De La Salle increase fees and cut A-level classes
Friday 20th May 2011, 2:58PM BST.
De La Salle head teacher Jason Turner
DE La Salle College is to increase fees, withdraw four A-levels and scrap special classes for less able students to cope with huge funding cuts proposed by the Education Minister.
During the past six months, head teachers of fee-paying schools have warned that they faced a massive shortfall in income if the States approved plans to cut subsidies by £4.3 million.
Now, in a letter to parents, De La Salle College has outlined sweeping changes in an effort to tackle the proposed cuts, which would reduce its funding by £800,000 per year.
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Well done Mr Reed!
Another shining example of our COM not tackling the issue in their own back yards but attacking the tax payer and general public.
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happy now Reed? This is the real negative effect your ill thought unresearched proposal will have. Shentons proposal lodged with the States recently is comprehensive, in depth and thorough and shows what a rank amateur Reed is and how he has given absolutely no consideration to the consequences of his proposal, shows he has undertaken no research at all and clearly demonstrates he is fundamentally wrong. Get Reed out now before he destroys education totally over here.
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Just the start of things to come. Another mistake by our States members. Lets see now many pupils are withdrawn from the private schools in 18 months time.
4 A level courses down the pan… I’m afraid Jersey is on a very slippery slope. Only the future will tell.
Yes we need to save money but not at the expense of our children and grandchildren.
The only way to make the States change their mind is if everybody withdrew their children and what would happen then? Who would pick up the bill…. Room for thought.
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I really do hope that Deputy Reads proposals get a full hearing and debate in the house. (Thank goodness for Ben Shenton !) Education have a legal requirement to provide education to the islands school children, and currently, Education outsources 40% of their responsibility to the fee paying sector, at a cost of only 10% of their budget.
Had this matter originally been reported in the media under the headding “Education’s cuts to outsourcing will increase costs to Taxpayer” the public’s reaction would have been different. The reference to ‘subsidies’ is very confusing.
As a taxpayer, I feel that as an island, we are getting a very poor return from the fully funded States sector and the president should be addressing these issues. Wrecking what is currently a very good business model is the last thing that the president should be doing.
These proposals should concern every taxpayer in this island, regardless if they are parents or not, because it is they who will pick up the tab when it all goes wrong. The only winners will be those who are currently in the fee paying sector who have to call it a day due to rising fees, impact of 20 means 20, low/nill salary increases, or a mixture of all three.
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It will not matter who is Education Minister in November, the policy will remain the same.
Phillip Ozouf will still be there, probably as Chief Minister, most of his key allies will still be there and there will still be a need to balance the budget.
The same mess will be still be there; The Chief Minister will still be unable to control the CoM and spin will continue to be passed off as fact.
Soon we will be spending our way through the rainy day fund while States spending continues out of control.
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I want to be one of the first to congratulate Mr Reed on finally doing something right by Jersey. No wonder exam results are so low if the tax payer is helping to fund 40% of the islands schools going into private education. This way there will be a larger variety of students from all backgrounds in the state system which will in turn help to bring up the pass marks. Finally someone has the sense to ask why 60% of students parents have to contribute to a private system for those who believe there children are above the education offered at the state schools. Looks like their little ones will have to mix with the ordinary children.
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It just demonstrates that the ministerial system,the toothless scrutiny panels, the paying of States Members, Income Support and the waste of Tax Payers money on steam clocks, parks,new tourism offices, ++++ have all failed disgracefully. When a minister does not take the advice of expensive experts and does not take note of a scrutiny panel conclusion there is something terribly wrong. I do not expect miracles on the 19th of October but we need to go backwards to go forwards. Imagine where we would be without the private schools, we would at the very least be like an Educational English back water. Why do we slavishly follow English models???
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Blackmail and typical of an elite school to penalise the needy.
Make them pay GST as well!!!
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Thanks god my child has finished secondary and will not be in private education come this September, if they were, I would consider moving them to a none fee paying school.
Mr Reed – you are a joke, the damage you will & have caused to education will be felt for years to come & everybody will remember the name – JAMES REED!!!!
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My son goes to de la salle. I’ve never had a new car …have only been on holiday with the kids three times in 17 years…don’t spend money of flash clothes etc… but i am more than happy to pay the exyra fess because it is still great value for money and it is not fair that other tax payers should subsidize me because I chose to send my son to a private school.
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@jack, if you really believe that then it shows how misinformed and naive you are. Its the 40% subsidising the 60% by paying an additional £4500 (soon to be £4800)per child on top of the taxpayers costs, but no matter how plainly and clearly explained to the anti fee schools brigade they never accept the facts.
The fee paying schools are the only schools that offer non mixed sex schooling which is proven to be much more effective.
Clearly you want 1) to lower the overall achievemnts of the Islands school children and 2) increase the financial burden on the taxpayer, nice one mate, hope your proud. I am sick to death of the mis/uninformed ignorant people who think that making the fee paying parents pay even more will benefit the island when the facts show clearly they wont.
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Oh dear “pete” @8
….”Blackmail and typical of an elite school to penalise the needy.”
You do not have a every firm grip on the reality of the issues do you?
De La Salle is scarcely “elitist” – unless that is a faith thing ?
Balancing the books is scarcely “blackmail” – and in some ways they are REMOVING THE UNFAIR ADVANTAGE of giving selected pupils special/extra lessons. -good if you really are an “equalatist” ?
…..”Make them pay GST as well!!! ” – OK but better put it on rent and mortgage payments as well – Did you come up with that one all by yourself ?
Chip on your shoulder ?
HIDS x.
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@jack and pete – there are over 800 pupils at de la salle college alone. At an additional £300 a term that is £240,000 out of the economy, cutbacks I and other parents will have to make. Jack, do you own or work in a restaurant, shop etc, I hope not as that is where these cuts will be felt. Just what is needed when an econmoy is in/just coming out of a recession. LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE instead of spouting off.
There are about 4500 schoolchildren in fee paying schools, at £300 a year increase thats a total of £1,350,000 out of the economy – jack and pete hope you dont lose your jobs because of this eh!
I suggest everyone email Le Sueur to vent their outrage at this and get him to take some action, instead of ignoring the facts and staying silent
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Taxpayer Funding £/year per pupil
7,956 GRAINVILLE Secondary
7,085 HAUTLIEU Secondary
6,926 BEL ROYAL Primary
6,640 HAUTE VALLÉE Secondary
6,394 ST. SAVIOUR Primary
6,383 ST. CLEMENT Primary
6,244 LE ROCQUIER Secondary
6,129 LES QUENNEVAIS Secondary
6,060 GRANDS VAUX Primary
5,922 ROUGE BOUILLON Primary
5,764 ST. MARY Primary
5,460 SAMARÈS Primary
5,312 ST. LUKE Primary
5,227 LES LANDES Primary
5,203 MONT NICOLLE Primary
5,170 TRINITY Primary
5,146 ST. LAWRENCE Primary
5,101 ST. JOHN Primary
5,088 SPRINGFIELD Primary
4,994 ST. PETER Primary
4,810 PLAT DOUET Primary
4,801 ST. MARTIN Primary
4,796 JANVRIN Primary
4,587 LA MOYE Primary
4,584 D’AUVERGNE Primary
4,465 GROUVILLE Primary
4,376 FIRST TOWER Primary
*********************************************
3,381 JCG Secondary
3,274 VICTORIA COLLEGE Sec.
3,001 DE LA SALLE Secondary
2,989 BEAULIEU Secondary
1,668 FCJ CONVENT Primary
1,471 VC PREP Primary
1,449 JCG PREP Primary
1,276 ST. MICHAEL’S (Up to age 14)
1,160 ST. GEORGE’S Primary
1,159 BEAULIEU PRIMARY Primary
1,101 DE LA SALLE PRIMARY Primary
These are the best currently available FACTS from page 5 of: http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/documents/propositions/33367-26153-1152011.pdf
Taxpayer funding is NOT the same for every school
The “private” schools do NOT get anything like the government funding that the “states” schools get per pupil.
“****….” indicates a clear dividing line
JCG Secondary gets 42% that of GRAINVILLE (or 55% that of LES QUENNEVAIS)
DE LA SALLE Primary gets under 16% !!! that of BEL ROYAL Primary (or 25% that of FIRST TOWER)
“private” parents ARE effectively subsidising education -should THEY get a fairer deal ? Would a “fairer” subsidy system bring effective education within reach of more parents ?
Normalising the “subsidies” to ALL schools would mean that some “private” schools effectively would not charge fees or could offer assisted places – effectively they would be like GRAMMAR SCHOOLS.
Did I say GRAMMAR SCHOOLS ? – Oh, is that elitist ? – well not really; LIFE is elitist !!!
If striving for equality in education it is helpful to concentrate on equality of OPPORTUNITY not equality of OUTCOME.
Would it make sense to first FIX the parts of education that are actually BROKEN ?
Reed and Lundy – There’s two “spanners” in the works for starters.
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Jack at 6, thank you for your comment, perhaps I can answer your point if you don’t mind; the taxpayer (I assume that is the hat which you are wearing when you make your post) doesn’t pay for local private education. What happens is that the state is obliged to pay for all children to be educated. Some children go to “state schools”, which are free at point of use.
Others go to the fee paying schools (most of which are also state schools, believe it or not). What then happens is that the state pays the same amount per child as it would if the child was in a non- fee paying school. The parents then make up the difference.
So, what is happening is that the taxpayer has to foot the bill for the education of all individual children, with some parents paying a bit on top of that.
So “private education” doesn’t actually cost you and me any more than any other child. The wider issue is the fact that we are all paying for other people’s children to be educated, many of whom (the ones at non-fee paying schools) make no contribution at all.
Ironically, it would appear to be the non-fee paying parents who are most vocal in all of this. What they do not realise is that their continued protests, based as they are on misunderstanding and dare I say, perhaps a degree of inverted snobbery, are likely to lead sooner or later to a means tested system by which they themselves will end up paying on a “user pays” basis. That would, of course be fairer to anyone who, like yourself, questions why the taxpayer should foot the bill for this service.
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Good evening to all. May I say how much I am in agreement with posts 11 onwards?
I do wonder sometimes whether theose who insist that “private education is subsidised” really want to know the correct state of affairs. Perhaps those people, with closed ears and minds, like the sound of the phrase, which begins to take on the nature of a chant or mantra. Whether that be the case or not, it remains an incorrect and socially unaware statement which is wheeled out by those who don’t want to learn any better.
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Thank you #’s 14 & 15 who have answered Jack at #6.
Please allow me to provide a simple real life example ! My son could be at First Tower, which is a good school at a cost to the taxpayer of £4376 per year. However, he attends De La Salle for which the States make a contribution of £1,101, a saving to the taxpayer of £3,275.
Jersey’s education department have an enviable business model compared with other jusisdictions, which they are hell bent on wrecking ! Why ?
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A few feathers ruffled.
Good.
Private school is a lifestyle choice, not a right. Use the States system if you are worried about where you tax money goes.
Nobody forces a person to put their child in a private school.
If you make that choice YOU should have to pay for it and that includes GST.
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The “private schools” in Jersey are mostly states schools. Feathers ruffled? I don’t think so. More a case of correcting misinformed views, really.
As said above, you cannot change the views of those whose ears are closed. Indeed, the very fact that (quote) “private schools” are not a right is the very reason why parents pay over and above the odds to send their children there. Everyone else sits back, lets the taxpayer foot the bill and makes no contribution at all.
Let me put it this way, if “YOU should have to pay for it and that includes GST”, then surely means testing and parent payments for non fee paying schools is the way forward? After all, why we everyone pay for the education of other people’s children? The argument must work both ways and it is those who stand to lose the most (ie those who don’t pay a penny) who seem to make the most noise in all of this.
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Thanks Penny. A couple of feathers ruffled, good.
Reed has done so much damage in his attempts to derial and excellent business model. The states would be in enormous trouble if the parents who support the fee paying sector pulled out.
This is the problem with “tiny majority parish deputies”; they are often out of their depth in such matters.
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Re #18 & #6, just why do we bother trying to explain anything.
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@pete
take your blinkers off as your making a bit of a wally of yourself. Look at the figures they speak for themselves. According to you, you would clearly be happy for the fee patying schools to close and everyone attend states schools. Then you would complain about how your taxes have gone up to pay for this, mind you from your narrow minded and prejudiced view I wouldnt be surprised if you didnt pay any taxes and probably lived off benefits
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My feathers are definitely ruffled. They ruffle with disbelief at the inability of some to grasp the bleedin’ obvious, namely that it is the parents of fee paying children who subsidise everyone else. Post 15 above sets it out to anyone who can be bothered to listen.
Presumably, the feathers of those who carry on not listening tend to ruffle as well from the social inadequacies and petty jealousies which cloud their collective thinking. On the other hand, perhaps the inability to listen and the concomitant need to shout in capital lettering stems from a poor schooling and the feathers ruffle from a sense of grievance and perception that children today may be receiving an educational experience from which the owner of the ruffled feathers did not benefit. Either way, there seems to be an awful lot of ruffling going on.
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pete, nice to see others peoples problems make you happy, sad person.
your quote “use the states system if you are worried about where your tax money goes” actually should be reversed if you as a taxpayer are concerned where your taxes go and the figures support this im afraid so try and argue with THE FACTS
cost to taxpayer per pupil in primary education Bel Royal (States) £6,926
cost to taxpayer per pupil in primary education at De La Salle (fee paying) £1,101.
so hopefully even someone as shortsighted as you can see quite clearly that the fee paying parent subsidises the taxpayer by £5,825.
Got it now??
If you want any more evidence can i suggest you read this – http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/documents/propositions/33367-26153-1152011.pdf
then maybe you might be better informed
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so pete, your happy to see cuts to school services, bet your proud of yourself.
what about free nursery places for all, maybe thats where you should be directing your attention. At least parents at fee paying schools are making a significant contribution to the cost. They should get tax relief, as did parents who paid for nurseries before free places, not pay gst!
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Thank goodness my daughter only has 12 more months in private education. Once she has completed GCSEs I won’t be keeping her in private she will be applying for a space at Highlands. If the fees were not going to increase so substantially (we have already had huge increases) I would have left her in private till 18 to complete A levels or a diploma …. so who is losing out here? The tax payer as more cost will have to be born by the states of Jersey plus my daughter who would rather have stayed where she is now
Well done Mr Reed !!! I won’t be voting for you come the autumn
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at 26; most people didn’t and won’t get the chance to vote or not vote for Reed because he is a parish deputy; good on you though if you are in a position to let the (limited) ballot box speak; it’s just a pity that this kind of person is making these broad policy decisions which undermine a well functioning system and stands to drive up the cost to the public purse in exactly the way which you so well described in your post.
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In reference to all comments made on here I agree with the issues being raised. Nobody likes to see fees/taxes rise, me being on of them. But seeing as it is law to provide a child with education then the government must make it possible for this to occur. As for parents who can financially provide for their children to attend a private school. (The meaning is in my last sentence). It’s called private due to it having zero funding from the public sector. UK private schools fees are considerably more higher then here. Times are hard on everyone and cuts have to be made. Yes we can blame government for over spend, or the financial sectors of the world playing with our money. But the bottom line is, if you can’t afford it don’t buy it. The other idea is, if the subsides were not in place to begin with and the private schools were only supported by the fees they charge, would we have any private schools at all. One last thought to parents of fee paying schools. As you invest so much money in your child’s education at these schools, and technically are classed as share holder. Has anyone asked the Board of Governors for a financial report of the year on what the money gets used one. Could be a good avenue to go down.
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One last question. What A levels and special classes are being scrapped from the De La Salle curriculum? I presume its not fundamental ones like English, Maths or Science.
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As a teacher who has worked in one of the colleges for many years, i have met and worked with three different education ministers. Mr Reed won’t win any public speaking competitions but he genuinely does care about education on the island. No other minister has supported so many school functions and educational presentations from across the range of educational establishments we provide. I for one will vote for him again, i have no doubt the colleges will survive- with or without states funding.
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Pete – cuts should be opposed in states schools and in the pseudo private schools. The system is set up as it is – changing it piece meal simply isn’t fair regardless on which side of the fence you stand on. Health and education should be immune from cuts – seriously lets have a few more potholes first.
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Wayne at 28, thank you for your post. Three incorrect points are identified as follows;
1: “It’s called private due to it having zero funding from the public sector.”
No, it is not private. It is fee paying state schooling. It is also partly funded from the public sector in exactly the same way per child as non fee paying schools are funded per child. The parent pays a premium on top of the standard, public funded cost. The parent subsidises the system.
2: “if the subsides were not in place to begin with and the private schools were only supported by the fees they charge, would we have any private schools at all”.
Incorrect, because there are no subsidies. What happens is that the parent pays over and above the amount which the education department is required by law (you are correct on that point alone) to spend on each child. Rather than repeat previous attempts by others to explain the matter, it is politely suggested that you take the time to read the succinct account at number 15 above.
2: “As you invest so much money in your child’s education at these schools, and technically are classed as share holder”.
No you are not. You are only a shareholder if you hold shares in a business which is run through a company. No parent will generally hold shares in a school, any more than a person would generally hold shares in a garage business if he or she were to purchase a vehicle from that business.
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Hi wayne #28,
……”But seeing as it is law to provide a child with education then the government must make it possible for this to occur”……
Hate to split hairs but precious little education seems to being achieved at some of the “fully subsidised” schools
I thought that it was a generation being shamefully let down but you have a point – It could be rightly described as a CRIME – literally if the law is being broken or not fulfilled.
Your concentration on the word “private” is puerile – Like those who said that you cannot cycle on the “railway walk” because it is a “walk” (can’t walk on it if it is a railway).
Please try to concentrate on the facts and the issues – not the individual words.
Perhaps you should ask the Board of Governors of the “fully subsidised” schools why they are failing (sorry -not being more successful) when they are given quite considerable amounts of money ?
Thank you,
HIDS x.
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Wayne at 28 – I’m a Governor at a fee paying school and more than happy to respond – I assure you that my college is run extremely efficiently and not a month goes by where we are not working hard to make ends meet – I work in the finance industry and rarely see the same level of effort in the businesses I come across. Indeed the independent reviews undertaken before Christmas confirmed this unequivocally. Cutting costs is different to efficiencies as you will reduce service levels which is destructive to kids, teaching staff and the ability for the colleges to run a stable operation.
Even between the four main colleges there are fundamental differences in structure and ownership which makes comparing fees and efficiencies extemely difficult.
You really do need to stop using the term ‘private schools’ as they are not private schools – there are some good explanations of this higher up the discussion chain.
In my view this is not just about grant cuts – there is obviously something fundamentally wrong with the education system in its entirety. The Green Paper which we are all looking forward to seeing soon had better be as wide reaching and open to comment as we have been promised or that is where we should be pointing the spotlight. However, with elections looming towards the end of the consultation period, I don’t hold much hope of it boiling the ocean very soon.
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Oh dear – Oh dear “pete” @18
…..”A few feathers ruffled. Good.”……
I will go with your analogy – OK, I do not like needless cruelty to animals but I doubt that your [male hen] is going to end up on top !
What you state at @18 are not FACTS -they are mealy your OPINIONS
I take it that you appointed yourself as the sole judge of what is “A RIGHT” AND WHAT IS NOT ?
Fortunately the chances are that you are a looser not a leader so your OPINIONS are of little consequence. Granted, we are continually unimpressed with the quality of many of our leaders – you are not Reed are you ?
Endless repetition of the same tripe does not make it true.
If you want to persuade, defend your previous crass statements @8, answer my points at 12 and several other posts/posters.
otherwise – watch the feathers fly !!
There is a high mortality among chickens -especially the free range ones -that story is hushed up, as were the poor school results – but that’s another story.
You may be “cocky” but please prove that you are not a birdbrain.
Thank you,
HIDS x.
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A couple of things. 1) Why is De La Salle Doing this when the proposed cuts have not even been approved yet? 2) The whole point of these cuts is the ridiculous pressure put on by our COM to cut 10% in all departments. If this proposal is knocked back it will still be young people who are affected as it will be the Youth Service, the Library Service and Sport that will be cut in its place.
Health were excused from cutting 10% as it would be front line services that were affected, should the COM not be doing the same here with the ESC cuts?
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Wayne – of course they are not english maths and science, the school might as well shut if it were. However I would say any GCSE offered is “fundamental” (as Reeds whole arguement on releasing results is based on not focusing on maths and english) and cutting any GCSE is disastrous for many pupils. The school is also cutting back on lower pupil numbers for the less abled classes.
You cannot compare the education structure here to that in the UK. Over 40% of pupils attend fee paying schools here.
And as for how these schools use their fees, have a look for example at De La Salles facilities, compared to the lovely States schools on which millions and millions have been spent over recent years, there is no comparison, and perhaps if ESC had not spent as much they might not be in such a poor financial position now.
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Home schooling here we come.
Private schools can’t afford, States school struggling to get a place EVEN in my Parish!!!
Some Students attend the School don’t live in the Parish, what a Joke!!!
Do I get a rebate for Home Schooling, Deputy?
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There is no point in trying to put across a balanced POV on here regarding this. Such petty jealousy from people who can’t/won’t pay for their kids to go to private schools.
I nearly spat my coffee out when someone posted about private educated kids having to mix with “ordinary” kids!!
Ordinary? really? The main reason that people I know sacrifice their hard earned is to keep their kids away from “ordinary” kids. You know, the ones that spit, kick and throw chairs at the teacher. The same ones who take up the whole lesson kicking off therefore denying the rest of the class any attention.
I am not talking secondary here either, this is 8 year olds behaviour. The teachers are powerless to do anything, they can’t give the little darlings a clout round the ear or dare I say it “suspend” the multi offenders!!!!! If they did it would be the only time the little criminals parents would get involved in its life.
This is why lots pay to go private, to keep away from behaviour like this, they have no choice as Education can’t/won’t do anything about this major problem. Otherwise their childs education will suffer because of “ordinary” states school kids demanding all the teachers attention.
What do you think of that Jack?
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ok as the States have an obligation to pay for every childs education i will take the £7956 that the states/taxpayer contributes to a pupil at Grainville and then pay with no states subsidy for a fee paying school myself, there can be no argument against that, i am not depriving the taxpayer of anything. pete wayne et al will be happy and i will actually be better off.
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What is happening is that the taxpayer foots the bill for the education of all individual children, with some parents paying a bit on top of that.
So “private education” (not the correct phrase in Jersey but a convenient shorthand for the purpose of this post), doesn’t actually cost you and me any more than any other child. The wider issue is the fact that we are all paying for other people’s children to be educated, many of whom (the ones at non-fee paying schools) make no contribution at all. Perhaps it is that side of things which needs review.
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Hedinda Sands (14) Taxpayer Funding £/year per pupil
An amazing post, well done this should be the basis of all debate. Notwithstanding the private/public debate, how can the disparity between CLEMENT Primary and LE ROCQUIER Secondary be explained:
6,383 ST. CLEMENT Primary
6,244 LE ROCQUIER Secondary
A Gold plated education at ST. CLEMENT Primary or gross inefficacy? Then what is the cost related to outcomes? ROCQUIER Secondary seem to do reasonably well on all measures.
This is a statistical nightmare with the States of Jersey at the root of all the problems, whatever you bias.
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I attended a meeting with Mr Reed. He was absolutely useless. He wouldnt even listen to many parents questions and couldnt even answer the basic of questions. No matter how much “he cares” he shouldnt be in chharge of something he seems to know nothing about!
Also I know of someone who has lived in Jersey for 2 years. Her husband is high up in some bank. They came over from England. She has made sure her 3 children have had maximum free nursery education and free school education. Big cars and several big holidays a year. When I last saw her they have just moved to a bigger house than ever in a gorgeous local spot that I could never afford to live in!
That seems wrong to me too. Maybe school fees should all be means tested for everyone?
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With all these education cut backs, no wonder we advertise outside Jersey for Job vacanies,
No-one here, will be able to fill the Local posts, if taught in our schools, won’t have the necessary quals ! (tongue-in-cheek)
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@30, survive they might without funding but with only children from very well of families, thereby removing the opportunity for many children/families to gain access to these schools that offer excellent academic possibilities and making them more elitist and exclusive, not a step in the right direction, the minister should be supporting these schools not destroying them
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I don’t suppose that anyone bothers to take into account the fact that Grainville has a costly autism unit and extra support staff to help students with learning needs the like of which would not get a place at fee-paying schools…or that the cost of all these ‘extras’ are assimilated into the mean cost per child, thus skewing the figures?
And while we’re at it…how much does De La Salle raise its fees by year on year on year; I’ll hazard that 6% is simply the standard inflative amount – hardly a news story.
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Can I just point out that these cuts are being felt in all the island’s schools. I know of State 11-16 schools which are not replacing staff who retire or move to new jobs, reducing the number of GCSEs offered to Year 10 and 11 and increasing class sizes. This is as a result of reduced funding across the last 5 years. The ‘efficiency savings’ are having an effect everywhere and to imply that these De La Salle cuts are simply down to a reduction in fees is wrong. On the same measures used in all schools DLS has been overstaffed and is therefore having to cut its cloth like everyone else. However it has more public and political impact to blame future reductions in funding rather than current inefficiencies.
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@34 “In my view this is not just about grant cuts – there is obviously something fundamentally wrong with the education system in its entirety.”
How true.It is the whole system which is not working as it should and there’s no point slinging mud around between individual schools. This two tier “apartheid” education is the problem as it encourages mistrust and misconceptions between the two sectors (paying and not). It is also socially devisive.
@39
“The main reason that people I know sacrifice their hard earned is to keep their kids away from “ordinary” kids.
You know, the ones that spit, kick and throw chairs at the teacher.”
I rest my case.
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@ 46 teach, ok then, lets forget Grainville, I will take the states/taxpayers contribution to a pupil at the lowest cost per pupil states schools, Les Q, £6129, De La Salle gets a subsidy of £3001, plus contribution by parents of £4500 (total £7501 per pupil). If I got my fair share of the states/taxpayers contribution, I would only need to cough up £1372, saving myself £3128. Thats fair isn’t it, an equal contibution by the states/taxpayer to each and every pupil regardless of what school they are at (as the state has an obligation to fund eveyones education). We are all taxpayers so surely all entitled to the same states contribution to the education to our children?
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@32, I apologise for referring to the fee paying schools as private. Clearly they are not so I will now refer to them in their correct title. Also,please refer to page 3 of Senator Shenton’s proposition where he uses the words ‘subsidies and private schools’
@34 and 37.Again I ask the question of what the fees you part with are spent on. Vic College and JCG’s building and land are States owned and are maintained by the States. Plus, I believe that De La Salle and Beaulieu are (not sure if this is termed correctly) faith based schools and I would presume receive funding from the church.
as for the quotes made about ‘ordinary kids’. Aren’t all kids exceptional
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48; spoken like a true (il)liberal lefty
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Moo, Thank you for your comment.
I think what the person posting at 39 was trying to say is that the fee paying sector can kick out disruptive pupils but that the non-fee paying cannot. I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall you saying the same thing on another thread. As I say though, I may be mistaken.
While there are situations where the non fee paying sector can exclude certain elements, it is very unusual. The person at post 39 therefore makes a valid point.
I don’t wish to sound critical, but it would have been better for you to have teased out that point (perhaps you didn’t see it though?) rather than reacting with the silly “rest my case” comment which followed your purposefully selective quotation from the post.
The remainder of your post sets out your antagonism towards any form of fee paying education. Your apparent desire to abolish fee paying education may perhaps have its left of centre supporters in England (which I believe is where you come from) but is not something which will be entertained here. I am sure that there are other far away places, however, where the such liberal zeal will be more readily appreciated!
Thank you again.
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Hi “BBPuking” @52 -I like it ! -you underdone sausage you !
Your post is anything but “half baked” however.
Nice piece of diplomacy which just might rain-in the more extreme statements on both sides.
Extreme statements are hardly surprising when the likes of “pete” @8 & 18 come here with the express purpose of “ruffling a few feathers”
A few well aimed pecks and he seems to have scuttled back into the undergrowth.
This (and the fully funded school’s issues) are so important that it helps no one if constructive discussion degenerates into a slanging match. Cohen will soon be voted out (hopefully), we will need a new “foreign minister” (lol), and your indigestion will have cleared up
My zeal too, can be quite liberal -and it is sometimes not appreciated !
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Hi john @49,
I have been so waiting for someone to make that post !
Thank you !
Do I feel “education vouchers” or similar coming on ?
We need to sort out a FAIR system that EFFECTIVELY EDUCATES CHILDREN -anything considered.
Total “£7501″pa /pupil at De La Salle ! -begins to look like a bargain !!!
A lot of the “fully funded” schools seem, by comparison, to be doing not-a-lot with a great deal of the island’s money – lets get the results, the added value and the special needs etc. AND SEE.!!
“Fess up” Reed – there’s a good boy.
Thank you, -Now you may leave.
Nothing to hide ? – or nowhere left to hide ?
Rabbit in the headlights !
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“Also,please refer to page 3 of Senator Shenton’s proposition where he uses the words ‘subsidies and private schools”.
Senator Shenton said it, so it must be true!
Anyone who takes as gospel a particulr description attached by a particular states member is clearly a follower rather than a leader. The person fails to understand the linguistic nuances which a politician may bring to bear upon a subject in order to influence the thought process of the reader. It is this kind of naivety which allows politicians to exercise the peculiar powers that they do.
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@52
Interesting post, but you are misunderstanding me.
I think an education system which does the very best possible for ALL our children is what is needed. That is all.I agree with Hedinda S on that. I have not said anything about abolishing anything, I merely ask if we should look at the whole picture rather than individual schools..this would incluse looking at value added results, funding etc. But you see fit to make huge assumptions about my politics and beliefs.
You say that such “liberal” views as the ones you think I hold “won’t be entertained here.” Apart from the pomposity of such a statemnt it is not true, as I hear quite radical views, much more so than mine, being discussed rgularly, on all sorts of issues, by all sorts of people. And that’s fine, discussion is a good thing.
I objected to 39′s escription of non fee paying students as s/he seemed to be implying that they are all badly behaved. That is as much of a stereotype as saying that all fee paying parents drive 4x4s, and drip with money. Not true and not helpful. But it does underline my point, that there is an educational divide here, with misconceptions on both sides, and such divides are not healthy.
Now I am going to bow out gracefully because this much deja vu is making me question my sanity.
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HI John @ 49
You seem to have forgotten to factor in the cost of buildings and land and access to facilities for State schools this is a different pot of money. DLS look after their buildings and replace them with the money from parents fees and their grant. So effectively they are doing much more with much less. They are an effective organisation getting good value added scores and results with much much less money. Bonkers to wreck that don’t you think?
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On another note all those with “rich” parents with second homes in France are about to pay more tax there too.
https://www.kpmg.com/UK/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/NewsReleases/Pages/French-tax-rules-hit-Brtions.aspx
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Moo “I have not said anything about abolishing anything”.
Okay, but you did say earlier:
“This two tier “apartheid” education is the problem as it encourages mistrust and misconceptions between the two sectors (paying and not). It is also socially devisive.”
The politician-like lingustic sleight of hand in your second post is amusing. Even though you now deny it, the tone and content of your earlier post leaves one in no doubt that, although you do not expressly say as much, abolition is very much the message which you would wish to convey.
I would agree with the self doubt which you express in the closing words of your most recent post.
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I am sure that there are other far away places, however, where the such liberal zeal will be more readily appreciated!
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Whilst we are on the subject of “De la Salle College” – would the Headmaster and the parents of their 6th Form Students kindly tell them to stop using the neighbouring Maison St Louis road as their School Car Park.
The residents of Maison St Louis are fed up to the back teeth with De la Salle student cars blocking up Maison St Louis and causing obstructions and disruption to the residents every day. Residents are now having to park their cars in De la Salle School car park because they can’t park near their own houses due to these inconsiderate and selfish De la Salle Students!
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Moo,
Not all but plenty are, and seriously most ordinary parents that I know, ie the ones who struggle to scrape the money together for private ed do it for the reason I wrote.
I dont want to give too much away but there are some primary schools and secondary that some have serious problems which the public do not know much about. Unless your child is in one of these disrupted clasess and affected by these “ordinary” kids.
Education cant/wont do anything so lots of parents have no choice and pull their children out and send them to fee paying schools instead.
Also some schools have such bad reputations that if you are in the catchment you fight tooth and nail with Education for them not to go there. I know I will when the time comes. Our catchment schools reputation proceeds it and talking to other parents just confirms it. So its either private or outside of our post code.
Society in general is breaking down, not just kids at school. If you cant see this Moo then maybe you need to look harder. It is a worldwide problem.
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60; and this is relevant because……?
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I do struggle to see some of the arguements against the current system.
If a parent chooses to send their child to a states school it cost them nothing but the tax payer pays £7956 to send them to grainville. If a parent sends their child to de la salle then it only costs the taxpayer £3000 while the parent pays around £4,500.
As a tax payer I would prefer all parents to send their children to private school as this would lower the tax burden significantly!
What James Reed wants to do is to put parents off sending their children to private schools so the tax payer has to pay more money.
As a parent with a child in a private school I can only be better off by being forced into ‘free’ education where as the objectors will be worse off!
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Am not going to waste my breath slinging mud or moaning about fee paying schools, if I could afford it I would send my son.
The issue that everyone seems to overlook and thanks to 14 Hedinda Sands for the figures, it is immigration and overpopulation in my view. I would dread to think how many foreign families use our public schools and dont ever pay a penny in tax because they are on the minimum wage and keep popping out kids to keep them in benefits and allowances and States and homes trust properties, thats the real issue here, its just a shame none of you can see it.
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Hi Andy @63
……”I do struggle to see some of the arguements against the current system”……
That is vey generously put of you.
Some variation is fine but Why should another child get funded by about £8000pa and yours get maybe about £3000 ?
Also, shouldnt parents and taxpayers alike expect more from that aprox £8000pa spend ?
other schools are doing well on lower or not significantly different budgets.
Many of those 8K kids are not being given a chance.
A route and branch review is tequired and it should not need masses of money.
Ask the suceeding schools what they are doing right
It is almost certainly down to ethos and structured dicipline
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Hedinda Sands @65
Personally I did not have a problem with the funding as it was. I went into this knowing what it was going to cost me and I was prepared to pay.
What particularly upsets me is that having now committed to my current school that I am having the rug pulled out from under me. I thought I knew what my costs were going to be and now I don’t. A child’s education is not a short term event (pardon the pun)and I thought that I had understood the commitment. If I have to now pull out of private education then it will be my child that suffers, not me!
It is difficult to compare schools and to serve judgement on the basis of emotion and mis-information however we currently have a system that allows a parent to make a choice, their own choice as to what suits their child best, why destroy that?
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James Reed is not fit for office. Glad I’m not in school anymore!
As for comment 60 from Maison St Louis can I point out that De La Salle car park is a private car park and therefore you are not allowed to park there. Masion St Louis is a public road with no parking restrictions other than the standard ones laid out in the highway code. I presume you are familar with the road traffic law in St Saviour’s http://www.jerseylaw.je/law/display.aspx?url=lawsinforce%2fconsolidated%2f25%2f25.550.64_RoadTraffic(StSaviour)Order2000_RevisedEdition_1January2011.htm
Therefore sixth form students and whoever else have pretty much as much of a right to park there as residents. How inconsiderate and selfish to not want them to be able to park and receive an education!
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Comment 60,what disruptions are we causing, we politely follow your instructions to move our cars when asked to and park where other people on the state haven’t but in a manner to cause no obstruction
Your Comment is also irrelevant
On the actual subject matter, I don’t think De La Salle has actually ever offered Drama or Music A-Level Education within the school premises (Students are generally sent to Beaulieu or JCG) and Geography is being studied by no one in the current year 13 aqnd 1 person is studying french so it means near to nothing
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@60 Agreeing with 62 but as you brought up the topic . . . talk about an exaggeration, ‘inconsiderate and selfish’, unfortunately there is no alternative parking and if the residents of Maison St Louis do not wish for any cars to be parked between the massively busy hours of 9am and 4pm then this is an issue to be taken up with road authorities not a school. As an added bonus it is now study leave so you can enjoy your summer in peace.
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Re your comment: “I would dread to think how many foreign families use our public schools and don’t ever pay a penny in tax because they are on the minimum wage and keep popping out kids to keep them in benefits and allowances and States homes and trust properties, that’s the real issue here, it’s just a shame none of you can see it.”
And, it’s a shame that you can only see foreign families behaving in this way!
You seem to turn a blind eye to the indigenous islanders who keep popping out kids to keep them in benefits and allowances and States homes and trust properties…
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Vicki 64
My previous post was just for you.
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Ok Helinda, if Moo isn’t right, and the system doesn’t encourage mud slinging, could you tell us why you think the non fee paying schools are failing, as in by which measure are they not performing.
Or have I misunderstood your stance on this?
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Andy – nail on head.
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@ Goldie.. it would be hippocritial and ignorant of me to forget where I was bought up.. on a states housing estate with much of the like and as much as it annoyed my mother who made herself ill trying to bring two children up single handedly whilst seriously ill, I think maybe that might explain.
Like they say be careful how you treat people on the way up….
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Hypocritical even ( just in case the spelling police are out)
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74. So you are saying you can be raised on benefits because you were born here,but the Jersey born children of “immigrants” (inverted commas as they need to have residential qualifications for States housing) have no right.
Bit confused here. Not sure what you actually DO like about living in Jersey.
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Question was to no. 75
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Hi BBQ King @72 & 73
Was that you “BBPuking” @52 or was that someone poking fun ?
@53 I said
“My zeal too …………. is sometimes not appreciated”
apologies (if required) no offence intended to you or the majority of teaching staff -some of whom have my personal gratitude
also @53
“lets get the results, the added value and the special needs etc. AND SEE.!!
‘Fess up’ Reed”
My understanding is that this information (such as it exists) has not been published and the intention is to restrict information (including raw results) as much as possible in future years.
The raw results which have been published (contrary to Reed etc’s wishes) paint a disturbing picture with a spread in the defacto benchmark of 98% to 18% (if I recall)
High 90′s is amazing, especially from the less selective schools and 18% (or 20% or even 33%) is in my view shocking.
We have removed all our children from the states system – not because we wanted to but because each and every one was being failed in one way or another -And this was at PRIMARY stage and resulted in immediate improvements. This was our experience and is borne out by others we have spoken to (sorry). Our decision was then confirmed in shocking clarity by the 98%/18% spread of results.
I would like to see a 50%-75% spread for the 3 schools and on other threads I have made suggestions in the hope of opening a debate on how this might be achieved.
The mitigating circumstances etc for the 98%/18% spread have been “discussed” at length on other threads and have even touched on “Vicki’s” ‘foreign families’ concern, though fortunately in more diplomatic terms.
To Vicki I would say : please don’t paint everyone with the same brush. Yes we do indeed need a mature debate about the volume of immigration – and yes it will effect schooling, particularly if children arrive not speaking English.
We are all immigrants, or descendants of immigrants.
Immigrants have positive and negative effects on any society. Fortunately most of them and their children are good hard working people -and get good school results.
There is justifiable anger over the volume of immigration (& yes I want quality not quantity) but it is important to use acceptable terms and direct that anger at the government that has brought about the situation – not at the individuals themselves because there are words for that and some of them need the spellchecker that was so overlooked in my post #65
Vicki, I have this feeling that “Goldie Yawn” { like it
} is no dumb blond and could have both me and you for breakfast, possibly served in some annoyingly delicious continental sauce – I am occasionally wrong -but my plan is to ramble on until she finally falls asleep.
A question for you Vicki : Would you/Could you afford to send your boy to e.g. DSL if the fees were £500 per term ?
Could this thread be the only one free of that “boat in the morning” phrase -Oh b@lls I just said it !
HIDS x.
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To add insult to ones hardships isn’t necessarily big or very clever..
Although I sympathize with many who generally work hard to send their children to a fee paying school a lot of people in life DO NOT have a choice.
Without even knowing it all the parents who do continue to turn their noses up and mock those less fortunate (and where there is intelligent life believe it or not) You are creating your own down fall. If that is the way you continue to see the world then more fool you, it is very typical of folk with an inferiority complex and think exam results means you are capable of any job at hand I pity you.
I am sure it cant be fun playing piggy in the middle to the ones that cant afford at all and the ones who have money coming out of their ears but you seem to be troublemakers attacking any one and using anything you can to try and defend your ludicrous right of passage.
If any of you think it is either just or fair to behave in this manner then shame on you, poverty and problems are worldwide, if you were all so clever how have you allowed things to escalate how they have?
I am sure your rich peers have an opinion also and if you took the time to find out the real ‘heads up’ you may find (if you have any degree of intelligence) How disgusting and shocking your attitudes appear to those ‘Elitist’ you so bitterly envy and want to be like. Intelligence is intelligence, you either have it or you don’t and all the money /perks and self righteousness in the world cant buy you it…
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How much did they pay for you, Vicki?
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The system only causes tensions because Reed has stirred it all up. It is very noticable that the views of some regarding funding and “private schools” within the island (inverted comments because they are not private, simply fee paying) are, simply incorrect but those views persist.
Others who post here, often having not been here for long, pose failed “champagne socialist” arguments from England. To a somewhat limited extent,that acts as a further catalyst, but that is the illiberal left for you, with all of its divisive traits.
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Anybody thought that this could be Reeds masterplan?
Force everyone out of fee paying school into states schools, his budget would need to INCREASE, he would need MORE staff and the property and service portfolio of his department would massively increase.
In the words of Dr Evil… ‘MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA’
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“To a somewhat limited extent,that acts as a further catalyst, but that is the illiberal left for you, with all of its divisive traits.”
I suppose that you think that Jersey is led by the liberal right?
It was not so long ago that dancing, live music and off licence sales were not allowed on a Sunday.
Islanders were protected from seeing Life of Brian and in the last few years we have seen calls for the Chippendales and Puppetry of the Penis to be not allowed to perform in the island.
We had over a hundred years of occasional debates on having a casino and I doubt that you would get it passed through the States today.
The only reason we have internet gambling is because the States are terrified that the finance industry will shrink to the point where the economy will implode.
The current CoM and its supporters have a good proportion of authoritarian busybodies that like nothing better than imposing their world view on others.
As for being divisive, the CoM consists almost purely of Terry and Pip’s mates, not exactly a recipe for an inclusive government?
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@80 no way near enough LMAO
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67; thanks for the tip about parking at Maison St Louis. That would be handy now that the 2 hour zones in Stopford Road have gone.
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@79 Yes in agreement with you it is quality not quantity, and yes we are all descendants previous immigrants etc. The point I make is, there is already enough local freeloaders (who are still allowed to carry on in the manner they do) draining the pot and nothing has ever been done about it, its just been allowed to carry on.
We do not have the money or resources to accommodate every other Tom Dick and Harry aswell though, The minimum wage and other factors contribute to yet another drain on the pot to which is not contributed. Why add to the already exisiting problem and it still not be sorted? More homeless young locals and unemployed?!! More vulnerable and needy families who genuinely cant work and haven’t for health reasons?
If it comes down to quality aswell I would say only a third of our immigrants have any intention of ever paying into the pot and the other two thirds are here because they know how the system works ( Their relatives already sussed it out before a majority more came here). No I am not being racist either it is fact. A lot of the folk I come across are very rude and very self righteous and have no shame in making other not so confident locals feel worthless and intimidated. The amount of (excuse the term) kiss a@@ that goes in order for them to get where they want to is shocking, you suggest for one minute that anything underhand is happening or that you have concerns then the ‘race card’ is brought out…
Most of our rich feel sorry for them as its the only ‘poor’ people they are ever likely to come across being that they either clean or do jobs for them on a minimum wage. Its been going on over here for years FACT.
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found this article in the independent news paper today (not bad really for a ex-public school student to read a broad sheet and not a tabloid). have a read people, could be the answers to our education problems. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/are-finnish-schools-the-best-in-the-world-2289083.html
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Headinda – Fair enough, I can’t argue with the sentiment, its all perfectly reasonable. What I would say is that given the way education is split up on the island, ie fee paying non fee paying and Hautlieu. Is it reasonable to expect some of the schools to achieve 50% – 75% A*-C in English and Maths?
If you think about it – grades A* – G are given out across the board – the top (lets say 10 %) achieve A* and so on and so forth so that the average majority achieve a C and the bottom 10% or so a G. Hence I guess the 52% figure from the UK – 50% of the kids are average or better.
If we’ve made fee paying schools (excellent ones BTW) so accessible, and they get such outstanding results, and then creamed off a further top 20% or so from whats left, how can you expect 50+% A*-C from a cohort that would never be expected to get such grades?
All I’m saying is: Jersey Education is broadly speaking working well. Be careful what you measure and against what benchmarks, it may not tell you the whole story.
My only worry is that this whole debate must be pretty demoralising for staff and (more importantly) students at the three (non fee paying, non selective) state schools. Publish the whole lot I say Value added, raw results the whole nine yards. The only problem I can see is who would we all trust to make comment on the results? The JEP? Too sensationalist? OK How about we bring some kind of ofsted to the island (note BRING not invent, ie free from political motivation) and publish the results for each school, ie the whole report?
BBPuKing could you just get a new handle mate? I’m not a ‘Champagne Socialist’ but I do believe that the previous G’ment in the UK may have had a point on the inspection front (just not the strange academy thing, or a few other bits) Actually our fee paying schools are not so very different to academies are they? Just with the parents being the sponsors, and not some business tycoon – Maybe you’re the champagne socialist after all!
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Some ideas regarding social engineering can be sound in principle but failures in practice. Some are good in both respects. Others have no merit.
There are those, usually from outwith, who think that they know better and would tamper with a system that works well, but that is the illiberal left for you, with all of its divisive traits and restrictions of personal freedoms.
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good one at 85 LNUP
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Which public school did you go to Wayne? Was it Eton or one of the other public schools?
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Not sure why the “champagne socialist” tag has been picked up with alacrity. Still, as they say, if the cap fits and you know who you are etc. It’s difficult to see as well why “people funding” is champagne socialism, although I guess that the subjective interpretation of that term will depend to a large extent on intelligence, education, political colour and, of course, the guilty conscience which is on display.
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People shouldn’t fret about this issue; it’s all for a good cause. The States need to sacrifice the quality of our children’s education, cut our public services and raise GST in order to maintain, and probably increase, the foreign aid budget. It is vital to maintain the foreign aid budget so that we may assuage our collective, post-colonial, white-man’s guilt and win Brownie points with the politically-correct lobby…
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@ flora 91, please remember that Eton is a private school and not a fee paying public one. Also would like to remark that I did go to a public non fee paying school (les quennevais) and consider my education at that school a good investment by the taxpayer (which includes my free loading parents ,from a previous comment by someone else). This debate seems to moving towards a class/social ( I should know where my place is in society with my ordinary children) argument.
The education structure of schools in jersey is wrong. There should only be a 2 tier ( public and private). That’s it. Until that is solved this argument will continue. Both side are in a sense right. Change the demographics, solve the problem.
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94, no, Eton is a public school, as is all the other public schools, i.e Canford etc; Amongst the most famous public schools in England are the ‘Clarendon Schools’ which were the subject of the Public Schools Act 1868: Charterhouse School, Eton College, Harrow School, Merchant Taylors’ School, Rugby School, Shrewsbury School, St Paul’s School, Westminster School and Winchester College.
Look it up.
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What is a public school?
A public school, in common English and Welsh usage, is a prestigious school for children usually between the ages of 11 or 13 and 18. By contrast, a government-maintained school, where instruction is provided free of charge, is called a state school.
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I know quite a few public schoolboys who read “gutter” tabloids and quite a few state school pupils who read broadsheets. It doesn’t necessarily follow that those from the fee paying public schools will gravitate away from the red tops, even though they have been to “swanky” public schools like Eton etc. Life is full of strange conundrums. People can seldom be typecast, even the upper class public school stereotypes.
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94; eh? Is Les Quennevais a member of the public schools consortium? When did that happen? Is there a boarding facility? Do they wear straw boaters there these days? Is this one of Reed’s policies?
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No, the analogy was between the model Jersey has adopted – extra funding supplied by parents , and the model introduced by the government that gave us the phrase Champagne Socialist in the first place, that of extra funding supplied by businesses.
It was tongue in cheek, but I guess getting the joke would largely depend on intelligence, education, etc etc
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Wayne at 28 and 94, thank you for your posts. Four incorrect points are identified as follows;
1: “It’s called private due to it having zero funding from the public sector.”
No, it is not private. It is fee paying state schooling. It is also partly funded from the public sector in exactly the same way per child as non fee paying schools are funded per child. The parent pays a premium on top of the standard, public funded cost. The parent subsidises the system.
2: “if the subsides were not in place to begin with and the private schools were only supported by the fees they charge, would we have any private schools at all”.
Incorrect, because there are no subsidies. What happens is that the parent pays over and above the amount which the education department is required by law (you are correct on that point alone) to spend on each child. Rather than repeat previous attempts by others to explain the matter, it is politely suggested that you take the time to read the succinct account at number 15 above.
3: “As you invest so much money in your child’s education at these schools, and technically are classed as share holder”.
No you are not. You are only a shareholder if you hold shares in a business which is run through a company. No parent will generally hold shares in a school, any more than a person would generally hold shares in a garage business if he or she were to purchase a vehicle from that business.
4: please remember that Eton is a private school and not a fee paying public one.
No, Eton is a public school as defined, I believe in some 19th century legal provision and as cited in popular parlance.
Finally: “The education structure of schools in jersey is wrong. There should only be a 2 tier ( public and private). That’s it”.
No, it works well at the moment because it enables parents to access a form of fee paying schooling bu supplementing the tax payment into a given child’s education with their own funds. It also supports the public purse to a very great extent. There are various explanations above which are worth reading in order to prevent erroneous posts persisting.
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and how can you possibly be ‘surprised’ when you’ve chosen a name that is an obvious derogatory rip off of the one I’ve chosen – it’s a bit late for the innocent scarecrow routine.
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Don’t you just love these posts which are put on in two parts (look at 99 and 101 above). It usually happens when a commentator is having a “hissy fit” diatribe and the fat little fingers can’t move fast enough to expel the thoughts onto paper before the fateful button is pressed. A second post then follows, hot on the heels of the first, in a vain attempt to remedy the problem.
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……and, while I am at it, Deputy Reed is a very naughty man indeed because he has caused all these problems. Like someone above said, its a bit late for him to undertake the innocent scarecrow routines; we voting crows have long memories!
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Yes, no, the analogy was between the model Jersey has adopted – extra funding supplied by parents , and the model introduced by the government that gave us the phrase Champagne Socialist in the first place, that of extra funding supplied by businesses.
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It does seem a little daft for Reed to tamper with a system which works particularly well and is fairly recession resistant; the upshot of his trouble making could be a sustantial cost to the public coffers if parents withdraw the subsidies which they pay to the fee paying states schools.
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As a taxpayer, I feel that as an island, we are getting a very poor return from the fully funded States sector and the president should be addressing these issues. Wrecking what is currently a very good business model is the last thing that the president should be doing. The leftist naysayers may disagree, but means testing for the non fee sector seems to be a possible way forward.
What James Reed wants to do is to put parents off sending their children to fee paying schools so the tax payer has to pay more money. Education would end up bankrupt. Reed probably wouldn’t care though, because he would be out of office by then. His legacy, though, could take decades to abate!
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Re 87, 91, 94-98, 100.
Maybe it would be a good idea for The JEP to print a sidebar feature explaining the conventional usage of ‘public school’ every time any thing to do with education is published.
Wayne clearly does not read his broadsheets very comprehensively (no pun intended) otherwise he would have by now read enough about real public schools to understand the quirky English nomenclature.
P.S. Hopefully the plethora of variants on the BBQKing theme will persuade the original poster to change to something less regal.
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This is just the start of the damage which Reed’s tampering will do. The innocent scarecrow analagy is ill fitting here; he’s more like a lumbering mamoth indiscriminately knocking down everything in his path. I am sure that our friend Ozouf is behind all of this but he is hiding behind Reed.
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Hi BBQ King @88
You could take the view that the “states” school kids are too thick to reach 50-75% benchmark
I don’t – I would bet your house on them achieving that if they went to one of the semi-fee schools
Mediocre kids enter the semi-fee schools at primary -they loose just a few percent
method, environment & ethos.
Those kids may be below the mean but they can achieve much more.
Do I have any confidence in it happening ?
NO.
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