Ministers ‘driving their own agendas’
Saturday 26th March 2011, 2:58PM GMT.
Chief Minister Terry Le Sueur
MINISTERS are driving their own agendas rather than the Council of Ministers’ because of a lack of central policy, the Chief Minister has said.
Senator Terry Le Sueur believes that a restructuring of his department is now needed to address the problem and ensure that the Island’s ministerial system of government – which was heavily criticised in a report published last week – can be a success.
In that report the Public Accounts Committee said the system was fundamentally flawed because the Chief Minister and chief executive did not have enough control over Ministers. As a result, it concluded, Ministers had almost ‘dictatorial powers’ over their departments and their authority could not be readily checked.
While Senator Le Sueur, who was speaking at a Scrutiny Panel hearing, did not directly refer to the report he conceded that the States was being driven ‘bottom up rather than top down’.
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Well he should know, he does everything Phil tells him too
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The Walker reforms are a mess! Like it or not party politics are a better solution, if not the only solution. Plus slim the States to 24 working Senators.
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Nothing would benifit this island more than to see this lot “driven OUT”.
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The Organ grinder and the monkey,,,methinks,,,
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Lack of leadership if it is being driven from bottom up
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This just confirms,what we have all said for a very long time.Mr T Le Suer,is not up to the job.he is in charge,,i think.he can’t even dictate,,,instead of being dictated to,,,,How can he possible be the Head man,,,,what a right old mess,,,,
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Well, Senator Le Sueur, you were a member of the States who voted for this ludicrous system. Name a single other state where the chief minister does not have control over his or her cabinet (not to mention policies – whatever that means in Jersey). I shook my head at the time – it was obvious to anyone with half a brain (with the exception of States’ members) that this system could not work. But then, in Jersey, we are well used to a dysfunctional government and parliament which survives only because of smoke and mirrors, obfuscation and lies, where no one is ever responsible for anything. Isn’t that so , Senator Le Sueur, you should know – just try to remember the fx fiasco, the unfortunate sick leave and retirement. There are many others, of course, no need to look further than the JEP over recent weeks. And there are actually some States’ members who can not understand why the electorate is apathetic …. plus ca change …. so, I’m not really expecting an improvement any time soon, if ever. Apropos nothing in particular, but being amused by UK petrol retailers putting up the price of petrol by 1p just so that they could put it down again, thereby making an extra penny per litre for themselves following the reduction in duty, has anyone seen the result of Senator Ozouf’s eagerly-awaited investigation into the shameful profit margins made on fuel in Jersey? Has he simply forgotten that he was going to look into the matter … not do anything about it, of course, just “have a look at it”, you know the usual guff that he must think that some people here swallow. Maybe the JEP’s investigative journalists can prod him on this one (and on the look into public-service salaries, or is that to be forgotten, too – the answer is yes, if the “civil” servants have anything to do with it.
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So the guy in charge admits he has no control. This will come as a big shock to those of us footing the bill for the lack of control over spending. Let us hope there is no gong for another clown like last time.
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It says it all when our economic minister is an estate agent, and his deputy is a mens clothes shop owner… Talk about “top men” for the top jobs . Dont make me laugh.Roll on the elections.
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You mean these Ministers are maybe, just maybe, following policies that they were elected to do by the people of Jersey?
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Quite agree – I am very much in favour of party politics or something to that effect where a manifesto is laid down and then if they don’t deliver the whole party could lose its power.
but no, some locals calling themselves elect2000 tried to promote the jersey way. Note that they were key members of two large local law firms Mourant and Carey Olsen i recall.
the existing system n my view only promotes covert dealings, obfuscation, and to the majority of voters (and writers on these JEP comment pages) it presents itself as corrupt. Dirty deals being done to keep the rich rich.
simply because no individual can get his personal agenda implemented without having to “deal” on other matters with other individuals with their own agendas. This facilitates lobbying of individuals and makes it easier (my view) to manipulate local policy/law to suit … such lobbying influence is beyond joe average voter, but not … wealthy lawyers who are probably somewhat brighter than any one of the council of ministers (who might also suffer from sycophantic pressures too).
we can but hope for change … however, it’s not easy, as we’re so small we’d end up with one party only (or one party + the JDA) and this usually ends up a pro-Finance versus anti-Finance argument!
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What I think Mr Le Sueur is driving at is that he wants a one party state with no-one having the temerity to object to any of their policies. We do not appear to have any checks on the actions or personal agendas of the Council of Ministers. Does anyone actually have the interests of the Jersey residents at heart? Do any of them actually love and care about Jersey as an Island?
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The pot calling the kettle black . . .
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The man ( Senator Le Sueur~)could not control a class of 11 year olds so how can he control a council of Ministers ?
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Mat (11).
How do you force in party politics. A politician would only stand as a party candidate if they believe it will help them.
At the moment they are not restricted by any party lines and have complete freedom. Why would you give that up if you didn’t have to?
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Well you don’t think Frank would allow anyone who might do the job better than him to succeed him did you?
Terry has only lined up Pippy because he knows that he will do an even worse job than him.
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Well whose fault is that Del boy? The Chief Minister is supposed to provide dynamic leadership and persuade his Government that his policies are right. He is supposed to inspire people…….say no more.
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This only proves what people have ministers are only interested in their own agenda’s.
What a bunch of jokers. These lot are a bunch of self-interested amateurs with zero interest in the general welfare in Jersey and its people.
They should all do us a favour and resign (incl. Chief Minister) and and replaced with qualified professionals immediately.
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“Well whose fault is that Del boy? The Chief Minister is supposed to provide dynamic leadership and persuade his Government that his policies are right.”
But the Chief Minister is the weakest member of the CoM without a department or a budget. Treasury has no power to control the expenditure of the departments.
The big barons of Health, Social Security and Education drive policy and the direction of policy there is in the hands of the civil service in some cases as we have weak ministers.
We have the semblance of cabinet government but really it is just the committee system with a coat of paint.
Not having parties is a good deal for the politicians in their voter attracting coats of many colours but it is a lousy deal for the electors who are just bystanders at the feast
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Balls up…very expensive balls up….needs complete reform….so that “rolling” power gets eliminated,constables get 1 vote between them and the rest of the representatives actually represent the electorate.
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All you lot whinge and moan – you have never had it so good. The state of Jersey compared to nearly everywhere else is glistening in comparison. There are problems, as is the case evrywhere, but the quality of life here is ten-fold greate than the UK. Look at fuel costs, in the UK fuel costs are at least 15p per litre more than here.
You only want to get rid of these people because you are bored. Fine, if I entertain this idea for just a moment – who do you propose?
Southern? Have a laugh! We will be destitute in no time.
Tadier? He has questioned the finance industry of Jersey, and as a result of his direct policies will end up with massive unemployment?
Rondell? Nice chap, but doesn’t have what it takes.
Shenton? It woudl be too onerous for him, as you only ever hear from him in an election year. Then he is exhausted until the next one.
Perchard? No thanks.
Breckon? Too left – woudl jeopardise the finance industry.
Maclean? Too scary for words.
Ferguson? You’re having a laugh aren’t you! Hasn’t a handle on even the basics.
Le Gresley? Too inexperienced, and taxation comments a bit dangerous.
Le Marquand? Potential – though will need support when it comes to numbers.
Cohen? Best suited to Planning.
So there you have it. Ozouf will be the best equipped to lead the COM, and hopefully he shoudl be allowed to select Ministers who are to follow his lead.
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Sorry – that is until the following election when you have on the list “Mr Real Truthseeker”.
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It does make sense to have the CM elected by the States for a set term (unless ‘impeached’), and who gets to select their own Ministry on this basis. Therefore this Ministry must follow the agenda by the CM, otherwise he/she can ‘sack’ the Minister.
On this basis, there is no need for party politics if by inherent structure this type of organisation is put forward. To have party politics means that we will need to elect more and more people, when we dont’ need to.
Before recommending a popularly elected CM, this SHOULD NOT happen, because firstly it happens no where else, and secondly, we elect our representatives in the States – then it is up to the States to identify who is best identified to lead the States.
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RT – You might be controversial but you talk the msot sense on these sites. I hope you do actually run as I suspect you will have a good chance of getting in as well!
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Another know nothing post from the Kiwi blow in.
The facts are that if you compare the prices of petrol, cigarettes and alcohol in the early eighties with their present prices we have lost an enormous advantage. They were approximately half or less than that of the UK rate whereas now they are around 80 – 90% of the UK rate.
Not only that but the roads were in A1 condition.
The fact is that the island has spent the last twenty years living off the road system built in that time and it is continuing to decline as repairs are not keeping up with the deterioration.
Income tax is creeping up as allowances are withdrawn and we have GST that I predict will rise again in a few years time.
Your listing reveals the paucity of talent in the States. Phillip Ozouf is really the only credible candidate as the others either lack a political base or have far too little experience.
However Philip Ozouf is coming from a position of failure; his cuts are more smoke than substance and he will face exactly the same problem as his predecessors, the Chief Minister
does not control the CoM or command a reliable majority in the house.
Also, the too scary for words, as you describe him, Alan Maclean is almost certain to be Treasury Minister as he is a key ally of Phillip Ozouf.
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“Before recommending a popularly elected CM, this SHOULD NOT happen, because firstly it happens no where else, and secondly, we elect our representatives in the States – then it is up to the States to identify who is best identified to lead the States.”
Perhaps when we have our first real general election in 2014 when all the members will be facing election.
It could be made a requirement that members wishing to be Chief Minister would have to;
1) Stand as a Senator thus gaining an all island mandate if elected
2) make it clear that they wished to be considered as Chief Minister
The States would then elect the Chief Minister from the successful candidates.
We have had two Chief Ministers without a political mandate or credible authority and the failure has been terrible and it looks like we are about to inherit a third.
It is essential to connect who we vote for with what sort of government we get and to
give the government political direction and the present system cannot do that.
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Marc – decent enough comments. I find it sad that the Chief Minister decides to raise a issue which he feels ought to be discussed, and the usual rabble on here complain about it. He has made a decent observation which he cannot himself change. This is an evolutionary process with the changes to the States.
Either way Marc – you have very valid comments.
Jon at 24: I agree completely!!!
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Pip – don’t disagree with the idea’s, however it is not up to the population to choose the Chief Minister. If the voters do that, then the States won’t function – the Chief Minister has to get the support form the majority of States members.
I don’t think the government political direction has antyhign to do with it – in fact it is the current makeup of the States which precludes it – and this is out of the power of the Chief Minister.
Therefore the Chief Minister is unable to adequately discharge his duties under the current framework.
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It is somewhat strange that the Chief Minister has waited this long to raise the issue.
He voted for the present system despite this manifest flaw and served three years under this broken system as Treasury Minister and over two years as Chief Minister.
It is too late to do anything about it before November so the next Chief Minister will inherit the same poison chalice.
More muddle and failure, but who cares? It is only the island’s government!
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“If the voters do that, then the States won’t function – the Chief Minister has to get the support from the majority of States members.”
But that is the problem at the moment, members vote for the Chief Minister with their fingers crossed behind their backs, that is the end of their support unless they feel like it.
Legislation is not coordinated because any back bencher can bring a proposition and it can succeed.
The house will vote to support the Chief Minister one week and then torpedo a main part of his policy the following week.
Look at the checkered history of WEB or if you can bear to, the incinerator or the Esplanade Quarter.
All three are or were political footballs that members boot around the chamber on a more than annual basis in long winded debates that decided only that the question would be revisited yet again.
I am not surprised that we lose senior staff on a regular basis, the muddle and infighting must depress anyone who thinks that public service is about changing society for the better.
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DISGUSTING… UNBELIEVABLE… These are OUR ministers, they should not be forced to drive their own agendas, what has happened to their chauffeurs?
The Ford Agenda is a fantastic car, but is quite a hard drive and we cannot afford for our ministers to be too tired to work when they arrive at their meetings!!!
This cost cutting has gone too far now!!!
Love & Hugs.
xxx
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Nice one, Anon,
Myself, I drive a Hard Bargain. I find them very economical.
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Actually, Anon, ‘Agenda’ sounds more of a Vauxhall name!
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What are you talkign about Pip? Why is the WEB and incinerator checkered? Several blips occur on any project.
Just because you didn’t get a position on WEB, or you disagree with the incinerator, doens’t mean everyone shoudl think it is checkered. There is nothing wrong, and the incinerator is a bloody good thing quite frankly. In time it will be one of the best htings for JErsey – contributing to its own energy production from waste – so it is more than just incinerating.
Pip – you amaze me, you keep coming back for more even after being proven wrong time after time….
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Some Ministers are not driving their own agendas.
They are in the back seat with their civil servants in the front with their hands on the controls.
Their only function is to absorb the flak and answer questions in the States or not answer them in some cases!
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Dear Real TrollSqueaker,
Obviously you were hiding under your bridge, or is it a stone, where you normally reside while the rest of us who actually take an interest in Jersey politics sat through 11 years of intermittent debates and the price rose from £60M to an eventual £110M+ including failure to hedge, the emergency road not included in the original plan, etc.
Pip, Pip
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I could also mention all the problems with WEB and the stop – go Esplanade Quarter but I think that might be too much reality for you.
The simple facts are that Senator Ozouf has stated that the present system is unworkable and needs reform and Senator le Sueur has admitted that the Chief Minister and the Chief Executive Officer cannot coordinate policy.
I was saying this long before they were, so if I am wrong it seems that I am now in some pretty good company while you seem to be becoming more and more isolated and ridiculous.
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RT – You really are the most obnoxious person I can ever hope not to meet. If you think Jersey is doing well you must be mad.It is about to fall in like a house of straw.
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Paul – Jersey is fine for those who get off their bums. If speaking openly, and having substantiated arguments with sound analysis based on facts, all designed to ensure the financial stability of Jersey is classified as “obnoxious”, then guilty as charged.
This must mean you are one of the lazy people, moaning abotu not having enough money, but I bet you spend it on new clothes, and waste money because you are financially irresponsible.
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“If speaking openly, and having substantiated arguments with sound analysis based on facts, all designed to ensure the financial stability of Jersey is classified as “obnoxious”, then guilty as charged.”
April Fool!
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Ph Pip after spending the last twelve months cutting to shfeds your illegitimate and illogical arguments, I can only guess you have been waiting 12 months to say that…
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Dear RealTroll Seeker, (aka PO)
Whilst it has been an engaging and sometimes a trivial past time countering some of your more wayward and uneducated views on the real state of Jersey and how bad its finances are, you seem to be a bit behind on what is happening in the real world of the working class and entrepreneurial people that make up the taxpayers of Jersey.
If you will allow me one moment of your time perhaps I may enlighten you as to some of the reasons why Jersey is in such a mess politically and financially.
I will start at the beginning… Our move to ministerial government was orchestrated by our now ex Chief Minister Frank Walker. This was at done because even 15 years ago people were outraged at what was happening in the Island. The move to our present dysfunctional system of government was not brought in by the states to help and stream line government but to ensure that the present people in power could not be voted out by the people. Rolling elections with the constables using a block vote works to retain power…. we all know this… so does the executive in government.
And it has worked very effectively to keep them their.
Financially money was going missing from states coffers left right and centre. The farmers were a famous one with the “great agricultural loans fiasco” scheme that when asked who had been paid millions in states loans no one could tell you the answer!
This is just one of thousands of examples of financial negligence from highly paid civil servants.. and its always the same cries of … “lessons will be learned” and “it wasn’t me it was him” I will list a few more examples for you… just in case you didn’t get the JEP over the past decade.
The Incinerator £100 million and rising
The Town park an initial start of £10 million
The Computer licences fiasco £11 million.
The Waterfront Complex £80 million at the last count.
The Les Pas Saga that saw Frank Walker give our waterfront away. This is now having hundreds of flats built on it that has generated millions for the property developers.
The open cheque for the child abuse enquire. £7 million and climbing.
The opera House £5 million originally spent plus more loans and now another £1 million.
The Income Support system £100 million and climbing.
I’m sorry I cant list every single excessive expenditure but I hope this helps give you a better picture why we are so open with our view that the people in government are not interested in the general populaces but rather in there own individual agendas and popular politics rather than implementing sound financial planning and control.
This is the one and only time that Terry le Sueur is correct in saying that they are driving there own agendas. We have all known this for a long time.
Kind Regards Blade
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Does this not show what a shables of a Govt we have Ann Pryke…gets in with no votes ,an uncontested election….then because she was a nurse for goodness sake gets to head up the biggest organisation with the largest budget…and with what qualifications one may well ask…now in fairness to her,and I have no personal dislike of the woman…she is woefully out of her league,I suspect she ran to Andrew McLaughlan for cover to bail her out when the waters were rising…it is in fact unfair on her to have been put in that position…letting her go would be a good start in getting some sanity back.
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