Tougher standards on room sizes of new flats
Thursday 23rd June 2011, 2:56PM BST.
Deputy John Le Fondré
NEW flats will have to meet tough standards on room sizes and sound insulation after States Members voted to change planning rules.
The States yesterday approved amendments to the Island Plan from Deputy John Le Fondré which will allow the Planning department to demand bigger rooms and better sound insulation in all new flats.
He said that the changes were crucial if the States was going to stick with the policy of putting new developments in town and not the country.
The Deputy said that Islanders were already living in cramped conditions in town, and the living standards of St Helier residents had to be protected.
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About time too. What about minimum outside and green space per development?
Sick of seeing tarmac, paving and concrete – one of the key reasons we are seeing more flooding.
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What a lot of nonsense. Most folk are removing the gardens from the front of their houses to make way for tarmac/parking spaces. Folk just love town, toll-tax please on commuters from the country parishes.
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I am happy to offer my advice without consultation charges! A bedroom (even a single one) should have room for the bed itself so that a person can actually get in and out of it and I fully understand dining rooms/areas are a thing of the past in Jersey but some space in the living room to house a table and chairs would be good.
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All I have to say on this matter is Dandara. They have been allowed to build rooms that you can barely swing a cat in, so if they are allowed to do then people will follow suit.
But they do seem to be able to build wherever they like & whatever they like, no names mentioned but we know who he is.
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Larger rooms = more expensive and fewer flats.
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Good job
I used to live in a flat where the walls were so thin, I could hear the couple in the flat above having sex.
That didn’t bother me, it was his Captain Caveman impressions that got on my nerves
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2 Toasted
….and a larger “toll-tax” for any townies venturing out of St Helier??
Unless you have been living on another planet for some time, you’ll probably realise that most taxpayers actually reside outside of St Helier!
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do you meen a bedroom that can fit in a king size bed plus a good wardrobe and some draws.
julie was that access to both sides of the bed ?
and yes space for four / 6 to sit around a table and have some food, if people can manage to splash out.
some will miss the barney next door going on , can be better than the telly if better sound proofing.
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Small money (comment 8)Don’t let’s get too ambitious! I was picturing a small bed with access from just one side (people can climb over each other be fair!)And perhaps a fold-up table for two rather than the dinner on lap scenario which seems the norm nowadays.As for hearing the barney next door I have it on good authority that in some of Jerseys “apartment” blocks you can hear much more than that through the paper thin walls!!
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Congratulations to Beaumont, for one of the funniest posts I’ve seen on here for ages.
Well done, that made my day
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The worrying wording in the above article is “which will ALLOW the Planning department to demand bigger rooms and better sound insulation in all new flats”
They will be able to …. but will they? I doubt it. They’ll bow to the pressure of the greedy developers – especially Dandara.
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“the living standards of St Helier residents had to be protected”
I would say : has to be improved
You can’t park your car if you live in town but you need to leave space for those who aren’t.
They should tax you if you own more than 2 cars.
And get more resident parking
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julie , is there any plans for live sound broadcast via the internet( better than the archers )
or will it be nighttime sqwealing .com
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Oh my word! Somebody is finally speaking sense. Who would ever think that the walls separating two lots of strangers would need to be made of more than 90gsm paper?
Nor do the States seem to have any idea that mental wellbeing is worsened when people live in cramped conditions (no matter how luxurious they look or expensive they are).
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Well the end result of this and the affordable housing pecentage on new developements will be that land values (traditionally owned by local people) will go down, 2 bed flats will become one bed flats and the prices of those one bed flats will go up, and because they will be bigger than whats on the market (initially anyway) they will sell.
The developer (Regardless of whether it is “D” or not is still going to want his margin,. think about this, if you went to the bank and said I would like to borrow a million pounds but am not sure when I can pay it back as I have to sell all of the flats I am goingto build with your money first, what interest rate would you be charged??
There is a large risk with any development (Ask the many locals who turned developer and lost a fortune) so they make sure there is a good margin in it to start with!, so margin fixed, build cost pretty much fixed that leaves land value and sales value, so they will offer less for the land and charge more for the “Bigger” apartments!
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I think it’s about time someone told all you ‘non-wealthy-town-dwellers’ the terrible truth about large apartments – “flats” – to you.
The fact is, the larger the apartment, the more space you have, therefore:
- the more furniture you need to fill it (and, you know how expensive furniture is, unless you buy that grotty IKEA stuff…ew ew ew);
- the more you have to dust and clean (and, you’ll have to do it for yourselves, seeing as you can’t afford a housekeeper…or anything else for that matter);
- the more you need to spend on heating (which means no Sunday joint…of any kind);
- the more chance you have of losing things (and, as you already have so little, you can’t afford to lose anything).
On the contrary, the smaller the apartment, the less space you have, therefore:
- the less furniture you need to fill it and the less chance you have of banging into things when you are drunk (just think of it, you’ll fall in the door and straight onto the bed…”cute”);
- the less you need to spend on keeping warm (I mean, when you are all huddled together, you will be kept warm by each other’s body heat…”cosy”);
- the less you have to dust and clean (so, you’ll have more time to go to the pub…”life enriching”);
- the less chance you have of losing things (furthermore, you’ll be able to see everything you own without getting out of your chairs…”priceless”).
Oh, and we must not forget that extra-thin walls provide optimal heat-transfer thus cutting heating bills even futher. And, moreover, excellent sound-transfer, which means you can hear all the body sounds and raging battles going on next door without having to put a glass to the wall!
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7. Parktown Prawn I repeat, a toll-tax is required for those folk commuting into town on a daily basis who permanent residents in St. Mary, St. Peter & St. Ouen.
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Toasted
Don’t be so ridiculous…this is a tiny island 9 x 5 and these commuters NEED to come into town to WORK and help pay taxes for the ISLAND.
How many people on benefits live outside of St Helier I wonder….not many I should guess…..so you could argue that we are all paying a “toll-tax” already to support those living in our capital!!
Besides, if you charge those living outside St Helier to go about their own business then it’s only fair the reverse happens too
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#17 Utter idiocy! What you really need to do is go to the States and tell them to stop ensuring that the vast majority of jobs are located in St Helier. Spread the workplaces around the island so everyone can have a decent workplace near their home (if they so desire). There is no way to cut traffic other than to have people working nearer where they live. BUT, the States clearly don’t want people living near their work, they want everyone having to drive into town, they then have a captive audience to pay taxes on fuel and, no doubt someday, a congestion charge
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18. Parktown Prawn personally, I’ve never had a problem parking in the countryside. The fact remains that town residents are having their parking rights penalised by countryside folk commuting into town for work & parking in front of properties owned by town folk.
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19. Leah I see the sense in your logic. However, the fact remains that a toll tax is required for those commuting into St Helier and using our utilities on a daily basis.
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20 Toasted
Not everybody does this…..personally, I already have to pay over £100 per month for the privilege of parking, then there is petrol, maintenance and insurance.
I think I pay enough already thank you…..especially when the only reason I go to town nowadays is to WORK.
If the bus service was more frequent around my area then I would happily save money and use it……you would have thought the absolute centre of the island would have a regular service hey?
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“Not everybody does this…..personally, I already have to pay over £100 per month for the privilege of parking, then there is petrol, maintenance and insurance.”
That should not be a problem if you are a big brain earning six or even seven figures in the Filing Industry.
You will be paying more in Social Security than petrol, insurance and parking together!
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Parktown 22. Your monthly parking is a bargain, most folk pay well in excess of 100 pm to park in town and more than that for 24/7 access.
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Yes Pip,
However, contrary to popular belief, not everyone in finance earns 6-7 figures sums!
Toasted
I must be lucky – this is 24/7 secure parking.
Still doesn’t justify the suggestion of a toll-tax to further penalise the working taxpayer though does it?
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Beaumont,
Did the guy do the Captain Caveman impressions while having sex?
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Too little,too late. Dandara have already set the “standard” for the size of flats.They have dictated what the minimun “size” should and will be.Just who will have the nerve to challenge thier dominance.I can see into the future when we all have to bow to our chief minister..Senator Martin Clancy. God help us……..
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so what about the many ones that have been built over the past few years by an outside company that the states allowed in not mentioning any names . they have taken over jersey with still many still left empty. will they have to be revisited & sorted out?
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Parktown 25. Many hard working tax payers residing in town, are denied the right to park anywhere remote close to their own house. A toll-tax for commuters from the countryside would balance the unfairness.
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Ha Ha I know what you mean Beaumont, I live in a states rental flat & can hear the people above & opposite having a pee! i don’t wan’t to be that intimate with my neighbours!
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Toasted
That’s a shame….maybe they can pay for the same parking as us commuters….or just buy/rent a property with parking!
You can’t have it both ways!
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It’s a shame that countryside folk do not have the privelege of living in town. So 100 per month for you to park in town and use St Helier’s facilities 24/7 is too cheap and must increase.
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Can we have a troll tax for those endlessly posting on this website.
RT – better get a season ticket.
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The standards for new build meet and generally exceed the UK with regard to sound transmission; and all new developments have to be tested prior to occupation.
Building a bigger apartment will not improve the ‘sound proofing’ as it is erronously called.
If you want a sound proof wall / floor start using very thick concrete walls instead of blocks.
Remember these ideas all come at a cost – and you can be sure the developer will not cut his margin and neither will the land owner sell at a reduced price. Result less land available for development = demand exceeding supply = higher prices.
Face facts people – there are a lot of properties for sale at the moment, but you do not see prices being drastically reduced.
Developers are turning to the rental market which is growing as people simply cannot afford to raise the deposits demanded by the banks and private individuals are simply not selling at a reduced price, but ‘hanging out’ for their best offer; eventually taking thier properties off the market and staying put.
The market is stagnating.
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Toasted
Get a grip!
I have never entertained such a ridiculous argument in all my time…..people who live outside of St Helier also have to pay extra for parking near their properties too you know.
The facilities I use in St Helier are the facilities I PAY for with my taxes…..so jog on!
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@19 Utter idiocy…
We do not want development out of town, therefore all the jobs will be in town.
This is Jersey not Guernsey we want green space.
They should stop allowing commercial developments out of town entirely.
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Furthermore…you CHOOSE to live in town so deal with it…..or move to the countryside.
No brainer!!
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33. that would fill the black hole in one fell swoop! Good idea I like it.
As for housing standards they have been on the way down since the 1970′s from what I can see. I would never buy a brand new new house as I would be worried that I would need a new mortgage to rebuild it in 40-50 years time. An old build can last 300-500 years if properly maintained. These are a much better investment long term.
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#21 From a point of view of the cost to the Parish I agree with you, but then the States should handle any extra cost so it is spread across the whole island and not just St Helier (the policing of drunks waiting on taxis etc). Just about everyone has some need to come into town (even those that don’t work here), that’s just life.
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“Face facts people – there are a lot of properties for sale at the moment, but you do not see prices being drastically reduced.
Developers are turning to the rental market which is growing as people simply cannot afford to raise the deposits demanded by the banks and private individuals are simply not selling at a reduced price, but ‘hanging out’ for their best offer; eventually taking thier properties off the market and staying put.
The market is stagnating.”
It is certainly stagnating and lenders are allowing borrowers who cannot meet their payments to move to interest only.
While interest rates are affordable, the borrower gets to stay in their home, the bank keeps the mortgage on their books as performing and we avoid the dreaded repossessions that would send the housing market into a tail spin.
Increase interest rates to a reasonable level of 6% and it will look a lot more questionable.
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Parktown 35. St Helier pays higher rates than any other parish. Therefore you are on quite a freebie when you come into town.
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Why don’t they dig a massive hole to build a underground car-park for St Helier Resident and one for commuters.
Better money spend than steam clocks and incinerator.
Tax heavily families with more than 2 cars.
They might as well burn or take down all the buildings which are in poor conditions to rebuild at higher standard than Dandara would.
And yes build offices outside town with a sea view. Would be nice for some.
I leave in town, 5 minutes from work and do not own a car. I love it and feel sorry for those waisting 2 hours of their life everyday in traffic.
i only wish I could have a parking space.
Accommodation are most of the time a disgrace (specially the no qualified). And I am surprise that there is nobody to check the poor condition of some rentals. Shocking, disgraceful and offending.
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Toasted
So what? Take that up with your parish.
I do not get my refuse collected in St Helier….I pay my own parish to do that…..along with street lights etc.
Believe me there is no “freebie” going into town…..everything costs…..maybe you’d like to tax the St Helier air we breathe too ??
Judging by your insistance I don’t suppose you ever venture outside of the capital much……you should try it…..there is a whole wide island out there
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Shut up and Pay
‘Why don’t they dig a massive hole to build a underground car-park for St Helier Resident and one for commuters’
As I have proposed many times before, why not rebuild the town on concrete pillars providing massive parking space and at the same time raising the sreets to be level with La Pouquelaye, Highlands/Bagatelle and Westmount?
Doing away with hills at Queen’s Road, St Saviour’s Road and Wellington Road would be a vast improvement as well as reducing pollution.
My idea has obviously not come to the notice of the States. No doubt, at some future time they will pay big money to consultants to hear what I have told them at no cost.
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Parktown 43. Whatever .. I’m bored with your view.
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haha Toasted
Likewise, I take it you realise the error of your ways now
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