School league tables ‘counter-productive’
Saturday 26th March 2011, 2:57PM GMT.
Education Minister James Reed (second from right) at the hearing
SCHOOL league tables are counter-productive and can breed poor performances among pupils and teachers, according to the Education Minister.
Deputy James Reed told a Scrutiny Panel yesterday that he did not believe Jersey’s schools should be compared ‘like for like’ when it came to GCSE results because it could lead underperforming schools to lose confidence.
The meeting was called by the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny panel following the publication of all of the Island’s school results earlier this year by civil servant John Mills – via a Freedom of Information request and released against the department’s wishes – which showed that some schools were achieving well below others.
• See Saturday’s JEP for the full report
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How can the truth be ‘counter-productive’?
The Education Department is running scared now the truth is out.
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“School league tables are counter-productive and can breed poor performances”
Indulging these buffoons for a moment we can say – “OK, so try wheeling that excuse out NEXT YEAR”
The poor results to date were bred in a cosy environment of SECRECY and MISINFORMATION (lies by omission if being totally charitable). What is the EXCUSE for that ?
Oh! you think your department is doing well ??? !!!
- HOLY C***** !!, things are worse than I thought !
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Its a bit like the football league if they didn’t have tables then no one would know who is top, and who is bottom and needs relegating at the end of the season….
Too many excuses and not enough action in my opinion.
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Not so poor results..
http://www.lerocquier.com/
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‘The poor results to date were bred in a cosy environment of SECRECY and MISINFORMATION (lies by omission if being totally charitable). What is the EXCUSE for that ?’
The MISINFORMATION ironically is in the statement above.
Anne Lane and Richard Rolfe’s letter…
Firstly, the claim that the exam results have been kept secret for years is clearly incorrect.
Le Rocquier’s results are published to parents every year.
Secondly, the JEP has reported that the UK average of ALL (state and independent) schools is 53.1% 5A*-C grades including English and Maths and then proceeds to compare this figure with the results of state non-selective schools. This is not comparing like with like.
Thirdly, Le Rocquier School, along with most other Jersey schools, tests students in Years 7 and 9 using the cognitive ability tests or CAT exams. These tests are marked independently and the scores are used to set challenging targets for the school based on the ability profile of the group of students. Last year the CAT target for Le Rocquier was 43% 5A*-C; the actual results were substantially higher than this. This is known as “value-added”. This means that students achieved much better results than they were predicted, showing that staff draw out the best in students.
Fourthly, we admit students during the year with English as an additional language (or sometimes with no English at all) and, on occasions, just months before the end of the year when they couldn’t possibly be expected to gain their GCSEs.
Fifthly, the school community is proud of the fact that we cater for very able students who gain A*/A grades across a range of subjects, but we also cater for students who find academic work challenging. We have introduced a range of ASDAN, Entry Level, BTEC and City and Guilds courses to specifically tailor our curriculum to the individual child, rather than a ‘one size fits all’ solution. This includes, for example, a City & Guilds qualification in Construction, which includes plumbing, wiring, painting and decorating skills. We also have over 25 students undertaking work experience at least one day every week as part of their curriculum; helping them to gain employment when they leave Le Rocquier School.
If we wanted to play games with league tables we would cancel all these courses and just focus on the academic subjects, however, we as a school believe that education is about maximising each individual child’s potential, whether academic or otherwise.
Publishing A*-C league tables belittles the students who could never achieve an A*-C grade. This also therefore discriminates against students with special needs and undervalues those students who achieve a grade “D” against all the odds.
Please do not misunderstand us, we fully support accountability and sharing information in an honest and open way, but for information to be published accurately the full context should be given.
Lastly we would like to take this opportunity to thank the dedicated and hard-working staff (many of whom have been in school this half-term supporting students), who work tirelessly with our tremendous parents to support students whatever their starting point in life and whatever their ability.
Anne Lane, Chairman of Governing Body
Richard Rolfe, Headteacher, Le Rocquier School
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March 2011
Dear Parent / Carer
I wanted to write to all of our parents today following a week of misguided and unacceptable reporting in the media regarding articles on GCSE exam results and in particular the 11-16 state schools in Jersey. I
strongly reject assumptions and the misguided judgements made, that suggest students at Grainville are
not successful or in any way do not achieve. Students do receive a good education at Grainville and past
and current students should be proud of their achievements. Katie Le Quesne, Chair of Governors and I
have written to the Editor of the Jersey Evening Post (JEP) as a right of reply to express our serious
disappointment that an article printed on Wednesday last week and in subsequent reporting continue to
infer 11-16 non funded state schools are underperforming and in some way our students are not receiving
the support and direction that they need.
What is clearly lacking in recent reporting is the intelligence to distil a Jersey perspective to the differences within our education system here and not to make comparisons with the UK. It is clearly obvious to any observer that the fee paying and private schools are very different to the four state 11-16 schools. It is also true that there are some big differences too within the 11-16 schools due to catchment and from year to year, differences between one intake and the next. For example, some 11-16 schools take in more students where English is a second language, others have an autistic provision for secondary schools.
Some 11-16 schools actively engage in vocational courses and Work Related Learning, these do not count
as A*-C GCSEs, but are the right courses for some of our students. I am rightly proud of the fact that every Thursday 50 Year 10 & 11 students are actively engaged in Work Related Learning, and for some this leads to the offer of employment and apprenticeships. I am happy too that our Year 10 students now have
the opportunity to study from a range of vocational BTEC level 1 courses at Highlands. None of these
students will appear on the 5 A*-C register, yet all are receiving an education that meets their needs. This
was not reflected in the sensational news headlines.
I believe it is very important that schools are accountable to the students and parents and wider
community. In my capacity as Headteacher here at Grainville I know how well we are doing, our strengths
and areas for development. I am extremely confident in this knowledge. I also understand data very well
and the need to have a context to data used to inform any decision-making.
Staff, students and parents are all upset by the misleading and damaging reporting over the last week. In
England the system of using 5 A*-C level was replaced in 2006 by a league table of Contextual Value-
Added (CVA). Since 2006, schools and OFSTED inspections in England have been using this CVA
measure to judge a school and progress it makes. The CVA analysis of data is more sophisticated than
the broad ‘one size fits all’ approach of 5 A*-C. CVA takes into account the prior attainment of a child,
date of birth, gender, Special Educational Needs (SEN), English as an Additional Language (EAL) as well
as other social factors. By taking these into account comparison between schools is possible. It is also true
that comparing the 3000 schools in the UK (not 30,000 as reported in the JEP) is easier because only 7%
of students are educated in the private sector and 93% of students go to non-selective comprehensive
schools. In the UK the old two tier system of secondary modern and grammar schools were phased out in
favour of non-selective comprehensive schools in the 1960’s. Jersey retains this two tier system with
selection at various levels and ages including 14+. Therefore trying to compare without a context is wrong.
It belittles the hard work of teachers, support staff, students and their parents.
At Grainville we are rightly proud that our students achieved the highest number of A* grades of all the 11-
16 schools and one private school last summer. This is a reflection of the high academic success that can
be achieved across a range of subjects, not reported in the JEP or other media. We always openly publish
our school results on our website and discuss them openly with our school governing body. We do not hide
them. Please take a look at the link below to see for yourselves.
http://www.grainville.sch.je/Parents-&-Community/Exam-Results-and-Information/
The JEP has singled out Grainville for its results in Maths, English, and Science at A*-C. The data used
was inaccurate.
• For the record 19.4% of students achieved 5 A*-C including English and Maths and not 18%.
• 41% achieved an A*-C in English Language, 28% an A*-C in Maths, with 19.8% gaining A*-C in both
and 3 other subjects, hence 5 A*-C including English and Maths. In terms of English and Maths,
students broadly met their A*C targets in these two separate subjects and exceeded them in English
Literature 49% A*-C.
If you were to list GCSE subjects in which students broadly met or surpassed their targets at A*-C last year
the list would contain the following subjects:
Art, Photography, Business Studies, Child Development, Drama, English Language, English Literature,
History, ICT, Italian, Music, PE, Psychology and Spanish
At Grainville we set objective GCSE targets based upon CAT scores. In 2010 71% of all student grades
achieved or surpassed the CAT targets. For every student their respective CAT targets are based on their
potential. For some subjects students surpass these targets and in doing so add value. The JEP made
reference to performance in Maths and English at grades A*-C. Based upon CAT targets 70% of students
met or surpassed their CAT target in both Maths and English. For some students their target may have
been a grade E or a D, and not A*-C but still a target grade based upon their own potential which has value
and this progress and achievement is worthy of respect.
Grainville School does not deserve the recent poor publicity linked to exam league table comparisons. As a
parent you will have seen that change continues at Grainville School as we work towards making our
school the best it can be, equipping our students with the skills, experiences and qualifications ready to
take their next step, aged 16, into employment, Highlands or Hautlieu. I would urge parents to write to their
elected states member and the editor of the Jersey Evening Post in support of our school to make your
views heard and to put the story straight.
I will end this rather unusual letter by repeating an earlier comment. Staff and students should be proud of
achievements at Grainville and the broad curriculum that we offer. Like the staff, Grainville students will feel
very angry and let down by the manner in which examination results have been reported. I hope that this
letter helps to reassure you and put the record straight.
If any parents would like to discuss the recent publicity I would be more than happy to meet with you to
discuss the recent reports. Please do not hesitate to make an appointment with the Office Manager on 822921. Finally, please be assured that I, together with the dedicated and committed staff will continue to support, inspire, challenge and motivate each and every student to maximise their potential.
Yours sincerely
John McGuinness
Headteacher
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Lose confidence Deputy Reed? We lost ours in you some time ago, resign now before you make yourself look a bigger idiot than you do already!
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It’s the quality of the teachers that is important… Les Quennevais has some wonderful teachers who inspire the children to greater things… unfortunately as in any large organisation they have some bad apples and this is what needs to be addressed.. Some teachers seem to have nothing better to do than prowl the corridors seeing if anyone’s shirt is not tucked in and some put the students and their work down, telling them that they must listen to them as they have A levels and a degree!!…Praise and encouragement is proven to work better…
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Historically the comments on here re educational issues are always VERY busy! How interesting to see that the usual suspects are very quiet……..could this be something to do with the factual, emotive and necessary posts here from the Chair of Governors and Headteachers of Le Rocquier and Grainville? I hope so.
Mrs M (no8)….if you have grievances in relation to Les Q i hope you have let them know, rather than just voicing them on here.
It has been a strange few weeks in the States system since the mention of league tables. As a member of staff working in this profession i have witnessed student anger, teacher deflation but have also noticed all are working together to ensure that the impending grades are the best they can be, EVEN if they do not reach the ‘pivotal benchmark’ of A*-C (some students just ARE NOT capable – it was the same when you went to school you know!), but an improvement on their VA score. See above if you are unsure what that means.
I look forward to Easter – where i will spend some of my holidays inviting in students who want to improve on their coursework grades, preparing students for their examination etc – no rest for the wicked (and i must have been VERY wicked somewhere along the line!)
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I know St Ouen is somewhat isolated but James Reed must live in a world of his own
Simply afraid of the truth. If this proves that something is broken fix it !
Initially voted in by 519 supporters, friends and family members I suppose he will get in unopposed again this year
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An A grade in English and a fail in Maths is not a compromise OR something to be proud of.
I refuse to believe that any student is ‘NOT CAPABLE’. The quality of teachers, schooling or equipment isn’t the be all and end all. I think it’s a matter of work ethic amongst all members of the education community.
Whatever reasons Head Teachers, members of the Education Department or any other gives for the shocking revelation of under-performing schools, it is unacceptable that so many young people are obviously not being provided the services or attention needed to get them a handful of decent GSCE grades. The schools are failing students and in turn failing the island. No wonder local companies need to turn to non-local applicants to fill their vacancies. There aren’t enough adequately educated locals to go round.
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Observation #9
Not gone away.
Like yourself, “very wicked” and engaged elsewhere.
Absent without note !!!
Back shortly – Brace yourself ? (?)
HIDS x.
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This has reminded me of a primary school teacher telling me ‘bullying is a normal part of school life and your child will just have to get used to it’…. She still works there !!…
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Did I say (@12) “Brace yourself? (?)” ? – I must think I’m a “real man” or perhaps it is Alpha Male “Real Truthseeker” (the antidote to antipodeans for girls {&boys} everywhere ?) for whom you pine in your post #9
It’s those awkward question marks that make you think ?
While I tend to be a bit abrupt – the whole point is DON’T BRACE YOURSELVES !
This debate should not be about the teaching profession closing ranks to protect itself -civil service style.
This debate should be about identifying problems and being more inventive with potential solutions (can Reed/Lundy help us on this? – “I don’t have an answer to that” they say regarding dealing with the publication of results next year – NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, but apparently beyond our top men in education !!! as I said in #2 – HOLY C***** !!, things are worse than I thought ! )
Syvret was accused of undermining “staff” moral to give the impression that he was bullying nurses and doctors while he was encouraging SENIOR STAFF to take ownership of RESPONSIBILITY not just their £200k+ pay packets.
Post by “Hautlieu Student” #92 :
******************************************
******************************************
(NB “Hautlieu Student” above appears to also be a supporter of teachers)
Does this indicate that there might be a problem ?
(whole bunch of them)
What might the pragmatic solutions be ?
(Please try to avoid the civil service and dogma driven solutions !)
Hi Mary #13 -not exactly zero tolerance to bullying is it ? – perhaps bullies should be rewarded ?
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Ref. my post #14
The quote from “Hautlieu Student” (Ex H.V. student) is one of my favourite posts and is available at
http://www.thisisjersey.com/2011/02/23/school-exam-worries-revealed/
Comment number 92
My post #14 makes (even?) more sense with this.
Thank you “Hautlieu Student”
(and by the way REALLY WELL DONE TO YOU !)
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Hi “Miss Information” #5
Did Rodger Hargreaves overlook you in his ‘little miss’ books ?
You say @5 :
“The MISINFORMATION ironically is in the statement above” -Ref. my post #2
(The poor results to date were bred in a cosy environment of secrecy and misinformation …)
“ironically” I may not have been referring to Anne Lane or Richard Rolfe.
(Staff etc. who I may well support)
I may have been referring to past statements by REED & Co.
- or perhaps you feel that they have, up to date, given a FULL and frank account of the situation ?
Especially for you and for CONNOISSEURS OF IRONY EVERYWHERE :
One of the “buzz words” in classrooms today is to equip pupils to be ADAPTABLE to a quickly changing world and labour market.
This in a (public) sector that appears so AVERSE TO ADAPTATION and flexibility.
This is the information age – work with it not against it !
More ironically the way forward may be to re-learn some of the education lessons of the past ?
(improving them & keeping one foot on the ground ?)
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Hi Observation #9
You say: “As a member of staff working in this profession i have witnessed student anger, teacher deflation but have also noticed all are working together to ensure that the impending grades are the best they can be” *
- WOW ! (and well done them & you; keep it up!)
- so, to be clear, your on the ground experience is that even the (flawed?) reporting of results by the JEP is ALREADY ACHIEVING BENEFITS ! *
(I hope you are right but let’s wait and see)
I don’t say this often but – THANK YOU jep*.
Well worth a bit of “student anger” ? – could this be educations great untapped resource ?
STRANGELY ENOUGH -Yes !
- well not so much “anger” -more emotion and reward from competition.
- might even re-engage some of those BOYS so that they can catch up with the CLEVER GIRLS !!
- Did some of those boys/girls stats slip in under the radar or did the JEP make another little “typo” there ??????
*IRONY OVERLOAD ?
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Keep it interesting -School can be VERY BORING – ask any kid.
There is no need to ridicule anyone, but if we don’t reward the winners we might find ourselves with a classroom full of “losers”.
How can it take the “Edu-dogmatists” ~30 years + to learn this lesson ?
Competition is fierce in the real world – it is a PC mistake to try to protect kids from it for too long.
Learn Test Improve – Learn Test Improve – Learn Test Improve …
Life is not a game show but have you noticed how many there are on TV ?
- how interesting ?
Doh!
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Problems often start in the junior schools before “progressing” to Senior.
Just a thought:
More engaged pupils (x2 for boys) = less disruption & bullying etc…..
It’s like one of those beautiful “circle of life” things.
The real challenge is achieving it – over to you guys.
good luck !
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Problems often develop in the junior schools before “progressing” to Senior.
Just a thought:
More engaged pupils (x2 for boys) = Less disruption & bullying etc…..
Less disruption & bullying etc….. = More learning ……..
More learning ……………………… = More engaged pupils ……..
More engaged pupils (x2 for boys) = …. etc. etc.
It’s like one of those beautiful “circle of life” things.
Beautiful only if the “feedback loop” is not flowing in reverse !
The real challenge is achieving it – over to you guys.
good luck !
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Wow only read a few comments but everyone loved Le Rocquier – incidentally I had the misfortune of going to Le Rocquier between 1997 and 2000. I arrived from a large primary school in Birmingham – I took the 11+ higher SATs and got level 6′s to 7′s in all (child prodigy – go figure!) however after three years at Le Rocquier my results didn’t go up they stayed the same level…in fact my level 7 in English went down to a level 6! so the school hadn’t really taught me anything. Needless to say my parents were outraged – I changed schools to Hautlieu and sure enough I acheived straight As and A*s at GCSE.
So yes I do believe it’s the schools fault and I do believe it is the right of EVERY parent to see these results before deciding whether to enroll their child at that school. There are a multitude of different factors that affect results but we have to have factual information before we can decide where to send our children to get an education (An academic education – not one in how to skive school, lie to get what you want, and roll a decent joint)
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Back in the day, when I left primary school my mum made me go to De La Salle to take the exam to show whether you are clever enough to go there. At least thats the way I remember it. I passed easily as it happened but put my foot down and stated that if I dont go to Grainville where most of my mates were going then I simply wont turn up.
It worked, I went to Grainville. After a few years there it was obvious I should have gone to a better school. What makes it obvious is when a mate of mine and myself tried to get into set 1 maths as we were clearly able to do the work. I am not trying to be a big head here even though it may sound like it. Anyway, the answer was its too late, you are in set 2 and thats the way it will be.
That is a typical example of the encouragement to work hard I got at Grainville school. Zero. Suffice to say after making the effort and being turned down on the basis that the Sets were already determined I gave up and ended up with rubbish results.
That was a long time ago though and since then I have used adult education etc to get a career in software devolpment and am doing alright.
The point i am trying to make is that if that was the state of encouragement back then I find it very hard to believe it has got any better. In my view the state of public schools has gone downhill especially when I here peoples response when I say I went to Grainville. These days the answer is along the lines of, wow, you certainly have done well for yourself coming from that dump.
Sounds like it has really gone downhill but in fairness I did enjoy my time there doing bugger all!
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@21 lula
Often there is an overestimation of ability particulary at the higher levels from primary schools, while the sat’s tests and the 11 plus are good indicators of ability they are just tests that can be revised for and taught to, which many primary schools did. This was the very reason the the SAT’s were abolished in the UK.
If you were getting level sevens and sixes straight out of primary school then there is very little movement upwards as a level 7 is the highest level on that particular grading system and would indicate that you would have got an Aor A* at which ever school you went to.
I am all for transparency in education but there needs to be the ability for schools to work together and not be in competition with each other due to league tables. We as an island are too small for raw data to be released and used by anyone to make judgements.
I would suggest that you take alook at the scrutiny website over the comming weeks and look at the transcripts of the meetings held at the Pomme D’or Hotel. this will give you a better understanding of how the system does work in jersey, and the areas that need to improve.
Finally I am sure that the School you went to over 10 years ago has moved along way forwad in the past decade and any failings you may have percieved at that time have been worked on over and over again by the hundreds of professional, qualified people who everyday take education seriously enough to actually care that students have the opportunity for a bright future in this island.
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Hi lula #21,
I think that “jdg” is right that you cannot get above 7 as it is the max. However he indicates that you may have been “hot housed” at your school in Birmingham (inner city?) -perhaps you could give us more information -oops sorry, must not make comparisons with UK schools.
There seems to be a presumption of denial from all public sector commentors on these pages.
Come on – you are the professionals – you tell us what the problems are and suggest tried and tested AND/or innovative ways in which schools, learning and results can be improved.
Perhaps some private school teachers would also like to comment ?
Was I making any sense at all in posts Nos. 17, 18 & 20 (sorry about 19) ?
THIS IS EVERYBODIES PROBLEM – Today’s school leavers will be paying your pensions – Jersey needs to be “fit for purpose”.
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In the full JEP article Reed (& his sidekick Lundy) say “I don’t have an answer to that”
when asked about how to deal with the INEVITABLE publication of results next year.
(WHY !! , hadn’t Reed & Lundy discussed this ???)
Perhaps we should put them out of their misery ?
NO NO not that… – I mean by making a few suggestions ………
(not humane destruction)
- though “putting out to grass” might be an idea
- even if a 2/3 final salary pension does seem excessive
One would have expected that two minutes thought could have produced something like:
We will publish the results ourselves, in full, including vocational qualifications explanation of schools circumstances and catchment and all possible details on value added etc.
The data will be presented raw as well as with presented corrected for needs/autism etc.
(better still get an independent inspectorate to interpret the results -but remember even inspectorates often like to please their paymasters).
Maybe even make suggestions on how the school experience and education/results can be improved. GOD FORBID, even ask for advice from the private and faith schools – they seem to be managing, and it is not all about money !
BUT NO !
Reed/Lundy -RABBITS IN THE HEADLIGHTS !
Break or Accelerator pedal ? – well I suppose they are “fluffy”.
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lula you are right Le Rocquier has had a bad reputation in the past. It does however seem to have improved alot due to the present head’s efforts at turning it around.
Hedinda it doesn’t really matter how qualified today’s youngsters get, the demographic time bomb threatens today’s 30-50 year olds. How are a relatively few workers going to support a large number of retirees?
Also since more and more jobs are becoming minimum wage now money is going to dry up. I can’t see many youngsters hanging around to enable minimum wage employers to make use of them.
As I have said before it is good to have league tables, it helps give an indication as to how good or bad a school is when parents are deciding where to send their children.
Obviously there is the grape vine which gives parents an idea but it is good to have it backed up with a league. It appears some like Granville are still getting a tonking. I remember my friend not being impressed with the school when his kids had to go there ten years ago.
I think it would be good if parents were offered a choice of where to send their children and not be tied to their catchment area as at present. The only options they have a present is to send thousands sending their children to a fee paying school, or spend thousands moving house to get into their prefered choice.
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#25 The only chance of turning around schools nowadays is bringing back discipline and showing kids that an education really is worth having. And by that I mean parents expecting their children to behave in class and show their teacher some respect, and disciplining them if they don’t. Unfortunately we’ve had the namby pamby “children should get to play more” types running the world for too long.
Children are leaving school with nothing like the basic ability their parents had. And I really don’t care how much today’s education boards try to deny that, a simple comparison of o’Level books and what children have to learn today is enough to see the truth.
It’s true that our children do also need to learn some different subjects to previous generations but, if anything, the basic skills we need nowadays are greater (not less) than for previous generations. With worldwide communication at our fingertips the ability to be ripped off is far more prevalent and basic skills can help people understand many different areas of life to a great enough level to prevent this happening to them.
Also, the fracturing of the subjects into such specific areas at such a young age of 16, 14 even, is detrimental. With more subject choice at university than ever before it is dangerous for children to narrow down their choices so early on, especially as we are becoming more indecisive (due to having more choice).
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