New call for Committee of Inquiry
Thursday 3rd February 2011, 2:59PM GMT.
Former deputy police chief Lenny Harper
THE Council of Ministers could be forced to reconsider their decision not to hold a Committee of Inquiry into the historical abuse investigation.
Senator Francis Le Gresley has lodged a proposition calling for a debate on the issue.
Meanwhile, former deputy police chief Lenny Harper says that by not holding an inquiry, Jersey would lose the opportunity to expose the ‘full extent of the brutalities’ inflicted at Haut de la Garenne, the former children’s home.
The man who headed the historical child abuse inquiry has reacted to Wednesday’s announcement by Chief Minister Terry Le Sueur that there will not be a committee of inquiry.
In a letter to the editor in today’s Jersey Evening Post, the now retired police officer said: ‘Such a committee would have seen the trickle of truth turn into a torrent and the full extent of the brutalities inflicted on the victims as well as the lengths gone to in attempts to cover it up would have been exposed for the world to see.’
• Full report in today’s Jersey Evening Post
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I am surprised this Lenny Harper still thinks he has a part to play in Jersey police matters. Frankly though I think his behaviour to date and refusal to bring back day books has been nothing but disgraceful and no way qualified to pass any further comment or be taken seriously.
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We have had a lengthy police enquiry and who could be better placed to enquire but the police.
This is prolonging the agony for all involved including the taxpayer
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The full extent of brutalities? If people need to know what they are they should have attended the court case of the Jordans. What is this man on about now and when is your paper going to stop allowing him a soap box to attack the Island I love so much and was raised in?
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Too right too. A huge public scandle, senior police officer suspended without charge, millions of pounds wasted.. Is that the ‘Jersey Way’. I hope not.
Too many politicians running scared in my view.
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Sure but why don’t we have a Committee of Enquiry into Mr Harper’s Police work as well including the findings of Wiltshire?
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Good on you Mr LE Gresley…..let there be light..time Jersey grew up and put up…..it would be an action well worth it…..cna’t go on like this allowing secrecy….it’s 2011 for goodness sake,we are supposed to be a modern society.
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Thank you Lenny Harper for adding your voice to the abuse survivors who are calling for an independant enquiry.
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It’s absolutely sickening what they have done, trying to put a kibosh on the investigation with just a sniveling little statement “Terry Le Sueur said that no significant issues remained that needed to be examined.”.
Says who? I don’t think he’s qualified to make this call nor in a position to considering it very likely will show the administration of which is he head in an appalling light.
I would say we’d be better off running from the judgment of perhaps the man who ran the investigation or one of the victims to really see if now if the right time to ‘draw a line’.
Still, no need to consult Mystic Meg to see how the beloved council will vote if they do have to reconsider.
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I think that we need an enquiry into Lenny Harper and Stuart Syvrets’s motives. Was this some kind of clumsy attempt at regime change? Did he really have the “victims” interests at heart? if so, why didn’t he come back and give evidence at the trials or produce the “books”?
Why does now sit and snipe from the wings when he had the chance to conduct a professional investigation in the first place?
Horror? He believes his own spin. If there was a torrent of brutalities, where are the prosecutions? Why were so many allegations throw out of court or dismissed?
It’s about time he shut up and got on with his retirement which was so important that he ran off and abandoned the investigation part-way through.
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Terry the “dictator” we know whats happening to those in the middle east @ the moment that quash open government.It all takes time but happens eventually one way or another the truth that is.
Well done Sen. Le Gresley didn’t vote for you last time but certainly will this year a voice of reason.
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The Enquiry needed is how Harper was allowed to totally miss-inform the worlds media of the findings as they came up at the former childrens home! This was ”abuse of the island of Jersey” and something I still fail to understand how he was not held back from doing until forensic clarification was gained ! Harper’s whole attitude within the Police is one that very few officers will speak well of, and sadly he has the last laugh on the tax payer who will be contributing to his pension for many years ahead. The report from Det Supt Mick Gradwell shows how he repeatedly misled both the media and the island’s government, and made a series of statements that proved to be inaccurate and false, so how this man has the cheek to comment on and get involved once again escapes me and i am sure many other islands alike !
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I would support such a thing if I believed something would come out of it. Sadly though I do not think Lenny Harper’s track record with this investigation is that much to shout about so his vies are neither here nor there.
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There is no justifiable reason that the promise of a committee of enquiry should be broken.
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And to what good would a enquiry be the terms would only be changed to make certain the cover ups continue. Time the Privy Council stepped in to sort this out trusting the House of fools we call a goverment to find the truth is never going to happen.
This is going to destroy the Island if it is allowed to continue the cost now is high but it is nothing to the cost that will be paid if this abscess is not lanced.
If the Privy Council will not act then we need to raise a petition to the EU to investigate as per our passports we are I would think the majority British Citizens. No disrespect to the other nationals who have made Jersey home many of whom are European citizens also, some of us with differing rights but citizens of europe never the less.
Then we can all accept the outcome as being true and inderpendint, I do fear that it will find things that we will all sooner not know but lance this abscess we must.
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This is being watched by many near and far…we must be seen to be open if we are to be believed or we will have totally convinced the world that there is much here that it is being hidden….and as for Crapaud at 9 you are so determined in your clearly driven bias it is worrying….”where are the prosecutions you scream” that is the whole point many believe they were stifled, why would Harper be bothered that what has been a trickle of information turn into a torrent if allowed….what possible motive could he now have he’ retired…doesn’t weigh up at all,the chief minister wants this shut up like he wanted Sean Power to stand down for “Personal” reasons…really it is all so obvious which is why such important issues should be dealt with Openly and honestly something the Establishment fear like Dracula fears the light.
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Mr Harper never had anything sensible or coherent to say when he was working here. We’ve established since he left that nothing ever happened at Haute De La Garenne, all we’ve achieved is a multi million pound black hole in our finances. Please don’t waste any more of our money, he threw enough of it down a hole in St Martins.
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The true horror of this is that a police officer was given a blank cheque and told to investigate these allegations but instead goes off on a wild spending spree of first class flights, staying at the best hotels and wining and dining with celebrities at top restaurants around the world. Now 12 million pounds later St. Lenny is asking to start the investigation again? Just what part of “Jersey and no more money to waste” do these people not understand?
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Crapaud – with such a level of misinformation in your post, I’m almost inclined to believe it’s not just stemmed from pure ignorance!
Why would they want a regime change for a start? If you don’t think it’s the victims they have at heart, then would you care to suggest what you think they might gain from this?
Did you even read Harper’s post on Syvret’s blog which has a true, accurate account instead of the drivel some of the local media peddled, pooh-poohing the investigation? Look it up.
The ‘book’ that you refer to is a joke, not unlike the utter lie that was the ‘coconut shell’ claim. Also all documented out there and rebutted with evidence if you care to put the time in to even read up on it.
Why are there no prosecutions?! That’s what they’re asking!
If you honestly believe your statement and you’re not just trolling, then seriously, I’ve been shocked by the level of naivety of some on this island. Wow.
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Now come on, all this ex copper’s views do is create hysteria with a hand full of bloggers who dwell on conspiracy and use unproven hearsay against the Government.
To the rest of the real thinking world who work for a living, have actual families and are concerned about umpteen other things happening in Jersey this is old news.
Another comment made by the CM is that it dates back as far as 50 years and its wasted enough tax payers money already. Well he is spot on because it has and HDLG was closed over 20 years ago now and a lot of people in know are now dead.
Quote “This is being watched by near and far”.
These unprovable, childish, attention seeking comments we read regularly by some people on the Net are tiresome, boring and farcical.
No the COM are right, there is no more that can be done now.
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How ironic the vast majority of us want the same thing the Truth some are clearly supporters of the C.O.M others the Survivors and some I think just the plain truth. A few are just worried about the money being spent to those I would say the finance industry like it or not works on trust and stability the continuing allegations are destroying that.
Cant we put the politics aside and work to getting the truth or it will continue festering to the detriment of us all, and Jersey will be destroyed. The C.O.M keep saying that nothing serious happened but something did happen and the truth about what happened needs to be exposed and in a way that can be believed and accepted by all.
As per my previous post that can be only obtained by a truly independent enquiry with only one term of reference the TRUTH.
.
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sanity @17
money should never stand in the way of justice,
if you were a victim how much would you value justice at ?
Truthseeker is right , openess is clearly needed here at whatever the cost and as heor she also states what vested interest does a retired police officer have,
if he did make so many blunders would he be saying that we need an inquiry when he would be centre stage i think not.
is this yet another thing to be swept under the carpet.
Another point is why is it called “historic” child abuse is this more spin to make it sound not that bad??
amazing what a well placed word can do to a sentence especially when the public are so gullible
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This has nothing to do with the finance industry, sorry thats another unrelated statement of desperation. This is going to debate in the house so why not wait?
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18. Loco
So if it was on Syvrets blog, it Must be true then ?? He he.
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Why does this ex-copper always talk like he’s on a political platform?
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Sorry, but why are there still people out there who don’t recognise that this is a call from someone who disgraced the investigation the Police and the Island. The ‘Coconut Cop’ trashed the way this weas handled, spent huge amounts of money on dubious trips, chauffeur and expenses and then ran off to Scotalnd, refusing to come back.
His credibility was low enough before he dug even further. How can anyone take him seriously.
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How many times do people have to go through the same information over and over again to only conclude the same findings and in doing so waste more cash thatthe rest of us will have to pay?
Is there something missing from this enquiry because if there are maybe its time these people ‘in the know’ saved everybody time and money and filled in the gaps immediately?
To say this enquiry needs unencryption is an understatement.
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I hope that a public enquiry takes place.
I hope that it is truly independant.
I hope that all the interested parties are involved in drawing up the terms of reference, especially the Care Leavers Association.
I hope that no slack/incompetent/devious civil servant ‘accidently’ loses any part of those terms of reference.
I hope that no party is permitted to wriggle free of participating in the enquiry.
I hope that the soft underbelly of the truth is exposed and those who are in any way responsible accept those responsibilities or are forced to face them.
I hope that we can then start healing.
I won’t hold my breath but I live in hope.
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It would seem that the worst ‘Policeman’ ever to ruin to the States of Jersey Police Service, just wont let this issue die. If he’d spent less time persecuting good Police Officers and more time letting those who knew how to investigate crime do their job he might have actually got past the coconut skull and bed spring shackles……Oh and he might not have very nearly got most of his firearms team (who did know what they were doing) from getting seriously injured in Grands Vaux
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To all “Daily Mail Readers” and the like :
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6241652.ece
contains many interesting paragraphs, one being:
“I had written in detail about the child-abuse inquiry last year. I had never given much credence to the more lurid tales of possible homicides, mainly because I had been counselled against them by Lenny Harper. There were no missing children, he said, clearly and often, and there was no evidence of murder. I knew, too, that Harper believed he was engaged in a struggle with vested interests among Jersey’s ruling elite, who were trying to undermine the inquiry and would rather the whole thing went away. It soon became apparent that allegations of abuse were widespread throughout the Jersey childcare system and had been around for years, but only a handful of the most blatant cases had ever reached court. ”
The media does like a feeding frenzy but the man that the Times describes as “Britain’s foremost crime writer” asserts that far from whipping it up Harper was in fact calming it down.
Harper’s media appearances at the time did seem a little odd, but on reading the ACPO reports this appears to have been part of a (ACPO overseen) media strategy which was intended to bring forward understandably distrustful witnesses. It seems to have been very successful in this though it is likely that there are still a number who did not come forward out of fear and a wish not to rake over a deeply damaging past. I know of other witnesses who did not come forward because they had committed suicide in the preceding years ! May they rest in peace and may they one day see some sort of justice.
The media attention was probably one of the few things protecting the investigation from interference. I think Harper’s later media appearances (e.g. the teeth) were done when he sensed that some of the bottom feeders were growing bold enough to slither out from under the stones!
And it does seems that the “tooth fairy” liked to collect teeth before they had actually fallen out !
The easy thing for Harper to do is to enjoy his retirement.
Of course there are some who will not thank him for his continued interest in our island.
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Kev – “These unprovable etc comments…”
How do you know that they are unprovable? Unless they are challenged properly.
There are real people involved here, injured people. And, for the record, I am not talking about Harper, Power, Syvret, Belwood or anyone else who has been fighting their corner.
The Jersey Care Leavers Association is full of real people still struggling to deal with abuse that they suffered while under the care of the Jersey government.
Or do you think that they have all just made it up? Invented everything?
Some cases have made it to court, all those that have, have resulted in convictions (and, by the way, very one of those were investigated by Harper’s team)
The vast majority of cases however have not been taken to court for one reason or another.
That is not to say that these suspects were innocent, only that the AG did not feel that that it was in the public interest to prosecute them. After all, there must have been some evidence there for the file to even be put before the AG for consideration. It is however a big hurdle in proving something to the criminal standard, particularly historical cases.
Until the wound is completely cleaned out and treated it will continue to fester and never heal. Those who might be innocent in all this, but unfairly blamed by ‘unproven hearsay’ will forever carry the weight of suspicion. Conspiracy theories will continue to be nurtured and gossip will thrive.
A full, thorough and independant enquiry, inclusive and involving all interested parties is, in my humble opinion, the only way we will ever be able to put this sorry saga to bed.
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I have been reading local blogs good and bad since 2008 from a distance.
Only around three percent of people that read online information contribute.
The good news is that that the JEP and other internet forums and blogs are getting appreciably more readers with each passing week.
Regarding Mr Harpers personal letters, and Mr Power’s Royal court affidavit and even the Carswell and Verita reports, they can all be read on line, in unambiguous words they make good reading and offer balance.
If I may be allowed to comment regarding an observation regarding the comments, in my opinion, comments from posters like truthseeker, noah,Steve, Candida Albicans and Graham Mathews and others who clearly take advantage of, and read alternative internet information and are informed, and thus formed an opinion that the whole truth has been sidestepped.
Other posters probably new to the internet information highway, are caring and well meaning, but really should look up other sites and media to gain a wider perspective.
Of course, the classic trolls are clearly evident, and like mosquitoes part of life. They tend to write one or two liners, add nothing, but criticise views which are opposite or different from the official Government spin. Its not about information for them its about distraction and spoiling.
The Government does after all spend money on a PR department. It is a fact they also have access to the internet using pen names.
I as with other many people reading the remits from several reports in recent history have concluded, that they are timid and weak and not fit for purpose. Reg’s Skips ( available online )is excellent.
This being the case one has to ask the question what are some members of the States afraid of………………… the truth ?
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Maybe those on here slagging off Lenny Harper should attend a Jersey Care Leavers Association meeting and repeat their comments to them?
I believe there will be court cases arising from this and if compensation is agreed then this is an admission of guilt to me.
As per blogs thay seem to be getting their teeth into things instead of glossing over the surface. I know which sources I trust.
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Adrian we await Mr Syvret’s repeats of the facts on a national recorded media station but we wait with baited breath.
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The degree of proof or evidence required for a Civil Court case is considerably less than it is for a criminal case….so if the States do decide to payout its not necessarily an admission of guilt but the best option for the tax payer. It a shame that some (not all)’victims’ are more interested in compensation than convictions.
Its also a well known fact that the States aren’t to worried about compensation claims as a large percentage of claimants are through no fault of their own ‘on welfare’ and their welfare will be reduced accordingly….its a no win situation.
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28.Bergerac Dundee…..well said, a former V.L.M.S. (victim of Lenny’s ‘management’ style) I suspect?
Grand Vaux firearms incident…example of an imported senior officer not knowing what he was doing (just like HDLG!)…but having the rank and requisite bullying abilities.
Never has a senior officer in the SOJP bullied so many, achieved so little, spent so much, been so ill qualified to run a serious large investigation,and thought so highly of himself.
Have a massive ego by all means but not to the detriment of the victims and the Jersey tax payers.
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I think Charlie (comment 3) really sums it up for me-Charlie sees Lenny Harper as someone who is “attacking the island he loves so much”Charlie is probably typical of so many Jersey people (like Frank Walker)who would rather anything bad be ignored or hushed up for fear of spoiling the reputation of Perfect Jersey where the sun always shines and everyone is happy and rich!Jersey is like anywhere else on the planet- bad things can happen there as they can anywhere as unfortunately evil people aren’t confined to dark cities or remote places.I still clearly remember a little girl being murdered not a mile from our home when I was growing up in Jersey and yet the picture is always painted that it is a safe place for children- it didn’t feel safe for me at that time I can tell you.It is time Lenny Harper is given the proper opportunity to answer his critics and put people fully in the picture and a proper inquiry to be held.
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re Lenny HARPER
“The easy thing for Harper to do is to enjoy his retirement”
Exactly & Mr Power, so why do they fight on when could just take the pension & walk away?
Well done EP online some balanced comments being printed that show so well read commentators.
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““The easy thing for Harper to do is to enjoy his retirement”
Exactly & Mr Power, so why do they fight on when could just take the pension & walk away?”
I haven’t kept up to speed with this story so don’t know the full details. What I do know, however, is that any suggestion of child abuse and there is a long history of policemen losing all sense of proportion. This was seen most obviously in the Orkney Satanic abuse inquiry, where a number of children were taken from their families for up to seven years because: well, because the police were taken in by experts who had a theory, and after that everything was seen in terms of abusers, abuse-deniers or people on the side of the police. A bit like The Crucible, to be honest.
Child abuse is so horrific people who are involved in stopping it do so with a missionary zeal. When they should act professionally.
In the end, Harper went on national TV and said a coconut shell was a child’s skull, that a basement was a cellar, and that there were loads of teeth found. Syvret went on national TV saying he feared children had died there. None of that helped bring anyone to justice. It was a waste of time and money, it potentially fatally prejudiced the chances of a fair trial, it was amateurish in the extreme.
You can want to stop child abuse and want to bring offenders to justice without abandoning basic standards of professionalism. Indeed, it is when the zeal for justice replaces the urge to to a job quietly and properly that injustice – such as occurred in Orkney – is most likely to arise.
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@Pond #37 “Harper went on national TV and said a coconut shell was a child’s skull, that a basement was a cellar, and that there were loads of teeth found. Syvret went on national TV saying he feared children had died there.”
Having read many of your posts on other subjects I had assumed that you were a relatively intelligent person, capable of seeing the wider picture. I was wrong. You have evidently been sucked into the troll-swap and are now reguritating innacuracies and clearly oblivious to the content of official reports published elsewhere. This is exactly why we need an enquiry – because of people like you.
In short,
1. Mr Harper said that the item found, which contained collagen (not found in coconuts) had been identified by scientists as possibly from a childs skull. The ‘coconut’ reference was made by a junior lab assistant, not a scientist. Importantly, it was noted that by the time it been returned from Kew Gardens, it had changed shape, size and colour. Tell me Pond, how come this ‘cocnut’ contained a substance only found in mammals? How did it’s appearance change so much?
2. Basement/cellar – Your point is? The police have numerous accounts of this room under the floor. Deputy Kevin Lewis assisted the police in finding it. Chose to call it what you will, the witnesses know what they call it.
3. There were loads of teeth found. 60+ in fact. Some of them had not come out naturally, or before death, according to forensic scientists. Tell me Pond, why would someone want to pull out teeth from a dead child?
4. ‘Syvret feared that children had died there.’ I suppose when the forensic scientists find a large number of human bones, which were ‘fresh and fleshed when they were burned’ – including a child’s femur, it is not unnatural to fear that children might have been killed there. Tell me Pond, why would anyone want to burn children’s bones at the site? Did the child’s leg fall off naturally do you think?
5. A waste of time! Give me strength. What would you have rather done, ignored the discoveries?
You are apparently a lawyer yourself. Please let us know what practice you work for so that we can avoid it!
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“5. A waste of time! Give me strength. What would you have rather done, ignored the discoveries?”
No, but that, ironically, is what ended up happening. Because through rank amateur behaviour, the issue became one of PR management rather than police investigation. And that was Lenny’s direct call.
I would have investigated all findings properly and thoroughly. It is worth remembering, the alleged offences took place a long time ago. I simply do not understand why we needed day by day press conferences into what may or may not have been found on that day.
It’s not like it was a murder case with suspects on the run. How much better it would have been if Harper had kept his mouth shut until he knew whether the object that had been found was a coconut or a child’s skull. Instead, he began the inquiry from a position of speculation, rather than fact, when he had no reason to do so.
Remember: there are records of all of the people who spent time a HDLG. You don’t need to go on Newsnight suggesting there was mass murder in order to alert people who may have evidence to the investigation.
Or are you saying that frequent lunches with journlists from News of the World was not a “waste of money”? Because I don’t see the connection between cosying up to journalists on a paper renowned for sensationalist reporting and bringing child abusers to justice.
Talleyrand, one of the great figures of government, once said “Above all, not too much zeal”. That was the problem here: too much zeal.
I have no doubt Harper thought he was doing right. But by acting in haste, he has left everyone else to repent in leisure.
I don’t know enough to comment on whether there should be an inquiry or not. What I object to is the assumption that if a person believes he is trying to uncover justice he is somehow allowed to break all normal professional standards, and that such standards can be presented as an attempt to cover things up.
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“What I object to is the assumption that if a person believes he is trying to uncover justice he is somehow allowed to break all normal professional standards, and that such standards can be presented as an attempt to cover things up.”
Interesting point Mr Pond. Firstly, in response, 4 seperate ACPO reports concluded that the enquiry was being run properly and professionaly. It was being overseen and peer reviewed by qualified and experienced police investigators throughout. Almost all recommendations by ACPO were implemented. This is all documented and is not simply rumour, hype or fantasy.
Secondly, it seems that the Royal Court, the Court of Appeal and the Minister for Home Affairs consider it perfectly acceptable that if a person believes he is trying to uncover justice he is somehow allowed to break all normal professional standards – or even the law – when the end justifies the means. Ask Curtis Warren!
It might help your overall understanding of what Mr Harper did/didn’t do, why he did it/didn’t do it etc. to read his own words on the issue.
http://stuartsyvret.blogspot.com/2009/09/lenny-harpers-guest-posting.html
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Hi “Donald Pond” #38( & others – I think that “Haile Unlikely” has the edge on me&you both with rather post #41 & others.
Donald, your posts too included some relevant points and “Haile Unlikely” should perhaps cut you a little slack.
It might be helpful to step back, take an overview, and mention the relevance of HINDSIGHT :
There can be few things in our island’s history that have polarised opinion as much as HDLG, Harper, Power, Gradwell etc………..
I think this polarisation leads to positions being entrenched and many people viewing “grey-scale” issues in stark black and white, even where the issues themselves are clouded by some uncertainty.
HOWEVER there is probably a significant area of common ground even between some of the more extreme posts published on these threads -most people would agree: BAD THINGS happened at HDLG (and elsewhere)
-just how bad these things were is not entirely clear but individuals with personal or recounted experience may get upset by their experience being belittled. There certainly seem to have been a number of suicides and two murders on the mainland committed by a (previously brutalised) HDLG resident.
WITH HINDSIGHT it would have saved so much pain and money if only things had been done differently historically, -ref. poor staff selection (to say the least), poor supervision of staff, under-funding, the housing of young offenders TOGETHER with other children in care . . . . . ………………..
I would speculate that among the “rotten apples” there were probably some good staff working at HDLG and that caring such a number and range of children would be extremely challenging especially as some would have been damaged even before arrival.
Parts of the HDLG excavation seem to have corroborated witness testimonies but HINDSIGHT would perhaps suggest that the level of excavation was excessive in terms of the usable evidence that it produced. One must remember that the police at the time were apparently under strict instruction from the Chief Minister that cost was no object.
Gradwell / Warcup (and politicians) rubbishing the investigation of their predecessor was EXTREMELY UNPROFESSIONAL and is one of the reasons why positions have become so polarised – it is not that Harper, or his investigation, should be immune from criticism but there should be a recognition that this criticism was done with the benefit of HINDSIGHT and was not done in a balanced or credible way. The pedantics of whether it was a void, a cellar or a basement and the “tooth fairy” comment sum it up really.
In addition to any other motivations Gradwell & Warcup may have had, I think that they were under political “encouragement” to bury this thing (Graham Power did not please the politicians -and look what happened to him)
Gradwell / Warcup failed to deal with unresolved issues in the investigation -the femur and other bone fragments
- within the vagaries of carbon dating (of damaged) artefacts we hope that the timescale of these items puts them at the edge or beyond useful investigation – but what about teeth ?
There was testimony of lime pits years ago and other bones being removed only a few years ago when found by builders.
In order to be credible perhaps the Harper investigation needed to get a bit over the top.
-The fact that complaints had been hushed up for years and the more recent functioning of departments/ government that engineered the dismissal of the whistle blower, Simon Bellwood and the even more recent shenanigans surrounding the suspension of Graeme Power
- leaves many of us in a position of being rather sceptical of the official position. I am so pleased that no one seems to have died (except if you count the suicides and UK murders mentioned above).
The lack of credibility and completeness in the official position leaves one’s mind to wonder if a murderer could burn a child’s file as well as the body (in the convenient in house incinerator) -and it would be almost as if they never existed (during the times of paper records). Harper’s exhaustive local and UK records check gave a good deal of reassurance on this point, but there is that slight nagging doubt that you can’t confirm someone to be missing if you don’t know who you are looking for in the first place.
If I could make some suggestions/observations with that wonderful thing called HINDSIGHT :
- Harper’s investigation (warts and of all) should have been built upon, not rubbished in a rather childish manner – there was at least a confidence that it had been done properly – the island should have used this not wasted it (~£7,000,000 was it?)
No expensive and unnecessary suspension (£?)
No Wiltshire report (~£1,000,000+ & only partly published)
the (doctored) Napier report would not have been necessary (£?00,000)and there would be far less of a requirement for a public inquiry now (£3,000,000 to £6,000,000 ?)
And the island’s reputation would have been far less damaged by building on Harper’s investigation -even if some considered it over zealous. The post Harper situation has certainly been totally mismanaged.
I would add that the states have perhaps spent an inappropriate amount of money on legal advice focused on protecting themselves rather than prosecuting perpetrators or providing closure to victims ?
How many million are we up to now? – & If the children had been properly cared for ALL of this would have been saved – HINDSIGHT !
(Sorry to make such a long post.)
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Haile do you mean the person who could well be successful in their appeal?
How’s your zeal now donald?
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“Secondly, it seems that the Royal Court, the Court of Appeal and the Minister for Home Affairs consider it perfectly acceptable that if a person believes he is trying to uncover justice he is somehow allowed to break all normal professional standards”
I’m not sure that is correct. The basic position under Jersey law has always been that evidence can be admitted in any case regardless of how it is obtained. If, however, the evidence is obtained illegally or improperly, the person who obtained it may be subject to criminal or disciplinary charges.
In Harper’s case, uncovering evidence didn’t seem to be his concern. If it had been, there would not have been a problem. His main concern seemed to be to appear on television and in the papers as much as possible, speculating about evidence that had not been properly analysed yet.
But come on, now I’m interested. How was spending a grand on taking NOTW journalists for a very posh curry “proper and professional” or in accordance with “normal professional standards”. Or, if you prefer, what evidence was uncovered as a result of that nosh-up?
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The whole thing has been handled like a joke! i think its time it was put to rest and we look to the future and make sure nothing like this happens again! I hate to say this but jersey is no exeption, this has been happening all over the world, in all countries and in some cases still does. We can’t always dwell on the past, we learn from mistakes so lets learn from this.
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Wow.
Cracking post !! Haile Unlikely #41
I do not usually show my gentle side, but do go easy on Mr. Pond -I believe he is an old man.
I had wondered if senility was getting the better of him until I read some rather good posts of his on the subject of the vote to reduce senators with the island wide mandate (- remember – local representatives voting as they were told or blatantly in their own self interest [as usual?]). : To the point, rather liberal and in defence of our democracy -(such as it is) !
—— Mr. Pond is perhaps mellowing in his old age while the rest of us are sure to get more grouchy by the day !
The link you [Haile] provide is highly relevant to the debate – but should the link fail to connect; readers can access it by “googling”: lenny harpers guest posting OR lenny-harpers-guest-posting.html
It should be there somewhere at the top !
While there remain a significant number of people who seem content to blindly follow the herd instinct it is in fact ESSENTIAL to read a balance of the information available.
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*45 helen
move on and learn from mistakes , the mind boggles.
maybe this could apply to rape aswell.
“sorry i raped you it was a mistake, cant we forget it and move on ” ??
Justice for the victims is the issue here not money
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Well, I’ve read Lenny’s comments on the Syvret blog and it confirms my view.
What do you think a new inquiry will find? I’d say there are 2 options:
1) It confirms the “establishment” view that there was no cover-up, just incompetence from Lenny and Graham, and is painted by those who believe there is a cover-up as yet more evidence of a cover-up, and is followed by demands for a further inquiry; or
2) It finds there has been a vast establishment cover-up but as soon as the establishment discover this they cover up and discredit the inquiry.
Either way, it gets us nowhere. It will not come out and say “Lenny did a great job and his sterling efforts were covered up by an establishment that controls all aspect of Jersey life”. Because if they did, such a report couldn’t ever come out.
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donald “In Harper’s case, uncovering evidence didn’t seem to be his concern.”
Do you think he was after an appearance on TV for self aggrandizement or something? These sort of comments just begger belief!!!
This person has left the island and is retired, he has nothing to gain by repeatedly writing letters.
donald “What I object to is the assumption that if a person believes he is trying to uncover justice he is somehow allowed to break all normal professional standards..”
donald “I’m not sure that is correct. The basic position under Jersey law has always been that evidence can be admitted in any case regardless of how it is obtained. If, however, the evidence is obtained illegally or improperly, the person who obtained it may be subject to criminal or disciplinary charges.
You’ve just contradicated yourself. Evidence can be admitted regardless of how it was obtained. Next you say except if it was illegally gained. Which is it then?
As far as I am concerned this shows you don’t know what you are talking about.
Oh by the way how’s your zeal donald, has it gone flat?
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It must be clear to all Jerseys politicians, that they are “ Shafting Jersey Internationally ” in a world of fast as light communications , by not holding a proper enquiry as promised by Frank Walker.
Guernsey 28 new wealthy immigrants Jersey 2 from 2010 figures .
What does that indicate, Chief Minister Le Suer and council of ministers ?
Clifford Wilsons letter published in the JEP summed up cleverly the way I feel , and I suggest the same for the majority of the population reading the comments in the blogs.
Davey West.
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