Two elder statesmen attack States reforms
Tuesday 25th January 2011, 2:59PM GMT.
Former Senator Pierre Horsfall
CUTTING four Senatorial seats opens ‘a dangerous door’ to criticism from the UK government, according to one of Jersey’s elder statesmen.
The planned removal of four of the 12 seats over the next four years, undermining the proportion of Islandwide representation in the States make-up and shifting the balance of power towards Deputies with lower levels of electoral support, has been described as ‘a blow against democracy’ by former Senators Pierre Horsfall and Dick Shenton, who have both come out strongly against the change.
The States voted last week by 28 to 21 to maintain their earlier decision to cut two Senatorial seats at this year’s election and another two in three years’ time.
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Common sense. Cut Deputies and Constables, not Senators.
But as we all know, ‘Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas’.
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It doesn’t take much to realise Senators have an island mandate and as such should be the only ones to head departments
Constables have a parochial mandate and head an infrastructure that knows what is going on their parishes so are able represent and actually do something (probably the hardest job of the lot they have to actually do something which is why there are not many candidates for the job)
Deputies, they seem to just have a free ride, that’s where the cuts should be
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Best news for a long time to come out of the States, to cut two Senatorial seats at this year’s election, it a shame that all four seat are not to be cut at the same time, instead of the other two to be cut in three years’ time.
Look at the savings perhaps now a little more money will be spent on Pensioners and the less well off of the Island.
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See this man think of WEB. What does he know, bottom line there a far too many states members, now all the constables should go, they vote on Island wide issues with the fewest votes to mandate them. Then half the deputies, and we would be better of with 24 members. Thanks you very much.
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Only Senators with an island wide mandate should be Ministers.
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Here are the voting records. It makes for slightly confused reading. There is a bit of right v left or progressive v regressive splits, obviously quite a deputy v senator split, but even here there are a few anomalies. My guesses are that things are a little more complicated than the newspaper is reporting. Maybe things are being voted for/against as this will prevent/facilitate the possibility of something better/worse. Hope they eventually get around to removing the constables and creating some form of proportional representation.
Unfortunately voting statistics don’t show if there are any side-issues, and we don’t know what is being planned by states members as an alternative. I guess you need to listen to the speeches to know why people voted the way they did. But here they are anyway.
POUR: 21 (taking it back up to 6) CONTRE: 28 ABSTAINED: 1 ILL: 1 EN DEFAUT: 1 NOT PRESENT: 1
Senator Terence Augustine Le Sueur
POUR
Senator Paul Francis Routier
EN DEFAUT
Senator Philip Francis Cyril Ozouf
POUR
Senator Terence John Le Main
POUR
Senator Ben Edward Shenton
POUR
Senator Frederick Ellyer Cohen
POUR
Senator James Leslie Perchard
POUR
Senator Alan Breckon
CONTRE
Senator Sarah Craig Ferguson
POUR
Senator Alan John Henry Maclean
POUR
Senator Bryan Ian Le Marquand
CONTRE
Senator Francis du Heaume Le Gresley, M.B.E.
CONTRE
Connétable Kenneth Priaulx Vibert
POUR
Connétable Alan Simon Crowcroft
CONTRE
Connétable John Le Sueur Gallichan
POUR
Connétable Daniel Joseph Murphy
ILL
Connétable Michael Keith Jackson
POUR
Connétable Silvanus Arthur Yates
POUR
Connétable Graeme Frank Butcher
POUR
Connétable Peter Frederick Maurice Hanning
CONTRE
Connétable Leonard Norman
POUR
Connétable John Martin Refault
POUR
Connétable Deidre Wendy Mezbourian
POUR
Connétable Juliette Gallichan
CONTRE
Deputy Robert Charles Duhamel
ABSTAINED
Deputy Frederick John Hill, B.E.M.
CONTRE
Deputy Roy George Le Hérissier
CONTRE
Deputy John Benjamin Fox
CONTRE
Deputy Judith Ann Martin
CONTRE
Deputy Geoffrey Peter Southern
CONTRE
Deputy James Gordon Reed
CONTRE
Deputy Carolyn Fiona Labey
POUR
Deputy Collin Hedley Egré
CONTRE
Deputy Jacqueline Ann Hilton
CONTRE
Deputy Paul Vincent Francis Le Claire
CONTRE
Deputy John Alexander Nicholas Le Fondré
CONTRE
Deputy Anne Enid Pryke
POUR
Deputy Sean Power
CONTRE
Deputy Shona Pitman
CONTRE
Deputy Kevin Charles Lewis
CONTRE
Deputy Ian Joseph Gorst
POUR
Deputy Philip John Rondel
NOT PRESENT
Deputy Montfort Tadier
CONTRE
Deputy Angela Elizabeth Jeune
CONTRE
Deputy Daniel John Arabin Wimberley
POUR
Deputy Trevor Mark Pitman
CONTRE
Deputy Anne Teresa Dupre
CONTRE
Deputy Edward James Noel
POUR
Deputy Tracey Anne Vallois
CONTRE
Deputy Michael Roderick Higgins
CONTRE
Deputy Andrew Kenneth Francis Green M.B.E.
CONTRE
Deputy Deborah Jane De Sousa
CONTRE
Deputy Jeremy Martin Maçon
CONTRE
Regarding the debate:
Get an independent commission to sort this out and then trust them when they say that we are getting it oh so wrong. Put the best interests of us lot at heart rather than your own, or your mates.
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It is not exactly rocket science is it. People should be elected to represent all the resident of Jersey with an island wide vote not get in with a couple of hundred votes as we have seen with Southern, the Pitmans, Tadier and Macon. Their only interest is appealing to the small section of the population they feel with re-elect them. Also if someone runs for Senator and fails to get elected, as with Southern, they should not be allowed to be elect by the back door route of deputy with just a few hundred and that really sums up the need for it to be compulsory for ALL states members to be elected on a island wide vote. Hopefully this will get rid of likes of the Pitmans, Tadier, Macon and Southern who are clearly not up to the job. I was listening to Ms Pitman on Talkback and several times she even lost track of her own conversation. And the likes of Southern and Tadier are a danger to financial future of our Island. Perhaps Tadier and Macon should stick to monitoring how many soft drinks are consumed and how many members are absent during sittings.
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fine picture in the jep, of mr h shaking hands with blair, hmmmm.
the word is CLOTHIER!.
even the insitute of directors are moaning about the condition of our goverment(mr drinkwater)its not just the ordinary people.
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I am so, so angry at the fact that 2 senatorial seats are being cut. We should have more candidiates with an Island wide mandate. I cannot believe that the idiots who managed to get a £40k+ pa job on the back of a couple of hundred votes have been able to do this. We need to get rid of the Pitmans, Southern and Tadier and their ilk before they bring the Island to its knees.
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“I cannot believe that the idiots who managed to get a £40k+ pa job on the back of a couple of hundred votes have been able to do this.”
And the Constables who were elected with no votes at all, got a job that paid £40K+ and voted for this measure?
How do you judge them?
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Horse S++t did enough damage in his own right
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Pip connetables get paid more the rest and can get in on 0 votes! They get an allowance for their parish work and an office to work from unlike the deputies.
I judge them as surplus to requirements in a modern day democracy along with unelected members like a CoE dean.
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I don’t see how cutting a few job will help the recovery of millions.
6,12 or 24 idiots in one room doesn’t seems to make a difference… you
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