Benefit fraud tip-offs flood in
Wednesday 23rd March 2011, 2:59PM GMT.
A HOTLINE and website set up to catch benefit swindlers have been flooded by Islanders seeking to shop fraudsters.
Since the public awareness campaign, ‘Benefit thieves – let’s stop them’, was launched by Social Security last week, the department has received nearly 90 tip-offs.
Contribution and enforcement manager John Poole said that he was delighted with the response.
‘As of Monday we had been contacted 87 times,’ he said. We had 51 through the phone line and 36 through the website,’ he said.
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a touch of the Occupation about it all….what a world.
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Good! im glad, Im sick of con artists basically stealing from all of us hard working tax payers, so they can get a flat, have a child or 3 and live the rest of there lives on benifits.
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yes,now it not if your caught.
its when!
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fantastic and about time too -its all about being fair, nothing do to with the occupation! At the end of the day it is stealing! How many times do we hear about cost cuts here and there etc etc, this might just start to right some of the wrongs inflicted upon the people in the middle, not rich not poor, not an ethnic minority, no disabilities etc etc cant pull any cards or claim for any kind of discrimination – just get on and pay our taxes like normal people do! join the club and get with the program!
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I actually know someone on benefits who has shopped her neighbour because they hate each other..
I would laugh my socks off if the neighbour did the same back.
How many of the 90 are actually going to lead to prosecutions?
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Es # 1. If you’ve done nowt wrong, you’ve got nowt to worry about. Benefit fraud is a form of theft and you can not liken reporting this, to the collaboration that allegedly occurred during the German occupation. It is churlish to suggest otherwise.
Hopefully the thought that someone might give information on benefit cheats, might deter some people. The money saved can be used on those unfortunate people who really need help.
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We will have to wait and see how many are genuine cases of fraud and how many are just malicious tittle tattle.
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Perhaps this is necessary, but if the people at Social Security were doing their jobs the situation would never be so bad.
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As some one said yesterday what about the real criminals the massive earners getting away with not paying any tax surely they i ripping us hard working middle class off. wonder what will happen to them? nothing i imagine!
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8
Agree with you.
Encouraging folk to be snitches is just as bad if not worse than the benefit frauds IMO.
Let them do their own dirty work,their getting paid enough!
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Memories of the German occupation send letters to the Commandant and have your neighbour imprisoned or worse sent to a concentration camp, most accusations were lies by people whom had grievances against there neighbours the same will happen now false accusations and worries for many innocent families disgusting Jersey at its best !!
Sieg Heil
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Mike # 11. I don’t think you can compare giving information on possible benefit fraud, to collaboration with the Germans during the occupation. At worst offenders who cheat the Social Security Department, will in the most severe cases will spend a term at La Moye, or more likely be fined and be asked to pay the money back.
If the Social Security Investigators use the National Intelligence Model, one report of potential benefit fraud shouldn’t by itself lead to action being taken. It is only when other evidence is collated, that further investigation might take place.
You obviously have no idea what the ‘Geheime Staatspolizei’ or ‘Gestapo’ were like, if you compare them to the Social Security Investigators.
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Splendid news. I really don’t understand the mentality of some likening this to the the occupation.
Perhaps these people are happy to see their tax bill increase every year to keep the benefit cheats in 4×4′s and wide screen TV’s.
Or perhaps they don’t actually pay taxes and are worried that they will be caught out!
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There’s an ad on a local site at the moment.
17 year desperate for 1 bed accommodation with parking and laundry facilities. No need to worry about the rent as Social Security are taking care of the finances!
I think that says it all.
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As a tax payer l understand we must not put up with fraud. But we must put this article into context. Our goverment waist of tax payers money makes the above problem insignificant.
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Bella #10
following your logic, if I can identify people who stole belongings from your home, I would be a snitch and ‘my crime’ would be as bad or worse than theirs? Is that what you are saying?
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(11) Mike Posted March 23, 2011 at 7:59 pm
(10) bella Posted March 23, 2011 at 7:29 pm
Ok Mike and Bella, I’d hate to contribute to people being sent off to a concentration camp, so if I see someone come out of the social security department with a benefit cheque, and then walk into your house and steal money from your purse or wallet, I’ll be sure to keep quiet about it.
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Can we also have a tip off line to report everyone we see speeding or using their phone while driving?
Logically, these people are stealing from our purse by not paying the fines that they should be levied.
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Benefit fraud is theft from those who work hard and pay their taxes.
The benefits are there to protect those of us who fall on bad times for no reasons of their own. (Multiple planned pregnancies and drug addiction by those that cannot afford it excluded)
It’s given by those that can, to care for those who are, unlike the “lucky” rest of us, incapable of working to survive.
We live in a caring society where to see fellow human beings (the above bracketed excluded again) dying on the street would be intolerable.
SO
es #1
bella #10
Mike #11
WAKE UP,
Forget the schoolboy snitch attitude. This is the adult world where the fraudsters are steeling your hard earned money that you thought was going to those in need.
I compare benefit fraud with steeling charity collection boxes; it shows what a despicable crime it is.
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Stealing out of your home is an entirely different matter.
I don’t believe in benefit fraud either,but could never snitch on some-one.
Why don’t they target the real issue,like putting locals in jobs that are going to new arrivals.
Any work going should be given to locals first and maybe they wouldn’t have to cheat the system.
There are a lot of bitter locals who can’t get work and they see all these newcomers as stealing the work they should be given first.
And saying locals are lazy is wearing a bit thin as well.
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Comment 9 – Local Lad
Yes the richer pay a lesser rate of tax but 10% on £1,500,000per annum is probably more that I’ll ever pay in tax in my entire lifetime…
We need these rich people to keep our island going and so if a lower rate of tax incites more of them to come and live in Jersey (and pay tax in Jersey) I’m all for it!
As for benefit theives… I’m sick to death of them! It’s not just those that have kids, claim as single parents when they’re living with their bloke who is also on benefits… The ones that really grind my gears are those that are too “depressed” to work and yes you can find them in the pubs/clubs every weekend having a great time! (And yes I have reported them!)
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17.jamesh1
Thank you for making my point { your quote:so if I see someone come out of the social security department with a benefit cheque, and then walk into your house and steal money from your purse or wallet, I’ll be sure to keep quiet about it.
17.jamesh1 So you see a person coming out of the SS building and automatically associate them with theft very biased attitude against people who are unemployed or ill the vast majority of claimant’s are honest people struggling to make ends meet
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All this talk of Benefit fraud. Looking around the Island, at our “elected” politicians, tax regimes, Business practices and development structure. I can only draw the conclusion that we are an amateur Island a really really amateur Island. I don’t see anything professional in our leaders. Benefits are basically the only bit of the Island’s money that finds its way back into the population’s pocket. Most of the rest of everything WE pay is waisted, lost, thrown away, given away or stolen. SO – Benefits – TAKE all you can – make the Island MORE efficient by actually guiding SOME of our hard earned TAX back into OUR pockets. I dont agree with fraud but this aint fraud.. its actually SAVING our politicians from themselves, after all they will only give the money away to someone else otherwise.
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15 – Gino Risoli
“Our goverment waist of tax payers money makes the above problem insignificant.”
I do love the image conjured up by your confusion between waste and waist!
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Mike – 22
“the vast majority of claimant’s are honest people struggling to make ends meet”
This is simply not true, it is the minority who are on benefits because of absolute necessity.
It is their choice to have children they can’t afford or sit in the pub all day. There is always work it just depends if someone is willing to pull up their sleeves and just get on with it for whatever pay is on offer.
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Bella # 20 said, ” Why don’t they target the real issue,like putting locals in jobs that are going to new arrivals.Any work going should be given to locals first and maybe they wouldn’t have to cheat the system.”
So are you saying that you don’t believe that the best candidate applying for a position should get the job? I was once discriminated against because I was not a local and because I didn’t speak Welsh, even though my qualifications and experience in the role were far greater than anyone else’s. I just swallowed my pride and applied for other jobs until eventually I got one. Your excuse for those who don’t get work seems pretty lame to me. People should provide proof that they have tired to get employment, rather than continually sponge of the States.
Cheating the benefit system is tantamount to theft and I would encourage people to report those people who are doing this, as it may deprive those who truely need help, because there isn’t enough money in the pot.
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I think it is fair to assume that the majority of benefit claimants are like the majority of tax payers and mostly honest.
There is some non declaration of cash in hand, payment in kind, rent from the spare bedroom, etc but the majority declare all or a very high proportion of their income.
Underdeclaration of tax is just as much theft as claiming benefits that you are not entitled to but we do not seem to have a snitch line for that yet
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I know of one lad who is out of work as he is ‘waiting’ for the right job to come along. This being in the finance industry regardless of the fact that he simply is intelligent enough. Meanwhile he is claiming benefits and is quite happy with his blackberry phone, PS3, two week holiday and trips to the uk to watch football matches. I can see why he is motivated to look for a job!!!
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More imported than folk on benefits doing a sneaky little job,in order to make ends meet and perhaps provide something for their kids,are the wealthy ones who avoid paying tax in a so called legal manner,this amounts to billions,pay more attention to them!
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22 Mike
I see you have avoided answering the question, so I will make it simpler ?
If I see somebody steal money from you, do you want me to:
a) Call the police
b) Say nothing ?
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Bella & Mike
Are you really saying that you’d rather let these scum steal our money then to have fellow hard working islanders be able to voice their concerns that someone is stealing the money WE pay to help those that NEED it!
Snitches? no! Honest hard working members of society? Yes!
Comparing it to the occupation? well thats just riduculous!
I can only imagine that people making such ill informed remarks are those who are scamming the system themselves. Here to try a defend yourselves eh?
Well maybe you should ask yourself, Why are you so upset about this hotline? guilty? scared someone will expose you and your cheating ways hmmm?
I will ask again, any chance someone can tell me what the website and phone number is? or at least where to find the damn thing! I have a few people i know of that id like to be investigated!!
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Bella,
Actually there is no difference. It’s all theft. However I note that you would never snitch, so I take it you will never call the police if you are robbed and you know the identity of the thief.
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Sounds to me that the agenda was put in place to save the Social Security a lot of money by encouraging people to “grass” each other, there will be a lot of man hours used checking every single report, and a lot of them will be bogus with some people just being vindictive.
They will have to get enough convictions to meet the cost of three new employees, pensions etc,.
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So it seems as though anyone who is claiming Income Support is now being labelled as a criminal on here! Nice to know that there are such understanding people on this Island and I’m sick of the ‘I’m all right Jack’ attitude of these people, as I bet they wouldn’t say no if they needed help from Social Security one day!
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If you have nothing to worry about, you shouldn’t give a monkey if you get reported or not.
People on benefits who are entitle to it, should also be grateful to know that fraudsters which could potentially arm their benefits have being taken care of.
You talking about the Gestapo now but Crimestopper is basically the same thing, so there is nothing new to my eyes.
It doesn’t change the fact that it is a sad thing when you think about it… so Jersey though
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here’s a tale. a woman was called upon in the early morning(states tenant)”we have been told you have a partner living with you , as there are mens shirts on the line”
tenant. “come in and look there is no man here”
the shirts are the one’s i wash, as my kids need new shoes”
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31
For your information I am not on benefit and have never been.
I have always worked,so had no need to claim for nothing.
32 theft comes in many forms,tax dodging is one which seems nothing is ever done about.
I just don’t like the way they are asking the public to do the dirty on others,I believe there were plenty already without asking for more.
Let them employ their own spies,give a few more some work to do,but to ask for informers is beyond me!
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bella why fish for a sprat when there are plenty of nice fat bass about?
31. RT good to see you back in another disguise.
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Jersey Boy…. Here’s the number and web link for you so you can report all those that you need to. keep up the good work… http://www.gov.je/benefitthieves tel no. (0800 735 1111) … OH – just be sure you’ve never done anything “inproper” yourself and you are totally clean. Gosh wouldn’t it be bad if anyone thought they were in some way better than anyone else. Who knows what the next “drop someone in it” campaign might be.
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#31 ‘Are you really saying that you’d rather let these scum steal our money..’
Should you be calling these people scum?
Many of them need the money for smoking!
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Jersey Boy: Definitely RTS speaks rubbish very bitter sad really not worth taking any notice of Bye bye RTS no one cares about you
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Benefit fraud is a crime. There is nonetheless a likeness here to telling on your neighbours in Germany, because both groups concern a “collective other” against which the majority turn. The common denominator is that of the perceived social pariah. The social security department will have its work cut out trying to weed out those cases which have merit and those which are purely malicious. I don’t envy the task which the officers must face.
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Jersey is becoming like that 80,s sitcom “bread” we will have cars piled on bricks soon ! hee hee. Jersey ” fools paradise”
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I have moved my boat to France, my big car to a private garage in the wilds of the country, My wireless set is hidden. When I go and collect my benefits I wear an old and dirty rain coat, so I´m sorted.
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I ask Bella and anyone else who chooses to answer.
If you saw someone whose identity you knew steeling a guide dog for the blind etc charity collection box, would you
(a) Say nothing?
(b) Rat on them?
Come on now Bella a straight question, no emerald waffle, a straight answer please.
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Thank you Mark, waste not waist.
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Life was always designed to be easy. Because we are not intelligent as a society we as a society have made mayhem from a place of perfection.
There are many different ways as there are different people to cause harmony, the trick is not to impose your beliefs on others, other than demonstrating in your thoughts words and deeds who you are there is nothing more that is in your control.
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#40
Its nice to know someone thinks I have one!
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News from the frontline, someone actually taking these calls says; ‘it’s a nightmare’. Bitter neighbours settling old scores, each claim, worthless or not (and many obviously are worthless) needs to be recorded and investigated. The message from the coalface is that this has disaster written all over it. Keep an eye on the ratio of calls and investigations compared to prosecutions and compare benefits recouped to the cost of the excercise.
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J-Cat #49
That’s how catching criminals works.
Hours spent trawling through what looks like nothing and then one piece of evidence/information and Bingo got the buggers who are ripping off those that need the benefit.
“Keep an eye on the ratio of calls and investigations compared to prosecutions and compare benefits recouped to the cost of the exercise”
Yes, but have you ever heard of principals and the fact that catching one will dissuade a lot more from trying it on.
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I know a local 22 year old who has not worked for over 2 half years & suffers with no illness. He is out everynight clubbing yet sleeps all day. Obviously doesn’t look for a job. Got the latest of all gadgets, yet when he was informed that his rent was going up he replied ” that’s ok Income Support will pay it” to which I replied ” I think you find that I am paying it” only to get laughed at. Now if that ain’t robbing the system then what is!!!
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45 PJG
You asked me what would I do if etc.
Well here you have it.
I would try and snatch the the charity box back by any way which, and if he held on to it I would kick him or punch him one until he let it go,and that is the honest truth,when I lose it I lose it big time.
38 Adrian you are right Instead of going after the small fry they ought to try the sharks!
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Bella says that she would try and snatch the money back by any way which by kicking and punching until the thief lets go.
This is where they are going wrong. Bella wants civil servants to go around banging on doors then beating the crap out of people until they have coughed up a confession and subsequently the thousands of pounds that they have wrongly claimed. Much better idea. Where can I sign up!
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PJG 45.
Re: If you saw someone whose identity you knew steeling a guide dog for the blind etc charity collection box would you
(a) Say nothing?
(b) Rat on them?
Why would anyone wish to rat on them?
If you think about it, overlaying charity boxes with steel is a fantastic idea…they would certainly last longer than the regular type!
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53.
That was just a tounge in cheek answer to a stupid question.
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BRING BACK WELFARE
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Blue Knight quoteYou obviously have no idea what the ‘Geheime Staatspolizei’ or ‘Gestapo’ were like, if you compare them to the Social Security Investigators
No I do not think social security would be like the above however the principle of the Hot-line is precisely the same as Nazi Germany and the East German regime encourage neighbour’s to inform on real or imagined wrong doings there will be without a doubt many false claims solely because of arguments and disagreements in fact many will be done out of spite will SS department record and file all complaints blacklisting all, even those found guilty of nothing the whole thing stinks to high heaven we pay huge salarys to civil servants let the investigate and do there job without pitting neighbour against neighbour
PS I I am not a states tennant have never been unemployed and own my own house both here and in Florida !!
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Whether you become an informer or not is neither right or wrong it simply defines who you are.
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To follow, who you are as you think of yourself, not as others see you.
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mmm 87 people and we get maybe £200 back from each one so that is £17,400… not enough to pay for one civil servant, let alone a team of them.
What a scandalous waste of money just tax and spend in disguise.
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Michael # 57. Hopefully the Social Security’s Investigators have procedures in place that will mean they won’t act on just vague reports and certainly not on anonymous reports. They should grade reports and only act on those cases where there is other evidence to substantiate the allegation. I agree it isn’t nice for folk to tell tales on their nighbours. I also agree some of these reports may be malicious and vexatious, but unless you can think of an efficient alternative, this will be one of the best ways of deterring and detecting benefit cheats.
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Bella
Perhaps we should outlaw childline after all that’s teaching kids to snitch at an early age?
Al Loy#54
“Steeling”
I always give spelling police at least one chance.
Consider this yours!
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PJG 62.
Ahh come on PJG, I was only pulling your leg. I have no doubt that you know the difference between “steal” and “steel”. But, I just couldn’t resist, especially as there’s a vacancy in the Spelling Police Department…now that Tobias has slammed the door and is never coming back…EVER!
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James, I think you fail to see that if 87 people are found guilty of benefit fraud, then regardless of what is retrieved, the fact is that if the minimum of £10,000 is saved per year per person because their benefits are stopped, that is a saving of at least £870,000 per annum.
4 civil servants at say £50,000 a year is still a saving of well over half a million to the tax payer.
And this is just 87 in the first week.
Bella, may I be so bold as to suggest that it wasn’t the question that was stupid.
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Al Loy#63
“Ahh come on PJG, I was only pulling your leg”
Next you will be telling me to “lighten” up?
T may not be posting but I bet he’s watching!
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64. Bean About A Bit
Not to forget that they might have to refund the money they took from Social for the years they’ve been found guilty of cheating
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@64
1) How many of the reports are actually true?
2) How many even if they are true will provide enough evidence to lead to prosecution?
3) How many will have enough money to pay anything back?
4) If they aren’t from Jersey they will just leave the island.
Are we really going to allow children to starve by stopping benefit because their mother had a boyfriend staying over they weren’t declaring?
The problem is that the system was taken off the parish where it was run by honorary members of a board and given to civil servants.
Civil servants are not interested in helping people in need only in helping themselves to pay rises and promotions.
I would rather see a 20% pay cut across the board for civil servants so we can give people in need more and then no one would need to cheat.
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Enable people to pay their way via decent wages. When people feel they are getting taken advantage of they will want redress, this is one avenue to get it for some.
Working for poor wages, in a bad job, with a bad boss, with no respect shown, is not the best way to encourage people to make an effort.
Gino there will always be informers. Yes the word informer has sinister overtones, some more steps down the road and you get to 1930′s Germany.
Some people are vindictive and like to make their neighbours life a misery, this will give them an extra tool for their trade.
If people want to break the system all they have to do is report each other, this would bring the whole lot to a grinding halt.
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JEEUS, JUST FOR ONE MONTH I’D LIKE YOU JUDGEMENTAL ARROGANT IDIOTS TO SPEND LIFE LIKE ME! I want to work, but it seems wanting to work for enough money to live on is a crime, I’m on full Income Support (I can feel the daggers!!) and I’m struggling, so you’d like me to go get a job at minimum wage, to work all hours to be worse off? Yeah right! YOU TRY IT! I rent in the private sector……not being a serial breeder like most of the income support people, or a druggie or a drunk (can’t afford it or I’d try it!) and there’s lots like me, so if i do the odd days work here or there then I’m hardly stealing, just trying to improve my life in one small way. Yes, there is alot of cheaters out there but stop tarring us all with the same brush til you’ve got out your big comfy houses and tried it!!
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Angry – take a breath for a minute. Now lower your expectations. All will be happy then.
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Angry # 69. You’ve pigeonholed yourself in the same bracket as the cheats. If you work whilst claiming full benefits and don’t declare it, then there might be a problem.
I am no brain of Britain (I left school with just one GCE ‘O’ level), however I’ve been in almost continuous full time employment for nearly 44 years…. in the past I’ve struggled on low wages, but never bought what I couldn’t afford and never lived beyond my means. You’ve got no reason to be angry, you are living off the state.
I now have an income of over £50,000 and own my own home and my mortgage is paid off. That might sound as if I am being smug, but if I can do it so can you. Get off your butt and motivate yourself, that’s all I did.
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Re: “Enable people to pay their way via decent wages.”
By far the most realistic comment on here so far!
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