Minister urges House to back Esplanade financial district
Thursday 19th May 2011, 2:58PM BST.
The Esplanade car park is to make way for office blocks
THREE major finance firms are considering investing in as-yet unbuilt new £120m premises at the Waterfront that could net the States £6m per year, Environment Minister Freddie Cohen told the States yesterday.
The Senator made the announcement in a speech urging them to maintain support for developing a major new finance district on the Esplanade car park site.
And he indicated a possible change in policy on the Waterfront, saying that the States-owned Waterfront Enterprise Board ot its successor, the Jersey Development Company, could act as developer and landlord for the scheme, instead of carrying out the work through a third-party.
There is currently no commercial developer attached to the scheme – which will include 400 new flats – after developers Harcourt dropped out when they failed to meet a deadline to prove they had the money to do it.
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with rising sea levels, it’ll all be underwater in 25 years
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Come on suprise me, who will get the deal to build all this? can we place bets?
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No commercial developer can be found that can raise the money or take the risk.
No problem for Phillip Ozouf, Freddie Cohen et al, WEB aka JDC will take on the risk.
Doubtless the poor bloody infantry aka the Jersey taxpayer will underwrite the whole scheme so if it goes belly up the resultant black hole will drain islander’s pockets for decades.
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A wild guess who is Freddie’s favorite development company surprise, surprise, Dandara watch this space see who gets this plum site good old Freddie roll on the elections bye bye Freddie
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What!!!! so now they want to risk building in the hope of finding tenants. What a bunch of absolute idiots, please don,t risk my taxes this way. Referendum on this development is a must!!!
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Has nobody learnt from the state intervention of the Labour Government of the 1970s? It was a disaster. If it is a good investment let the developer pay, but no States of Jersey money! Is that where all my GST is going?
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Parking is already at a premium in St Helier so building yet more offices on a car park doesn’t seem to be the brightest idea.
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Sorry Freddie but this is a step too far – if you con’t persuade an independent developer to do this then it is insanity for the States to try to get it off the ground. This would be a recipe for disaster.
The economics have always been questionnable – when Freddie first took this to the States he told them it was worth £125m to the people of Jersey – omitting to mention that we would have to buy back our car parking from the developer, and “valuing” the underpass at £40m – which implies that the people of Jersey have always passionately wanted a tunnel past the Grand Hotel but just couldn’t afford to pay for it.
No – I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt on Portelet but this would truly be Freddies’ Folly (or rather ours!).
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The article says ” Considering ” and there are only three for how many thousands of square feet.
Thats ok though as the uk economy is forging ahead at great speed, Portugals bailout, and Greece teetering on the edge of financial meldown, not forgetting Spains financial wobbling, should be of no concern to Jersey as we are obviously not effected by outside financial worries or spending cuts.
The only problem we have is the ego’s and stupidity of politicians on Jersey who have an agenda based on self interest.
Davey West.
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Well as they said in the Profumo affair.”HE would say that wouldn’t he” Have shown interest…? show me the money Gerry…this man is a nightmare, trashes Portelet, singlehandedly overides the planning committee in favour of another States member,allows the bastardisation of the Corbier train station,and look at the mess…I simply wish you would go away Freddie ..you are a nightmare.
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Freddie
NO NO NO NO
What the hell do you think you are doing some of the town office buildings are unoccupied so redevelop those first.
But like ever you will not listen to pubblic opinion
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PLEASE don’t do this – for all the obvious reasons. Why not delay until after election so candidates can stand or fall on it as an issue? Because they’d fall I guess – like Guy d F’s incinerator legacy, this will be Freddie’s in town legacy. I hope his descendants will be too embarrassed to admit it.
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This will be a disaster – £120 million spend – err we are talking about the States here – it will cost double and woe betide us all if there is any foreign currency involved – add another 50%
Vote them out at the next election
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lets see if the ex swansons site is filled, and the corner of patriotic street filled before committment.
heaven forbid the end of green street is let, its not even fitted out still a “see thru” after all these years.
apparently the uk owe more than portugal in debt.
are we out of woods yet?
who are the big three investors??
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more to the point where will the current users of the GOOD carpark go, its full by 8am.
where will the new office staff park?
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Why the hell do we need these builings? There are soooo many empty offices in St Helier already, and there are getting more and more everyday. The finance industry in Jersey is stagnant, and definately not growing. Plus St Helier is desperate for parking spaces. Town retailers are already struggling, and everyday you can see lots of cars cruising around the Espalnade car park looking for spaces. These space will go. First of all when it is being built on, then the underground car park(if we get one) will only have spaces for the huge office blocks on top. Still, with more builing in the area, it will fit in nicely with the surrounding area, which is a complete mess and an eyesore.
The people of Jersey will be left with another of Fraddies disasters, and a huge £125 million debt to pay.
Well done Freddie. Can’t wait for the next elections.
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This will be the final curtain for jersey reatailers in town. Parking is already a nightmare, and with these spaces gone, no-one is going to bother coming into town.
Well done Freddie (and I bet Dandara are rubbing their hands with glee, as I’m sure they will be at the top when it comes to picking the developers)
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Freddie: Considering…
Big word that.. does not mean WILL, or DEFINITELY.
And investing in and renting are two very different words.. A real Estate Fund could invest in it but only if someone would want to RENT it..
Additional 400 flats? Still availability at Castle Quay, Spectrum et al.
Freddie you seriously need to go.
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It s going to be like New York soon: no more direct sun light.
Gloucester St was sun free, cold and windy the last time I walked there.
There isn’t much daylight with this stupid UK time Zone as it is without having more of this Cohen extravaganza building spoiling our sun.
I hope he is planning to build an underground car park to compensate for the one going.
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Although I don’t approve of Death Threats he still tries to ruin this island.
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Some very expert scientist predict sea levels rising as much as three metres in the not too distant future. Not what l would call a good investment.
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Another addition to the CoM election shopping list.
So far we have a new hospital, hundreds of homes for social housing and now this.
I bet we will see the resurrection of the bridge to France idea in the next few years.
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Given the complete catastrophe that the Waterfront and surrounding Esplanade has become, Senator Cohen and WEB have no right to expect the public have any faith in their future ability to oversee such a scheme. Even now we see a monstrous building that whilst only half complete has put the whole of Payne Street into darkness. What consideration was given to the current buildings remaining or will these old buildings suddenly become delisted and replaced by more concrete and steel. The Waterfront is already a disgrace with little or no evidence of any actual thought given to “fit for purpose” or design strategy other than “cheap”.
What St Helier does have is a shortage of parking and the only functional and well-designed aspect of this whole section of town is the open car park. For Senator Cohen to even suggest that we trust him to remove this essential public facility and again allow developers a free hand is an insult to the public intellect.
At least with the reduction in the number of Senators I doubt that Senator Cohen will be around long enough to carry through this next disaster – despite the current desperate rear-guard actions to protect the loyal establishment elite.
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If I was a major finance industry then of course I would consider moving into new offices, but there is the crux, i would only need consider it, which means nothing in real terms.
If I was Cohen then i would be putting contracts in place that if I build it to the finance industries wishes then they must guarantee a return on the investment made by the tax payers money.
It’s not a case of “If we build it they will come” it should be a case of “If we build it they are guaranteed to come”. Consideration is a pitiful excuse to spend so much money on the offchance it will work out. That is simply gambling and doing it with tax payers money, something our goverment is very happy to do expecially when most of them own companies etc and don’t really need to consider the risk to the island as the risk to themselves is minimal.
Why not do as some other countries do and buy the land and lease it for development, at least then if it all goes to pot then Jersey still owns the land and could then use taxpayers money to demolish any development if it does turn out to be a pipe dream.
I think our government does not cover its own backside in the case that finance goes to pot, and if it did we as taxpayers would not only have to buy back the land but also the buildings upon it to which we will be held to ransom.
My comments are not meant as a slight on the finance industry they are meant as a slight to our government who just arent willing to prepare for the future (nothing is guaranteed in life apart from taxes!) and stick all their, i mean our, eggs in one basket.
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There is a truly great book by William Golding (Lord of the Flies was a low point) called ‘The Spire’ about architectural hubris.
A brief summary is this;
Jocelin, the dean of the cathedral, directs the construction of a towering spire funded by his aunt, Lady Alison, a former mistress of the King. The project is carried on against the advice of many, and in particular the warnings of the master builder, Roger Mason. The cathedral has insufficient foundations to support a spire of the magnificence demanded by Jocelin, but he believes he has been chosen by God to erect a great spire to exalt the town and to bring its people closer to God. As the novel progresses, Golding explores Jocelin’s growing obsession with the completion of the spire, during which he is increasingly afflicted by pain in his spine as a result of tuberculosis. Jocelin interprets the burning heat in his back as an angel, alternately comforting or punishing him depending on the warmth or pain he feels. Jocelin’s obsession blinds him to reality, as he neglects his duties as a dean, fails to pray and ignores the people who need him the most.
For full marks draw parallels to the Jersey Waterfront scenario 2011 , essays should be brief and ‘to the point’ .
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Cohan go now,,, you are systermatically raping the island,,, how do you sleep at night?????
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@jj 24 – Yes the states would buy it for the going rate, and then lease it to the developer for 99 years for a £1.00.
Private money should go into these things not tax payers money AND planning permission should only be granted IF a guaranteed tenant exists.
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No No No !! Why do we need more bloody offices there are plenty that are empty now and as so many people point out on other comments here you do not go to work to look at the view or your surroundings ?? I am fed up of having to make sacrifes as i am sure everyone is as taxes keep going up and so does everything else just to pay for daft projects!We do not all earn £40’000 a year and before some brain box shouts get a degree not all of us are academic but i still work and pay my way and pay into a private pension!
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Of course the minister will ask the house to back him.
I mean, we need all this office space and flats as there none lying empty in town or across the whole island is there.
Your days are numbered Cohan till elections!!!
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#22
I hope they start with the bridge!!! at least we could get off this island daily 365 days a year without any problems!! I was going to say at a much cheeper price but i would withhold that comment knowing the powers to be over here!!.
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Minsters, Deputies and Dandara won’t be happy until they have bled the Island dry, and built on anything that stands longer than 5 mins!
Next will be dumping rubbish on tide line/ Land fill to build on that too. Ok for them in 20+ years time they will be pushing up the daisies (if any space left for cemetries, or will Law be past all have to go to crem!) what will be let for our Future and our Children!!! Bugger All by the looks!
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J No. 12 Just for the record, Guy de Faye was a deputy during the Havre-des-Pas incinerator plan fiasco. Minsters are held responsible for the high antics of their deputies and if they can not keep them in check then they should not be ministers.
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CoM WE DO NOT WANT A FINANCE CENTRE. If you go ahead this will end up in tears. Rising sea levels will put paid to it even if nothing else does.
St. Helier is a shambles don’t make it any worse.
Colin a bridge would sort out many of the problems in Jersey. It would help with the access to cheaper housing and holidays for the captive audience that is in Jersey. VAT could then be knocked off local prices due to reduced landing fees and shipping costs.
More people could eat out on a summers evening in France and sample better food. The ambiance is better there too.
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‘Next will be dumping rubbish on tide line/ Land fill to build on that too.’
Well its worked in Hong Kong, you get more land by filling the sea in. Hong Kong is also thriving while Jersey increasingly goes down the drain as an economy.
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Is there a demand for office space?, I doubt it.
Anyone who makes enquires about office space could be given a day long tour of the empty offices that already exist, they will probably find something to suit there requirements.
The Finance Industry has been reduced by 13% in the last decade, is there any evidence that this will change?
Freddie, just go now!.
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Yes, well its about time too, they have been talking about it for long enough, just do it!
It will be a fantastic asset to the island and our largest industry.
Good for you freddie!
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Why on earth is this being put forward when there are 2 private companies willing to build offices at the brewery and odeon.
Planning is stopping the private development of the odeon to use public money to ruin our skyline, you could not make it up. If there is still a need for office space after these developments are finished then go ahead use public money to build on the Esplanade site but not instead of allowing private investment.
Surely public money should only be used to build where private money would never invest. Or have I just hit the nail on the head.
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More offices!! If they are as ugly, alien and inappropriate as the new Ogiers building (which for some strange reason Freddie likes!) I would suggest we start looking for a new Planning Minister….any suggestions?
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If the Esplanade Quarter is going to be such a super whizzy asset with the finance industry queuing up to rent space in it why can’t a private company be found to build it?
I have spent some time working through the financial information that trickles out of the Waterfront and I reckon that it is a substantial net absorber of public funds. I doubt anyone really knows what it costs, money flows in and out of there under several departmental budget heads and you have the far from transparent WEB to contend with as well.
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Aukward 25
Re: ‘The Spire’…a perfect parallelism!
The Spire is an impressively powerful portrait of one man’s possessed will, and of the towering folly he creates (taken from the book review).
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It’s always good to start the day with a hearty laugh. Thanks JEP!
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Cohen is going……writing is on the wall.
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Can someone explain why we need this? St Helier central will become a ghost town.
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Gino, Adrian, others – there may be valid reasons to object to the proposals, but rising sea levels in the not too distant future? Don’t believe everything you read – there is as much “expert” opinion that sea levels will not rise by anything other than historic fractions and it will be centuries before we get our feet wet.
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There is some extremely disturbing evidence that the Western Antarctic Ice Shelf is melting even faster than expected.
The influence of slightly higher air and water temperatures is quite amazing.
The tide is not going to be lapping the walls of the town church by 2025 but I would not like to lay a bet that it will not be there by 2075.
It is not a reason not a build and if they think they can make a profit in that time why not?
I think that the project is a possible albatross, there is not a queue of developers fighting for the rights and you have to ask why not?
That is why the States are thinking of borrowing the money and developing it themselves.
Looking at the history of the Waterfront I am concerned about the island investing this amount of money in a project of this kind.
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The last thing we need is more building on the Waterfront. Have our unfavorite developer sold the huge number of flats they are building there – I would imagine not. Another 400 flats also to be built to stand empty?
The States have their previous white elephant of the Fort now in a bad state of repair, there are thousands of properties for sale and lots of empty offices – WE DO NOT NEED TO BUILD ANY MORE.
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“Build it and they’ll come” might well have been a good line uttered in the Film ‘Field of dreams’…..but that was a film guys…we seem to have politicians with grandiose notions.mostly because they have never actually had to work for a living…who act as though it all were a movie.
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No 1 bruce with rising sea levels, it’ll all be underwater in 25 years
Lets hope so then that be the end of finance.
But on a serious side now if more office built on the Waterfront and all the finance house move there collectively what happens to all the office they are presently occupier in the town will this mean all these office become vacant and redundant. Has this man no sense,No obversely not! otherwise he would not be making such a mess of things make you wonder what his criteria is. More office NO NO look at the development at the roundabout at the end of the tunnel in Green Street how long has that office been empty. Why more offices the finance industry is on the decline why not more affordable home and not flat for the Jersey hard working folk
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This forum is often a mess of ill-informed and bigotted views. On this topic it is absolutely “on the ball”, united in its view and with its arguments well expressed. Common sense rules! Well done (all except one!).
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I was planning to move to Dubai, but Dubai is coming to me. Thanks Cohen
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