in addition to those set out in a lease. Particularly domestic tenants. The law exists to prevent landlords trying to impose onerous terms. There may also be other rights depending upon what the tenants may have been led to believe. I expect the tenants and their political saviours will know this. That’s all that matters.
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So No 57. What rights will the current tenants have after their leases end?
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A few more trailer parks could be a valuable addition to Jersey’s housing stock.
Owning the freehold of land does not give unlimited rights as to what one may do with it, nor does it absolve one of all legal and moral responsibility towards other stakeholders, be they neighbours, tenants or even passing trespassers.
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The tenants will enjoy a number of rights which will be known to the respective legal advisers. It’s brilliant.
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Good comment at 59; instead of these people getting thrown off, perhaps we should applaud their quiet example and make some more parks elsewhere in the island. Jersey needs to get back to its roots and lose some of this cosmopolitan greed
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In the uk a farmer found a load of gypsie’s in one of his fields so he drove through it with the muck spreader,,, whats to stop the landowner from doing this after he has refused to renew their leases????
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Thats great no 60. It can all be sorted out in court then. I don’t know what all the fuss is about and why politicians are getting involved.
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About ten years ago, while on my way to Jersey, I stayed in a lovely timber clad prefabricated ‘Park Home’ standing in its own garden plot with plenty of parking not far from Lymington in the New Forest.
It was erected on the land of another dwelling (as opposed to in a caravan park), a situation comparable to many potential locations in the rural parts of Jersey.
I thought “What a shame that a cottage like this would never be allowed in Jersey, it would blend in unobtrusively, be well insulated and energy efficient and more than adequate for a retired couple”.
Absolutely no chance. Nothing like enough opportunity for all the big fish in the feeding chain to make a killing.
No point in even dreaming.
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The tenants have big rights. Political intervention helps constituents assert rights. This is representation true.
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Compulsory purchase is the best idea. Someone above suggests this. Then the land would be preserved as an outstanding area of wildlife beauty and the little people could stay in their homes.
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The tenants enjoy rights at law
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