2

Shut up and Pay

It is about time.

I can see all the Landlords crying now.
They are going to spend some cash to renovate all their disgusting accommodations in order to get the cash flowing again.

No more expensive damp rabbit hutch hopefully.

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4

Overpopulated

We locals wanted the population frozen years ago, long before it got to 100,000 but did they listen?

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6

nigel

There will probably be a lot of frozen older people next winter after the forthcoming autumn pension rise.
(Did he mean peg the current population level?).

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8

Blade

Senator Ozouf clearly states on his website that the population is 100,000 people.

The last census showed it was about 92,000.

Senator Le Sueur says that only the states figure is of 1% of the working population is being allowed. At the moment about 325 a year (its much more than that actually) some say over 600.

No wonder we are in such a mess. Nobody can add up! One official figure says one thing and Senator Ozouf who would be in the know says a figure of 8000 more than the COM line of 325.

Question is who’s lying?

I believe Senator Ozouf. Because as we all know when we are trying to get to work in the morning there are 3 times as many cars on the road. The COM has failed the people of Jersey with its spin and massaging of figures. It is essential to stop the population growth as it is the basis of all that’s wrong financially with Jersey.

This my friend’s is never going to happen. More people equal more profit.

The gravy train of high rent subsidised by the taxpayer is not going to stop.

Ex states members sitting on the boards of utility companies is never going to stop with the huge profits they make. People generate more of everything. Everybody needs to eat which is why GST is never coming off food or utility bills. Increasing the population is the only way Ozouf and the COM can balance the books in the future.

The next thing to happen is the continued lowering of housing qualifications to get rid of the glut of houses and flats on the market. This will be done under the name of “equality and fairness” with a nice little “home buy” scheme subsidised with taxpayers money to pay for them.

Watch this space

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10

Slawek

So, Deputy Wimberley, we all know how YOU will benefit from calling for immigration freeze. Few ballots more, and election time is closer and closer.

What we don’t know is how exactly Jersey economy will benefit from freezing immigration. Would you please explain ? Can you ?

Net immigration of +640 per year compared to 100k population, or even 90k population is nothing. Nothing. Do you want us to believe that this is the source of 100m hole in the budget ?

Or maybe it is about too generous spending ? Maybe it is about buying votes in return of promises of better social security ?

Address people living on benefits for years – cut benefits, introduce a rule with limiting benefit eligibility to certain amount of time – two, three, maybe 5 years with later years on VERY reduced rates. Stop giving away or subsidising HOMES as social security accommodation. Stop spending on stupid plans like ‘affordable housing’ which only keep home prices up. Will you ? Are you brave enough to propose something like that ? This WILL help Jersey and Jersey’s economy. Unfortunately this will not help you Deputy Wimberley.

Jersey can only dream of politicians truly serving ALL the community..

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12

Zoro

Many will squalk Wimbo…but you are right the runaway train that is Ozoufs policies are crippling the place….time out…pause for thought .re group and take a breather then proceed with a well thought through policy.

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14

C Le Verdic

Slawek
‘So, Deputy Wimberley, we all know how YOU will benefit from calling for immigration freeze. Few ballots more, and election time is closer and closer’

He could be making a big mistake, Slawek.

Jersey has so many immigrants, in the broadest sense, that, firstly, many voters will feel offended and, secondly, many voters will not agree with him as they would happily encourage more of their own to the island of plenty.

I dare say that there are also more than a few hypocrites who, having got themselves in, want to pull up the drawbridge behind them. Perhaps he will garner their votes?

Ironically, Wimberley is an immigrant. He came here as a child of a high flying immigrant public servant!

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16

Kaspar Wimberley

Slawek: “So, Deputy Wimberley, we all know how YOU will benefit from calling for immigration freeze. Few ballots more, and election time is closer and closer.”

Have to defend my father here! This stance on population is consistent with his election stance last time around, and everything he has said in between. Check website, voting records and speeches. As they are debating the island plan, it will obviously come into focus again.

Slawek: “What we don’t know is how exactly Jersey economy will benefit from freezing immigration.”

The way I understand it… It isn’t about filling the hole or boosting the economy. The Jersey economy will not directly benefit, but Jersey will. Short term it could mean a sacrifice. Long term it means sustainability. Ozouf’s way, and that of many other politicians, keeps filling (and simultaneously digging) the hole by bringing in more working bodies, to keep paying for an ageing population. Etc. But the ‘problem’ only gets bigger as soon as these people get older, or if there is a downturn resulting in more unemployment. So it’s a vicious circle. And then there is also the question of what kind of Jersey you want. The infrastructure would need to be restructured to accommodate so many new people, and Jersey would look and feel very different after that.

And regarding your stance on social security etc – what do you measure things in? Lots of money or hard work = a good person? If only things were so simple! Are people who work a lot for immoral causes worth more than those who don’t work at all? Etc. Worth is very subjective. Obviously we should be aiming for a society were people work for good causes, and probably one in which many people don’t have to work as much as they do. To say we should cut or drastically reduce all benefits doesn’t take into account such complexities, or the way our society still doesn’t work the way it should and could.

I respect and admire my father as one of the least self-centered people I know. I certainly didn’t turn out the same! Regardless of whether you share his views, few people are so consistant in the states.

“Jersey can only dream of politicians truly serving ALL the community..”

No, they can vote them in.

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18

gino risoli

John,,
Jersey can only dream of politicians truly serving ALL the community..”This is a very big miss understanding. Politicians like every individual are living his life and making his decisions to suite his life and his purpose. That is how it works whether you are conscious of it or not.

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20

tracey

Surely it is just common sense in a small island that we have some sort of immigration policy? We ahve all been saying it for years and now we have local people being forced off their own island. Deputy Wimberly has had the courage to grasp the nettle. Who cares if the non Jersey people are offended? Good luck Deputy. You may be assured of my vote and, no doubt, those of thousands of Jersey men and women. Well done and thank you so much.

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22

usher

My goodness! This is brilliant and at last! Maybe now our local young people might actually have a chance in the employment and housing markets. Who is this brave white knight?

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24

Andy

Hes probably right but the Govt will brand him a racist as an excuse for their incompetence.

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26

Warren J

At first glance, this seems like a good idea, but very few immigrants arrive in Jersey to live on benefits, as it is employment opportunities that draw people here. If we wish to freeze the population, without comprimising Jersey’s ecomomy, those who fall into the following categories are going to have to be ‘encouraged’ into the workplace, the three categories being as follows :-

The retired and in receipt of an adequate pension

The finacially self sufficiet who have no reason to work, though it must be said that many in this category do charitable / voulantary work.

Thirdly, those on benefits.

Dealing with the third category is the easiest, as you simply curtail their ‘income’ stream, forcing them back into the workplace.

Return Jersey to a low tax / low benefit jurisdiction will assist in keeping a cap on the population.

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28

truthseeker

John @ 9….Eloquently put……your salient points will be wasted on some…but not all….I wonder how many of the population are actually aware of the exact effects of the points you raise on their lives…lives which are getting harder to live because of them….well said you.

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30

Sandy

14-Beaumont

I tend to agree with your opinion on UK passport holders. I’m not sure how we could justify UK taxpayers contributing to our healthcare, and then barring them from working here.

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32

Eva Braun

So, Donald ‘Mein Kampf’ Pond #25 believes the population problem can be solved by “reducing the breeding rate of the unskilled local population and by getting the workshy and unskilled to leave”.

Eugenic programmes and the forcible transfer of population are not just ‘controversial’ Donald. They are both recognised by the International Criminal Court as crimes against humanity.

A little bit too right wing I would suggest, even for our Council of Ministers.

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34

Toastedteacakes

Daniel Wimberley had little success with disputing the erection of the Havre-des-Pas incinerator. I guess he’ll have little success with this one either.

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36

Overpopulated

Bet way to reduce the population is be careful where you spend your money.

Clothes etc can be bought on the internet or whilst you are on holiday – much better choice in places like London.

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38

Irony

So, Donald ‘Mein Kampf’ Pond #25 (I have been reading too much gullible stuff, and I like to have a funny nom de plume to make it look as though I know what I’m talking about) believes the population problem can be solved by “reducing the breeding rate of the unskilled local population and by getting the workshy and unskilled to leave”. Does he? Don’t think so.

Eugenic programmes and the forcible transfer of population are not just ‘controversial’ Donald, even though he didn’t suggest that. They are both recognised by the International Criminal Court as crimes against humanity as, of course, is failing to look after one’s own populace.

A little bit too right wing I would suggest, even for our Council of Ministers.

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40

Slawek

@16 Kaspar Wimberley

Kaspar: “Have to defend my father here! This stance on population is consistent with his election stance last time around, and everything he has said in between. Check website, voting records and speeches. As they are debating the island plan, it will obviously come into focus again.”

I’m glad you responded to defend your father’s view. Any particular reason why didn’t he bother to respond in person? Not talking to immigrants perhaps? Never mind – since he is so consistent with his views he should certainly know why his proposal is better for Jersey than others. And you, as his son and long term supporter should know his views and be able to explain as well.

Kaspar: “The way I understand it… It isn’t about filling the hole or boosting the economy. The Jersey economy will not directly benefit, but Jersey will. Short term it could mean a sacrifice. Long term it means sustainability…. (el al).

Well, Jersey economy will not benefit but Jersey will. That’s very interesting.

I’ll tell you a story. It is about a Customer with malfunctioning car and a Mechanic:

Customer: My car engine seems to be not functioning as usual. It lost its power, developed problems with starting, driving uphill, etc.

Mechanic: OK, no problem. Let’s freeze its engine.

C: Freeze the engine??? Will this help?

M: Well, it will not solve engine’s problems or help the car, but it will help you.

C: ???

M: Of course. Short term it could mean a sacrifice. Long term it means sustainability. Imagine – soon you will be able to make 15 mile distance to your work place on your foot in almost no time. And there are more long-term benefits for the community as well – soon you will also be able to carry your lazy neighbour on your back to the town! Isn’t it really great solution?

Got it? Or you don’t have a car?

As for the rest – frankly speaking I don’t get what you have written about being ‘worth’ or social security ‘complexities’. Seriously. Must be my English, as I don’t expect that you, your father’s tube and long term supporter after all (well at least for last few years according to the votedaniel website), cannot give straight and simple answer to easy question:

How will freezing population help Jersey ?

Having proposing this for such a long time you father certainly should be able to explain the idea – how is he going to control it, how it will work in favour of ALL Jersey citizens.

Kaspar: “And regarding your stance on social security etc – what do you measure things in? Lots of money or hard work = a good person?”

No, it is not about being ‘worth’, I’m not measuring people in terms of money they have, as you’ve tried to put in my mouth. No. This is exactly what people like your father do. They measure people in terms of money, but the scale is ‘negative’ – less money better person deserving for help, more money – worse person deserving for punishment by higher tax rates (re progressive tax proposal by Daniel Wimberley http://votedaniel.wordpress.com/policies/fiscal-and-tax/)

The help people are receiving should not be feeding them permanently. The help they should receive in **vast majority** of cases should be to teach them how to feed themselves. They don’t want to learn – they starve.

Kaspar: “I respect and admire my father as one of the least self-centered people I know. I certainly didn’t turn out the same! Regardless of whether you share his views, few people are so consistant in the states.”

Well, I am glad you respect and admire your father. I wish my daughters will say so when they will be older and independent persons. It might be well true that your father is least self-centered. But the problem is that he is not self-centered for not-his-own money. Taxes are not private money of any politician. If they were, if taxes were funded ONLY by politicians – go ahead, feel free and spend on whatever, give whoever you like/want. But they aren’t, and they needs to be spend VERY carefully. So it would be wise to ask MAJORITY funding taxes how to spend them, not necessarily demand more and more for hopeless left-wing projects.

“Jersey can only dream of politicians truly serving ALL the community..”

Kaspar: “No, they can vote them in.”

Seriously ? I cannot see any sharing my views….

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42

Pip Clement

“Bet way to reduce the population is be careful where you spend your money.

Clothes etc can be bought on the internet or whilst you are on holiday – much better choice in places like London.”

I am doing my best in this regard.
I had a Jersey stockbroker, local personal and business bank accounts and a wealth manager.
I have moved all of them offshore and they are more efficient and cheaper!
I also use a St Malo based English solicitor who offers a better service at less than a third of the price of the Jersey firms.

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44

Tom and Barbra

I have browsed through most of the comments here and can see the usual disgruntled comments, the lack of enthusiasm fuelled by no more than empty promises that this is just a rouse to gain popularity, but there are also the statisticians that believe we need to take a check on reality and face up to the fact that the human race is increasing at an alarming rate and if we are to stay in the game we need to make some sacrifices.

I came here about 10 years ago when the population was teetering around the 85,000 mark in that time I have seen an awful lot of buildings going up, hotels and homesteads converted to provide yet more accommodation, traffic queues grow, roads deteriorate, hospital waiting lists increase, and I admit not helped by the recession – job vacancies disappear. These are key indicators that the islands infrastructure is starting to buckle due to ever increasing demands. Sad it may sound but because more and more of us want that little bit of ‘Jersey’ our exports are starting to dwindle– tourist don’t want to be confronted with miles of traffic whilst we have land owners that are not being confronted with restrictions if they want to sell their land for a premium to developers rather than grow produce and rear cattle, basically speaking we are bleeding the place dry.

So how do we improve things, well, we obviously need to seriously reduce the population intake and we need to start investing in Jersey’s future i.e. making thinks a bit more conditional and less attractive unless the commitment is long term. Reducing ‘buy to lets’, stopping J Cats seeking shared transfers as soon as they arrive (10 years min), on leaving the island property ownership remaining in Jersey’s hands, completely stopping development on agricultural land, more redevelopment of current town sites, investing more in reclaiming land, Vehicle M.O.T, 2 year max for imported used cars (same as Cyprus). Increased cycle networks on all main roads (single track roads to improve traffic calming measures – Holland). And last of all building a bridge-tunnel to further easy accommodation and import/ export routes to the rest of Europe. I would love to see visions of a offshore metropolis with stunning architecture surrounded by a clean and pleasant land not a grotty sprawling cheaply built suburbia which Jersey is fast becoming.

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46

Slawek

@45 Shire horse
“We couldn’t be bothered to read your pompous and long wided post in extenso, but we did gather that i…”

I haven’t launch personal debate, I am not against Deputy David Wimberley as a person, but I have contrary views on some subjects, which I have expressed. Well, but how can you know this if you couldn’t be bothered to read my post.

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48

nigel pearce

To all those who don’t think Jersey could survive without imported specialists.
The indigenous population are actually quite intelligent but have been deprived of opportunities to do jobs that have been gifted to non-locals. I believe that more oppportunities and training should be given to local people to enable them to do these jobs. Before the idea arose that Jerseymen and women were incapable, we managed very well, more so than since we have had foreign ideals imposed upon us (e.g. changes to the benefits system plus the overmanning of the civil service etc.).
Given the chance, the local population would make the grade, but they need to be given the chance.

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50

Boo Boo

Work Permits must be essential.
There are far too many people now living on this tiny island. It’s not just the people coming to live here from wherever, they are having children here, (so they are born having qualies) and bringing with them there families and friends from there original homes too.
Us local people cannot moan too much about this however when our Government are incouraging more people to come. A friend of mine recently went away to Portugal on holiday and said there were posters up from the Jersey Tourism/ Government inviting workers to come and live in Jersey, describing it as a home from home, a little portugal.
You can’t blame people for taking a money making opportunity when we are practically begging more people to come to Jersey. Can we?

Local folk are being classed as racist, simply for trying to hold onto our culture. Beans are slowly becoming a dying breed.

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52

Slowit

I think someone needs to look up the words “in extenso” before accusing others of not reading a post.

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54

Mac

It will not happen.

The Housing and RoU Laws are as full of holes as a Swiss cheese. The so-say replacement laws address none of these holes – but then with the amateurs, chancers and downright crooks that Jersey elects to its States, what else would you expect?

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56

Leah Holmes

#23 Well they do try to keep people here, you can often get to the rock and then back to the UK cheaper than you doing the trip the other way around.

#53 Depends if the person was being racist or defending their island (don’t know to which post you are referring). The two are very different indeed and you can ‘defend your island’ without ever being racist, that said, some people who claim to be defending their island are just being racist. I’m sure even some of the young generation think they would love an ‘all-Jersey’ Jersey, but then they probably forget they would see a rise in developmental deformities, learning disabilities etc among their population.

Still, talking about freezing the population isn’t racist (by itself) and it must be an insult to genuine victims of racism when people make light of it in such a way. IF someone were to suggest kicking all immigrants out then that would be, at least, xenophobic and possibly racist in some instances. IF they were to specify nationalities or races of those immigrants that were allowed in, while others weren’t, then again that would be xenophobic (and/or racist). Putting a temporary freeze on the population may give the States time to actually take stock and think through the island’s long-term needs, currently the island seems to be running away on its own path and they’re playing catch-up!

People using the word in the entirely wrong way just belittles the problem of genuine racism, it’s not hard to look up a dictionary. The subject of racism is getting like the Lewis Hamilton that cried wolf!

Overpopulation is a disaster waiting to happen (no matter what race or nationality the inhabitants are), and only Jersey can manage its own population. If China closed its borders tomorrow would people be crying ‘racism’ about that?

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58

Born Warrior

The economic growth which ‘newcomers’ bring is nullified by the costs which Jersey has to/will have to pay for providing them with health facilities, social security, education for their children and, when the time comes, pensions.

Nonetheless, the majority of migrant workers do the work (for a minimum wage) that many locals do not wish to do. Paradoxically, it is exactly this much-needed group of people (low-paid migrant workers) who, if they become settlers, will create the greatest imbalance of Jersey’s financial resources (not to mention natural resources).

It is obvious that migrant workers come to Jersey because the island offers more than they can earn in their homelands. It is also obvious that a large part will stay if Jersey continues to provide them with employment and, when needed, financial support in the event of job loss/financial difficulty.

If the welfare system were less ‘enticing’, lack of employment on the island would encorage them to move elsewhere or return to their homelands (before their costs as citizens gets too high and upsets the delicate balance of the Jersey’s welfare system).

Therefore, a more ‘difficult-to-access’ benefits system – for migrant workers and locals alike – would be a matter-of-course way of controlling immigration and might even push Jersey’s army of ‘local’ freeloaders off their sofas and into the Job Centre.

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60

Vote Quint!!

hmm immigration control is only one issue that will be addresses.. basically services are stretched, infrastructrue is strained and coffers emptying because too many people live on the island – causing more services to be required, the infrastructure to cope and money to be paid.

Therefore the underlying problem can be classed (and I am going to get slated here but will use an expression anyway) as the wrong controls around the people being introduced.

If you wish to come to Jersey with your wife and 2 kids you must have – Private Health insurance for the entire family, Enough money to buy a 3 bedroom house, all children must be in fee paying schools and pay 20% tax.

Businesses may not like it but the above will: reduce the socsec burden on health, reduce burdeon on education, increase tax revenue.

A side benefit will be – more local people will be employed, better succession planning by businesses.

The States need to have a comprehensive approach to not just immigration, but health, education, taxes and infrastructure.. instead of the current piecemeal approach of each for their own.. not so much a council (as that suggest working together) but a disjoint of ministers.

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62

Mike

Jersey Employers would wish that Nigel Pierce was correct, because training and retaining local staff has to make great business sense in Jersey.

Unfortunately, he is just plain wrong. Why Jersey folk in general compare unfavourably when senior jobs are uo for grabs is a matter of debate. My personal view is that for the best part of a generation, Jersey young (and not so young) people have never had it so good, and could find excellent salaries for doing mediocre jobs in finance, particularly in Trust. Handed to them on a platter, silver plated.

A complacent generation perhaps – oh how I am generalising here, but does an easy life help a person stretch themselves?

Cue abuse.

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64

donald pond

Andy (59)
Great idea. I can see no downside. Well done!

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66

Beaumont

#59 Andy

I had a similar conversation with someone a few weeks back. I was suggesting that if I wanted to leave Jersey, I should be able to sell my quallies status for say £50,000

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68

Adrian

How can the population be capped when 350m people can come and work in Jersey if they so wish? I doubt the states even know the true population level for the island.

All it takes is the ability to stear a boat and get off at the other end and you are likely to avoid customs.

A major issue as I see it is the use of labour for minimum wage. People on minimum wage are much more likely to need social security payments to get by than those on decent incomes who will not need to make claims.

Employers are doing well out of minimum wage time to put it up to a more realistic level I think. The cost of living has after all gone through the roof these last few years and the employee shouldn’t be expected to absorb these costs.

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70

Duck Pond

The “genius” of Slawek & Donald!
How did the island manage without such talent!

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72

Leah Holmes

#71 Born Warrior, I wasn’t speaking about high earners vs low earners, I was talking about incomers compared to people born here. All things being equal (jobs, family size) etc then the incomers are no more of a drain. Still, children in fee-paying schools still have their education part-subsidised by the taxpayer (and rightly so), anything they pay for on top of that is extra and is up to them.

And you forget that low-paid workers could be better paid if it weren’t for selfish g*ts who are determined to pay everyone as little as is humanly (but not humanely) possible so they can eek out the biggest possible profit. We need the jobs that low paid workers do so I, for one, am not about to call such people a drain. If you didn’t have low-paid workers the streets would be filthy, your old people would be left to rot, people with learning disabilities would also be left to rot, your children wouldn’t have nurseries to go to, you’d have no shops open, no cafes and restaurants to go to etc. Still, I’m sure a big wealth management firm on the street corner would make it all worth it

Maybe you only think of someone’s worth in financial terms, personally I think someone who contributes to the community, obeys the law, has morals, and does an honest day’s hard work is worth far more than someone with a better salary who never does anything for the community, has a bad attitude, and isn’t entirely honest in their business dealings.

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74

who is the drain?

Born Warrior 71 – think about it. The word ‘Drain’ and who it applies to. For anybody to be rich they have to drain off the cash from somewhere. Or at east sift. Or compete. Or whatever. So you get a beautiful inbalance. And then you can complain that the others are a drain. That’s capitalism. Lovely isn’t it.

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76

Nigel Pearce

62 Mike.
You verify my point. If you give a local a chance and train them properly, then they will come upto the mark.
I can’t be wrong because I pursued that policy with what I judge to be reasonable success, (though not 100% success).
I presume you are discussing locals who only wanted to work in the cushioned environment of the finance industry rather than the cut and thrust of the outside world.

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78

small money

gods mentor , please tell me what the job is that you find so hard to fill with local born labour .
also how much a year wages and holidays and any other benifits, ie, bupa , car ?

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80

C Le Verdic

Don’t worry, Born Warrior, I didn’t read it! I am finding your current style rather bizarre and not conducive to a quick scan for interesting content. Has anyone else noticed this?

In any case, having learned my lesson after upsetting PJG’s wife, I try to highlight only amusing typos or solecisms from people who profess to be highly paid/qualified professionals.

However, having now read your post, as a fellow supporter of appropriate welfare systems, I am broadly in agreement.

Regards, Cuthbert.

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82

Shut up and Pay

To work in Jersey you need a social security card.

If Social Security stopped handing cards away to new comers when the level of unemployment is high, the situation would be resolved.

If an employer take someone on board without a social security card they should be heavily fine or bard from the Island.

I am not local and I do not wish to see more of my nationality working here if there is no space for them.

I will agree with Nigel Pearce. If you give the proper training to the right person, it will be more beneficial. Jersey is amazing for this , as they always give you a chance even if you do not have the diplomas.

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84

small money

i have no clue of the rate of exchange on the zolloty( polish money) but will hazzard a guess the one pound gets 3 zolloty.
so the minimum wage in jersey is worth more coverted in to the home countries currency.
please tell me where as a local i can go and work , to treble my pound .
.
sorry to use the polish as a example .
we have little clue as to where anyone is from these days .

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86

Born Warrior

Leah holmes

My previous post was for you.

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