Unemployment fight goes on
Wednesday 25th May 2011, 3:00PM BST.
Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf
FURTHER fears were raised about Jersey’s economy today after another rise in unemployment levels.
It is the third rise in figures this year, although it comes after a significant drop in March.
The new figures have revealed that the number of people out of work increased by 40 in April, with a total of 1,350 people registered as unemployed, 210 higher than in the same month last year.
Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf said that he was disappointed with the rise in unemployment, but added that the figures showed some positive signs for the economy.
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“Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf said that he was disappointed with the rise in unemployment, but added that the figures showed some positive signs for the economy”.
That’s a bit like finding you’ve died and gone to hell and saying “oh well, at least it’s warm”
Just what are the positive signs Big O, employers will be able to drive down wages even further?
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But still people are arriving off the boat – and tax payers are having to fund welfare payments – insanity!
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Never mind the economy what about the 1350 people that are out of work! my partner has been out of work for nearly 3 months and it is dishearting that when you go for a job that you know you can do blind folded and you dont get it because another 100 people have gone for the same job! the next thing is all this people will get depressed go to the Dr and claim sick money so back in to the circle of income support which the tax payer covers! i dont see anyone helping these people find jobs! and now the politicians want a pay rise (dream on guys) i dont think any of you live in real world!
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If Senator Ozouf seriously wanted to do something about unemployment he should have a word with his colleague Senator Maclean and tell him to stop encouraging UK businesses into the Island under the fatuous guise of competition or at least make them pay taxes to level the playing field. I know loads of local businesses laying people off due to lost business after Waitrose’s arrival and the latest one JD Weatherspoons won’t be any different.
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Figures showed some positive signs for the economy:
That s why you are all getting a pay rise next year, and last month we were told not to have a pay rise, to be sensible and patient.
210 more than last year is a positive sign, show me your figures….
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What do they expect when they are allowing more and more to step off of the boat straight to a job that any local could do?
Every shop,bank and building you enter nowadays is non-English speaking,and I am fed up having to repeat the same thing 3 or 4 times before they understand.
What a sorry state we are in when locals are put last, while employers would rather go for the cheapest labour they can find.
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no kidding, its the same picture in the uk as well.
to see the full veiw of the future economy, roll up your copy of the jep and peek down the middle and gaze about.
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‘But still people are arriving off the boat – and tax payers are having to fund welfare payments – insanity!’
Well maybe we can do a swap then. How about all the people from Jersey in the UK who are taking our jobs or taking out benefits go back to Jersey?! So xenofrickinphobic.
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Of course people are still arriving in Jersey – most Jersey people are too busy enjoying the benefits of welfare! Someone needs to do the work here.
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Yawn…..poor locals !! May the best man win the job, be it local or not. Stop whinging for goodness sake.
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MLP if it weren’t for minimum wage regs wages would be even lower for some.
A recession is a great excuse to
1. cut wages
2. cut conditions of service.
3. cut jobs due to a collegue doing your job as part of their job to enable them to still have a job…..
I don’t for one minute believe these figures to be correct. If the real figure was twice this it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest..
And by the end of the year I bet this person will be Chief Minister.
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CCat – Things are tough at the moment but there are people trying to help. You other half should have been assigned a ‘personal adviser’ at the Workzone (assuming he or she has gone and registered). There are various programmes offering support with CV skills, interview skills, IT courses, confidence building etc. They are more than willing to help those who themselves show willing.
I would encourage everyone out of work to register as unemployed to help our great leaders see the true picture.
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Ummmm until we start to control immigration this will happen, common sense I suppose.
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No 8 Don’t know what planet youre on, the size of UK to Jersey, I bet theres more people from UK in Jersey than there is Jersey people in UK.
There is a place about 8 miles from Liverpool called Widnes they have more of a population than Jersey so in my view a stupid comparison.
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Stop importing managers from outside the island and promote those already employed
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Just reading all the comments about people arriving off the boat taking your jobs! people spend a few days in Ireland and see how wrecked your head would be. there is not one Irish person working in our local store, there is no need for anyone to go to Poland for a weekend Poland came to Ireland!
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As a local (born and bred in Jersey) I am ashamed of the way some of us think, some of us are narrow-minded and racist.
If people move to Jersey, they mainly do so to make a better life for themselves. They often have to learn a new language, work hard and long hours (at minimum wage) and live in tiny squalid accommodation. These people do the jobs locals would consider beneath them.
Then we have the people brought here by the larger companies. Why? It’s because they have more experience, can add more value and are willing to work hard.
Some of us just want an easy job that pays well and the reality is that we’re not good enough to compete.
So, before we start slating everyone else and continue to think the island owes us a living maybe we should think about our own skill-sets and behaviours as it’s a competitive world.
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As long as 0/10 keeps hammering this island expect it to get only worse.Lets hope the EU declares it illegal.Wake up Ozouf,its not working,not even slightly.
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John 8
Xenophobia is defined as the “hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture”.
There is nothing xenophobic about no.2′s comments….just common sense.
If we have 1350 already unemployed with no work available then why is this TINY island letting in more jobseekers from around the globe??
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Parktown Prawn 17.
If there’s no work available, the migrant jobseekers will come, see for themselves then go elsewhere…so what’s the problem?
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4 Andrew bang on…you are so right these pair of incompetents should stand down on that issue alone….we are struggling and they let in outsiders to cherry pick work and go back having paid no tax social etc. it is shameful.
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Of course unemployment will rise. It is no coincidence that the upward trend started when social security took over responsible for welfare handouts from the Parishes. Lazy locals realise that they are about as well off whether they work or not, so an increasing number choose not to work.
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‘Xenophobia is defined as the “hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or of their politics or culture”.’
Having read a lot of comments on this site, I have to say that xenophobis is the correct term. The truth is that a lot of the jobs that are being taken by ‘incomers’ tend to be in shops and bars. It seems Jersey residents see this type of work as being below them but still complain when they are taken by migrants.
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I agree that a lot of incomers have worked damn hard and have had to put up with substandard accomodation, fair play to them. But times have changed and deputy Maclean needs to get his act together. It is election year and he is the one responsible for granting licenses for less than 5 year residents. They are not supposed to be issued for any job a 5 year resident can do. Why have I just been served by a guy who can hardly speak english in the coop. Also happened Sunday .
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I heard a polish saying that jersey needed them as they were better educated than the people here. And I guess the ones that aren’t educated enough just have a couple of kids, milk social, housing and the poor bloke who thought it was love awwww!! how sweet
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I own a company who for the last 8 year have employed 4 very hard working polish workers as locals have never wanted to work in this industry.As they have earned there money and paid for there house back home they now wish to stay and enjoy life with there children. Now here in the island the quality of labour who want to work and work well has stopped.They can earn the same money within germany 2 hour drive back to there home. Now for the last 3 months i am forced not to work because i cannot find skilled labour to fill 4 positions within my business from the EU.I can fill this by employing outside the EU within 12 hours. However we wish to start a training program to train young people to fill this gap but you cannot train trainies with trainies!!!
I have been told by a high level politician that i cannot employ on a permit for a year non EU skilled labour to train young locals here in jersey!!!! so what chance have the young got in this island when single minded people in power have ideas like that!!!! if permits were still used this would have been avoided 100% but you carnt turn the clocks back can you!!!
The problem in this island is the politicians dont no what it takes to run a business on this island, If states memebers were not paid like many years ago you would have business owners running the island not monkeys who are paid well over the odds. It would be interesting how many would like the states work if they were paid the min wage??? not 45k per year for sitting and f…… about.!!! Most of them havent got a clue about been an employer that why there is a problem with un employment in the island nothing else!!!
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@ 17 Mr Reality Checker
Thanks for your honest comment. Pretty much the only one here that addresses the issue as opposed to simply blaming everything on those coming from the outside world.
@ 20 Goldie Yawn
Fair comment and well spotted!
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I feel for no.3′s partner, I suspect the employer thinks it is likely they will leave when a better position arises and doesn’t want to train someone who is obviously over qualified. I would imagine a lot of people would also feel a little threatened if someone can do the job so easily
You also have to take a long hard look at the calibre of local candidates. A good friend is now on her third try of finding someone to do a regular job on regular wages. The first two were local and she was shocked at the motivation, lateness, laziness and general skiving. Her third attempt is a non islander, does an excellent job, obviously has a high rent in some bedsit to pay and knows if he doesn’t work he has nothing to fall back on.
It’s all very well wanting to protect our own, but there is a significant majority who are lost in the cotton wool and need a short, sharp kick up the *rse!
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please shut the door jersey is full
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Who said us Jersey people think that Bar work and Shop work is beneath us….you might but i certainly dont and have worked in both!! If you read the news print above…those who are recently unemployed worked in such positions and are now unemployed!! If you walk into any bar in town and percentage of shops…you will notice that the bar staff are polish, no offence…i know they are trying to make a living like we are! how ever when jersey residents are unable to get work in such area’s it stands to reason that there is something wrong with immigration and such! We need to close the gates now for a period of time while our economy builds back up and we have established ourselves as a thriving island again! Until then if we continue to allow people in our island will never revive itself from the position its in just now!
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(24)
Same here I avoid the Co-op for this reason.
It’s a case of spot the english speaking assistant.
I couldnt find an item and after asking 2 ( non english speaking) where i could find it, not one of them could assist me and directed me to the wrong item.
I walked out and found the item at Iceland with no bother.
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John #8
Jersey people are British citizens ,hold British passports and as such by birth right are entitled to work in the UK as is any British passport holder.
Nobody’s complaining about British citizens working in Jersey. However I do object to EU citizens being allowed to work here when I have stamped in my passport that I am not entitled to live or work in the EU.
Please get your facts right before making such silly statements.
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Real Truthseeker #9
As the Jerseyman is now a minority in the place of his birthright at least 50% of the people you slander are not likely to be Jersey born.
What an offensive statement to make.
Shame on you
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Thanks JRR Trollking for your info, my partner is local as i am, and has registered at Social as unemployeed, he goes in to keep them updated and they ask are u actively looking for work which of course he is, he has his CV with every agency you can think of, the prob is all the agencies have the same job for example one company puts there vacancy on all the agencies books so when you look you think there is lots of jobs but really there isnt! As for training he is qualified in what he does and still nothing! But thanks for the tips re Social, but he is already doing it.
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Rosy at 16 foretells how it will be over here if this unchecked immigration isn’t stopped. We are seeing the beginning now, the tip of the iceberg. McClean and Ozouf are safely in their ivory towers but the ordinary working and professional Jersey people have no such protection. The failure of the States to act is building up a future legacy of civil unrest within the island. It will be extremely unpleasant.
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Solution – Put a cap on immigration, increase the minimum wage and reduce benefits – people would soon be looking for and taking the jobs available then. More work would be available if there were less immigrants and more people would want to work if they were getting paid more and their benefits were being reduced. The States would save a fortune in many of the different types of benefit payments available – SIMPLES.
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STRANGE HOW FOR EXAMPLE: JPost can remove their IT department and bring in an Indian Company?
Hows that for supporting you locals…….
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“Milk the social”?! It’s no fun being unemployed, you don’t get anything without evidence that you’re continually looking for work.
Applying for jobs (competing with the other 1500 out of work) and being rejected over and over again is a depressing job in itself!
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Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf said that he was disappointed with the rise in unemployment, but added that the figures showed some positive signs for the economy”.
That’s a bit like finding you’ve died and gone to hell and saying “oh well, at least it’s warm”
Agree with you 100% how is postive for the economy meant to help someone like me who has a child to support, rent and bills to pay find a job… Been made redundant due to “cost cutting” within the companies 3 times in two years… Oh and then ask social for some assistance andy they tell you, sorry you’ve not made enough contributions in the last 6 months for warrant assistance – they don’t take into consideration though the last 12 years of contributions I have paid – only look at the last six months – what a joke!!!!!
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I’m not sure that you can instantly class people who are saying “Jersey is full” as xenophobic. They are not advocating that non-Jersey people are kicked out of the island just that with unemployment as it is there is no sense in allowing more people into the island. You are infering xenophobia, why not give people the benefit of the doubt? Bear in mind some of those people coming off the boat are Jersey born and looking to return to the island.
I would expect any country that had rising unemployment to understand that its first duty is to the people already living there (regardless of their nationality). THEY are paying the taxes after all.
The issue of unemployment needs to be tackled, how are people supposed to tackle it if they cannot speak openly and have to fear false accusations of xenophobia at every turn?
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#14 “I bet theres more people from UK in Jersey than there is Jersey people in UK.”
I’d doubt it! Think how many people of working age have been born in Jersey over the decades, where are they all? If working age is up to 60 that’s 6 decades worth of births, certainly a lot more people than are currently living in Jersey and since we know that a large number of the people living in Jersey were not born here that must allow for even more Jersey born people being elsewhere (likely the UK).
Still, if you’re going to make that kind of point it’s always worth remembering that your compatriots will be receiving far better treatment in the UK than UK people get here, that should make you happy.
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36.SBSY
Well said
Simple….
What are they waiting for…
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I likes to big shout xenophobe about anyone who care about there own country. Most other peoples who shout it in that way dont know what it means either. It just funny they thinks to say it here to annoy people who care about Jersey. I don’t think it do annoy them because they know that it is silly word used by smalls peoples who dont know what it really means, this peoples are like a two year old.
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No 9, your record is well and truly scratched.
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36.”more people would want to work if they were getting paid more and their benefits were being reduced”
If they don’t want to work now to avoid the necessity of Soc Sec handouts then they really aren’t going to want to work at a later date, irrespective of the minimum wage.
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The minimum wage simply means that the taxpayer lines the pockets of employers because a considerable number of people on six quid an hour can’t live on it and claim income support to supplement the artificially low wage. As said above;
1. Stop immigration immediately.
2. Abolish the minimum wage.
3. Cut income support. This one should only be done after 1 and 2 have been successfully undertaken.
We all used to do odd jobs when we were younger. Most young and not so young local people would still do them if they could get a foot in the door.
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I am a Jersey person who has worked in many bars and restaurants but I now work in finance. I have always worked hard, probably due to the fact it was drummed into me by my parents, ‘if you dont’ work you don’t earn’ (pocketmoney had to be worked for in our family). It doesn’t matter what nationality a person is, it is their attitude to work. There are many lazy locals over here, but there are also the EU arrivals who seem to come over here for the ride and to get benefits. If they all had to work for benefits (didn’t the parishes used to do this?) and then received vouchers instead of cash surely being on income support wouldn’t be so appealing? At the moment with not enough work over here I do think that immigration needs to be controlled with work permits. So many of the immigrants are paid cash in hand and then send all of it back to their own countries to pay for their new houses to be built that the money certainly isn’t going back into the economy here, and I know for a fact that a lot of these people earning cash in hand don’t declare it to the tax or pay social on any of their earnings.
And we Jersey people cannot live or work in the EU either, a little unfair maybe?
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real truthseeker , i work and so do my localy born mates, the local worker is as cheesed off with the scroungers as much as you.
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OK, we’ve all had our gripes & grumbles so lets move on. How about new ways to create revenue, industry and employment?
Maybe my ideas may be seen as naive and simplistic, but it’s just ideas:-
1. The media industry. This is a huge industry covering aspects such as video games, CGI, editing and music just to name a few. With Fort Regent sitting there with sections dormant, we could set something up to exploit this.
2. Further education. There are offices and other buildings empty and large numbers of flats unsold. The UK is seeing many people give up on the idea of going to university because of the rising costs. Could this situation be exploited to help them, but more importanly benefit Jersey? We could teach law, accountancy, IT, marine biology & endangered species conservation at the drop of a hat given the resources at hand already.
Lets forget tourism (We dont want the bucket & spade brigade phrase ring a bell?) and our agriculture is in tatters, so why not think out of the box instead of sitting in our prams and throwing dollies and toys into the corner.
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no.47 you are right that a big problem is “cash in hand” but the local population (and here I mean those living and working and paying taxes) need to take control of this. I will pay cash but always ask for a proper invoice or receipt so that the payment is traceable and I think those that get 10% knocked off need to remember that they will end up paying for it in the end in lost social securoty contributions and tax receipts.
Another thing that needs looking at is the small army of cleaners, gardeners, small house repair jobs etc. that work for a few hours for a lot of different people and therefore fall out of the system. Each household that employs anyone should have to fill in a simple online form stating who has worked for them, social security number and amount paid. They may fall outside the minimum 8 hours s/s rule but at least they would start paying tax.
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45. Cathy – I dont agree – many businesses say locals wont take jobs, take the hospitaility trade for example, and they make all sorts of excuses as to why – when we all know the real reason is because the wages are very poor. If people were paid a decent wage that made it much more beneficial for them to work (especially if their benefits have been reduced)then I am sure many more people would be far keener to get back to work. It is a well known fact that at present many people are better off on benefits so why would they want to work.
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…. and of course there are many many more of us unemployed who have not registered ourselves !!
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47, you can’t have it both ways. Jersey chooses to stay outside of the EU. Implementing it would raise costs per family here by north of £2k per annum via compulsory transfer payments to the less affluent countries in the Union, CAP payments and minimum 15% VAT plus a few others. We would also have to introduce a raft of new legislation to meet certain minimum standards. Much of the success of Jersey’s Finance Industry is because it is outside the EU. Join the EU and play by the rules and then I would have some time for your whinge about not being able to work in mainland Europe. Fancy 40% tax on any income above £35K? Thought not.
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Bob the facts are EU nationals have unfettered access to jobs in Jersey and the same doesn’t apply in reverse.
A stamp in a passport is derrogatory in my opinion.
As there are only 4-5k with this issue maybe finance would be prepared to pay remuneration to these people for this inconvenience?
After all it would be but a token payment in return for the luxury of doing business here.
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51 SBSy
We will have to agree to disagree.
A person with a strong work ethic would not sit back and take S/S just because they are not making more in regular employment. Why drop the minimum wage to pay someone more when they obviously really don’t want to work in the first place? If they are any good at what they do, they won’t be on the minimum wage for long. Although many start at £6.50 an hour in Hospitality,good permanent staff are hard to find and I know many who are on £9-£12 per hour. They get there by showing initiative, enthusiasm and hard work, which someone who accepts s/s rather than a job because it doesn’t pay enough – will always be lacking.
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“If they are any good at what they do, they won’t be on the minimum wage for long. ………They get there by showing initiative, enthusiasm and hard work, which someone who accepts s/s rather than a job because it doesn’t pay enough – will always be lacking”.
Really? What planet are you on? You’re not an employer by any chance are you? A government stooge?
The first year brainwashing message from your post seems to be; “come and work for me at a rate which has to be propped up by income support while I make nice profits from you and the taxpayer and, if you’re a good little girl or boy, I might even consider paying you a proper wage one day if I like you and if you know your place…..no promises, mind”
Get real, please. Very often it’s those who are good at what they do that get the most flack from an employer, particularly where the employee’s skills exceed those of the employer. And as for the rest, well I think the answer to that is clear enough.
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I work for a small business doing books which I have said in previous posts. I do also have a number of close friends with small businesses.
Are you classing all employers as government stooges – that made me smile, it reminded me of my mum telling me as a child not to make sweeping statements. Try not to make that statement too loud when standing in your corner shop, ordering coal or a pizza, and definitely not when your electrician or plumber are close by or you might end up with more than a debate! Not all employers are PLC companies.
My message was quite the opposite and I’m sorry I didn’t make myself clear, I’ll say it again a little slower. For clarity, I am relating this to the small businesses that I know and their struggle for good and reliable staff.
If someone starts on a lower wage and works well i.e. arriving on time, performing the tasks listed in their employment contract, shows a little initiative and is eager to learn – the majority of (small) businesses who struggle to get staff showing any commitment would be more than happy to pay a decent wage to avoid losing the staff member and taking the risk of having to re-train (which is expensive) a replacing with a possibly less superior candidate. Most small businesses employ less than five people – so if your local electrician part of a team of 3, he won’t risk losing a good employer by not paying him £10+ an hour. The starting rate when training would have been closer to the minimum.
No employer who expects to keep their business long would ever “give flack” to an employee of a good calibre. I suspect if you are talking from personal experience, the agressiveness in your post might need toning down a little?
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I think the government is doing what it can… it is trying to bring in compulsory maternity leave to ensure that women in Jersey are unemployable.
It has bought in redundancy so that everyone gets sacked after 23 months of work.
It is trying to raise social security to ensure that people get paid less.
Ozouf is disappointed with the figures… come on people sack more of your staff we have to please Ozouf!
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A couple of years ago a son of mine went for a bar job in a local nightclub and was told they only employed Polish.
I don’t think that a large proportion of local youth are really lazy, just that the education they receive does not properly prepare them for work.
With the emphasis on everyone passing downgraded exams, there is no incentive to think that the world outside school is competitive. I don’t blame the teachers as I believe that most have their pupils wellbeing at heart but are tied by the system.
When a lot of children leave school, making their mark on the world comes as a great shock to them.
Having employed a lot of young Saturday staff and school leavers over the the years, I have found most to be pleasant and willing to learn and help and uncomplaining. It’s just that you have to have patience and guide them as they have no idea of the workplace; maybe a lack of parental guidance is responsible in some cases.
I would say to employers, give the local school-leavers a chance generally they’re not as bad as the few miscreants you read about.
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There are currently over sixty vacancies for Qualified Nurses across Health and Social Services, so there is an employer offering secure States jobs with good pay.
Sadly a recent recruitment drive aimed at attracting local people into a career in nursing only managed to to draw a handful of wannabe applicants. These applicants if suitably qualified would have been trained in basic nursing skills and given the opportunity to commence Nurse training through the Open University and Nurse Education department.
This training would give young locals a qualification they can travel the world with, a certain amount of job security, an enormous amount of job satisfaction and a reasonable salary starting off at 27k and reaching up to 36k.
So why did it attract so little attention from locally unemployed. Granted a career in Nursing is not for everyone, it has unsocial and long hours, it can often be unrewarding and dirty, but on the other hand it has to be one of the most rewarding jobs there can b. A job were you can meet so many interesting people and a job were you face so many daily challenges. I do find it frustrating that in a time of high unemployment so many vacancies which could be filled by locals if they applied for the training are still vacant.
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You have hit the nail on the head nigel, a lot are willing but not quite prepared for the shock of being in a working environment. One other thing I would say I have noticed is stamina. In this day of computer games and Facebook, teenagers are far less fit than the previous generation.
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What a funny and ignoreant post at 57. I thought that the original post by the person concerned sounded naive, now the second post confirms this. Try reading the posts to which you respond, dear. I don’t think that Kate’s (?) message did say that employers were government stooges, rather the two concepts were posed in the alternative. I agree with Kate that it sounds as though you are living in Toytown. Not to worry, it made me smile so please keep it up. It’s nice to see such fresh innocence. I guess bookkeeping isn’t the best job for cultivating worldly views, love, it might need toning down a little?
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Cathy said “My message was quite the opposite and I’m sorry I didn’t make myself clear, I’ll say it again a little slower.”.
Then goes on to make clear that she has misread someone else’s post. Read the post again a little slower and then you might understand the words. It made me smile a little because it reminded me of my mother telling me to read things properly before jumping to conclusions. The bit about confronting hardworking tradesmen sounds a bit aggressive so you might like to wind it in a bit?, otherwise you could end up with something more than you bargained for.
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I have laughed at the post left by Cathy and the response from Kate, the latter having met with a swift rebuke from Cathy. Ouch meeow!
The respective posts raise some interesting points. Having been engaged for many years in the corporate sector, I can say that there is certainly an element of jealousy and “drawbridge syndrome” with regard to those coming up the ladder.
In a large amount of cases, the junior people are very much better qualified on paper than the elder statemen, some of whom might hold no formal qualifications at all. Sometimes the junior contemporaries are more experienced and, to be honest, much brighter as well.
Cathy would argue that these qualities will inevitably bring success and good fortune. Well, no, actually in a lot of cases they will not. Those with an interest in the company and in their own senior positions will often ensure that the upstarts are kept in their place, to use the vernacular. Directorships and other senior positions are withheld. The upper echelons will play this game as much as they can get away with it, which is usually to a very great extent!
I was interested in reading of Cathy’s confusion and the subsequent aggression which arose from her having misread the other person’s comment. As a book keeper, I should have thought that attention to detail was an overriding concern. I am somewhat glad that she is not doing my books as I fear that the comptroller would be knocking on my door in early course!
Finally, I love to hear of one’s formative parental influences. As Cathy said, she was taught not to make sweeping generalisations. Apart from the fact that that benevolent message does not appear to have been followed if some of her above posts are to be taken at face value, it seems clear that the maternal lectures did not extend to wisdom of human nature, worldly views and the ability to deal with the views of others.
Having said as much, it is perhaps fair to surmise in closing that a background in bookeeping might not be the most fertile area for the fostering of inter personal skills and good old fashioned street wisdom.
Take care!
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At this time of year, the unemployment figures should be reducing.
Senator Ozouf that the signs are encouraging, what the hell is he talking about, could he please explain?
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Leah 41
erm…..perhaps they are not ALL in the UK!
There are other, more attractive countries out there you know!
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Glad to be keeping eveyone amused (if indeed we have more than one person posting as the writing style is very similar for different posters – triplets perhaps?)
I have gone away to count my blessings that the people I have met, worked for, and friends who own small businesses are far nicer human beings than the unfortunate bosses you colectively seem to have met
Take care
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Lovin this – think 52,62,63,64 are same person – if 56. and all her mates had spoken a little nicer u wudn’t get a fiunny reply?
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Cathy said “that made me smile, it reminded me of my mum telling me as a child not to make sweeping statements.”
She then said “In this day of computer games and Facebook, teenagers are far less fit than the previous generation”.
Clearly, someone who hasn’t listened to her mother
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many businesses say locals wont take jobs, take the hospitaility trade for example, and they make all sorts of hollow excuses as to why – when we all know the real reason is because the wages are very poor and often subsidised by the taxpayer through income support. If people were paid a decent wage that made it much more beneficial for them to work (especially if their benefits have been reduced)then we are sure many more people would be far keener to get back to work.
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Why would you need stamina to do books? Do you take them for a run with you?
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I think that 55, 57, 61 and 67 are the same person. They all have that blinkered yet inadequately patronising angle. I could be wrong though. I think others might have posted under different names, but they might be the same person as well. Difficult to say really. I suppose there is some interest to be derived from trying to work out who really means what they say and who is indeed small minded and “nerdy bookish”.
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“At this time of year, the unemployment figures should be reducing.
Senator Ozouf that the signs are encouraging, what the hell is he talking about, could he please explain?”
I doubt if he could explain, or if he has any intention of doing so. This is pure spin. That means that a politician says something in the hope that, if he says it enough times, he and, crucially, the voters, might start to believe it.
Dream on.
The other type of spin (also seen in our ministers), is when something is found, usually through an enquiry to be wrong/illegal with the matter for which a given politician has responsibility. The squirming politician will then say that he “welcomes the findings”, evn though no sane person would. Ozouf himself is fond of using the term “exciting”, usually to describe something that has negative connotations for the taxpayer.
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Put a cap on immigration, increase the minimum wage and reduce benefits – people would soon be looking for and taking the jobs available then. More work would be available if there were less immigrants and more people would want to work if they were getting paid more and their benefits were being reduced. The States would save a fortune in many of the different types of benefit payments available – SIMPLES.
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69. Fi
Not a sweeping statement – a proven one
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237699/How-UK-children-failing-fitness-test.html
Just type in google – Fitness, kids, computers – you will be able to find dozens of professional articles. I’m sure my mum would have agreed if I had been able to discuss this with her.
71.Xbox – Who is your question addressed to? The conversation is about teenagers needing stamina for any employment, maybe some use books and others don’t? Not sure I understand.
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I’ve had quite a few teenagers here tonight + my own and I don’t think they have the stamina we had as kids. No bike rides, no walking, even walking the dogs is an effort. Brought this up with the kids and they agreed. Obviously they then discussed computer for A level revision etc and denied they are on facebook but they spend a lot more time sitting than us parents did. All of us parents seem to say the same thing fi.
xbox “Why would you need stamina to do books? Do you take them for a run with you?” made me keel over. Totally didn’t understand the whole conversation and in one go have doomed your generation and made Cathys point. Ha ha
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I guess if 57 and all her mates had been a bit nicer and bothered to read posts properly they wouldm’t get funny replies.
Back to topic, What do they expect when they are allowing more and more to step off of the boat straight to a job that any local could do?
Every shop, bank and building you enter nowadays is non-English speaking,and I am fed up having to repeat the same thing 3 or 4 times before they understand. I had it the other day at a very well known local financial institution with a receptionist; clearly not essentially employed, like most of them.
It will all implode sooner rather than later one hopes.
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Goodness me! Having trouble following this one!
Cathy and SBSY are having a nice little debate and in comes and indignant Kate. Rather indignant, definitely sarcastic and obviously not very happy with her boss!
Back comes Cathy perhaps a tad simplistic, perhaps just lucky with her employer as she says but seemingly trying not to repeat the sarcasm but with a post (57) with a sting in the tail.
Kate doesn’t “reply” but 62. 63 and 64 wade in – possibly Kate on a roll as 68. has seen?
Fi (perhaps Kate’s sister) replies with much of the same and xbox has been in his box too long and totally misunderstood the point!
No wonder our States members get confused
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77 david
I read 56. post same way as the person who replied. Just read it again and can see it can be taken both ways.
Dont you mean 56 should have been nicer – there is too much of this bitterness on here. Why can’t we have a nice debate without name calling. We are all entitled to our opinions.
reminds me of the conversations I hear in the back of the bus sometimes.
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72. Puzzled
There is an irony in being called patronising for posting my opinion (in my own name) when you post a comment like that.
73. elaine
Normally as you say unemployment should be reducing at this time of year. I have noticed there are a lot fewer jobs for the university students than normal. It is spin, and our politicians must be squirming and very worried as these figures will continue to rise – not good in an election year!
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Professional articles are all very well, but they tend to show one side of an argument. If you’re happy to read the one side, then you are clearly the gullible audience which is sought. A sweeping statement is a sweeping statement, irrespective of alleged evidence, eg, all bookeepers lack social skills! Right I’m off to go for a ten mile run followed by some stereotypical teenage activities because we’re all the same you know!
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Cathy reads the daily mail. Why am I not surprised. And obviously believes everything she reads in it.
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It does not matter what I pay my staff all the locals I have had in the past 5 years have caused me problems.
The more I pay the less they want to do and more time they have off sick. I wish I could employ non locals but that is not allowed.
Dishonest, thieving, lazy, miserable, liars who do not want to get their hands dirty and are barely numerate or literate. Is unfortunately my experience. More than 60% did not turn up to an interview. Some of those that did were not keen on mopping a floor or washing up as part of their duties.
I feel there is a growing black economy among the locals in Jersey with much more undeclared income than there was only a few years ago.
I am local back for generations before WW2 I am not prejudiced just practical. I now have locals working for me who are saving to go away and study and they are great workers but not permanent.
Not until those who are claiming benefit are made to work for the States to get their benefits will they actually seek work and do unpopular jobs.
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Theres irony in all of this. I read sarcasm and bitter unpleasantness in Cathy’s bits, though the others could have been written better. No 56 looks clear to me but Im no expert. Cathy/Wanda and other alias we know you read the daily mail and believe what it says but could you just accept that youve had your say and move on from the sweeping statements plse. I dont think you understand how you come across or even what you say- sorry. If youre so clever you should set an example instead of sitting up all night waiting to score points.
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I must admit that I am confused now. If it’s mental stamina that Cathy alludes to, then there are studies which show that computer games can assist the development of such traits.
If it is physical stamina, then the x box kid hits the nail on the head. How fit do you have to be to keep books? People laugh at such seeming irrelevance. How fit indeed. But then Cathy/Wanda and others (same persons?) did mention climbing trees etc in the classic “daily mail 1950s famous five” spirit so perhaps you do need to be fit to keep books?
Whatever the case, a diploma in sarcasm, patronising generalisations and old fashioned daily mail (that term again) small mindedness would also seem to be requisite qualities if someone’s posts are anything to go by (no names but you will know who you are!)
Please reply, this is becoming an interesting and entertaining insight into the psychology of the blue rinsed middle english!
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The problem with stereotypes regarding teenagers, job seekers etc is that they are generalizations (so there are always exceptions) and can be based on ignorance and prejudice (so are often inaccurate).
I agree that many businesses say locals wont take jobs, take the hospitaility trade for example, and they make all sorts of excuses as to why – when we all know the real reason is because the wages are very poor. If people were paid a decent wage that made it much more beneficial for them to work (especially if their benefits have been reduced)then I am sure many more people would be far keener to get back to work.
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81.82 There was a similar (factual) article in the Lancet – I thought that one would be easier to follow- apologies for over simplifying.
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#66 I made that point myself!!! But we are talking about a lot of people, most likely to go somewhere with the same first language, also many of whom will have gone to University in the UK and won’t have come back.
Still more than the number of UK people currently in Jersey.
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Goodness me! Having trouble following this one!
Cathy and SBSY are having a nice little one sided debate and in come Kate to make a contribution. Rather defensive but clearly exasperated with Cathy’s naive and less than worldly views.
Back comes Cathy perhaps a tad simplistic, perhaps just lucky with her clearly tolerant employer as she says in her post (57) which contains some unpleasant personal remarks. Daily Mail Cath posts further unpleasant posts under various names in order to see off the interloping Kate, who has dared, not only to express a view, but to differ with those expressed by daily mail.
Kate doesn’t “reply” but 62. 63 and 64 wade in – possibly Kate under assumed names but perhaps not. Kate presumably didn’t reply to the small minded one because she couldn’t be bothered to do so. Either that or she had better things to do than to sit up all night like the pedantic number cruncher, ever vigilent to ensure that she is the one with the last caustic word. (I’m right, aren’t I?)
Fi (perhaps Kate’s sister) replies with much of the same and xbox has been in his box too long and totally misunderstood the point in the withering estimation of some, even though Cathy alluded to physical stamina! Perhaps that would be required if you happen to be running away from a liquidator
No wonder our States members get confused
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I’m a teenager and I love climbing trees. So that’s Cathy’s general sweeping statement knackered!
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It should be noted that bookkeeping is not necessarily the same as keeping books.
I have a number of books that I keep for sentimental reasons. I might even start carrying them around to increase my stamina.
I know very little about keeping the other kind of books because, although the tax man likes pestering me, I have very few assets and even less income.
I have noticed that Kate is usually one of the snootier and more indignant posters on here but she does live in States housing (her previous expressed admiration for the other Terry is understandable) and appears to believe in hard work and pulling oneself up by the bootstraps. I am beginning to see that she has a grip on reality.
I haven’t quite got the measure of Cathy yet but Treetop need not worry too much about her being a Daily Mail reader. Plenty of us read the Daily Mail if it is lying around but don’t necessarily buy it or believe it!
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I expect that the Lancet, while lamenting the obesity problem which seems to befall todays people (not just teenagers) will also allude to the well documented changes in neural pathways and mental agility which the computer generation already displays. Sweeping statements are bad enough; selective scientific quotes are another. There is obviously celar confusion in the poster’s mind between physical stamina and the mental equivalent.
I don’t agree with the bigoted tone of post 83 and I wonder if it could be a false wind up. I also wonder why such blatently racist comments are allowed on an apparently mature forum such as this.
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Leah
As much as you like to think you know everything…..you are talking utter nonsense there.
“I’d doubt it! Think how many people of working age have been born in Jersey over the decades, where are they all? If working age is up to 60 that’s 6 decades worth of births, certainly a lot more people than are currently living in Jersey and since we know that a large number of the people living in Jersey were not born here that must allow for even more Jersey born people being elsewhere (likely the UK).”
…..and where did the parents of all these 6 decades of Jersey borns come from hey Leah……. “likely the UK”!!!
Using your logic, I’d like to know where 6 decades of UK (or any other, larger country for that matter) people of working age are right now???
I would say those numbers would be a hell of a lot higher than Jersey’s expats, wouldn’t you??
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I don’t know if the Lancet is easier to follow than the daily mail or vice versa, interesting comment, although generalisations and sweeping statements are seldom, if ever, the mark of an intelligent debate. There has already been a number of such generalisations, some of which are particularly unpleasant. Let’s hope that we have heard the last of this bigoted nonsense please.
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Most of the Australian populace is originated from the English but they don’t feel like they owe the English a living. Quite the opposite in fact. I know that’s a sweeping statement (I know, I know) but their immigration policies would seem to bear it out.
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Some observations from our workplace;
Locals
Browse Facebook
Play games on their mobiles
Often sick.
Non Local.
Hard working
Seldom sick
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There are two problems to unemployment in Jersey. Firstly Jersey people won’t do work unless they are paid a mountain to do basic jobs, or they don’t have the level of education and training required. They expect to go into high salary jobs. there will always be high unemployment of Jersey people for this very reason. Foreigners like msyelf have made this island. Not locals. Locals stay at home playing PS3 and Nintendo, and claim benefits. I know,gross generalisation, but I bet it isn’t far off the money.
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Not a wind up,I only wish it was. This is from my own direct experience not rumour speculation or something I have read or imagined.
Not my opinion but my experience and of course well documented as is necessary in this age of unfair dismissal claims.
It might be hard to swallow but not all locals are honest and hard working. As the recent exam sham shows many are leaving secondary education without the basic skills necessary for work.
It may be as the imported workforce actually got up and did something to find work they are more determined to make a success of any job they get.
It has not mattered what race, ethnicity, religion or sex of the locals has been, those who I have employed have been lots of work to the point of being unprofitable to employ.
I am not racist I just want reliable honest staff and use my previous experiences to make judgements to that end.
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Let’s face it, there are some very lazy locals, but equally there are some very lazy non-locals.
In my opinion, someones work ethic is not determined by where they were born, but more by the environment they are in.
I have no problem with the BEST person getting the job, but I do have a problem if a not so qualified person gets the job simply because they’re cheaper.
What I also object to is having non-english speaking persons filling jobs which should at least require the basic need to speak english…..all in the name of saving a buck or 2.
My partner was in need of surgery some time ago but the doctor could barely communicate with her……many a time they got their wires crossed…and these are people with the authority to cut people up and feed chemicals
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‘Most of the Australian populace is originated from the English but they don’t feel like they owe the English a living. Quite the opposite in fact. I know that’s a sweeping statement (I know, I know) but their immigration policies would seem to bear it out.’
As an Aussie myself, Australia encourages migrants to come if they fit certain job criteria which cannot be filled by locals. Your chances of migrating also increase if you are under 30 or have a large amount of money in the bank (so in that way its a bit like Jersey).
However the dark side of Aussie immigration is that you will much more likely be allowed in, if you are white, thus why English people are actually given an easy ride into Aussie so no its not really ‘quite the opposite’.
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98, if you are indeed a business proprietor then I fear for the island’s small business economy. Many who are racist plead that they are not. The foul and disgusting words of your previous post are clear enough. You are not fit to hold a reg unds licence if the word of your first post, from which you have admittedly back pedalled, are how you conduct your affairs with prospective and actual employees.
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I agree with Ben at 100. I had a devil of a job getting in there. Immigration is difficult indeed, even if you are of english decent.
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The future
“It does not matter what I pay my staff all the locals I have had in the past 5 years have caused me problems.”
Yes it does matter actually, hence the saying “pay peanuts and you get monkeys!”.
“Dishonest, thieving, lazy, miserable, liars who do not want to get their hands dirty and are barely numerate or literate. Is unfortunately my experience.”
Where do you do your recruiting? States Chambers?
Furthermore, some of your postings would tend to highlight you are not so literate yourself so don’t throw stones in glass houses!
“More than 60% did not turn up to an interview. Some of those that did were not keen on mopping a floor or washing up as part of their duties.”
Have you bothered to give these jobseekers a proper job description either in your advertisement or in the interview? If people knew the job role from the onset then I’m sure they would not have applied if that was the case…..it would have saved them wasting their own time as well as yours!
BTW, I’m curious to know how you knew that the 60% who did not turn up were ALL locals?
“I feel there is a growing black economy among the locals in Jersey with much more undeclared income than there was only a few years ago.”
This is only perpetuated by those who employ them cheaply and pay “cash in hand”.
“I now have locals working for me who are saving to go away and study and they are great workers but not permanent.”
This is a bit of a contradiction to your first comment stating ALL the locals you’ve had have caused you problems.
Remember, there are some very unscrupulous EMPLOYERS out there too….it’s not all the fault of the jobseeker!
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Not surprising that many english can get into Oz, it’s their country anyway really, well, stolen off the abbos as it was. Like yoghurt, oz might eventually develop a culture of its own but I wouldn’t bet on it unless you like warm beer.
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pp at 103; hit the nail on the head. Attempts to reason are misplaced probably because I think that the person who has said all the inflammatory traddle is some sort of troll or wind up agent.
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#102 ‘I had a devil of a job getting in there. Immigration is difficult indeed, even if you are of english decent’
Would decent English help?
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Better than being of english indecent then you would have even less chance of getting in!
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To the future,
do you:-
1. pay a proper wage
2. have decent conditions of employment
3. pay for annual leave and bank holidays
4. pay for sick leave when certified
5. have decent management who care about your employees
Remember the old saying
pay peantus and you get monkeys.
Take advantage of people and many will return the favour ten fold.
I must say I smell overtones of RT and his other avatars here
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#93 I’ve never suggested I know everything, I simply know that Jersey already has a large population of Madeirans, Eastern Europeans and other Europeans (the non-Jersey borns I referred to that you seemingly took issue with) That’s documented.
As for the people born in the UK over 60 years a large number of them are still in the UK (hence its population explosion), but of course others are all around the world. I still think there will be more Jersey-born folk there than UK-born folk here though, to Jersey people this might seem like heaven but if you’re looking for career opportunities then of course you’re likely to head elsewhere, how many Jersey young people can get their degrees and come back here and use them?
Still, I totally agree with you on #99, some people on this island have a ridiculous stereotype towards locals in the workplace. I’ve worked with a few lazy locals but nothing like the number of lazy non-locals I’ve worked with, and I predominantly work with locals just now and they are friendly, helpful, trustworthy and incredibly hard working. Also agree about the ability to speak English, I’ve had a doctor over here that couldn’t and that was a nightmare. And as a member of the public, how much of your week gets wasted trying to explain something to, say, a customer service assistant that wouldn’t be taken up if the standard of English was higher?
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I agree Adrian. It is most unsavoury and divisive troublemaking as some (eg RT) are wont to do. Best wishes.
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Leah
I am still not buying your assumption that there are more jersey born folk of working age living in UK compared to UK folk here.
I’d also just like to tweak your figures slightly.
“If working age is up to 60 that’s 6 decades worth of births”….unless we jump out of the womb into a job I would use a more conservative figure of, say, 4 decades.
I was born in Jersey and I know very few people who are pure Jersey “breed”. Most people I know or grew up with have some connection to UK, either by their parents or grandparents.
Please remember that there have been many more than 4 decades of UK nationals immigrating to the island…….so to say the opposite is true is quiet absurd.
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No Adrian – to rpely to your post, I only post under Real Truthseeker, because that is what I am. The Real Truthseeker.
I agree with the point about paying peanuts and getting monkeys wholeheartedly. Which is why the Chief Minister and Ministers MUST be paid considerably more than they do now.
I am comforted that you agree with me on that point.
Johm at 110 – your mis-spelling of your own name highlights complete idiocy…
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I don’t understand why Adrian keeps posting at all. We all know by now he hates the States, hates business, loves the EU, loves higher taxes; presumably he hates everybody (that’s just my take on it, thinking about the results of his views) so why does he keep posting the same old message, over and over? Sad.
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“I agree with the point about paying peanuts and getting monkeys wholeheartedly. Which is why the Chief Minister and Ministers MUST be paid considerably more than they do now.”
It will not make any difference what you pay the Chief Minister or Ministers you will get the same old crew.
I pretty much know who all the Constables who will be elected next time round are, there are eight certainties there. Four seats up for grabs if your face fits!
Of the twenty nine deputies, I reckon twenty are near shoe ins if they stand. Nine at most in contention I reckon
Six Senators will not have to stand including the likeliest Chief Minister, of the four seats open at least two or three could fall to established Senators.
So give or take at most maybe eighteen seats it will be the same bunch of fifty one monkeys!
We can pay the Chief Minister £500K a year it will still be Phillip Ozouf in November!
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112; misunderstanding of names from non-english sphere shows even greater idiocy and bigotry to boot!
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“No Adrian – to rpely to your post, I only post under Real Truthseeker, because that is what I am. The Real Truthseeker.” Ha ha ha! That is the last thing that you are. Your aim seems to be to cause disruption and annoyance to other person s posting; not a very honourable distinction. Every forum’s got one! I should try to learn how to spell as well if I were you.
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Freferick you are closer to the mark than you think with your penultimate sentence! A well known man is he.
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If you pay more than peanuts then you just end up with more expensive monkeys.
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