Sunday trading an ‘attack on Jersey’
Tuesday 26th July 2011, 3:15PM BST.
Gerald Voisin owns one of Jersey's best-known store
THE ‘dreadful’ States decision to relax Sunday trading laws is an unprecedented attack on the Island’s way of life and culture, says the owner of one of Jersey’s biggest and best known shops.
Gerald Voisin, whose family owns Voisins department store and who was in charge of
Economic Development when a States Deputy, says that politicians have betrayed the
Island’s 8,000 shop staff who could now be forced to work.
In a scathing attack published on the letters page of today’s paper, he argues that the decision by the States to allow all but the largest shops to open will stoke inflation, lead to yet more immigration and make local retailers already fighting online competition less competitive.
Last week, States Members voted overwhelmingly in support of new Sunday trading regulations. As a result, all shops with a floor area of less than 700 sq m will be allowed to apply to the Constable of the parish in which the store is located to open on a Sunday.
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doesnt really matter the internet is open 7 days a week 24/7.. happy days!
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Maybe the question we should be asking is why shops are open in the middle of the day during the week when hardly anyone can come and buy their wares – give the employees a week day off and have them work weekends!
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Dreadful, Attack, Betrayal. Really Mr Voisin?
May I suggest that you move into the 21st Century and stop living in the past.
You have had years of ripping the public off and dictating when we can and cannot shop.
Now the worm has turned and you can’t stand the heat. Unlucky !!
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I’m guessing the Voisins is one of the shops not allowed to open and that he feels he’ll be losing custom.
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I think that the worry about more immigration is silly. There are locally unemployed people who would actually benefit from this addition work opprtunity…
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He’s just lazy wouldn’t work himself anyway but will have to pay a bit more in wages that’s why he’s moaning.It will good to do it from april to september as tourist always ask what is open on sunday.
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T’is a long time coming and not a surprise.
This will open up the can of debate worms again.
Many people rely on the lack of Sunday trading as a family day and time to spend relaxing.
Sorry sheep get in line ready to be herded into your pens !
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Agree, why do we have to ape the UK.
1) Seven day shopping destroys family life deprives the lowest paid of the one chance to plan days together.
2) It’ll kill off small one man shops who simply cannot work every day without a break.
There is no more business, it simply is spread over more days,
3) Failing to open will mean loosing one seventh of your turnover, plus increaed GST, it’s going to finish the small unique shops that make Jersey not just a clone of the UK.
4) Jersey will become a clone of the UK high street.
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Surely Gerald Voisin realises that the ruling junta in the States will not rest until they have turned Jersey into Surbiton on Sea with a smart new finance quarter in shiny glass Lego attached?
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I actually agree- terrible terrible terrible decision. If shops are open on Sunday of course people will visit them – the one thing I adore about Jersey is that I cannot visit the shops on Sunday. This makes me plan my week to fit in the chores and ensure I take Sunday off, to spend with friends and family and having a real quality of life. Opening on Sunday will make the island seem the same as the UK, and take away one of those ‘something specials’ . No more long Sunday brunches with big groups of friends as someone will want to go shopping – how sad.
And as for the people who will now have their contracts changed to force them to have working hours Monday- Sunday – it’s disgraceful
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After living in the UK for the last 9 years, working on a Sunday has been a part of life but this is not the UK and I agree with Voisin this is dreadful for the people who will have to now work on a Sunday.
If Jersey is to change with the time and that it is, we should also come to date on things like Internet speed and allowing competitors into the island.
The states want all the money they can get but don’t seem to realize that you can do that with what we have in the island, they would have to open the door to competition and in result change Tax/Gst etc.
This will have to happen otherwise trying to make money from what is here in the island will lead to a very poor Island that no one will want to live or work.
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Did somebody say sour grapes?
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Gerald Voisin may be right, but this is so minor when compared to all the other changes/institutions that have ‘attacked’ the island’s way of life, culture and, dare I add, environment. Shout about the likes of Dandara and the major car retailer that imports oversized cars to the island before you ‘go off on one’ about shops opening Mr Voisin
What car do you own/drive Mr Voisin? Does it match the post war vision of Jersey you are seeking to defend? Perhaps this is a thinly disguised gripe about having to pay staff on Sundays for the few shoppers who will be out, but which shops cannot afford to miss out on if their competitors are opening.
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It will be interesting to see if the HMV part of Voisins opens on Sunday as a shop under 700sqM.
I guess if you can outwit the Law Draftsmen and argue that you don’t have one shop but a collection of shops within a ‘Department Buidling’ you may see a change of stance from Mr Voisin as he opens all of his shops.
Strikes me that he has more thought for himself than the 8000 ‘betrayed’ shopworkers.
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I personally have never had any problem working weekends, and have done so all my adult working life ( im 48 )
When you go to France and go to St Malo, do you find all the shops / Restaurants
shut on a Sunday ? NO ! When the French come here on day trips, they must be completely shocked that a lot of shops are closed on a Sunday ! If people do not want to open or work on a Sunday, fair enough, thats their choice and should not be penalised in any way for not doing so. But, of course, should you work on a Sunday , you should be paid more per hour , or given extra time off, to reflect that you are working on a day of rest.
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Total garbage!
If Gerald Voisin is so against Sunday trading, and is so desperately concerned that people have to work, then don’t open!
Voisin will not be forced to open, however the chances of Gerald passing up an opportunity to make money will no doubt cloud his principles
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Quote: “says the owner of one of Jersey’s biggest and best known shops.”
More likely the problem is that Voisins will have to stay closed. Nobody is forced to open, but it is a free market.
Gerald Voisin you are out of step with most islanders.
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Gerald Voisin..a pillar of society..so much so he had to resign in the Irish bank W.E.B melange…now wants to cry foul,be taken seriously and I wonder how kind he will be to his own staff over this matter we watch with anticipation….
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Personnally I think its a real shame that this has been passed through, i rather enjoy the peacefulness of sunday without the urge to go shopping.
It might be fustrating at times, not having the chance to go shopping on a sunday, but you get used to it.
I’d rather see the leisure centres opening later on a saturday and sunday than see any shops opening.
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I used to work at Voisins in 1985.
I thought it was 1885!the way we had to bow and courtsey to Mr Voisin & his “assisting footmen”.
Im still trying to deal with my ordeal of working for this store twenty five years ago!
Its a shame that this lot still think we are in the days of Charles Dickins*
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It will ruin the lives of those that will be forced to work on a Sunday? Rubbish!
What about all those that work in pubs, restaurants and hotels? Police, ambulance, hospital staff, fire service etc? Do you think their lives are ruined just because they are open on a Sunday?
Get a bit of perspective! Sunday opening would benefit many more than it would ‘ruin’.
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“bumble Posted July 26, 2011 at 3:30 pm
Dreadful, Attack, Betrayal. Really Mr Voisin?
May I suggest that you move into the 21st Century and stop living in the past.”
Bumble, will you now be moving into the 21st Century and working weekends too?
Or are you one of those who is perfectly happy to mouth off because the 21st Century doesn’t currently encroach upon their own Monday-Friday working week?
I can’t help thinking that if this new law were about banks, finance offices and States offices opening on Sundays we’d be seeing overwhelming outrage from some of the more vocal Sunday trading supporters on this site about the immorality of it all……
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Retailers are struggling already and opening on Sunday will increase their costs but not their profits. I think the current system is fine, except I’d like to see garden centres and DIY shops open.
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At last some are realising the downside of 7 day a week shopping.
I hope all those bank workers, states workers and office workers who think it’s a good idea, realise that soon they will come under pressure to join the modern world and work Saturdays and Sundays.
You may not think it will happen, don’t say you haven’t been warned.
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There is always a choice, most bars,restaurants,cinema,etc are all open seven days,some the whole 365 days. Taxi drivers, bus drivers,emergency services all work on Sundays.
People expect to be able to get a taxi, go for a pint have a meal, so why not shop if they wish..if business is not there any sensible profit minded operator simply will not open. Cannot see the problem, mind you I doubt many locals will be applying if my experience to responses for vacancies is anything to go by. From what I see it is haven’t worked and don’t want to work, thank goodness for the immigrants keep on coming and keep Jersey working.
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An attack on the Island’s way of life and culture? I can think of other factors that have been more detrimental to the livelihood of Islanders!
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In the UK the Sunday opening is 10:00 until 16:00 or 11:00 until 17:00. This seems to work well and suit the needs of those who can’t normally get into town. You are not forced to open on Sunday…if the demand is not there then they won’t open.
The reason we don’t open on Sunday is the religious day of rest. This is no longer the case as a large proportion do not go to church or abide by these values. Therefore I don’t see the problem. Hotel workers, hospital, restaurant, emergency services etc etc already work at the weekends, but I do not hear anyone complaining about this.
Get a grip.
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@22 And that is it exactly, those who are in favour are those who work 9-5 Monday to Friday but want everyone else to work all hours.
There is no business case or all the businesses would want to open – remember when King Street was open 9am to 9pm daily through the summer, I wonder why that ended?
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I have a couple of questions on this,
1.Will the buses be running a normal service to accomodate these extra shoppers?
2.Will taxi drivers be forced to change their tariffs to a normal working days rates? Ditto the buses, and I presume we will have extra parish roadsweepers/binmen etc for all the extra rubbish we can expect?…Can’t see it.
Sorry that was three and a bit questions.
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I’m so pleased to hear that Voisin’s feathers have been ruffled, they think they’re Harrods.
Gerald Voisin has come across as being very arrogant and pompous. His viewpoints are not for the good of Jersey, they are governed by self-interest and self-importance
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It really looks like Voisin’s are up in arms as they won’t be able to open, but all the smaller clothes and perfume shops will.
I really don’t understand peoples anger at there being a choice for shops to open. I also reject that working them has a negative effect on people. I have worked many Sundays and preferred a day off in the week so I could actually get something done.
To all the people taking a moral stance regarding Sunday openings, give me a break this is not a moral issue it is a monetary one. I am happy to see this law based on religion (sabbath), and no other value, fade to make way for a modern Jersey, that promotes choice not obscure old laws.
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#15 Maybe not St Malo, but then it’s safe to assume it had its arm forced by British tourism because if you visit other French towns not so far from St Malo you’ll find that shops shut for a good few hours during the day on weekdays, never mind on a Sunday. The 8 to 8 supermarkets aren’t even usually open till 8pm (and that’s if they open at 8am in the first place).
My usual comment on returning from France is that I cannot believe any of the retailers make a living when their doors are never open, and yet clearly they do make a living. So whatever you think of this decision regarding Jersey, it’s got nothing to do with what happens in France because this isn’t what happens in France. Workers actually get breaks in other European countries, they’re only worked to death in the UK (and now presumably Jersey).
I can’t wait to see what happens with all the teenagers and pre-teens whose parents used to be in a position where they were forced to parent them on a Sunday, but who will now be in work to make the extra bucks. Some people will work 7 days out of 7 if their employer will let them because money matters more than family.
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#25 There is a different atmosphere in town when it is solely people going out for the evening or eating out, it has a more relaxed feeling about it. Go into town when the shops are open and relaxed certainly won’t come into the equation! Then there will be more traffic (thought we were trying to stop people driving? won’t this just create more journeys?) so you’ll get that stress of people queuing in the wrong lane for the car park, getting in your way as you are actually going to your job. In the same way that there is a more relaxed environment when the schools are off and we don’t have the ‘rush hour’, life is generally more relaxed when there is just one quieter day in the week (whatever day that is to be).
Still, this rule about the size of the shop is idiotic and smacks of inequality, either allow everyone to open or stop everyone from opening. The only shop I want to use at any time is B&Q so if the States insist on having 7-day a week stress at least have B&Q open.
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#22 I realise the “21st century” is the preferred argument for people in favour of 7 days per week shopping. Thing is, such people have rarely considered the general mental wellbeing of the population at large. To my mind any move towards increasing the length of time that town, and the roads, are busy will increase the island’s rates of depression and stress-related illnesses. Also, unless there is evidence that shops will make more profit per day (when shared across 7 days rather than 6) isn’t their the risk that shop prices will go up to cover the increase in electricity, staffing etc?
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Maybe garden outlets and B&Q as in the UK, but not the rest.Gerald Voison has raised valid points.It seems that the present States Assembly is incapable of common sense.
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Absolutely right Beantheredonethat 24/7 is the modern day reality for so many people. Old man Voisin is living in the past. As someone else said – whats the betting he forgoes his principles should his store be given the right to trade on Sunday. When that day comes (which of course it will) let’s see whether he keeps the store closed or grabs the opportunity to make a few more quid.
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“The island’s way of life and culture” was destroyed many many years ago but Gerald Voisin apparently didn’t notice.I did however and decided to leave the place of my birth and go and live somewhere less crowded where you can meet up with people in the local pub who are all enjoying life and not moaning about everything!Anyway I work in retail and happily volunteer to work Sundays if needed as it is the best day of the week.Trouble is we have too many people wanting to work Sundays so generally the youngsters get the hours.Do people really imagine that staff will be working 7 days a week?I don’t think so!A decent employer would also be sympathetic to individual needs and have staff in on Sundays who are happy to be there.No-one can be “forced” to work hours they do not want and with the army of unemployed in Jersey I cannot see shops struggling to fill positions if necessary.And finally to Nigel Pearce at comment 24 I do know of many office workers in Jersey who frequently work at weekends/bank holidays when pressure of work demands which can be very often-I did it myself when I worked in Jersey!
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What is wrong with the moaners, it’s this simple.
if you want to open then do so, if you don’t then stay closed.
If you don’t want to shop on a Sunday don’t but don’t prevent the rest of us.
What you are really saying is I don’t want to and I don’t want you to be able to either.
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No one shop is forced to open on a Sunday indeed many restaurants close on a Monday instead of a Sunday.
This is just giving more choice you can now choose to open on a Sunday and close on a Monday if you wish.
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Stop focussing on Voisins – this has massive implications for everyone. Families, individuals and communities all need ¨downtime¨. If more shops open on Sundays, we all lose out. Who really NEEDS to shop more? It’s become a hobby for those with no imagination!
Can’t believe the States got this through with so little fuss.Sundays will become just another day. We should be proud of our indiviudality but instead Jersey is just becoming a subburb of England. From an angry local
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About time ,Jersey must be amongst the last places in the world to open on a sunday , instead of st helier being dead on a sunday it might even attract a few tourists in . Are Voisins scared of maybe paying some much needed overtime to their staff
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Innocent bystander (19) i rather enjoy the peacefulness of sunday without the urge to go shopping.
Dear Innocent,
Nobody is forcing you to go shopping neither are you forced to go to the restaurant, pup or a church. You are at liberty to do what you please. If you have a shopping addiction, you need to seek help. Personally I cannot stand shopping in St Helier, on any day of the week, but that is just my foible.
Regards Mark
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@32 Regarding St Malo, the French Tourists far outnumber the British ones thanks to the Paris TGV link, and a great many others beside them !
Other French towns do open, just the mornings which is better than nothing ! I thought Jersey is trying to attract tourists to our Historic and cultural Island, not closing the door on them which is what is currently happening. This is one of the better States decisions in my opinion, if you do not want to shop then don’t, but please don’t stop others that freedom if they want to.
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To all those advocating that shops remain closed on Sunday please answer this question.
What is there actually to do on Sunday if you do not have a car and are reliant on public transport (which is very infrequent and usually busy). In St Helier not a lot.
Therefore having the option to have a walk into town might be very appealing if there were actually shops open rather than sitting on the beach or coast or even more likely sitting infront of the gogglebox.
For those who will probably harp on about my being dull, boring or lazy that is not the issue.
OPEN THE SHOPS (even if it is for 4 hours – could be 10am till 2pm)
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Australians voiced the same concerns when 7 day trading was first introduced. Now it is an accepted part of life and is taken advantage of by everyone. Living in Germany these past 4 years, where everything is closed on a Sunday I can say that it’s a real pain and that, when one town or another announces that it’s shops will be open on a particular Sunday, which happens from time to time, then the town is full to bursting with people who want to shop.
I visit Jersey at least twice a year and seeing empty shops on Mondays and Tuesdays and closed shops on Sundays could mean that moving the shop workers’ “weekends off” to Monday/Tuesday could have merit.
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We are in a modern world now I need to shop on a Sunday at the supermarket and do as many judging by how full Iceland and M&S are on a Sunday. I work all week and get shopping done on Sunday. many work on Sunday for the extra money and many have secondary jobs working on a Sunday has he thought of the job losses closing on a Sunday would amount to.I think if you look at the bigger retailers the numbers would be quite vast.
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Here we go again the states panicing and selling the Island down the river.
The Island is now so vastly over populated and over developed, isn’t it nice to have one day when things slow down abit. The shops open to long already, I thought no one had any money? the Island is rapidly becoming a joke!!
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I never realised we had an Island full of such sad people. Whose only pleasure in life is wandering around shops seven days a week,they will now have even more time to buy even more food, and get even fatter!!! Sad Sad Sad…
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The Island’s life and culture has been destroyed by mass immigration, Dandara, £300k per annum civil servants and £85 million per annum in welfare handouts.
I am not really worried about Sunday opening – apart from the tourism season and Xmas I don’t think it’s going to be a big deal.
The shops should be forced to employ the current unemployed, they can’t be worse than the current crop of shop assistants,
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My word shocking stuff. Shopping on Sunday. It has been downhill even since they allowed Jersey folk the right to dance on a Sunday. The end is near.
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How long before we are charged parking fees in town on a Sunday too? It’s already happened at the beaches.
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I used to work in the hotel trade for many years and had to work most weekends and usually had monday & tuesday off. I liked strolling into town on monday when the masses where at work and the high street wasn’t to busy etc. I now work 9-5 have other commitments in the evening and find that every saturday I am rushing around to get to the supermarket, town etc. It would be great if this could be spread over sunday as well so I didn’t have to spend all saturday rushing around. I try and avoid town at weekday lunchtimes as it is to busy. Not everyone will want to go shopping on sunday but to have the option would be nice.
In the current ecconomic climate can we really afford to turn away chances to increase profit ??
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I don’t think you can be legally forced to work Sundays if it is not in your contract. Just say no. If they say you have to leave I believe you can take you employer to tribunal. (Thats what happens in Guernsey). Do not feel pressured by other staff members into doing so, unless of course you want to, which you may.
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Has anyone walked along King Street at 9am on a Sunday?
Somebody will have to clean up all the puke, half eaten kebabs, and urine stains before the shops open!
I recommend Gerald Voisin
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Nigel
I hope all those jewellers who think it’s a good idea to have a bash at Bankers, realise that soon they will come under pressure to join the modern world and work Thursday afternoons and Sundays.
You may not think that Bankers etc don’t work well into the night and at weekends already. If you didn’t shut up shop at 5.30pm you might see that the lights are still on and car parks full of your customers.
Don’t say you haven’t been warned
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i feel that all people that comment here against sunday opening should experience working in the hospitality trade – since i can remember Sunday has just been another day and the worst for time off, because until recent years everything was closed except hotels and restaurants – we low earners begged to have Sunday as a work day (because if it wasn’t beach weather – we couldn’t afford restaurants, pubs used to close in the afternoons and our accommodation was very poor and not the place to spend quality time in)- i vaguely remember when a states member said some years ago during sunday trading argument that everyone should have sunday off so that they can go to restaurants and enjoy family time -(double standards back then?) -
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21.A, the best post on the subject, well said. Personally I would say this is down to a word little known or used in Jersey, choice, look it up Mr Voisin. As someone who grew up in a part of Northern Ireland whos local authority was controlled by never on a sunday religious zealots and who did just that, including the parks and recreation facilities, I can certainly see the merits of Sunday opening.
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As the saying goes, you can buy a pint of beer and a packet of fags on a Sunday, but you can’t buy a bible. Sunday is “special” to different people in different ways.For those who want Sundays to be “special” in the sense that nothing happens, just think through your own “special” Sunday and write down everything you do, use or see that requires someone else to be at work. You’ll be surprised. If I want to shop on a Sunday, and a goodly shopkeeper wants to sell me something, who are you to say we shouldn’t?
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I agree with the comments made by Gerald Voisin.
All this will do is increase costs in the private sector with no additional revenue. This decision is absolute madness and the public should not vote for politicians who voted for this as they have no comprehension of how business works.
It’s another sad day for Islanders and their future. We are heading in the wrong direction, with no leadership.
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Let’s be reasonable about this. As much as shopping, for complete convenience, we need many other places open such as banks, finance houses, accountants, State’s departments, parish halls, insurance offices, advice centres, offices etc.
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re 48
I like to think of myself being fairly active – but my problem is I work 9am to 6pm Monday to Saturday thus meaning I do not get the chance to visit town shops such as HMV, WH Smith etc.
It would be nice to do so rather than having to rely on Blockbuster on an evening to get a DVD etc
It would be nice to have the choice to go in on a Sunday and be able to spend for family etc
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well there is no law and NOBODY forcing ANYBODY to open on a Sunday…….so if you dont want to.well B****Y well dont……….if GV is taking an exception to this then his staff/Servants will be happy to that he wont be opening up.
i want to see MORE 24hours shops open so when I finish work at 3 in the morning I can stop off and get some groceries in or even have a coffee like anybody else when they finish work……..
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i would not want to be a day tripper from france on a sunday, its as dead as a dodo.
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55 Taxpayer
I’m not bashing banks etc., but trying to warn them of the consequences.
It won’t affect me personally as I retired over 2 years ago.
I am writing here about opening times where you are coming face to face with your clients.
It may come as a surprise to you that retailing is not a matter of sitting behind a till funnelling money into it and if you look you will see many retailers working after hours and on Sundays doing essential maintainance, stocking, cleaning, redisplaying and even paperwork.
When you worked those occasional weekends etc., you were not taken from your work by casual callers, but could focus on your project without distraction.
If shops are going to open on 7 days a week they will need all the back-up services that are available during the present week trading.
When I first started work, the Banks closed Thursday afternoons and opened Saturday mornings. They then decided to close Saturdays and open all day Thursday. Now they are opening on Saturday mornings also, so it has been happening to the banks and slowly and surely there will be pressure to open for a few hours on Sundays.
You should also be against increased opening hours. It will affect you or your successors.
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They might as well change their stupid closing times as 11.00 for pub and 2.00 am for disco is ridiculous.
They want to come out from the dark ages, there is still lots of work to do…
I do not understand why Jersey Pearl or Goldsmith can open Sundays ( I think) and not over shops. Because of their restaurant???
The size of the shop should not come into consideration.
In my case, the only time to go shopping with the Mrs is Sunday and I wish B and Q was open also.
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“I would not want to be a day tripper from France on a Sunday, its as dead as a dodo.”
Most of France is like the proverbial parrot on a Sunday and in some places on Wednesday as well, plus the generous lunch breaks.
Do any shops in Jersey close from 12 – 2 so that a good lunch can be enjoyed?
Outside the tourist towns in the season shop opening hours are shorter than in Jersey.
My French friends are stunned by the opening hours of Spar, Checkers and Co Op Locale.
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Nigel 64
“It may come as a surprise to you” that you may not understand the finance industry as well as you think.
There are other banks in the island too, as well as trust companies, law firms and other financial institutions….not just your high street, retail bank.
Most of these institutions, although may not speak to many of their customers face to face, certainly have to speak to them on the phone and by email or Skype…..or any time the client decides to visit the offices personally. Increasingly these institutions are expected to have a presence 24/7 to service the ever demanding customer. Even bank holidays are not longer a time for a break in the finance industry because other parts of the world will still need to be serviced.
“You should also be against increased opening hours. It will affect you or your successors.”
Why? It is already happening and has been for a long time now…….but now it’s time to help service the locally employed taxpayers who cannot easily shop during the week.
I’m sure you’d be first to moan if pubs, convenience stores, restaurants….or whatever outlets you take for granted on a Sunday….decided to close too.
That would smack of hypocrisy in my book
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Well,i have to agree with Gearld Voisin and Nigel Pearce,the truth is out there.Many years ago , when sunday trading was first muted,i worked for the same firm as Nigel( Time Jewellers), and then we were taken over by a mainline company (Ratners) who immediately set upon the managerial staff of the 30 local shops they owned to lobby our politicians to allow sunday opening. There was to be NO benefit for the staff other than to have thier “day off” (sunday)spread during the week.So,staff with families would lose out financially and emotionally. There would be no “double time” for sunday.Take it or leave it.
Mr. Voisin points out that this new ruling will lead to more immigration.Just what we dont want.More eastern europeans(polish)claiming benefits,and sending all our money back to thier homeland.Check out the King St.branch of HSBC oppisite BHS every thursday evening 5pm ,its a huge queue of “prammers” withdrawing my hard earned cash in order to trans it to thier homeland. They do not spend a penny here.Not in shops ,or restaurants or bars.Last saturdays Daily Mail said that the polish are sending over £50 BILLION a year back to poland , and at the same time claiming over £4 BILLION in benefits. Its happening here too. Mr.Voisin,please come back to the states,your island needs you.Sunday trading is a farce.
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Tracy@40 Totally agree with your post. And Leah @32 If anyone knows how to live their lives well, it’s the French. We won’t be opening, no way. This will make our competitors less competitive( if they are suckered into opening seven days a week).No reversing trucks / forklifts driving our neighbours mad…beep beep beep.My staff are free to join their families on the beach or sit back and watch the sport.The pro Sunday shopping brigade need to “get a life”. It’s fun.
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#38 & #39 Your point sounds very valid, but for many people it’s not about it being a Sunday, it’s just about it being 1 day out of 7 when things are just not as busy as on other days.
It’s an easy thing to wish for 7-day shopping but increasingly those that have had it for years (that includes me) have seen that it isn’t such a great thing. Of course it’s convenient, but you’d be surprised at the skills you currently have that start to slip, at how you feel pressured to go get something because you can. You start off very well-intentioned but eventually it creeps in on your life.
I, for one, and not saying it’s a bad idea because Sunday trading is wrong. I’m saying it’s a bad idea because I’ve had decades of experience of it in the UK and when the novelty wears off it becomes increasingly unpleasant and does add to the general stress of life.
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The reality is that shop employees deserve a day off and some still go to church,then relax with their families and friends.This is a step to enforce working on a Sunday or potentially face dismissal.Public Sector employees seem to knock off very early on a Friday afternoon, not sure why they have this expedient,and do not re emerge until Monday.Can we expect that they will also be included as part of this States plan to end Sunday, for shop workers in the private sector, as a day of rest?
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Nigel
It is such a shame that we all have to deal with customers when we want to keep taking their money.
It is a good job you are retired and not employed in the modern finance industry, I’ll think of you next time I deal with a client at the weekend.
Enjoy your pension and bus pass, I’ll keep paying my tax and stamps and you can enjoy your vision of Captain Mainwaring the finance worker.
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67 Parktown prawn
I was discussing local business, not international. The implications are totally different.
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OMG! Pip – You have friends?!?! Never have I read anything so absurd!!! Surely not… then again, I suppose your “French friends”, are in yoru mind, so you tell people… “I have French friends…”, who in fact are just people who run the hotel you stay at, and poke fun at you in french….
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@67
I worked for more than a decade in the finance industry before finally moving on to bigger and better things.
What makes you think that the workers in the finance industry, should get the same service as the clients of the finance industry?
Let me assure you that the clients of the finance industry get the same service from me as they do from you, they pay for it. They get my personal mobile phone number and can call me 24/7.
You get the standard, high quality service which is offered, but only in the 42.5 hours that we are open because that is all you are willing to pay for. You have already been moaning that you are charged too much, well you get what you pay for.
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Why not compromise and say that shops are allowed to remain open on Sundays but an employer cannot force staff to work on those days i.e make it illegal to have an employment contract for retailers obliging staff to work Sundays?
That way they could take Sundays as optional overtime – if they can’t get enough staff to work on the Lord’s day(!) then too bad, the shop will have to remain closed.
p.s Tesco Express forever.
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No 71 Trevor
I think you seem to misunderstand that if people work on a Sunday I am pretty sure they would get a different day off and not have to work 7 days a week!
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Nigel
Yes, but the LOCAL workers who work around the clock to services international customers are LOCAL customers. Is that clearer?
Nigel Jr (Darius)
What an ignorant post!!
Remember…. the tens of thousands of finance workers, emergency workers and other people who work outside the normal 9-5:30 high street shopping week in Jersey are customer’s too!!
Now you can see why people are opting for online shopping when this is the sort of contempt you show your local client base.
We get what we pay for?….too damn right….I will not be paying money to satisfy ignorant local retailers like yourself who think the consumer owes you a living.
I will spend where I get the best service regardless of price!
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French shops are open on Sunday for tourists. Go out of big towns and they are all closed.
Have you seen any tourist in Jersey walking without a stick???
It is time to do something for the younger generation of tourists.
Do not look at what the French are doing if you are not ready to change the clocks to French time, having later opening hours for pubs and clubs and working hours from 9am till 12 and 2pm to 7pm.
You can’t get tourists with closed shops on Sundays and pubs closing at 11.00pm,French goes to night clubs around 1.00am.To tell you the disappointment when they are left at 2.00am with nowhere to go, nothing to do and nothing to eat.
No shopping can be done on Sunday and prices are full of GST and greediness.
So,as it stands: Jersey nice scenery , but bloody boring and expensive.
You want Jersey as it was 50 years ago: buy a time machine.
You want to see business booming: pull your fingers out and deal with the situation.
Shops are closing and tourists are only to be seen on Saturday by French day trippers.
Some do not want to change their habits,but I would rather work on Sunday than not working at all.
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Everyone that is off on Sunday that goes out uses services that mean someone else is working so whats the big deal here? I used to work in catering and for years did not have a Sunday off, let alone Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Years Eve/Day…people in this industry have no choice as these are the busiest times.
I now work in finance and still have to work weekends sometimes.
Personally I join the club that would like the garden centres and B&Q open on a Sunday, nothing like a stroll round and afternoon tea or up to B&Q for the one thing you forgot to buy to finish your latest DIY attempt
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Delta unfortunately that will be very unlikely to happen. Employers will “expect” their minions to work regardless of what the employee wants, maximising profit is afterall what it is about not what the employee may want.
As for Sunday I would have throught double pay would be fair so that any employer wanting to work would get proper remuneration for their sacrifice. Certainly not the weekday rates. This would be taking advantage as far as I am concerned.
A yes they would however what use is say a Monday when your other day off is a Thursday? Thats if you are lucky enough to be given 2 days a week away from the drudgery that marsquerades as work for the vast majority now.
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78 Parktown Prawn
I see that you have had to resort to being less than polite about my son Darius.
Are you trying to tell me that the workers described in your comment, never get even a few hours off during the week but are working each and every day nonstop? If this is so, they won’t even have time to shop online. (This certainly doesn’t apply to our emergency workers who do shifts but have colleagues so that between them they cover all the week).
If this is so in the finance industry (and I have another 2 sons who are accountants)then you need to get yourself a good union representative as slavery has long been abolished.
79. Shut up or Pay.
Have you ever been to St. Malo at night?
Very little happens after about 9pm. except when the funfair is in town.
Jersey is not Paris or even Rennes and does not have people coming in from outside the island to spend the evening partying before going home to their beds. In the villages it is even quieter.
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Adrian – so are you under the impression that most people who already work in an industry that provides services on a sunday only give their workers one day off, or if they get two days off it is split days, and that they pay double time?
I really don’t care either way whether the shops are open on a sunday, I rarely venture into the big city anyway but the double standards of all who think that sunday shop opening will ruin the lives of the employees should take a step back and look at all the services that are provided on a sunday and see how those staff fare, and why it shouldn’t be such an issue for people to work on a sunday.
Next time you are sitting in a cafe, restaurant, pub or hotel enjoying your sunday….take time to look around outside of your tiny little self bubble and notice the people that are serving you. Do you think that those people bringing your sunday lunch at the somerville, or full english breakfast at el tico or your glass of wine at the watersplash have a lesser quality of life, or only get one day off (and they certainly are not paid double time). If you find yourself in A & E on a sunday think about the taxi driver that took you there and then about the receptionist and medical staff that are looking after you. What about the person serving you in the spar store that you have gone to because you forgot to buy something in the week?
I don’t see anyone shouting about the unfairness of that! Maybe because its not unfair, it’s just working life.
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@82 “Jersey is not Paris or even Rennes and does not have people coming in from outside the island to spend the evening partying before going home to their beds”
If you can drag yourself out after 9pm Nigel, you will see that these rare foreign creatures do exist, you’ll find them in bars and restaurants, even ‘partying’. They even have a name, we locals affectionately call them ‘tourists’.
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Nigel
And you think your darling little boy was being polite?
I have been as polite to your son as he has been in his comments.
Try having a read of what he said about the level of service a finance worker should expect locally….then perhaps explain what he meant.
You should not really comment on an industry you clearly know little about. People in finance work shifts too….some have different days off during the week and a lot of them work plenty of hours overtime too(usually unpaid).
If you haven’t noticed the changing world around you then let me explain…..people are expected to work harder and longer now because the workforce has been cut which involves larger workloads covering for their now jobless ex-colleagues….and if they don’t comply then their employers will find someone who will.
Now, In my opinion, these hard working people who pay their taxes and are doing their bit for the economy would also appreciate more flexible shopping hours.
I really do not see why you continue to comment, with your selfish opinion……if you don’t agree with the new proposal then just don’t open….people will take their business elsewhere!
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A (83) my point exactly, but it is far more than that. Watch television. Switch an electric light on. Read a newspaper on a Monday. Anyone want a world in which no-one works on a Sunday?
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@78
Ah so you have revealed yourself.
Finance industry clients pay £500/hr for you to turn up on a Sunday occasionally – you expect a bourgeois service at a proletariat price.
You are a member of the proletariat my friend – do not get above yourself.
@83
But those are in the main foreign workers you know the ones that everyone moans about who do those jobs because Jersey people are not willing to do them. Many of them actually work three or four jobs at £6.50 per hour over sixty to eighty hours to afford to live in Jersey so I don’t think they are a good example to use.
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It’s already been said, but I would like to reiterate that it would be more valuable to families to have garden centres and DIY places open on a Sunday. These are often family outings as couples go together and children have play area then a nice meal or snack or just a cuppa together – this does not deter from family life so why are we deprived?
Incidentally, I don’t think many families will be visiting the shops in town together on a Sunday….
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James Wiley
I am talking about those workers who do not have the luxury of shopping during the normal high street week, therefore, Sunday opening would be a blessing.
What on earth are you talking about….you make no sense with regards to my argument!
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Well, I don’t work in retail or finance, but I would personally like our town to remain closed on a Sunday. Do we really need family time interrupted by more shopping opportunities? I find it amusing reading all the posts above, particulalry how the majority of finance workers seem to think that the entire island should revolve around them! Thank God I’m self sufficient and don’t need a penny from finance industry drones! Retailers, you have my sympathy! Why not just put in a John Lewis megastore on the waterfront and close the town precint, I’m sure Danada would find a use for all the empty shops! The Finance industry is this islands cancer, tourism and agriculture were killed off, as it was the bigger, greener apple, but it was a poisonous one.
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Some things are essential every day of the week and have to be covered (the emergency services, for instance).
However there is no desperation to buy clothes, shoes, furniture, jewellery or even a pint of milk on a Sunday.
It is all about having a release from the humdrum monotony of having a week that is the same every day.
How about a walk on the beach or over the cliffs,(even in the rain)?
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Most people seem to miss the basic point. Economically, opening on Sunday only caters to a small “new” demand: almost entirely French ay trippers. There are not going to be many local residents who are going to spend more in town because it is open on a Sunday. So you are spreading six days spending across seven days.
The costs of operating the shops will therefore rise, and this will be reflected in increased costs. Given that retailers are already struggling, and many of the people clamouring for Sunday opening are the first to criticise “rip-off” Jersey, the perception that this is a good thing is rather surprising.
By the way, did anyone see Ludlow market on BBC2 last night? Puts the central market to shame. And kind of highlights that the problem with town is that it is dull, unattractive and the retail offersing unimaginative. Not sure how opening it on a Sunday will help.
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@ Nigel
St Malo is not France and St Malo is not just inside the walls.
French have dinner watching the 8 o’clock news. Start to go out around 9 or 10 in Pubs.
You normally leave the pubs around midnight or 1.00 am and go to a club up to 5 am.
Clubs are normally in industrial area or out of town.
St Malo intramuros is mainly for tourists and locals tend to avoid inflated prices.
Jersey night life is definitely more exiting than most french medium cities.
But local closing hours are leading to bad drinking habits.
Not to mention that pubs,clubs, and fish and ships shops could make more money if everybody wasn’t chocked out at 2.00am.
French serves you croissants at 8.00am on new years eve in clubs and in Jersey everything is over at 3.00am.
So for me , Sunday trading , early closing hours are part of the same stupid laws which didn’t allow you to rent a video, by petrol or even dance on the Sunday.
Archaic laws , by boring protectionist politicians who do not have clue of what the young population is untitled to in the 21st century.
Why can’t you order a pizza at 3.00 am if you fell like it!
Why can’t you go to Band Q on Sunday ?
If shops were to open on Sundays, and no customer were attending, they wouldn’t stay open. As simple as that. Have the option and do what you think is best for your business.
When it comes to the staff quality of life.
Life is tough, if you don’t like your job , find another one. If you can’t, that will teach your children to study more at school.
For info: I rarely get a Saturday off, and in the past, I worked many Sundays, night shifts , bank holidays, new year and Xmas, the same as many other over here …
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85 Parktown Prawn
You comment that I should not continue to comment because of my selfish opinion meaning I do not agree with you and because I want to protect our different day.
I could say the same about your comments.
You should appreciate that longer opening hours will not increase trade one iota.
You can only spend the money you have. Because shops are open longer you will not spend £115 instead of £100 and costs (therefore prices) will rise.
It would appear I understant finance better than you understand retail.
93. Shut up and Pay
Last year I visited France 9 times to various locations and only in the large cities is there much life later at night. I rarely go St Malo intra muros because of the greed and money grabbing attitude of the local shops. The Sundays I have been there have been busy with people but not much trade.
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What a shock to see more Polish bashing in here.
Why has this got to do with the Polish? Nothing. If anything, it will be the Polish serving you in the shops when you make a trip into town on a Sunday. Every Polish person I’ve met has been a credit to themselves. Comments like #68 make us look like a stone age backwards island. Keep your bigoted comments to yourself.
As for Sunday trading. Good. Jersey is slowly moving with the times, whilst I’ll be steering clear of town on Sunday I believe others may find it to be to their advantage. Just because the shops are open on a Sunday does not mean you have to shop. Do what you please. You are not forced to shop on a Sunday, talks of ‘ruining family time’ are laughable.
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“French have dinner watching the 8 o’clock news. Start to go out around 9 or 10 in pubs.”
More likely head off to bed; Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Most French desk jockeys work 8am – 12am, 2 – 5pm, Monday to Friday and not a minute more or less than their legal maximum and contractual 35 hours and some of them travel hours to get there so they are up at sparrow fart.
Do not expect anything official done in August. The office is open but it is virtually certain that one of the individuals who has to sign the papers is on holiday, the French do not do delegation or substitution.
I am ‘lucky’ to work in France from time to time. Anyone who complains about the States should try getting something through the local hôtel de ville.
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Re: Shut Up and Pay.
You seem to have a very poor opinion of Retail staff. You make it sound as though they are worthless creatures, who should be grateful to actually be in employment. It is people like you that make living on this rock barely tolerable at times. The best description of Jersey I ever heard was of it described as “Little Hollywood” because so many nobody’s think they are somebody’s!
Retail isn’t all about low paid staff, I know retail staff who earn more than Trust Administrators for example. Are you saying that all retail staff are poorly educated? If so you have social issues, and need to take a long hard look at yourself. Here’s a tip for you, go to B and Q after work Monday to Saturday, it’s usually quiet after 7! if not then, perhaps on your day off. They are open for a whole 12 hours! Take your pick of which hour suits you! Also with regards to rewarding your tastebuds at 3 am, stock your freezer with Pizza’s. Duh! Life in Jersey really isn’t that difficult. People like you should watch the news more, see what’s happening in this often torrid world of ours, and get a reality check! How do you lift your worried little head off the pillow in the mornings?! JESUS!
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Ah now I remember why I left jersey. Perhaps they should open the schools on a Sunday as well and maybe some of the people commenting in here could go and get the education they so obviously need!
Sunday opening will not suite everyone, you are not all the same. You don’t have the same jobs and you don’t live the same lives. Its called a society. The fact everyone is different means that the local infrastructure needs to provide for these differences. If you don’t want to shop on a Sunday don’t.
If you think Sunday opening will mean family and friends time is ruined then maybe they didn’t want to spend time with you in the first place?? Now they have a choice. If your friends decline that lunch to go shopping then maybe you need to work on your social skills?? Just a thought.
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We reap what we sow!
I know a number of potential very good “salt of the earth” potentially excellent candidates who won’t stand in the elections due to the fact that so many of the States debates have become perconal.
When I look at some of the comments like Carly (30) who responds to the topic by issuing a personal attack it makes me realise that our politicians are not the only nasty ones who seem unable to respond without becoming personal. It reminds me of playground bullies.
95. Good post / 68. Archie Rondel – you don’t have a clue. I employed one of the first Polish people in Jersey and very few have got qualifications and are entitled to claim benefits. Most fixed contract workers can’t even go to the doctor without paying full whack as they haven’t been in the island long enough to contribute and as someone else said, working a number of jobs they don’t have the luxury of getting ill often. So….polish people pay into the social security pot and take very little out – who is being unfair to whom??
And secondly, your assertion that they don’t buy anything is incorrect. Many buy white goods and televisions to take home because they are now so expensive in Poland. They buy lighting, clothing and food, have memberships to Durrell and generally integrate into the community far more than any other wave of immigrants. They are good amabssadors for their country and put a number of us locals to shame!
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@ George
I say what I say because I worked in catering and retail all my life.
I know what it feel like to be working when your mates are all having fun. Missing out on multiple opportunities while I was stuck at work.
I worked on new year eve and Xmas with nowhere to go after my shift as every was closed at 2.00 or 3.00 am.
I do not feel sorry for myself or anybody else.
The only one to blame is myself, and I wish I never had to work in retail.
Standing up all day to serve customers which could be rude to you is not particularly fun.Pretty boring 80% of the time.
And if 16 years old can work in retail that should tell you that you do not need to come out from Cambridge to qualify.
You want to talk about wages over the years:
Kitchen porter : £125/ week with a room
Bar staff : £165/ week + tips
retail shop Manager : 17K a year
Play .com packing: min wage.
If 40K is the average wage in Jersey, staff in retail are exploited.
I worked hard all my life for peanuts sometimes,finished day time work to work part time in pubs, served thousand of customers, struggle with disgusting accommodations ,never claim benefits, and knowing that Jersey kids are scared to work and some aren’t willing to work on Sundays is just upsetting.
And If I work hard and want to have a fresh pizza delivered at my door, I do not understand why this is a problem.
Go to India, Thailand and you will see that working on a Sunday is not as bad as 4.am to 9pm everyday for not even £20/day or a week.
You say: Life in Jersey really isn’t that difficult.
For some yes…
You want me to watch the news to see the Jersey world.
What I can see is shops closing, the waterfront going down, young ones out of work, cheap labor working hard, benefits out of control and an Island with some pretty archaic and discriminating laws.
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Re (83) my point exactly, but it is far more than that. Watch television. Switch an electric light on. Read a newspaper on a Monday. Anyone want a world in which no-one works on a Sunday?
No, but I’d like an island where as few people as possible had to work on a Sunday. I have to work 2 out of 3 Sundays and I hate it. I can’t afford to give up my job, and would stand little chance of getting another. My friends and family all work “9-5″ and I continually miss out. I won’t be joining them on the beach this Sunday, I’ll be there on my own on Monday. Why can’t Jersey be different?
I don’t care if I get to be with the people I want to be with on a Sunday or Thursday, but just one day a week, please.
I can’t imagine anyone who voted for this has anyone close to them who has to continually work weekends – if you’ve never had to be grateful, and ask yourself if you could really manage without until tomorrow.
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Personally I would be unlikely to use town on a Sunday,except perhaps just before Christmas. I don’t go there much anyway, find the shops cramped and expensive and parking difficult (and I own a computer)! But others would, and I certainly would use the garden centres and BandQ, Sunday is often a time for gardening and odd jobs and then you realise you need something…..and everywhere that might sell it is shut.
I think Sunday opening would bring us a bit more into the 21st century, boost employment and provide a better experience for tourists. it shoulkd be controlled hours (10-4?) and workers should be paid extra for Sunday working. I don’t buy that stuff about it ruining family life, I. lived in the UK for years and it didn’t ruin mine. If you want a good family life you make it happen.
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#98 Jim, to be fair, a pretty concise and raw assessment of Jersey life!
Shut Up and Pay, you confuse me, why do you think so lowly of retail staff when you have done it yourself, other than you having a low opinion of yourself? There are quality end of retail too, there are scores of decent, well educated, socially skilled retail workers on this island. Some people I know have chosen retail over office work, as they prefer speaking with the public, not just colleagues. For those who are the best of what they do, they earn very good money, on a par with or exceeding what an office administrator gets.
You also mention serving thousands of customers and 80% of the time it wasn’t fun! Well I think that says more about you than it does about them. I’m a firm believer of what you get out of people is what you put in. If you showed that 80% of the time you didn’t want to be there, then I’m not surprised your customers weren’t singing and dancing for you. If your life sucks, then only you can change it. That’s why the Polish get ahead, they work damn hard, and further their education.
Also why all the Jersey youth bashing. Some are having a lot of trouble finding work, it’s a difficult time, marred by the island not having a firm immigration policy, which means the hard working Polish are ripe for job opportunities, as they are willing to work for less. This isn’t their fault either, it’s our failed governments.
As for Sunday trading, it’s a further erosion of what made Jersey different, peaceful and a slower pace than the UK. It seems to me that we are pandering to those who have come to Jersey to live, yet want the city lives they used to have. Perhaps I’m wrong, fellow beans, please correct me if I’m wrong! I’m sure you will
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I work for a large well known bank. I start at 8.00 and rarely finish before 19.00 Lunch is normally a fifteen minute trip to buy a sandwich.
I do most of my non food shopping online – cheaper, more choice and frankly better service than waiting for some non english speaker to realise they have a customer in their store.
Sundays however should not be a trading day, not for religious reasons or anything else but as Tracy Turmel above says families need to be together and have down time.
The bank i work for is considering opening all branches with cashiers on a saturday (9 to 5) and Sunday mornings (to accept takings from businesses).
This proposal by the states is solely for the tax revenue benefit. Some states member has obviously pointed out that people working 9 to 5 monday to saturday cannot generate any GST as they do not have a chance to shop.
So.. Jersey’s standard of living goes down, tax revenue goes up..
Sound familiar? its the mantra of the council of ministers.
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For those who would like to see Garden Centres open on a Sunday, Well “Holme Grown” is.
I have purchased plants, shrubs, and even garden furniture there, I have olso had a Sunday lunch there.
This facility sells anything found in any other Garden Centre, is it classed as a Garden Centre?
Is it possible that other Garden Centres could open if they so wished on a Sunday or is “Holme Grown” a special case?
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Please refresh my memory.When is it that THE STATES begin SUNDAY SITTINGS.???
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@87 – spare a thought for the members of the local population who have to work long hours to be able to survive in Jersey. In contrast, the migrants have chosen to come here!
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Shut up and Pay
‘French have dinner watching the 8 o’clock news. Start to go out around 9 or 10 in Pubs.
You normally leave the pubs around midnight or 1.00 am and go to a club up to 5 am.’
It didn’t take me very long to work out the optimum use of time is to go to sleep in the middle of the night. Why do the French and Shut up and Pay have to struggle with such an obvious concept?
‘French serves you croissants at 8.00am on new years eve in clubs’
And again on New Years Day, presumably.
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At the end of the day, none of us have anymore money to spend, just an extra day to spend it. If people shop on Sunday other times of the week will be quieter. I was one of the “lucky” ones who had to work Sundays when trading started years ago in OZ. It ruined our only family day together but if I wanted a job I had to work. It’s a social disaster and not necessary.
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George,
You obviously never worked on a shop floor. You do not have clue of what retail and catering is all about until you experience the reality of the wages, working hours. I guess your friends have good jobs, and good jobs takes time to get to. you are talking of a minority here. And the Polish staff working with me were doing retail because of the 5 year residency, as soon as they could, they left to work in banks, trust or accountancy companies. And I pull my hat to all the one still working at week ends, and done so for the last 25 years.
And do not start me with some of the locals kids : you have to see it to believe it … Good hard working ones are rare.
C Le verdic, It is not because I prefer to stay in at the week end that I have to stop the younger generation (or potential tourists) to have fun.
I talk about experienced facts, in France, and Spanish are even later than French to socialise. Look at the Brits on holiday programmes and tell me that Uk is the perfect example of what licensing laws should be.
And if night time is for sleeping as you so cleverly pointed, what nurses, policemen, taxis, caterers and more are doing in the middle of the night??? are they vampires ? They are there to look after you when you decide to get out of the house passed bed time.
Some in here don’t seems to see that in this difficult financial climate, giving the opportunity to be open on a sunday and potentially create more job is a good opportunity for certain retailers. Not all obviously. But If my shop was near to bankruptcy, I would work 24/7 it take to make it right.
There is no more bobble around jersey , and if all that gst, inflation, later retirement, social security taxes going up are not telling you that something needs to be done to save some retail businesses. We are all going to have a reality check sooner than later…
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The bottom line is that only essential services need to be on call/working on a Sunday. There is no need for any other business to be open.
It is a lame excuse that people need a Sunday to buy food and items. There are already 6 days in which to shop. If people can’t manage an hour or two over 6 days what hope is there they will manage to do it in 7? If people can’t plan to have enough food to eat on a Sunday what hope is there?
At the end of the day if people want to waste valuable family time working on a Sunday all well and good but don’t expect others who DO NOT WANT TO WORK ON A SUNDAY to be forced to.
People need to realise that there is more to life than work work work. Society is collapsing as a direct result of the rampant capitalistic consumeristic system that cares not for a decent quality of life.
All that is happening is that workers are becoming slaves to the system. Quality of life whats that now? Something reserved for the rich? because this looks exactly what is it.
Vote Quint! people should be honoring their job descriptions if you are paid for 35 hours you do 35 hours and not a minute less and not a minute more end of. Maybe as a favour to your boss if they are a decent and caring person you could do the odd 5 minutes here and there but if you are doing more than that then you get paid for the inconvienence and impact on your own time and family life. This is only right in a fair and just society.
Employers shouldn’t be making their staff work on a Sunday after all this is akin to the employee demanding and getting less hours for the same money. The usual right wingers would be up in arms if the second approach occured but see nothing wrong with the first. Double standards seem to be the norm these days.
At the end of the day if all workers (except of cause the emergency services who have to do it as it is a matter of life and death) refused to work on a Sunday then employers wouldn’t be open unless they came in and did the work themselves. Fat chance of that for 99% I would say, better to disrupt the workers family time whilst they spend time on the golf course or going out for a lobster lunch!
The bottom line is why does Jersey have to do something just because the UK does it? It is nice to be different and not a clone of the UK.
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I agree with Sunday trading as long as people are not put under pressure to work. It would be nice if shops were open at the weekend.
The shops need to stock up more – went to 4 St Helier shops looking for skate shoes for my son none had his size, the assistant in Roulette was a bit off, so we went on Sportsdirect and they came down within 3 days.
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111. commrade Adrian,
Please get in the real world.
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113 Norman Conquest > i think it’s you are unreasoning. Adrian @ 111, is essentially correct, and most of his comment has nothing to do with politics, simple common sense.
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Solution is quite simple.
Enforce in law minimum hourly salary level to be paid on Sunday twice as on normal day, unconditionally, even if employee is going to get time in lieu (unless it is going to get two days off time in lieu). No square meter limits, no type of good limits. No politicians of any kind making decision in behalf of business.
Then let the shop owner to decide.
Volenti non fit iniuria.
@113 Norman Conquest : ‘commrade Adrian’
Very well said.
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Adrian, you have clearly gone beyond any normality. Just because your religous views are so strong that you wish to pray on the day of rest, remember that the majority of the world is far from religious, and definitely not Christian. Accordingly there is no reason why Sunday should be treated any differently than any other day. As long as people have enough rest then what is the problem when it occurs. People already work Sunday’s baking bread, hotels, restaurants.
I want shops to be open, if you don’t want to shop on a Sunday, then don’t, but how dare you tell me when I can or can’t.
Adrian, you really need to take a tablet.
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Shut Up and Pay. To correct you, I have worked twice in the retail industry, both of them in technology retailers, and I found it to be rewarding work, as I was then, and still am a gadget freak. I only moved on to follow a career path my qualifications lead me to. If your not happy with your lot, get qualified and move on!
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Along with the right to shop 7 days a week, what about those who insist they should be able to sit in a club at 6am partying on until sunrise. Do we also respect their wishes and further impact upon the islands way of life? Exactly where do we draw the line? I have to say that I’m certain most people of Jersey origin, are against this, as we are once again pandering to those who want their Mainland lifestyle on a small, and once tranquil island. Jersey was a getaway from the Mainland way of life, now it’s just like a UK town. I’m sure that regardless of where we originate from, those who truly love this Island will at some point look back and miss what was. Those who don’t care about Jersey are the precise problem this island has!
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Jonathan unfortunately there are too many easily led people who have no backbone to say no. They prefer to aimlessly follow the flow like sheeple believing all they are told about how good this and that is even when it plainly isn’t. Society is going downhill as a direct result of this so called progress.
RT you don’t need to be religious to realise people need down time and they need to spend it with family and friends. Are you advocating sending children to school on a Sunday so that their parents work patterns can coincide with their childrens’ free time? If not why not? You have claimed the weekend isn’t special so I have no doubt this is the sort of thing you agree with.
Also how dare you expect others to be forced to work on their weekend so as to waste time serving the likes of you who care not about others well being. It is your type of attitude that is erroding the quality of life for many people so that your selfish needs can be met. Think of others for a change and not yourself.
Slawek if a shop owner wants to waste a Sunday at work instead of with their family and friends thats their perrogative but you shouldn’t expect a worker to be forced to do so just because their boss tells them to.
It is good however that you agree with me that Sunday’s are worth double pay.
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116 Real Truthseeker (who-ever that may be).
Still seeking the real truth but spouting a load of uninformed nonsense.
Will you be working on Sundays? If not, why not?
Don’t tell me that your proffesion would not serve the general public better by being available to the public on Sundays.
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To answer the questions of the ill-educated of Adrian and Nigel. All businesses should have the CHOICE to conduct business on as many days they like. Accordingly, if people want to work 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7 days a week they should be allowed to. So those who want to earn more can, and others who want less working hours can.
This is simple stuff, but understandably for too complex for the likes of the uninformed.
It is simple, people who want to work enter into individual employment contracts based on mutual arrangements….
Then again, Comrade Adrian wouldn’t like that, because he wants everyone to be held back in unionised work forces, where lazy people are subsidised by hard workers.
Bring on 7-day trading – the sooner the better for the people and the economy. Win Win. Adrian and Nigel, just close the doors on Sunday and listen to Radio 4.
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For once I totally agree with RT.
Why is Sunday so special?
It would be interesting to know how many of those complaining they can’t attend church or spend quality time with the family on a Sunday…..actually DO those things week in and week out!!
For those who are too set in their medieval ways and are complaining that their boss shouldn’t be able to “force” people to work on a Sunday, consider this…
a) if it’s in your contract then what is the problem?
b) if it’s not in your contract then what is the problem?
c) what is the difference with being “forced” to work Mon-Sat?
d) move with the times and consumer demand….if there is no demand then shops won’t need to open.
e) in most cases it will mean more employees are required instead of extra hours for existing employees.
f) there are already plenty of people working Sundays as it is….and I bet plenty more who would like a job or additional income(teenagers, umeployed and those not ready to retire for starters)….
g) there is such a thing as employment legislation…..try reading up on it
Adrian,
You raise an interesting point about schooling. (Didn’t they used to have Sunday school?)
Perhaps opening schools 6 (or 7) days a week should be seriously considered since the youth of today don’t seem to be leaving school with the necessary skills to compete in an increasingly competitive workplace…….easy exams and coursework seems to be dumbing them down.
Besides, if most kids are complaining there is nothing to do in this island then we may as well keep them in school to give them something to do…..plus they have far too many holidays as it is!!
However…”Also how dare you expect others to be forced to work on their weekend so as to waste time serving the likes of you who care not about others well being. It is your type of attitude that is erroding the quality of life for many people so that your selfish needs can be met. Think of others for a change and not yourself.”
Do you not see the hypocrisy in your comment……or do you sit at home all day at the weekend, alone in a darkened room?
I have absolutely no doubt you visit shops, garages, pubs, restaurants or any other establishment where there are others working already to service your “selfish” needs on a Sunday!
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oh…and Adrian….you are constantly whinging that Jersey needs to diversify away from Finance…..well, what do you think this is????
It is a potential expansion of retail….
and service industries.
Your arguments are becoming increasingly flawed and inconsistent
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RT if you can’t find anything to do on a Sunday besides inhabit shops etc you must be a very sad individual.
Individual contracts and conditions can be altered by one party at the expense of the other. You only have to look to the UK to see examples of this, some have been mentioned on radio 4 over the last week or two. However as you inhabit radio gaga land you won’t know about this.
Employment leglislation is behind that of the UK, I wonder why if Jersey is supposed to be forward thinking?
Unions evolved due to exploitation of the workers in the early 19th century and yet they are still in existance. Why is this do you think?
In a properly evolved society there would be no need for them. This says a lot about how society is run, as far as I am concerned.
Hard workers by the way benefit the owners and shareholders as they increase their wealth on the back of their work. Employers therefore love hard workers and the harder they can get them to work the better for them.
Free overtime work is another added bonus as it is extra productivity and profit for nothing!! I’m sure you think this is fair and just don’t you?
P.S. when was the last time you put yourself out and worked (if you can call it that) on a Sunday?
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123. PP it isn’t whinging it is common sense to know that to be reliant on finance will/is causing problems. GST should be a warning shot across the bows for those who don’t think there is an issue with this.
Do you honestly think that a majority of people want to work on their weekends? It wouldn’t surprise me if most are fed up working Monday to Friday what with all the extra stress and worry being heaped on their shoulders day after day. Then there is the shock of having to work for another 2 years minimum soon instead of lounging on a beach in Thailand over the winter and being paid to do it via a state pension. Do you honestly think most want to work and would work if they didn’t have to? I think 9 out of 10 would be quite happy not to.
Retail is being superceded by online I am amazed you are unaware of this. How can opening for an extra day with the associated overheads and reducing sales make economic sense? People are spending less now on consumer products as they are fearful of what the future holds for Jersey.
Service industries for the most part already work 7 days so I can’t see how they can expand any further on 7 days working maybe you know a way around this?
Apart from the above points I have raised I can’t see much wrong with your post
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Take Religion out of the equation and there’s STILL an argument for Keeping Sunday Special, so that families can spend a day together. It’s only common sense for as much of society as possible to wind down and take it easy once a week. It should NOT all be about work work work spend spend spend. Get some balance back into modern life.
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Parktown Prawn 122.
Re: “if it’s not in your contract then what is the problem?”
I can’t believe you actually said that!
The problem is: “it’s not in my contract!”
I work on projects with contracts full of stipulated requirements and penalty clauses…what is printed in the contract is binding.
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Born Warrior…..
Maybe I should have been clearer….I meant…If it’s not in your contract to work on a Sunday….then what is the problem?
You are not contracted to work on Sunday
Likewise for the opposite…
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121 Real Truthseeker (still hiding)
Just because I have a reasoned argument which successfully counters yours, you have to resort to calling me uneducated. Therefore I presume you have reached the heights of intellectual perfection and I prostrate myself before you (well I would if you didn’t hide behind a pseudonym).
The argument is about more than seven day shopping. It is about the quality and variety of life in general.
If your interest is solely in making money, then yes, I can see the appeal of opening all hours in anticipation of that one large sale. However, when you have a little more experience of life, rather than just money adulation, your attitude will change. Seek and ye shall find.
p.s. I see you haven’t commented about the possibility of your business being open to the general public on Sundays (and maybe even Saturdays).
122 Parktown Prawn (another hiding behind a pseudonym)
No extra trade will be generated by an extra days opening. Why do you think that the shops are no longer open in the evenings which used to be throughout the Summer months? It is because there is no longer the demand.
It is not anything to do with any day of the week being special. Every day is special.
It is about there being relief from the everyday tedium that seven day shopping would bring. Indeed, having a different day in the week is diversification from the norm that you demand.
I advise you and Real Truthseeker to relax a little and enjoy the other things that this beautiful island has to offer.
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realtruthseeker
if you switched your tv off and missed eastenders and coronation st and listened to radio4, you would find some very interesting and educational programs to listen to though you semm to think you are better than the ordinary people already
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121 Real Truthseeker
I see that you have resorted to insults because your arguments have not stood up to those of Adrian and mine.
Not knowing him, I can’t speak for Adrian, but I did go to Grammar School where we were even taught Latin.
The argument is not about 7 day a week trading, but the quality of life for us mere mortals who are not primarily motivated by the number of zeros on our bank statement.
Most of us do not want to have the same routine every day, variety being the spice of life.
I’ve done my share of 7 days a week working and I can assure you that when you have more experience of life you will understand that it is not good in the long run as you miss out on so much.
I notice you did not respond as to whether you will be opening your business to the general public 7 days a week, though I presume you would have underlings to work the Sundays for you.
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What don’t people understand??
A) We are talking about having the CHOICE to shop 7 days a week……mainly because a lot of workers do not have time to shop during the normal High Street week. Why? Because they are working lomng and unsociable hours themselves. Why again? Because they need a job, there are not many around and their employers need them to work harder to cover the extra workloads of their now jobless ex-colleagues!!
B) If you do not wish to open your business then DON’T. Nobody is forcing you to.
C) There is employment legislation which states that: Minimum Rest Periods will be either…..
i) two uninterrupted rest periods each of not less than 24 hours in each 14-day period, or
ii) one uninterrupted rest period of not less than 48 hours in each 14-day period.
Therefore, nobosy will be FORCED to work 7 days a week!
D) There are plenty of people who will be grateful for the opportunity to work and earn an income…..whether it be on a Sunday or any other
E) Sunday is JUST ANOTHER DAY….like any other….deal with it.
F) Plenty of people ALREADY WORK SUNDAYS so those of you who oppose Sunday shopping are complete HYPOCRITES…..you are happy to be served by others yourselves on a Sunday!!
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131 Parktown Prawn
First you state that lots of workers cannot shop during normal hours because they are working.
Then you quote employment legislation under your section C. So how do you co-relate your statement in your opening paragraph with your statement in that marked C?
I would also point out that not that many years ago, shops used to open from 9am. to 10pm. This no longer happens due to lack of demand.
The argument is for keeping one day of the week different to the rest. See your remark about the need for diversity @ 123.
(diversity n. the state or quality of being different or varied).
p.s. will you be open for business seven days a week?
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PP A) are you seriously saying someone cannot shop between 8am-8pm Monday to Saturday? If you are then they have no quality of life and are slaves to the system. Sunday should be left alone as a recognised rest day. There is absolutely no need to force workers to come into work on this day.
I am quite happy to have Sunday as a day off from the capitalistic consumeristic machine and it would bother me not one jot that I couldn’t shop etc on a Sunday. It appears others are addicted to consumerism and expect others to serve them on a Sunday.
B)You do not have to open your business but are you forcing your workers to come in on a Sunday?
C) the leglislation you refer to implies to me that 12 straight days can be worked on the trot.
D) there are plenty of people who would love not to work on a Sunday and spend it with their families.
E) Sunday is not an ordinary day. It is recognised as a rest day and not a work day by the states.
F) a pretty pathetic excuse as I have already stated I am more than happy to lose my option to be served on a Sunday. I am able to amuse myself without having to go shopping unlike some others it appears.
P.S. are you happy to work on a Sunday yourself?
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#131 Parktown Prawn
‘Sunday is JUST ANOTHER DAY….like any other…’
If only, P.P..
Unfortunately Sunday is the day when Jersey bursts at the seams. At least on other days most are kept out of mischief by being contained at work. Saturdays are almost as bad as Sundays but if you want living proof that there are far too many inhabitants In Jersey a trip out on Sunday should do the trick.
Open the shops and let the town take some of the strain. Just think of the extra parking income too. Just needs some tweaking of the appropriate laws.
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Nigel
It’s called “overtime”…..some employees do this voluntarily (however, some are pressured into it – not “forced”)…..ever heard of it?
If our business decides to open 7 days a week, then we will simply employ more cover…simple.
However, I, like many others, work varied hours and having the flexibility to shop whenever I have any spare time would be well received
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Nigel,
What is your point…we are not discussing opening hours 9am until 10pm…..most workers are too tired to shop by then or simply have other things to do at that time of night.
An extra day would be more convenient for those who work hard.
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Adrian
I have worked on Saturdays & Sundays in the past…..with no pay…..unfortunately it was part and parcel of the job I did in Finance. I had no problems with it….if I did I would simply look for another job!
Are you confusing the States’ definition of Sunday with the Bible’s? The States have a day of rest EVERY day
Besides tell that to the people who already work on a Sunday……
That’s great that you don’t want to shop, that’s your choice……..so why are you trying to force your choice upon the very many of those who would prefer to shop on a Sunday…..doesn’t anyone else get a choice?
If you do not open your business then why would you force people to come in?
Read the legislation how you will…….it applies to EVERYBODY in employment now….not just Sunday workers!
I have yet to hear a valid reason for not opening on a Sunday…..just small minded and selfish opinions!
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RB Bougourd
That is very true….hopefully Sunday opening would help with that. If more people have other options, then others may find more peaceful pursuits with quieter beaches etc.
Spread the population a bit
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Parktown Prawn 128
Sorry about the misunderstanding, Parktown…I really must stop reading things with my left-wing eye only!
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PP no just the states leglislation as to what a workday and rest day are thats all.
PP job contracts often don’t end up as specified on the application form. This was what I was on about.
As far as I am concerned if you agree something with another party it should be honoured by both sides or else what is the point in having an agreement if it can be altered at will?
PP maybe you would prefer as many as possible to work between 6pm and 10am so as to have all 7 days free from traffic jams and less people as many will be trying to catch up on their sleep during the day?
If so it shouldn’t be that long before it happens once Sunday is overturned as a rest day.
If finance goes pop before 24/7 working becomes the norm you will get your wish of quieter times out and about.
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Parktown Prawn
@136 Some are pressured, not forced! What is the difference? Surely only subtle.
When you open seven days a week instead of six or five and you employ more staff, then you have to put up your prices to cover the extra costs and become part of what is popularly known as ‘rip off Jersey’. Unless you drive your competitors out of business, there is no more turnover to be gained.
If you work varied hours, spare a thought for those not in finance who do not get the same luxury.
@137 My point is that for various reasons, retail demand has dropped off and no longer justifies extended opening hours just to suit a few people who cannot be bothered to shop during Monday to Saturday 9am to 5.30pm. If you think only the finance industry works hard, try retailing and see what hard work is really like.
As per a previous post of yours, we need diversity, not the monotony of each and every day being the same.
@132 It’s more about what you don’t understand, it’s not what other people don’t understand.
@138 If you haven’t heard a valid reason against extra retail openings, then you have not absorbed the reasoning of many of the posts here. Try reading them thoroughly rather than just skipping the bits you don’t agree with. You haven’t answered Adrian as to whether you enjoyed having to work extra on a Sunday.
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141 Adrian
Modern employment contracts are a lot more detailed than you give them credit for (especially in Finance)….you can’t even change line manager in some places without getting the whole team’s consent and signed agreement to amend their contract.
Anyone who has an agreement specifying that they don’t work Sundays will not have to unless they agree to an amendment to their contract. If there is no such specification then there really is no complaint.
You are being silly now….6pm to 10 am ? Try keeping to the topic please Adrian….we are talking Sunday opening not 24/7!
You are diverging from my argument. I simply appreciate the opportunity to have more flexible shopping times….Sunday is more convenient for a lot of people. The fact it may help to spread the population over the weekend would be a bonus
You really are on an unnaturally obsessive crusade to see Finance fail in Jersey….. Jersey could become like one of those mid-western ghost towns, with tumbleweeds blowing in the wind, if Finance disappeared……..
Nigel, I do understand and appreciate your comment about higher costs, but who knows, maybe this would be an opportunity for local retailers to think outside the box and find ways to increase revenue.
If more local shops offered online services and delivery I would happily shop their first before looking elsewhere…..it could increase revenue and lower costs if it turns out they no longer need expensive high street outlets to do their business.
Why do you think the Jersey high street is losing so many customers? It’s not just all about prices, but convenience plays a huge part.
Nobody would be sacked purely for not doing overtime, although most contracts I’ve seen stipulate that longer hours may be required. Also, those who do work more overtime will most likely be favoured for any promotion or career advancement over somebody less willing…..on top of that you have to realise that most people will do what they can to keep their jobs in this uncertain climate…..there is the pressure for you.
The diversity I was talking about was in local industry…..an extra shopping day would surely go some way to expanding retail. Like I said earlier, it would increase job opportunities for youngsters and unemployed alike.
Maybe the states could use some of the fiscal stimulus (if there is any left) to help compensate the retailers who take on extra staff as a result….this would be money better spent in my opinion….better than using it to dig up roads all the time anyway. It could help reduce unemployment, reduce benefits, boost tax income and hopefully consumer spending…..surely this is what fiscal stimulus must aim to do.
I did answer Adrian about my experience working on a Sunday (see post 138)
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From my point of view I will be delighted if the shops open on Sundays. In addition it may offer part time work for mums ( or students) or else overtime to current staff who might want to work extra hours ( not forced of course! ) and despite what idiot Ozouf says in the JEP anything to keep our fragile economy moving sounds good to me!
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