1

peddler

Somebody please tell me what school is for?

I thought it was to get an education that culminates in achieving the best grades that you can in your exams, thereby enabling you to enter the adult world and hopefully get a good job. No?

If that still remains the reason for school, then how can anybody say that a mere 20% pass rate in the aforementioned exams is a success.

States education is failing the non fee paying students who WANT to learn.

What does this man not understand here? How can we be proud of turning out so many young adults who are ill prepared for the real world.

The spin on this is shameful. You have failed. Nothing more to be said here.

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3

Jay

“He defended the figures, which showed that just 20% of pupils at Haute Vallée and Grainville achieved five A* to C grades.”

Firstly, this is a falsehood. The figures show this statistic when the five specified GCSEs include both Maths and English, so this statement is false, and sloppy.

Secondly, how can you even compare this to the UK schools? I know that blind fascists like Real Truthseeker will seek to sing the praises of the fee-paying sector and bash the hard-working teachers of the States schools while knowing absolutely nothing about conditions and intake of these schools.

Fact of the matter is, many Grainville and Haute Vallee students don’t speak English as a first language. This is due to mass immigration (a policy of the much-admired Senator Ozouf, I believe). This would obviously lead to sub-standard results in English.

Secondly, the majority if the brighter students in the catchment areas of these schools will either be attending a fee-paying school or Hautlieu which creams the best and brightest off at the age of 14.

I’m disappointed that this has come to light. Haute Vallee and Grainville will now be labelled by snobs and twits as sink schools, when they, in reality, have little control over which students attend.

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5

Dan

So why all the secrecy?

The Education Department should have released this statement years ago and prevented all this fuss.

If there is actually one issue that all this information does hightlight is how incredibly well the fee paying schools are performing.

I’m sure again the Education department could supply CAT scores (inate ability) for students attending each of the schools and though I would expect Hautlieu to have significantly higher than average scores as it is done by selection there is no selection at the private schools so in effect the whole spectrum of abilities can and do attend. There is likely to be a different family ethos wrt education and especially because it is being paid for so I would suspect that ALL the parents insist the students do not slack and where necessary additional tuition is found.

So should the results achieved by a below average CAT score child be any different. Well no, not really. But what the results published by Education indicate is that a child at one of the colleges who has the same inate ability as a child at Grainville is significantly more likely to succeed because of….

Well Education assure us that the teaching standard in all schools is of the same high standard so that can’t be the reason;

which leaves only money and parental responsibility.

Is that what education in a rich Island like ours boils down to? If you go by the figures then that is the case. If you want good grades you will have to pay for them and have a supportive/nagging family

So Adrian et al – is this fair and what should be done about it?

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7

Pip Clement

Back in the days when the individual school results were not published the department was happy to bask in the warm glow of the fact that the aggregate result was better than the UK.
Year after year press releases pointed this out.
Plenty of people pointed out on here and elsewhere that this was almost certainly down to some schools achieving very good results and others achieving fairly poor results.
The department knew that this was true but in the usual way of the States it was ignored.
Now they cannot ignore it so the Department of Excuses has swung in to action. No plan to improve things, just it is all for the best in the best possible island and we cannot change things aka the usual bullsh!t

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9

Rozeljoe

My child went to one of these schools, did really badly, managed to get into Highlands, did an extra year, excelled and went on to uni.

So is that the child or the school that failed?

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11

Helen Back

Fight back from what! Its a joke! english as second language is no excuse im sorry.
Education has had millions spent on it over the years for what?

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13

JerseyScholar

If someone actually did the maths this is simple statistics – if we make the assumption that there are about 1,000 students in any one year group :

there are 9 secondary schools where students can take GCSEs, each will have, on average 100-120 students in each year group.

30% will be in States fee paying (selective) schools or Hautlieu – these students have been selected by nature of their academic ability – almost 100% should get 5 A*-C at GCSE.

20% will be in Church fee paying education – not delective, BUT their parents are more likely to be motivated and encouraging of their children to study and revise for exams. In addition, as they are selcted by ability to pay, their parents are more likely to be educated to a higher level, with better jobs. It should be expected that these children should perform perhaps 10% better than average?

That leaves 50% or so in the states 11-16 sector, which represents those who have not been selected for Hautlieu or the States fee paying by virtue of academic ability.

so, 30% x 1,000 @ 100% pass = 300 students
20% x 100 @ 80% pass = 160 students

If we assume that Jersey would perform around the UK average result of 69% that would give an expected number passing at 5 A*-c of 690 students. We’ve already accounted for 460 in the fee paying or selective sector as above. So, we shuold expect around 230 in the 11-16 non selective sector to pass. There will be around 500 students in these schools sitting exams.

230 ÷ 500 = 46% pass rate (expected). It is only to be expected that the States 11-16 schools will be under the UK average.

If we had the States 11-16 sector achieving UK average results of 69% we’d expect 345 students to pass 5 A*-C – which would mean that the Jersey average would be 80.5% – over 11% higher than the UK. A fantastic result if we could achieve it, but extremely unlikely.

Once you work out the maths, the explanation of the “Selective” Jersey system being the reason for the results is obvious. Please, let us not follow the UK blindly in just looking at academic achievement – we’d be failing our children if we did that – let’s look at expanding the range of vocational options at 14 and really get a workforce fit for Jersey – not just a load of academics in banks with no common sense or the knowledge to fit a plug, put up a shelf or fix a car or the plumbing…. Come on Jersey – we need a range of skills to run an Island, not just a few academic qualifications that will never be of use in later life for some people….

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15

Anon

Why keep these results secret ? James you would be lucky to have a 20% chance of surviving another election the way you treat the public as fools. You may have won St ouen’s but even they can now see you are not up to the job. As for the unions backing the secrecy, that is a disgrace after them calling for more transparency

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17

Alan H

So Deputy Reed says ”it’s inappropriate to make direct comparisons with the UK because our education system is so different”. Well Deputy, this spin does not work for me because at the ‘end of the day’ our students take the same GCSE and A Levels etc as the UK. Therefore comparisons published in the media are very accurate and indeed necessary as it would appear that our children are not receiving a proper education.

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19

Ex States School

I went to D’Hautree (Haute Vallee), 18 years ago. I had a great time. I have lots of fun memories of larking around and not doing any work. However my confidence was poor, and I always felt that the kids at private schools were better. My GCSE results were rubbish, but over the years I have forged a good stable career and earn enough money to send my children to private school. This decision was based on the fact that my kids would never feel that they were the underdog. They are of average ability, but they are encouraged and pushed to achieve to best of their abilty. My eldest is constantly undergoing tests and exams, and he is on course to do well in his GCSE’s. The recent news has only reinforced my decision to keep my children at Private School, and I feel very lucky that financially I have this choice.

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21

Andy

We all knew the results nothing surprising ,why we pay for our childrens education!

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23

Peeb

The hilarity of the situation is thus: if 50% the parents with ‘bright’ children, sufficient financial resources and above all the requisite parental SUPPORT sent them instead to Grainville and shunned the private colleges within 5 years we would all be witnessing 70%+ A-C grade passes at Grainville.

We would all be congratulating ourselves on what a ‘good’ school it was, no doubt. And yet ultimately we would admit that its new success would have been based wholly on it’s change of intake.

Why then are we so quick to label it a ‘bad’ school at the moment? Just look at the demographic it caters for and you will see that it does very well indeed.

I went to Grainville – didn’t do me any harm…got 2.1 at a respected University, professional career etc.

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25

The educationist

A lesson in mathematics

Lies, damn lies and statistics, so goes the adage. The headline figures say it all, that two schools on Jersey are failing! The figures don’t lie but nor do they tell whole story. Using the 5 A to C system (including Maths and English) a school that had a a 100% pass rate in every other subject in school but had a 0% pass rate in either Maths or English would register as having a 0% pass rate in their 5 A to C. Take a look at the overall rate for the schools and you will that this is what is happening. It is a shame for those subjects (and teachers) that are excelling when compared against UK statistics do not receive the acknowledgment their hard work deserves, hidden behind such headline statistics or the sterling work that goes on with special needs in both schools, the autistic, those with English as a second language and other vulnerable children.The readers are probably not aware that of all the children leaving the primary sector in Jersey aged 11, around only 40% of them have achieved the UK National average for Maths (60% are not up to standard!). If we assume that most of these go to a selective school then the real reason behind the headline statistics begins to emerge, that the bulk of the children in the State schools are already behind their peers in the UK before they even reach secondary. Yes the Jersey education needs accountability but it must be fair and equivocal and not put in the hands of Hawks such as John Mills. I also noticed that whilst all the statistics were being bandied about in the JEP one set was (conveniently)missing, the percentage of 5 A to C (including Maths and English) for the selective schools (nice one Ben!). I have done my own calculations and I have estimated that this comes out, on average, at 71% across the fee paying schools and of course Hautlieu. On the face of it this looks a lot better than the 20% at Haute Vallee and Grainville until you realise that with the fee paying schools also selecting on the basis of ability, their charges should all be achieving 100% pass rate at 5 A to C (including maths an English). This means that they are in fact around 30% down on their target. However, let’s put all the smoke and mirrors to one side and get to the real reason for the ‘revelations’. This is not about freedom of information or even mathematical statistics it is about the forthcoming debate on whether the States should continue to finance the Private schools. If we are to believe the headline statistics then that money would be best spent in the failing states schools.

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27

Charles

What is John Mills’ motivation in all this. It seems to be the fashion for a number of ousted public servants to indulge in this sort of behaviour.

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29

Old Boy

27 hawhaw

You miss the point (unsurprisingly ).
Sure, DLS and B didn’t (it has changed recently) take those with very special needs because this required different teaching regimes

What we need is the Value Added scores openly available.That will, I’m certain, tell a remarkably different picture to the Lundy line.

When the large quantity of ‘cannot any longer afford it’ refugees of the Reed /Ozouf blind cutting , end up at the fully States supported schools watch the quality drop and the Value Added disappear.

Support Reed if you want but the long term is more dire than the current situation. Oh, and by that time he’ll be back to growing vegetables (irony intended).

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31

St Ouens Resident

Deputy Reed You use Spin, Spin and more Spin you are trying to cut the Education Budget but we need to increase it for the sake of our children and future for Jersey everyone is intitled to a good standard of education not just for the wealthy get real. Look out for november as then the only things that you will be in charge will be your vegetables on your farm

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33

Haute Vallee Parent

Tates – Well said.

In Jim Perchard’s letter (yesterdays JEP) he congratulates the JEP for publishing the results. How can you congratulate them for demoralising two schools, it’s beyond belief!

No vote from me Mr Perchard I’m afraid.

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35

Working Mother

#19 (former Grainville pupil)

Like the former Haute Vallee student, I attended Grainville 22 years ago. I was of average ability, did ok in my exams but was never really pushed to do better or encouraged. I messed about alot, (not in a disruptive way) but just felt school was funny, and I didn’t pick up much from the teachers. I left school at 16 and went straight into the finance industry and have been there ever since. It has been in my adult life (late 20,s early 30′s) where I flourished in examinations. I am a Member of The Society of Trust and Estate Practioners and a Member of The Compliance Association (all with a States School background). I now wonder what I could have achieved at school with a Private School Education. I, like the Hautee Vallee Parent, have sent our 2 children to private schools, and they are both achieving far more at the age of 8 than I achieved at 13. I have experienced States Schools and there is absolutely no doubt that the “standard” of education is much much greater. For the parents of States Schools to believe this they are always welcome to attend the Private Schools opening evenings.

The main problem for all school leavers is life has changed. The finance industry no longer takes trainees with GCSE’S they want “A” Level Graduates, so this is a reason why the average working class family sacrifices alot to send their children through private education knowing the benchmark is so much higher than 20 years ago. Its nothing to do with being a snob, alot is down to worrying about your children’s long term job prospects.

One thing I can say about Grainville is at has great “FACILITIES”. Hautee Vallee school also has wonderful facilities, far greater than most of the private schools, but the private parents have chosen education over the “modern” States schools.

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37

whatev

Value Added counts for nothing in the real world of work, and to be honest it’s just clouding the reality. Employers don’t give a monkeys about the value added score of a school when they are sifting through loads of CVs. They look at cold hard grades when they’re dealing with school leavers with no previous experience. Personality does count for something, but you need to get the interview in the first place, but that isn’t so easy in a recession when you’re up against loads of people that did manage to get 5 Cs. It’s about giving students the best possible chance to stand up on their own, and get the job that is going to pay for their rent. How much value have they added when the kid is struggling to get a job and has to rely on state handouts to get by? It might count for something in the Ivory Tower that is Academia, but it won’t pay the bills, and it won’t put food on the table in a recession.

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39

Ingrid Toenail

I love the posed picture. A portrait of wisdom, serenity and statesmanship. Isn’t the camera a wonderful invention? So, for that matter are statistics; a wonderful tool in the hands of politicians and ultra-lightweight parochial spin doctors.

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41

Teach

@len

Go read Gary Burton’s letter in the JEP tonight for that definitive answer of yours.

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