2

Paul

No wonder they never wanted the results made public. Grainville and Haut Vallee in the BOTTOM 10 of the WHOLE of Britain – absolutely staggering.

So if you don’t get to go to Hautlieu expect to be in one of the worst schools in Britain. There are still lots of Grammar schools in the UK (Kent is known for them) so the argument about creaming off the top students just doesn’t wash. I believe that Jersey spents at least double per student than the UK average and what do we get for it?

Are we ready for the feeble excuses and deflection of the argument. Oh we mustn’t make the students at Grainville and HV feel bad. If I was a parent of a child at any of the non Hautlieu schools I would be fuming. If Jersey cannot achieve better than bottom 10 (out of approx 4000!) with all the money that is spent………………….

So if you can’t afford Private Education, and you are not quite bright enough to get to Hautlieu you could be in a bottom 1/4% school.

In those wise words of Victor Meldrew “Unbelievable”

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4

Steve

Meaningless statistics!

How many other UK regions ‘cream off’ the top 10% of students at 14? These students not only get great results (for Hautlieu!!) but would act as the ‘hares’ for other students in the 14-16 schools to chase and pull up their results.

It has always been de-motivating for schools to lose their best 10% and allow Hautlieu to reap the results of their efforts in exam results.

BTW…it isn’t going to get any better if the Education budget is drastically cut…

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6

A shining example

At least our States, tax-funded, fee-paying schools are doing exceptionally well. I’m sure that all the tax paying, Haute Vallee and Grainville parents will appreciate that, on average, our island produces ‘excellent results’ and will agree with Senator Perchard who sees our two tier educational system as a shining example of how the private and public sectors can work so well together.

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8

Serves us right

So now we know the truth. Our states education system is a shambles in the schools with town as the catchment area.

And the excuse: english is a second language to many of our students.

I KNOW i am going to get slated as xenophobic but this statement then reinforces the other problems we are having:

1. No immigration policy
2. Paying too much attention to ‘other’ national attitudes
a: A multilingual curriculum – stop it now. Save money.
b: Every lesson should be in English, Every Sign, Letter and Document.
3. Too many liberal ideas in the education system – too soft on the youth of today
4. Island policies are breeding a benefit society and we are already educating the next batch to follow in the footsteps of their forebears.

I would rather have 5 children getting apalling education due to no understanding of English compared to several thousand being ruined because of the weak educational establishment.

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10

Jay

-Bottom 10 in Britain for education.
-N o1 world wide for drinking problem.
-The biggest ever firework wasted.
-Police who think that they are above the law.
-Haut de la Garenne.
-0/10
-Marco White pull out.
-£26000/month for an hospital director.

I really start to believe that Jersey is full of egocentric who should come back on earth.

Money doesn’t make happiness, and this is clear to me.

Keep up the good work… I am loving it… What a laugh…

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12

Alan B

As a former teacher I am glad the results are being published. The senior management in the school make it what it is. But it is the parents who make the children want to be at school and learn throughout their education . Some parents rely on the teachers to solely give them this. Parents if your children are failing look at your attitude as well as the schools.

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14

BG

Oh dear here we go again. Another attack on the States system by people who haven’t really thought things through.

You can ONLY compare Jersey states secondaries with UK schools who

a) function in an area with no exclusion policy
b) have their top 20% achieving students creamed off at the end of Year 9

Unless the UK school you are comparing them with have these two conditions in place then the comparison is unfair and inaccurate.

My sympathies are with the hard working staff and students of the Jersey States sector whose morale must now be in tatters thanks to the release of these ‘damned statistics.’

And this is BEFORE the States takes hatchet to their funding, as planned.

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16

Craig

how can we as parents find out what kind of position the fee paying schools are?

One of the only reason of staying in Jersey is for a good education for our children… This might have just changed!

Thanks for your honesty States of Jersey.. or should it be… “In A State”

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18

Mogit

The erosion of the exam pass rate system – where basically now anything qualifies as a pass must accept the responsibility for the situation that we now find ourselves in, having worked in a secondary school for many years and experienced how students are “assisted” with their coursework it’s surprising this information has taken so long to reach the public domain!

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20

wan

Farmer and Education Minister Jimmy still doesn’t get it
He ensist that releasing these figures will have a detremental effect on education in the island. What logic does he apply ?
It should give him and his sleepy helpers a kick up the backside to improve it – and fast !
A muppet who was voted into the States with a mere 519 votes ( many of them friends and family I suppose ) Revolution now please !

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22

Disheartened

So lets all jump to the conclusion that the standard of teaching is poor in Jersey then. I’m not a teacher but I think that the standard of student needs to be considered. Slagging the schools off won’t get better results. Good exam results requires a high quality of education which is supported at home by the parents as well as the students being motivated to learn! Also, English is a second or third language to many of the students attending Grainville and Haut Vallee in particular, with many of their parents being unable to speak much or any English.

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24

Anonymous

It is extremely worrying when breaking news of the 5A*-C exam league tables leads to knee jerk reactions about the quality of an education in the state sector 11-16 schools as if A*-C were the holy grail. The fact of the matter is that value-added scores within education are what matters. Simply hiding behind the A*-C measure is as bad as not having league tables. To judge all schools against a broad benchmark is flawed because it assumes a level playing field and all students should be judged as equal and all schools the same. It also does a great disservice to those students who do not achieve A*-C because they have a lower potential, but these same students try hard and do exceed their individual targets. The crude A*-C does not take into account vocational nature of courses in secondary schools or students engaged in Work Related Learning.

The discredited broad A*-C in the England has been replaced with league tables published every January based upon Contextual Value Added or CVA. This is seen as the important thing in the UK. Schools with apparent high A*-C on that single measure may appear to offer the best in terms of outcomes, but when CVA is taken into account they do not always occupy the same league position. The A*-C scale also hides underperformance. Let’s say a child gets a B instead of the expected A*. Is this underperformance reflected in the league tables, no! Clearly not, but in CVA terms it would.

So what is CVA ? It is a benchmark system that enables all schools to be compared. It takes into account influential factors such prior attainment, special needs, English as another language (EAL), date of birth, gender and social deprivation. When all of these factors are taken into account then you get see a fair set of scales on which you can measure how successful a school may be.

The A*-C tables do one thing today. They discredit the inclusive nature of the 11-16 schools and belittle the hard work of teachers, support staff and students in these schools. When the fee paying and private schools, and Hautlieu take away from the normal comprehensive system at KS3 and then again at KS4 the top 50% of ability, this will result in lower 5 A*-C , and below national figures. If only 7% of students enter fee paying – private in the UK compared to nearly 40 % in Jersey, add then to the mix another 15-20% of your students transferring to Hautlieu at 14+, with comparable system in the UK, it will come as no surprise there will be a big difference come GCSE performance. Therefore comparing schools on the simplistic A*-C is wrong and benchmarking to the UK on this scale is wrong too when a more accurate and sophisticated model for assessing school progress exists. Let’s be smart about this so that judgements made are in fact the right ones.

Schools must be accountable; there is argument on this point. But let’s take a balanced and detailed review of progress measures and not grab the first food item we see on the shelf now the larder door is open’. Before we jump to conclusions and read the many insults that will no doubt permeate the ether re the exam results published today, reflect for a moment and do not judge without the full picture. There may be something else in the larder more valuable and informative now the door has been opened. Our knee jerk judgements and reactions now based upon A*-C may be short lived? Some could also be very damaging to the moral in some schools, with students and parents and unduly so.

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26

SE

Alan B – Well said!! – but do expect a fair bit of vitriol for you comments.

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28

Pip Clement

“So now we know the truth. Our states education system is a shambles in the schools with town as the catchment area.

And the excuse: english is a second language to many of our students.”

Is that really true?
Jersey is very white and European.
Compared to say Tower Hamlets I would say that we have a very English and Europe orientated school population and we certainly do not have the social deprivation or gang culture of the inner cities.
Comparing the teenagers that I meet in Jersey with the ones that I have met in the UK and I would describe them as being very well behaved and mannered compared with their average UK peers.
Maybe it is time to start turning over a few stones at Education and asking some hard questions.
James Reed is making excuses and covering up for years of failure by successive committees and ministers.
He must commit himself to changing the culture within the department itself.
If he cannot change things within six months then he should go taking most of the senior management with him!

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30

Realist

Forgive me,but isn’t there a “special needs” provision in some of those targeted schools, which might, in part, skew statistics? I may be wrong but Grainville, for example, certainly used to have a unit for those with an autism spectrum disorder, which has increased dramatically in recent years, beyond claims of “it’s just better diagnosis”.Apart from this, I cringe every year when the media regularily roll out the success stories of GCSE and A level results, full of ecstatic pupils, opening their envelopes, in Jersey.How does that message support those whose ability is not measured in exam results? It destroys self esteem and imparts a silent message of failure,for those whom do not achieve the now discredited claims that Jersey had every year somehow achieved the best results in the UK. The reality is that certain of the “others” are disadvantaged, whether by social or language difficulties, or simply because of disorders, such as dyslexia.it’s time to stop this cruel and divisive practice in league supremecy, which has now been revealed as a lie.

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32

cynic

Value-add is the most important measure for our schools. Deputy Ronald Mc Reed would have been well advised to be candid about the figures and present the facts without prompting. He now finds himself on the back foot, again, lacking credibility.

He has a very difficult job to do, it is a shame that he has yet again shown himself to be way out of his depth, let us hope the low tide predicted for November gives him the chance to escape without further damage.

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34

S2

Senator Reed, you are busted.

Back to school for you, Haute Vallee, perhaps, if it isn’t too much above your level

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36

Overpopulated

Perhaps these low performing children might have had better exam results if they were at home doing their homework, not out on the streets with a bottle of vodka.

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38

Mark

PrivateSchool Parent (2) This is exactly why the States should continue to support through subsidy the private school system

Or maybe this is why we need to rebalance funding and stop supporting the private school system.

It should be noted that Hautlieu, a unsubsidised States school, achieved 96.6%. Why do the private schools need so much subsidy to achieve only marginal improvement in grades? A good argument for the cancelling of all subsidies! The truth is the results are appalling, affluent Jersey does worse that many inner city sink schools.

This is not the problem of just James Reed, or the current CoM; it takes years of mismanagement to deliver results like these. However; the current CoM must take the rap for the current cover-up.

The ‘Jersey Way’ is to sweep problems under the carpet, this must stop!

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40

Dan

Mark (38)

Let me spell this out nice and slowly for you. The fee-paying schools are partially subsidised by the states and ultimately from taxes. However, the states schools are 100% supported by the tax payer. So you question should have been how do the fee-paying schools do so well given how LITTLE support they get.

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42

Sam de St Pierre

Can the JEP please do an article on the freedom of information code so that we can all find out a bit more of the truth in Jersey. If it were that simple to obtain this information then why wasn’t it revealed years ago? After all, we have all been asking. Or was this a “leak” in the public interest leaving our Government too embarrassed to take the perpetrator to court “a la Syvret”?

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44

Lee Ving de Ship

I have just mistakenly taken off my rose tinted glasses and I am horrified!

Education = a shambles and years of covering up the true position

Planning = departmental shambles. Badly exposed in Reg’s Skips case amongst others

Tourism = run to the ground and under invested in favour of finance

Agriculture = see tourism

Finance = well, the rest of the world don’t like it so let’s keep tweaking the old 0/10 until we get it right shall we? In the meantime keep upping GST and hit the poor, the elderly, in fact, hit anyone who isn’t rolling in it.

Home Affairs = a complete mess exposed in the Power debacle and the illegal activites of the police in the Warren case, amongst others. A minister who thinks he is still a magistrate by the way he still uses phrases like “in my judgment”.

Health = a complete mess. We can’t keep a minister in there for more than 5 minutes but can afford a stupidly expensive consultant to fix it.

TTS = roads falling apart, useless transport system, incinerator scandal(s) etc etc etc etc

Civil service = No accountability, no sackings but plenty of early retirements and golden handshakes. A healthy but inept spin doctoring department (it worked for a while boys).

Ministerial government = a group of people who ‘welcome’ unfavourable reports, claim to ‘learn lessons’ from them but actually just carry on as before. Will never accept responsibility for something going wrong. Opposed to any form of truth, honesty or transparency. A Chief Minister who can easily spend 15 minutes talking without actually answering the question put to him.

Have I missed anything? I must have so feel free to add to the growing list of failures/cock ups/scandals…

I shall put my glasses back on now because I don’t like what I see.

Ahh, that’s better. What a wonderful place Jersey seems again.

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46

Let's be fair

#24 – anonymous

Wholeheartedly agree.

As someone who has taught at 2 States schools (one of them Grainville) and also at a fee-paying, selective school, you cannot simply compare fee-paying / Hautlieu with the States schools. It is not a fair comparison at all – you are comparing schools where the student bodies are vastly different.

At the States schools there are students who couldn’t care less about their education and whose sole aim is to disrupt the learning environment and cause as much chaos as possible. There are students who can barely speak a word of English yet are expected to study for and sit exams where the teaching is in English, the exam questions are written in English and they are expected to answer in English. There are also students who have learning difficulties ranging from mild through to severe.

None of this exists at the fee-paying schools or Hautlieu because these students simply do not have the ability (or in the case of the disruptive students, the motivation) to get into these schools. The harsh truth is that Hautlieu takes the top students and so is guaranteed a good A* to C pass rate (and it should be said that the States schools have done a lot of the ground work at KS3 in terms of preparation for those grades). JCG and Vic have a selective entrance exam – again, this guarantees a high level of A* to C. Although Beaulieu and De La Salle are not ‘selective’, the fact that they are fee-paying schools makes them selective in terms of the types of students who go there, and again, leads to a good A* – C pass rate. The fee-paying schools also have a lot more power when it comes to students who are not achieving. They can be expelled (and I have seen this happen in the fee-paying school I worked at).

Although the first part of my post may seem to be bashing the States schools and the calibre of their students, I actually have great admiration for the work that they do. They have to deal with a myriad of problems that the fee-paying schools and Hautlieu will never have to deal with. Despite these problems, in our States schools there are plenty of motivated, hardworking and eager students. There are also a huge amount of motivated, enthusiastic and talented teachers who always do their utmost to help students to achieve. Of course, this is not true of all teachers, but it is true of most of them (and contrary to popular belief, paying for your child’s education does not guarantee a high standard of teacher. Having attended a fee-paying school and taught at another, the truth is very different).

A lot of the GCSE students at the States schools may not be capable of achieving grades A* to C, but why should these grades be the only grades we celebrate? What about a student who is predicted an F but attains a D? Is that not a great achievement? Why should that student be compared unfavourably to a student at a fee-paying school who is predicted a B and attains a B? In terms of value-added, the D grade student has achieved a better result and ‘done better’.

Some of the comments on here devalue all of the hard work the teachers do – and it also does nothing to encourage those students who work so hard and achieve so much, yet are overlooked because they are not A* – C students.

Let’s see an article looking at the value-added scores of all schools – that would be a much fairer comparison and would be a far more balanced story.

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48

Kim Hanson

As Laurel and Hardy would say “That’s another fine mess you’ve gotten us into”. As the States have been hiding these statistics, perhaps they could now get us out of this fine mess. There seems to be this idea that Jersey has lots of money, well where is it? It’s certainly not in our States Schools. Once again, those who cannot afford to send their children to a private school have to suffer the consequences because the States need to learn how to manage their money. Would you like me to buy you a ‘piggy bank’ and give you some pocket money, so you can learn? My children (both under 10) would be able to manage their money better! If you would put some money into our underfunded States Schools and make the classes smaller (there are 29 children in my sons class) whereas other classes have between 10 and 19. To me that means that those with smaller classes would be receiving much more attention and help they need. How come our States classes have suddenly started to grow in numbers. Have you recently changed the intake? I think the answer to that is yes as last year my sons class was 26, his place being the last place, suddenly this year it is 29. You have no sports facilities in your primary schools, no lunch facilities either; you provide a class room (small at that) packed with 29 children and you provide teachers. You are hardly pushing the boat out and don’t get me wrong the teachers are doing a good job whilst being so underfunded by the states and having to try to educate a class of 29/30 in some cases. Im worried about sending my children to States schools, but shouldn’t be. Does that mean that we should all send our children to private schools to get the education they deserve? The States should be ashamed of these results, so I am very surprised you think that increasing the class intake is going to help. Give me a job and I will sort it out for you, but not before you have cleared up the mess of a black hole you have made with the deficit. The States should pay that back out of their own pocket and stop robbing the workers on this Island.

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50

Anon

47. Real Truth Seeker

I see the plane from Libya got in ok lol. Ramblings of a despot

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52

AnonymousII

24 Anonymous

At least I can be sure that you are not James Reed in disguise! as your argument is informed and valid.

Let’s take Beaulieu as an example here the Value Added is first class due to dedicated and effective teaching of non-selected or now even down-selected pupils.

Minister James Reeds wisdom on this?

Reduce your establishment to Haute Vallee benchmarking or lose your States capitation entirely. The direct and real consequence is that 10 teaching staff there are currently being made redundant (not natural wastage) NOW. Perhaps the JEP should ask the minister about this as well.

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54

SANDRA

How can the school inspector be impartial when he works for the states? Surely we should be getting independant inspectors from the UK. The reason they are soo important is my daughter is in a classroom with a really disruptive special needs boy which the education department says is fine to be in mainstream school even though the class has 70 % of the pupils below average. Lets flush out these disruptive children and get the parents to take the responibilty of teaching them instead of them messing with our children’s future.

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56

Original babyboomer

As a retired teacher I have heard every excuse kids can come up with for not working at school or doing their homework. Basically what it boils down to is that in a lot of cases when kids are at home the parents are either too busy or too tired to ensure they do their homework or even understand it. Let’s be honest about this in a lot of households family mealtimes, when parents had an opportunity to communicate with their kids are a thing of the past and a lot of kids are on computers and texting until the small hours. Parents should stop using the TV and computer and such like as convenient babysitters and pay a little bit more attention to what their kids are actually doing and when, kids who don’t bother to go to bed until the small hours will NEVER do well at school.

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58

John Rambo

I am shocked, hugely shocked at this.
I have a 2 year old and we were not sure whether we should send him to a States school, or a fee paying school, which we can only just afford.
My question has now been answered. I will happily get another evening job so that my son will have a chance in life, and not grow up to be an uneducated slob, which Deputy Reed seems happy with!

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60

Mona Lot

A friend who was concerned at some homework his child was doing visited her school and voiced his concern in as much as he considered she should be much further advanced than she was at her age was told by a very charming teacher that she entirely agreed and said to him”We spend so much of our time teaching a lot of our pupils English, we have fallen behind, that is just the way it is”

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62

Usually calm

In response to many comments and as briefly as I can be….
1. JCG and Vic are selective…. what about students who ‘fail’ their entrance exam and end up in one of the four 11-16 schools?
2. How about we take the results of the students creamed off for Hautlieu at 14+ and put them with the results of their feeder school, who do all the ground work. See how that changes percentages
3. A reminder of the Value Added…. not all students are able to achieve A* – C but many of them exceed their target grades. Well done to them in particular, I say.
4. Do people really think that teachers are ‘better’ at fee-paying schools? My understanding is that they all received the same teacher training.

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64

just a parent

Interesting – but not the whole story.

These figures are pretty useless by themselves and don’t really tell anyone very much.

The results need to be looked at comparing:

The children’s CATs results (did they perform better/worse than they should have)

How many % of children chose to go to Hautlieu from each school (Les Q traditionally don’t have as many going out of choice)

What % have English as a 2nd language

What % of children in each school took the exam(s)

The % of social housing /lower income groups in the schools’ catchment areas

I’m sure that there is more to consider, I’m not a statistician, but I’m sure you get the idea.

(3 of my children went to Les Quennevais and all got more than the minimum 3 A*-Cs – then went on to A levels/ BTecs / Uni / Further education / sucessful jobs. No. 4 child is going to be sent to Les Quennevais too.)

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66

stevechanyi.je

It is unfair to claim that ‘state schools’ are under performing when the best students are creamed of prior to sitting GCSEs and sent to Hautlieu. All this does is move academically successful students from the various schools into a single catchment thereby skewing the results. It is quite likely, that had they remained at their schools they would have achieved the same level of success and their schools’ results would reflect this.

What the figures do highlight, is the existence of state sponsored social segregation within Jersey – something that should disgust every citizen in a social-democracy.

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68

????

Well looks like everyone is so ready to blame education for this well ive been to vic and de la salle both fee paying schools and yes they do get good results and the teachers there are hardly brilliant of course theres some exeptions but in general the teachers arn’t very motivated or perticulary interesting. I would say the reason that these schools get good results is because the more well off kids are more interested in learning and in getting a well paid job they’ve had a taste of wealth from thier parents and they want what they’ve got. Whereas you get the less well off people in HV and Grainville who dont realy care about it they’d rather hang round with mates and doss about, they have grown up in a less well off household and rather than motivating them to do better it seems to have the opposite effect. Im just generalising a lot of this as there are exeptions and not everyone fits my classifications but this is one of the reasons i think this is happening

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70

Oh My!

This is what I predict – we are all disappointed and frustrated but nothing will change… the SoJ don’t listen and no-one has the balls to do anything about it and even if we marched on mass to Jim’s front door (which no-one will do) he will just feed us more meaningless nonsense (where was he educated by the way?) and laugh in our faces – knowing there is nothing any of us can do.

Democracy don’t you love it!

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72

hawhaw

Good to see the plan has worked….the whole point of releasing these stats is to get the debate going again about how good fee paying schools are so don’t take their subsidy!

Wake up and smell the coffee!! Certain fee paying schools only take students who pass an entrance exam. e.g they should get 100% A-C grades when they leave….they don’t ….their value added would be negative.

Wake up and smell the coffee again! You send your son or daughter to a fee paying school you are not getting value for money! Your son or daughter would still do as well in a States school you just haven’t got the common sense to see this. All you pay for is the class of person your children mix with.

Read up on the education system in the UK and Jersey and you might understand we have a good education system, that isn’t failing children…its generally the parents who fail them!

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74

Haute Vallee Student

believe it or not but some of us at these ‘public schools’ are clever. but that may shock you ….

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76

D Mc S

spot on no 47.

it should be noted that education achieved those pathetic results by spending around twice as much per pupil in education costs (mainly salaries)

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78

Working Mother

The answer appears very clear with respect to the examination results for Grainville and HV. Both of these schools get the majority of children where English is there second language. I would like to know how many exactly there are?

These children will struggle to get C grades, because the examination papers are all written in English and they will struggle, no doubt about that.

It seems from the comments I have read that the teachers in Grainville and HV are spending alot of their teaching time on these children, and I would expect that the Jersey children are being some what left to get on with there work in the class room with little attention from the teachers.

Maybe the States should think about putting all the children with English as their second subject in a seperate class together so the Jersey children can get the attention they need.

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80

PJG

Am I the only one that can see through the fog?

Jersey fee paying schools are returning the top results in the country!
Jersey NON fee paying schools are returning the worst results in the country!

If the subsidies are removed from fee paying schools how many of you caring parents who said they would not be able to afford the fees will actually go through with this threat when subsidies “ARE” removed?

How many of you who really care for your offspring will “Now” knowingly, to save a few bob, send your little darlings to a school that will give them the worst start in life in the country?

May I take this opportunity to thank all you caring parents who have put a gun to your own heads by subscribing to this blackmail.

Keep on paying the fees (the ones that will probably be increased as well as having the subsidies removed), it makes my tax lower.

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82

mary not contrary

@73 – Really? Did you learn your use of punctuation at Haute Vallee?

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84

AnonymousII

79 PJG Yes I can see through the fog can you?

I made this comment earlier,
‘Reduce your establishment to Haute Vallee benchmarking or lose your States capitation entirely. The direct and real consequence is that 10 teaching staff there (Beaulieu) are currently being made redundant (not natural wastage) NOW. Perhaps the JEP should ask the minister about this as well.’

This lot are not looking at’ bring up to’ but ‘bring down to’ I find that indefensible and irresponsible. Not content with under performance in their direct schools they want to bring the rest down as well. This IS an argument that all education should be equivalent ….equivalent GOOD education that is not equivalent BAD as being actively pursued by the bean counters.

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86

PJ

Make Hautlieu 6th form only, meaning the brighter ones have to stay at their original school for GCSE’s, which shouldn’t be a problem for them, should it? Might even save a few bob.

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88

blueskythinking

In some ways I guess it’s a good thing that the vast discrepancy between fee paying selective schools and the all inclusive states schools has been highlighted. It reflects the two/three/four tier system the establishment has propped up for many years. Anyone who understands the education system in Jersey will not be shocked by these meaningless statistics. It’s just the way things are. You have those who pass exams at 11 to get into the elite semi-private schools, those who get a place at 14 to go to Hautlieu by getting 109 or above in their SATS tests (a very poor way of judging intelligence btw). You have those students who go to faith schools, often because they are not quite clever enough for the top schools and then there are those who go to our state schools. And despite the knock backs, there are many children who do exceptionally well at all our state schools. The state schools work with an extremely diverse range of needs and abilities, some schools with a great deal of highly challenging students. The fact that some students, after all the very best students have been ‘creamed off’ at one stage or another achieve 5 GCSE’s at C or above is quite inspiring. These schools cannot be compared with Secondary education in the UK. In fact, they cannot be compared anywhere in the world as nowhere on this planet has such a diverse and discriminatory approach to education. If the system changes to support all children equally, then the education system could be properly scrutinised. Until that point, this set of statistics published by the JEP will encourage even less able, parent supported children to use their local school.

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90

Working Mother

What the States Schools should consider doing is something similar to what I recently experienced at De La Salle which was one hour where all parents were invited into the classroom to “observe” for an hour a teaching session.

It was brilliant, rather than standing outside the school gates wondering what it is like for the children, we got to see the teaching skills first hand, toether with the interaction with parents and children. We were also invited to sit down with the children at their desks to see first hand how they write sentences etc (and alot of these boys are still 4 years old)

The children were all very well mannered, and all enjoyed the sessions. I have spoken to alot of parents and they were delighted.
Surely the States schools should do something similar where they invite the parents into the classroom for an hour, and the parents can then take their own view on what the teaching standard is really like.

So I would just like to say thank you to the wonderfull teachers in De La Salle Reception Class. Your teaching skills are excellent, but above all kind and caring and my Son has come on so much over the last 6 months since starting De La Salle. Even if the school fees are doubled (which would be so difficult to afford) we would have no intention of sending our Son down the States route, just to save money. Our childs educution is paramount so if we have to make sacrifices then so be it

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92

Hautlieu Student

As a sixth form student at Hautlieu, who has attended both haute vallee for 3 years and hautlieu from then onwards, i find myself thinking…. what do you as adults actually know?

My time spent at haute vallee was awful, not because the teaching was bad (if anything it was sometimes better than what i have experienced at hautlieu), not because there wasnt any facilities (HV have more than Hautlieu), but because the badly behaved students command the place. Every lesson was disrupted by bad behaviour, bullying occured everyday, and learning couldnt take place. As soon as a badly behaved student did behave, they were rewarded. Unlike students who were always well behaved and who never saw a congratulatory comment for keeping their mouth closed for an hour. I felt under appreciated and under valued by the school, giving out a certifcate once a year in front of the school is not good enough, and if anything, embarrassing in front of your bullies.

Moving to hautlieu was a breath of fresh air, where i could express myself and was able to be myself. It was a new begining. No detentions and no certificates, you achieve because you want to achieve. And if your stuggling, the suppport is there and teachers are friendly and welcoming.

The bad results are not because of the teaching. Its the students. A massive attitude makeover is in needed, and the young people of Jersey need to wake up and realise that once they leave school with no qualifications, they’ll have nothing. I am not saying that qualifications are the most important thing because theyre not, but as soon as these kids open their mouths, they will not be taken seriously. As soon as they show up for a job interview wearing their mini skirt, they will be turned away. They need to understand the concequences of their actions and the way they present themselves. It is not only schools being too lenient, parents need to buck up their ideas and take some responsibility for their children and not only blame the schools.

I have come from a non fee paying school (Haute Vallee) and if im honest, i have never had any support from my parents in regards to education. Both my parents are portuguese and I learnt english at school. Yet, i achieved 10 a*-c grades at gcse and am currently sutdying the International Baccalaureate. So if you ask me, its up the the individual and if these individuals are being infuenced by ill mannered, antisocial peers, what do you expect?

The children going to these schools are intelligent, they just ‘cant be bothered’. As i said earlier, Jersey needs a massive attitude makeover!!

As i said earlier,

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94

joleb

Working Mother – Grouville school has been doing this every March for the past few years -they call it ‘Shared Learning Week’.

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96

Adrian

2 in the bottom 10 in the whole of the UK!?

What a joke. And this guy was bigging up these schools only a few months ago. No wonder he didn’t want the cat let out of the bag.

He should be removed from office and so should the Director of Education if this is the best they can muster.

I knew Granville was bad as I had heard plenty of things about it from parents who were unlucky enough to have to no choice but to send their kids there (without resorting to paying to send their children to private school that is).

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98

s

@94 teach

would you like to let us know what school you teach at, i would wager that with the reaction you expect that its not a fee paying school, and that is the whole point. To say that having parents attend a class to see what is going on would cause disruption and that you as a teacher dont seem to care about it and accept it is wrong
I attended my sons class in year 6 at dls, and every single one of the class clearly wanted to show the parents their ability and contribution, and were extraordinarily well behaved and all participated. That is how it should be. That is the ethos instilled in the fee paying schools, and there is no reason this cant be applied to states schools.

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100

DB

It seems all the bad ones go to Grainville or Haut Vallee …. not so the private schools have their fair share of problems, bullies and challenging behaviours – fact.

I saw boys and girls from privately educated schools at Fort Regent having after school lessons with the States Music Service and their behaviour was terrible and they were very annoying and a real pain – oops!

Rather than slate Grainville and Haute Vallee go and visit them, see what they do and the facilities and then make your mind up.

Give Grainville and HV a break, let the teachers teach and let the children learn.

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102

B

No 91- well done and good luck and you are so right!
No 97- totally agree! Exactly why you couldnt do that at HV year 10 is the difference in most of the students attitudes there to those attitudes in DLS etc.

It is all about attitude to learning and I wouldn’t want my childs education to be ruined and disrupted by all those who cant be bothered to learn. So if I could I would pay for private schools. Not for the education because I do not think it any better but so that my child has nicer experiences in school, less disruption and less bullying!

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104

trinity hero

“Rather than slate Grainville and Haute Vallee go and visit them, see what they do and the facilities and then make your mind up.”

Even better idea. While dropping your kids off at Vic or JCG, drive past Grainville and watch the kids walking to school. Overweight, gum chewing, slovenly, rude, walking in the middle of the road, gesturing at cars, skirts hitched up. And now we know the rubbish exam results confirm these prejudices! Great!!!

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106

Mad Madeline

@91 Hautlieu Student: Thankyou for your views and good luck with your studies.

Everybody on this forum should read and digest what this young person has written. It is the badly behaved students that are spoiling things for those who wish to learn.

Remove these pupils, place them in a reform school and let the others have a chance.

Only the students will tell you the truth because they have no need for spin, mistruths or massaging of figures.

James Reed, Mario Lundy and all concerned, you are failing our children.

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108

Leah Holmes

#92 You’re clearly not understanding how percentages work. Say most of those who are capable of passing the entrance test for Hautlieu do so and then leave to go there, that will give the ‘feeder’ school a huge drop in the percentage that get 5Cs or above at GCSE!

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110

Hawhaw

@102 school mum

Officially you’re correct, unofficially you are very wrong and they are selective!

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112

usually calm

103. trinity hero… I CANNOT BELIEVE that your comment got past moderation. Your comments are vicious, rude and completely unacceptable…. think of all those students you have just labelled who take care in their appearance, are polite, work hard and are not going to grow up with the kind of attitude you have.

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114

Teach

@s

Attending a Primary school class of 11 year olds (with the same teacher they have every day, all day) and attending a Secondary school class of 15 year olds with, say, their French teacher…will be two totally different experiences, trust me.

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116

Working Mother

Teach 112

Teacher, clearly you are terrified of parents attending your classroom session. You sound as if you are shaking in your boots, I can only guess your 15 year olds are so badly behaved they couldn’t cope with parents attending an open classroom session, and if this is not the case you yourself are worried about any comments about your own teaching skills.

DLS 11 year old boys all coped so well, they were not embarrassed at all

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118

JULIE

Wise words and common sense from Hautlieu Student (comment 91)
I have always believed that how well a child does at school is greatly influenced by parental support and the childs peers.If a parent offers little interest or encouragement the child has to be very determined and focused to achieve which can obviously be the case but all children seek and expect praise from their parents in my experience.If that child is mainly surrounded by ill mannered disinterested peers he/she will also find it more difficult to achieve.The simple fact is that the schools with the bad results contain more of this type of pupil and it is most unfortunate for those who do not fall in to this category to thrive in such an environment.I have also witnessed the most appalling behaviour from children leaving Haute Vallee and wonder if schools actually have any basic rules anymore?When I was at school if one of my fellow pupils had been seen with her school skirt so short that her underwear was on display and was then seen spitting at a passing car she would have been severely dealt with!!

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120

teach

@Working Mother

Far from being terrified – as I stated earlier, having an adult in the room is often a real help, if they are sufficiently trained. Failing that they can be a real distraction.

Are you a trained support worker? Or are you simply suggesting that we start allowing members of the public to just turn up at schools, stand in the classroom and stare at the children?

As for ‘open classrooms; senior management, the headmaster and other teachers can and will ‘pop in’ without warning at any time, and all teachers know this. Hence our classrooms are always ‘open’ – just not to you, I am afraid.

Once again I must make the point that you seem to miss – there is a significant difference in the behaviour of 11 year olds in the Primary sector and 15 year olds in Secondary. You seem to find this hard to comprehend.

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122

Working Mother

Teach

I am not missing the point.

Ask any teacher of 15 year olds in Vic College and JCG and they wouldn’t be coming up with excuses like the below (in your very own words)

As a teacher myself I can tell you that having someone’s parent standing in the corner of the classroom watching the class is a sure way to cause disruption (not to mention embarrassment for the son/daughter involved) as the pupils will inevitably play up or be distracted by the new adult in the room. This will therefore alter the course of the lesson and present a false impression.

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124

Leah Holmes

#116 Julie, when it comes to the skirts hitched up so high their underwear is on show I’ve seen that plenty with the fee-paying school girls, some even when they have been walking WITH a parent!

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126

Reality check

Teach. As a secondary teacher myself. I think the idea of parents having taster lessons is a brilliant idea. I know of one state school where this happens already. Parental involvement and understanding of teaching and learning can only be a good thing. Yeah some kids may feel a little embarrassed but if these ideas were seen as the norm rather than leftfield, I’m sure that parents would care far less about headline grabbing statistics and be more respectful of the school their child goes to- or not as the case may be…

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128

St Ouens Resident

Senator Reed get back to your Day Job of Farming, you are not worthy of being the Minister of Education or a States Member look out for November a lot of residents are so sick of you that you will be ousted out as Deputy so do the decent thing and resign now!!!

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130

Jonty

#108 Leah Holmes, unfortunately I think you have missed the point. I do understand that a ‘feeder’ school might lose a % to Hautlieu etc. However, if you read my post again, you will see that I was posing the question: surely this does not amount to 30%+ and even if it did, we must still ask why the remaining 2/3rds are so bad?

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132

Leah Holmes

#130 I agree Jonty, but dependent on the number of school kids coming from a feeder school it could amount to 30%

We should ask why the remaining 2/3 are so bad, but then we must be willing to accept the answer. I don’t believe for two seconds that pupils are doing poorly because of the teaching at secondary school, many seem to already be behind before they get there. And when it comes to primary age children parenting plays a huge part in their education, well it should do anyway!

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134

Teach

@bumble

So what do we say about the x% of children who arrive in Secondary education at Grade F level but progress up to a Grade D (the national average)? Has that school failed them because it produces a D?

Likewise the child who arrives at a school as a grade A student yet slips over the years to a Grade B. Is that school still a success because it produces a B?

It really isn’t as clear cut as most of you would like to have it. You are all armchair educationalists with a shallow grasp on the complexity of the situation responding to naff statistics published by a newspaper eager to create a sensationalist story. You only have to look at the online quote chosen for publication in yesterday’s JEP from the horrible ‘PrivateSchoolParent’ poster to see that the newspaper’s aim is to inflame and cause an outcry.

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136

JB

This is a sick joke, you cant say this when the top students at the schools are creamed off to go to Hautlieu, people have twisted the statistics to make this sound worse than it is, Haute Vallee is a great school, great facilities and great teachers, as a student at Haute Vallee, i have no worries of achieving my target grades at this school, which are A*’s to B’s.

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138

Hedinda Sands

We have known for a while that the States education system was failing our brighter children. This is largely because of the fashionable but flawed ethos of apparently only aiming to get all children up to a minimum standard (& failing?).

Education should aim to get the BEST out of EVERY child. This probably means streaming and possibly a grammar school system (what is happening to Hautlieu, our only “grammar school” ! )

I am DEVASTATED to discover that much of our States system is ALSO failing the less able children !

Mr Lundy, your excuses are PATHETIC – grow a backbone and take some responsibility – responsibility comes with your (excessive?) salary.

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140

Hedinda Sands

Hautlieu Student #92 : GREAT POST !! -I know what it is like to fight against the tide – well done you ! – but will the “ADULTS” listen ?

Educationalists and many posters here fail to appreciate the reality that mixing abilities (& commitment) only slightly raises the game of the lowly motivated.
OVERWHELMINGLY it dumbs down and spoils the life chances of those who can and want to learn, by providing an environment where learning is near impossible.
School becomes mind numbingly boring and bad behaviour spreads and becomes the culture.
THIS IS THE REALITY ! The rights of most of the children are being ruined by the few. You have the right to be educated but you do not have the right to ruin other people’s education. Schools and teachers need workable systems for managing behaviour.

Failing pupils are mostly not thick -they are generally being failed by their school and it’s management.

Keep similar abilities together and keep it dynamic so students can move up and down groupes.
Turn these schools round – provide the teachers with circumstances in which they can teach, not babysit and do rabble control – give everyone a chance !

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142

Hedinda Sands

Hi Mike #141
I missed the Panorama last night, but thanks for the heads up; I will hopefully find time to catch it on the iplayer.

I have considerable family experience in this area but nonetheless I am an “armchair educationalists” and I do not pretend to have all the answers.
It may be that phased segregation, sanction and reward and phased re-introduction (or whatever other focused system) would actually benefit the excessively disruptive individuals as well as “benefiting of the many”. -Nearly everyone is good at something; & like any industrial or business system, Education must minimise it’s “waste” and make the best use of it’s materials and not just be a pre-prison holding tank !

“teach” will no doubt remind us that we are not PROFESSIONAL Educationalists. -For they are a breed apart and have made such a success of education systems here and in the UK (not!).

Despite relatively high funding we have serious failures in our education system as well as our child protection system – And guess what – NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE !

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144

Haute Vallee Parent

143 Wrong & 136 JB

Well done and the best of luck to you. You both obviously want to get the best out of your education.

I’m a Haute Vallee parent and it’s awful reading these comments slating the school.

You have proved there are decent young people and teachers at the school if only others could see it.

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146

Student

As a student at a secondary school, i feel that this is wrong, as i seen before you have to consider that many portuguese or polish students have some difficulty getting the language, so they would not achieve the higher grades, and now you can see that there’s a bigger community of people speaking other languages.
And you can’t really blame the teacher, they give up their free time to help us to get the grades, with after schools.

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148

miss de meanour

Wrong…are you saying that kids who go on to become builders, electricians and plumbers shouldn’t bother trying to get a Grade C in Maths, Science and English?

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150

trinity hero

Yes, following the comments of teach, wrong and haute vallee parent I have reconsidered my position and think that it is a great school that could not be doing better.

I had previously believed the kids were basically okay but were suffering from an unsupportive home environment and poor teaching and were not being given the opportunities they deserved. But I now see the teaching is fantastic so it must just be that poor people are thick. Thanks for clearing that up teach et al.

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152

An Angry Student

Who ever wrote this I would like to say to them is that they should try being a TEACHER is one of these schools. And if you say that you only print trhe truth then you should read the rest of the comments and read the repiles to your artical in the news recantly.

Next time can you please write something that won’t flare up anger, please.

An Angry Student

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154

Teach

@miss de meanour

You make a some good points.

“What are you actually saying? That poorer kids aren’t as motivated or clever enough to get a grade C. The real problem is that the families or poorer kids may not be able to give their child the same amount of time or access to the same amount of resources as those from more affluent families.”

Absolutely agree. Poorer families DO have less time and resources, which is why more of them live in denser urban areas such as those falling in the catchment zone of Haute Valle and Grainville. Hence children with lower academic potential are more likely to attend the two ‘town’ schools. Hence their lower GCSE results. Seems we agree on this one.

“I’m beginning to think that this gives the system quite a convenient excuse: blame the students and the parents when the child struggles through their GCSEs.”

A half-truth. Also lame the parents of the seriously misbehaving children who frequently disrupt the learning of others and take up huge amount of time, energy and resources.

These children tend to come from problem families (who tend to be low income, often with parents separated or suffering from various ‘issues’) who by and large are more predominant…in town. Hence more likely to send their children to HV and G.

Sure Les Q has a big estate nearby but that’s one estate vs the entire span of St Saviour and St Helier.

“Stop hiding behind the kids, behind the statistics and behind pseudo socio-economic theories to explain away the poor performance of these schools.”

Quite the opposite. Tomorrow morning I shall get up and stand in FRONT of the children all day as I try to help them achieve their potential in a school that the rest of you are labelling ‘the worst’ in the island. I shall try to convince them that they CAN achieve despite what the rest of the island is telling them about their school. I will try my hardest to ensure that they succeed come exam time in May and June, just like I have done for the past 15 years of my life.

Happy typing.

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156

Wrong

Not but im saying they won’t be stuck infront of a computer critisising Teachers,schools,students and parents. Their trying there hardest to craft and education and there life and partly people like you who discourage others are one of the problems.

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158

bumble

@ Teach 134 – You miss my point entirely. There are pass grades and failure grades for university and job acceptance criteria.

If an A student goes down to B they will still achieve a pass, however, continued assessment of this pupil should have predicted this was going to happen, so I believe the school has failed them.

If an F student progresses to a D then kudos to the school for improving that childs education….but the student will still have failed certain entry criteria but may well have passed others.

I am not an armchair educationalist, I am a tax paying parent of 2 children. I am entitled to an opinion.

I maintain my original statement that it is grades that a student will be judged on by a University or future employer.

If I am wrong then please explain why.

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160

miss de meanour

Teach. I think it’s admirable that you spend your day telling these kids that they can achieve the best they can. However, it’s you who has mentally writes off these kids before they have even started. This is exemplified by the fact that in your previous posts, you reeled off many reasons why these kids are struggling to get a grade C in the core subjects. There is clearly a culture of apathy spreading from the top down to the bottom.

I can’t give you a substantive answer to the disruptive child element, because I’m not paid to teach, but just to make sure that we’re following the same curriculum: we are talking about St.Helier/St. Saviour and not South Central LA or South Chicago. Right?

…and for the record…I went to one of the “ghetto” schools in the early 90s, I lived in a bedsit and an estate, and my parent’s first language isn’t English. I came out with 9 GCSEs and got a First for my Degree. I achieved that because I had teachers who didn’t write me off as soon as I stepped foot in the door.

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162

reality check

When students leave school at 16 to find work or training via an apprentaship, numeracy and literacy are of course high on the list of priorities for an employer, but those ‘soft skills’- communication, team work, critical thinking are often placed above, infact most importantly, a personality is often the make or break for a job! Some schools on the island are recognising this and doing something about it, others are just interested in percentages of A-C’s.
http://www.trainingreference.co.uk/news/gn060825.htm

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164

Literacy 1st

162

OK, But what are you doing about the students who do not have basic literacy skills?? The ones who have been completely failed – No one seems to want to admit that they exist & I know they do!! By all means help them with ‘soft skills’ but please teach them to read & write first!

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166

In the know

Hawshaw 119 FYI 36% of the intake of B last years GCSE results was were under CAT score 100 …. Go ahead and obtain the value added results for this cohort…. I think you will find that they far surpass any of the other schools.. Go for it I dare you! Then comment.

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