States Members’ pay: What should it be?
Thursday 26th May 2011, 2:58PM BST.
How much should Members earn?
HOW much do you think States Members should be paid?
It is a question which has provoked fierce debate for years and one that Islanders are now being invited to answer.
The States Members’ Remuneration Review Body, which recommends to the States how much elected politicians should be paid, has launched a public consultation.
The four members of the body – Island businessman Julian Rogers, retired head teacher Brian Bullock, former States Member Maurice Dubras and ex Policy and Resources chief executive John Mills – are preparing to offer their recommendations for the 2012 salary of States Members.
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I don’t think they should be paid at all, just get a small expenses allowance to cover administration costs.
Paid politicians have not worked, the Island seemed much better run when the states members were businessmen who had a knowledge and a vested interest in the Islands economy, unlike the present lot, that seemed totally detached from the reality of the problems facing Jersey’s many industries.
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It should be a nominal figure plus expenses to ensure that any individual representing the island is motivated by a desire to benefit the island rather than his/her self.
Also any person wishing to occupy this position should already have a proven track record in business to ensure a comprehensive understanding of business practices.
Car park attendants need not apply.
Lets say around, £20,000 the real average wage in Jersey.
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Simple – they should be paid what they are worth.
Oh, hang on – can’t do that. It would be in contravention of the minimum wage law.
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A states member should be paid what he or she is worth, which, when looking at the current lot, would be £3.50 a week max.
Personally, I would reduce the number of politicians by a third, and triple their salaries, then perhaps we might attract a decent calibre of person who could step into the role of running a department that he or she actually knows something about with proven track records and evidence of skills and talent.
Having a bunch of farmers and carpenters, who are only politicians because they can’t get work elsewhere, running multi million pound departments defies all logic.
I wouldn’t trust some of this lot to feed my cat… And I don’t even have a cat!
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If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
The States need to have honest and experienced business people, not people voted in by half a dozen of their mates at the Parish hall.
Deputies should be done away with, and Constables not allowed to sit in the States.
Potential candidates should meet a minimum criteria for education and experience before they stand.
I would suggest that once the dead wood has been cleared out and the numbers reduced to only include people of the highest calibre – their salary should be reflective of a senior position within a private company – ie at least double their current earnings.
This would, in my opinion, attract the correct person wishing to further the needs of the Island, rather than themselves.
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A pay freeze, like most islanders, until the numpties balance the budget.
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They should only get a pay rise if everybody else working for states gets the same percentage.
Otherwise forget it,we are supposed to be in a recession and it is only fair to treat everyone the same,if this is the case.
Also the pensioners were short-changed last year with a mere pittance, while they enjoyed £20 a week rise compared to pensioners less than £2.
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Depends – Chief Minister should be about £120k, Ministers about £90k, and £30k for ‘bankbenchers’.
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They should be paid on a value for money basis. So in most cases Nothing.
Firstly, there are too many of them.
Secondly, they aren’t qualified (half the time) to do the job.
Thirdly, due to the system, we (the public/taxpayer) don’t actually even get to vote for them (in most cases) because they are in parishes we (the public/taxpayer) are not.
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A BIG FAT ZERO!
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Halve the number of members and double the pay to hopefully get a bit of business talent.
We have gone long enough trying to manage this Island on the cheap and as result we have a weak and incompetent Government who have allowed the Civil Service to dominate polices to the decrement of the people. We pay our ministers £43k to direct and take responsibility and blame for the incompetence of Civil servants earning £250k, golden pension and if they can’t do the job half million pound bonuses.
We need politicians strong enough to take back control and I for one would rather pay the going rate for competence than continue with this saga of allowing Civil Servants pay themselves higher and higher salaries from my tax monies.
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Not as much as recently retired civil servants hopefully otherwise we will be “skint”
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It’s not about how much they are paid, more about whether they earn their salary. I don’t think it’s fair that Ministers get paid the same as back benchers because it’s easy to criticise, but harder to make a workable solution.
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Peanuts and free parking…
Free milk while they are it…
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If it was performance related they would get nothing.
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Any chance of subtracting £3000 for every pre-election promise that does not happen or gets broken ? Does anyone really think our politicians will even listen to their own ‘Review Body’ or anyone else ? The figure that they get now should be linked to individual productivity.
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no more than it is now.
infact it should be the average wage of a employed by a company ( not self employed) carpenter or such trade .
then some would come to understand how some of us mere mortals , strive to get along.
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the panel who review this wage to members , is in my eye unsuitable.
go on mr vibert get the table out in the street and ask the public .
the answer may be one that a few care not to here .
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A PAY FREEZE FOR THEM, LIKE EVERY BODY ELSE
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I think we should promise them a big fat pay rise and then get rid of them before they have a chance to collect the first wage, then they would know what it is like expect one thing and get the exact opposite!
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Real Truthseeker: “Depends – Chief Minister should be about £120k, Ministers about £90k, and £30k for ‘bankbenchers’.” – you would say this of course!
In an already dodgy system that doesn’t sound right! Some backbenchers work harder than ministers, only for their research to be ignored by those with hidden agendas, those with friends who profit from decisions, etc. The title ‘chief minister’ or ‘minister’ is not currently a sign of ability, work load, honesty, in fact sometimes quite the opposite, so why should they be paid more.
They should all be paid well, but should have to give up any conflicting interests. Just a matter of voting the right people in.
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Spring Heeled Jack
‘If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys’
A hackneyed, initially amusing, witticism isn’t automatically a fact, Jack.
It could be argued that there is plenty of monkey business going on in Jersey, conducted by many who are paid considerably more than peanuts.
It is, of course, beneficial to those who are paid cashew nuts to have people trotting out the peanuts = monkeys line but where is the evidence (in relation to the States)that pay begets performance rather than the other way round?
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Mininum wage.
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HELL, a pay rise !!if they were employed anywhere else, they woudn’t have a job.Not with the complete mess they are making.I certainly wouldn’t employ them.What are they qualify to do ?? Not a lot. They don’t deserve the money WE are paying them so the answer is NO RISE !! Sack the lot.
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Sanity – sadly you have got it around the wrong way.
We have people earning the wage of lower middle management (Senators on £43k) telling experienced business professionals who can command large salaries what to do. Even though they have agreed to pay them said large salaries for THEIR expertise.
They then ‘resign’ and get paid huge sums.
Have you ever wondered why someone who is allegedy resigning gets a big pay-off.
Think about it!
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They should be means tested, if they don’t need it they should not get any pay.
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Just freeze their pay for two years.
(lead by example)
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They should be paid the minimum wage see how they cope on that like so many others have too!No free parking and no ipad.
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Real Truthseeker (8) Depends – ?
According to your past posts people should be paid, as in business, what they are worth. The problem is that in business the current CoM would have faced an Extraordinary General Meeting and been sent packing.
The politically aware know the answer; ‘Freeze the pay of all States of Jersey members until they sort out the mess they have got themselves into.’. The last thing we need is advice from half wits like yourself! The bleating of a lost sheep from down under.
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C Le Verdic (22) ‘If you pay peanuts
Love your rational! We have too many monkeys in political zoo called Jersey.
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Why ask us? They don’t listen anyway.
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Set an example to the rest of the island who are suffering in times of recession.
Pay freeze for one year and reassess next year.
Or I could be very cynical and think that they are trying to get as much money as they can out of the “system” before the elections when their seats start to look “dodgy”.
And “dodgy” some of them are looking too.
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Firstly, being a States member should not be a full time job. It never used to be, and the fact that GST and school milk get debaed endlessly shows that the problem is that the States spend too much time debating things, not too little.
Secondly, representing the Island is a priviledge and people should make a sacrafice t do so.
So I would pay people a maximum of £30k a year but also require that no person should receive more that 75% of their most recent wage.
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Pay peanuts and we could have a few monkeys running the island, things should start to look up
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Hang on lets get a U.k Consultant to tell us should cost a few pounds but at least we should get it right
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The removal of any sort of pay, apart from expenses, would immediately improve the quality of members by 110%
There are so many current menbers who would be totally unemployable in the private sector, and they should go. All you will hear from now till October, is no to GST, more money for pensioners and other populist nonsense, in order that they can retain their inflated pay packets . Off with their heads, bring in people who know about running a buisness.
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As far as the States is concerned, the quality of our government has not improved since we started paying States members. Therefore we should stop paying them and go back to the old system. If paying extra doesn’t result in an improvement in service, you stop paying extra. Simple as that.
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Anybody that think States Members should be paid nothing (or not a lot) is a fool plain and simple.
You get what you pay for, and if we don’t pay States members we will end up with people who are already rich and have no enthusiasm for the job, only there to serve their own business interests which they will retain instead of quitting to serve the people of Jersey.
What we should do is half the number of States Members, and pay them much better, encourage successful people to leave their businesses to serve the island of Jersey.
With low pay, no one in their right mind would ever take that sacrifice in income to serve.
Think it through for goodness sake people…
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“Firstly, being a States member should not be a full time job. It never used to be, and the fact that GST and school milk get debated endlessly shows that the problem is that the States spend too much time debating things, not too little.”
Endlessly debating things is part of States tradition.
The greatest never ending debate is on the casino.
This started in 1906 when the States did not even exist in their modern form. It has survived two world wars, reform of the house, the introduction of paid members and of ministerial government and in that time the island has changed from a community dependent on mainly farming and fishing to a finance centre.
It has now comfortably exceeded it’s century and shows no sign of stopping there.
The issue of importing cattle semen went on for decades and even the incinerator managed thirteen years.
Some people just do not understand island life
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To be honest i think you should put them on the dol for a few weeks so they can really understand how there system really works.
i worked for the states and had to wait 13 weeks to recieve a penny from them. absolutely sick.
dont let them get paid. there arrogant, non supportive, dont help the public with any needs. its all about there pockets no one else just theres.
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Annual appraisals and performance related pay !
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The poor performers disapoint and do not seem like value for money to the Taxpayer…..That’s Democracy imperfect but the best we have…provided that Democracy is at the forefront of ‘Members’ tasks,which of late it has been for many on the back burner,the good ones have to suffer sitting opposite some relatively innefective civil servant who may be on 6 time what the States member is earning..and who feel untouchable because of the way the civil servants close ranks and the silo mentality kicks in,an invidious position for your representative to be in.So whilst I don’t think the ‘members’ pay should equal the top earners,it should reflect their position and the attendant responsibility,for however we moan the hours some people put in are staggering…something we don’t really see.so I would suggest 40k plus 20k productivity payment which will reward the hardworking and penalise the ‘cruisers’….should sort the wheat from the chaff…
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“I would suggest 40k plus 20k productivity payment which will reward the hardworking and penalise the ‘cruisers’”
NO NO NO!
The problem with the States is there are too many windbags who confuse noise for thought. I doubt many people work harder than Geoff Southern or Alan Breckon, but saying the same thing over and over again to the same people to the same lack of effect is the opposite of productivity.
Being hardworking is often little more than a synonym for never thinking before organizing the next petition. What we need in the States are more thinkers and that means people who have the brain to think
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The States and the CoM in particular are packed with business people.
The fact that they are incapable of running the island and balancing the budget seems not to discourage some people on here from calling for yet more of them or even a States made up exclusively of business people.
The fact is that Alan Breckon and Geoff Southern do not make policy.
The mess we are in is the legacy of Pierre Horsfall, Frank Walker, Terry le Sueur, Phillip Ozouf et al.
All four of those claimed to be from the island business community when seeking election.
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#29 Unfortunately Real Truthseeker honestly believes that the men in this world on seriously high salaries have proven themselves geniuses worthy of these salaries.
In contrast there is a lot of history to suggest that someone can do well academically (not all that hard really) coupled with seriously high BS’ing skills can get into a well paid industry and BS their way to the top (no doubt passing over some real brains on the way). As an example, Fred Goodwin and the cronies that were on his committee made a fundamentally simple error most likely due to their ego’s thinking “ooooh, we could control the largest bank in the world”.
Plenty of ‘lesser beings’ were absolutely certain that this would lead to catastrophe such was the schoolboy level of the error. And surprise, surprise, the catastrophe hit. An intelligent person would not let their ego overtake using their brain.
So it could be said that Goodwin (and many others like him) have BS’d, ridden on a wave of luck and haven’t actually had the intelligence there at all. Yet they are still lauded (by other idiots) as ‘geniuses’! Hopefully we can start to see these people for what they really are “men that just haven’t been found out yet”. Of course there are also those that are lauded by the business world for decades until we find out they were making their money by breaking the law all along! How many others are currently being lauded that will have been found out by 2020?
I believe many of our politicians fall into the same category. We cannot pay them more because they have proven themselves not to have the intelligence to warrant their current salaries. However, if we offer a higher salary we will probably just get people with even better BS skills and who will ride the wave for longer before we find them out.
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we should pay them a large salary as at present. After all, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys; oh, hang on a minute, this doesn’t add up…..we don’t pay peanuts and we get, er, monkeys. Sorry, I’ll just go away quietly and think about it a bit more.
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Let’s go back to no pay for States Members
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Fully agree with Spring Heeled Jack
Ditch the Deputies, retire the Constables and pay a true wage for Senators of a minimum standard
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Leah,
While it is true that not everyone on a big salary is a genius, it is equally true that if anybody in Jersey has been in employment for more than 10 years and has never had a promotion then the chances are they aren’t very good at their job. Virtually all States members – from Ozouf to Higgins to Southern and Breckon and Le Gresley and Le Marquand and Macon and Tadier how the list goes on – singularly failed to shine in private practice. And I choose those names because I know a little about each of their careers and worked with some of them.
If they have previously shown themselves incapable of running a bath it seems optimistic to believe they will be capable of running an island. They can get close though, they can ruin the island.
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Some suggest no wage for States Members, if that was the case, then how would the likes of Senator Alan Breckon and a few others continue?
There are a few who do have the interests and concerns of the people at heart, not many but they have to be paid a liveable wage.
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Leah Holmes – have you any acts for your verbal diarhhoea? Typical response to claim one thing, but you haven;t stated a single fact. At least I substantiate my comments with scientific facts.
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“There are a few who do have the interests and concerns of the people at heart, not many but they have to be paid a liveable wage.”
The point is that they shouldn’t get a pay rise for being a states member. Having the interests and concerns of the people is sentimental claptrap. What matters is whether they have the intellectual ability to translate that concern into practical policies that address those concerns. People like Breckon mean well, but simply don’t have the wherewithal to understand complex issues or manage big budgets. Of course, meaning well and being incompetent is better than not meaning well and being incompetent (we’ve had a few of those over the years), but its hardly ideal.
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#51 And you don’t think Fred Goodwin is a shining example?
Mind you, you probably think the guy’s a fantastic businessman!
I’ve found that in the past when you substantiate comments with scientific fact people like you come on and moan about it asking for experience, if you comment from experience people like you come on asking for scientific fact. Indeed, it seems that only you have the right to say exactly what you want
Donald, I see no issue with the way you choose because you have some inside information on these guys. I just won’t vote solely on the fact that someone appears to be successful in business because they may well be about to get found out.
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Paying states members nothing would perpetuate the problems of oligarchy as only those who had made or inherited a fortune could afford to sit without the responsibility of work. Lets be realistic a secretary on 15k working 12 hours days will not be able to come home, run a house and do politics at the same time. Running an Island takes time, something normal people dont have as they are too busy working to scrape together rent money and pay food bills. The states members should be paid the average workers wage, I believe in is around 18k plus governmental expenses. That way they could afford to live, buy food and still be able to devote full time to running the island.
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Nothing until they have proved that their policies work and they have ‘done’ the job simple.
If they truly care about the Island like they say they do and really are passionate about representing Islanders they should be merited when a real achievement has been made. And they should all be vetted PROPERLY, way too much conflict of interest in my opinion with OUR money!!!!!!
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Sorry to add to the above, I maybe didn’t clarify.
We seem to spend all this money paying them but I would like to know why after 60 years plus still no proper law to protect private rental tenants, no legal minimum requirements for the rental market and no real protection for the tenant. But the States issue us with a form with the housing law written all over it but do not either have the balls or inclination to protect the consumer. The old Jersey ‘leases are still doing their rounds and are horrific. (Who vets landlords exactly?)
No immigration laws to protect Islanders, ie we really DO NOT KNOW who is entering our Island. Look at the murders, (yes there was one in First Tower a poor nurse) the theft, the attacks and the drug culture.
And lastly no honest representation for locals who are less fortunate, I was quite shocked at how everyone l know of living in dire states housing and who work hard are still living in the same places and all the new builds are being dished out willy nilly to those who have only just got qualified or housed through ‘hardship” cases. There are plenty of locals who are in ten times worse a position who wont even get a look in!!
We are fed up, a lot of locals feel powerless as they really do not get listened to. Everyone is shouting over one another and most of the time it is everyone else who has been here five minutes thinking their opinion is more worthy ?? How can that be? does it not take experience of a place and culture and to liaise on ALL levels to merit that judgement?
I must make a point of visiting the UK, finding the most populated part, ensure that I really do not know enough first though and tell all the people who live there ‘how it is’ that would go down really well wouldn’t it??? Sound familiar??
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@ bbpuking.. I truly love your comments.. nail on the head.
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If we have a government of accountability & inclusion, with proper checks & balances, then a decent salary would not seem out of place, such as £50,000+.
Those politicians who I know personally (and respect/admire) work hard and are almost always available to their constituents and others. The trouble is, they only have a marginal powerbase in Jersey as hardly any moderates ever reach Ministerial offices.
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Interesting that most of the comments are along the lines that somebody else should do the job for a lot less or even nothing at all. None have said that they are prepared to give up their lives to “serve” the community. Isn’t this the problem?
Everybody seems to agree on the fact that there are currently too few potential candidates of any merit coming forward for election so it should not therefore take a rocket scientist to work out that unless we change our attitude we are going to get the same again for another 4 years. From the comments on this blog it is difficult to work out whether Jersey people are too greedy or just too stupid and as a result every 4 years re-elect the government they deserve.
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We can’t go back to no pay for states members. If you have this, then the only people you’ll get in the States will be those who don’t need to work – i.e. the super-wealthy who are far more likely to want to keep taxing the middle earner plebs than hit their own pockets.
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Our new and transparent government – and all those civil servants earning over 100k – should be forced by law to detail their Interests, Associations with professional bodies, directorships and memberships of Societies e.g. Freemasons.
How many of them have got golden handshakes and superior contracts because of who and what they know?
About time we were told who is whispering and in cahoots with whom behind the scenes.
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Problem is the salary is not enough to attract anyone with brains, only those that have other income or are retired – therefore they serve themselves.
I am not saying we want ‘professional’ politicians but we certainly want to get rid of the current amateur bunch:
“Y’all know me. Know how I earn a livin’. I’ll catch this bird for you, but it ain’t gonna be easy. Bad fish. Not like going down the pond chasin’ bluegills and tommycods. This shark, swallow you whole. Little shakin’, little tenderizin’, an’ down you go. And we gotta do it quick, that’ll bring back your tourists, put all your businesses on a payin’ basis. But it’s not gonna be pleasant. I value my neck a lot more than three thousand bucks, chief. I’ll find him for three, but I’ll catch him, and kill him, for ten. But you’ve gotta make up your minds. If you want to stay alive, then ante up. If you want to play it cheap, be on welfare the whole winter. I don’t want no volunteers, I don’t want no mates, there’s just too many captains on this island. $10,000 for me by myself. For that you get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing”
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I would love to stand for the States – really, in spite of the many nasty and small minded people who comment on this website.
For everyone who writes that politicians should be paid nothing I am aghast – apparently my failure to stand for the States simply reflects that I don’t want to help the island, don’t love it enough or simply aren’t successful enough – if I was I wouldn’t need the money now would I!
This is hogwash – I am very well qualified, lots of experience and am a senior manager in business in this island but it is plainly ridiculous to expect me to work for nothing or a notional sum – I have to feed and clothe my kids just like the next person.
Go back to the days of unpaid States members and you will get farmers, lawyers, housewives and the rich and retired – none to represent the bulk of ordinary folk.
I would put it more strongly than the “pay peanuts…” anology – pay peanuts and get corruption and politicians who can rightly say they are not paid to put in 40 hours a week.
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And then the shark ate him and they didn’t have to pay him….
Should feed the current Chamber of Muppetts to the sharks….
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