Immigration tops your election agenda
Monday 8th August 2011, 2:57PM BST.
IMMIGRATION and States reform are two of the issues most concerning Islanders, according to the JEP’s 2011 pre-election survey.
Today, in the latest attempt to help Islanders set the agenda ahead of October’s election, we report on the questions that voters most want answering by aspiring politicians.
And overwhelmingly at the top of that list was what election candidates propose to do about immigration and if they will support urgent States reform.
• See Monday’s JEP for full report and part 1 of the analysis
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
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It is top of the agenda for most locally qualified actually. WE are sick to the back teeth of most things we a re being foobed off with, the right to know how many polish and portuguese immigrants there are here for a start.
Before any one stupid enough to call me racist starts, don’t bother, fed up with that card being used, there is more racial abuse towards local people than anyone else.
Quite frankly most of our deteriorating public services are being exhausted and we have been here many times before so like I said any newcomer foolish enough to start trying to sling mud and how would we cope without you etc etc, probably a lot better. We have been here before and all our farming family ministers have just been thinking of their stupid farms (which they get allowances for) and private rentals (CONFLICT OF INTEREST BY THE WAY)
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Vicki (1) the right to know how many polish and portuguese immigrants there are here
Vicki, you are too selective with your definition of ‘immigrants’. Remember Jersey has been a place of repose for immigrants for many years. Why not add English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Swiss, Italian, French and Spanish, to your list to name but a few, or are you an immigrant too? No sham there, my family were refugees when they arrived, three centuries age!
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It would be my top issue too.
Agree with Vicki.
It is obvious the island can’t cope as it is now,without allowing more in.
Just look at the length of time you have to wait for treatment at the hospital.
Look how many locals are unemployed,due to these taking up jobs.
The amount of flats they keep on building to accommodate these people in our overstretched island is something else.
The roads are choc a bloc with traffic,and empty of tourists, so life living here has deteriorated drastically over a number of years.
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Vicki
You’re obviously not one of the local landlords who have made themselves rich by exploiting these immigrants for the last 15 years?
It’s not the immigrants fault its the sorry excuse for a government that have mismanaged this Island so badly and not better managed immigration. Racial abuse towards local people?? Dont make me laugh that’s just ridiculous and if you dont want to be called a racist then dont rant like one, what about all of the UK & Irish and other immigrants? You only seem bothered by the Portuguese and Polish… which is ACTUALLY racist!
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1. Vicki – here here! I totally agree with you and believe the States have already left it too late to sort out this immigration problem. I cannot believe that the States have let so many people in without even implementing an immigration system. Jersey is far too small to not have something in place. Why wasn’t a system implemented like they do with Australia/ New Zealand? I just don’t understand it and feel that we have been severely let down by the States.
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#4 Chris
I find it almost impossible that we could justify UK Taxpayers having subsidise the reciprocal health agreement, but then treat them exactly the same as Portuguese or Polish people with regards to immigration.
We are part of the British Isles, but we are not part of the EU, so there’s no reason at all why Eastern Europeans should be treated the same way as British passport holders.
As far as I’m concerned Chris, there’s nothing racist about those views
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Quite frankly I don’t give a monkeys if people want to call my comments racist, you ask anybody living a meagre life on an average wage (no not snobbish terminology of average either I mean average) who doesn’t have the luxury of private this and private that, you ask nurses you ask parents who are English speaking at states schools you ask anybody who doesn’t walk around with their head up the backside, in the sand or in the clouds, ask any local who lived in social housing..
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I’d happily see all the UK immigrants leave over the Portuguese/polish if I’m perfectly honest.
Too many bog dwellers from Mersey, Scotland etc swelling the ranks of manual labour looking for a hand out and with the bad attitude that comes with it
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@ Chris, sorry luvvie but the legacy stretches back a lot further than you may care to see. Do you pay any attention to locals with diabolical living conditions or ‘immigrants’ who are still suffering prior to the timescale you seem to quote?
Do you have any ideal sense of moral ethic when it comes to first come first served? No issues which affect locally qualified people ever seem to even scratch the surface. Which is wrong on every level. All services to protect elderly, handicapped, homeless and poor are being cut because ignorant people like yourself are too daft to see the legacy and history of catalogued failures left to local people because its all too easy to ignore that too much like hard work to solve most of it and too easy to call every one who has a valid point about how our hard earned cash is spent to call them racist GET REAL.
Do you even have an inkling of how most of these immigrants lived prior to coming here? Probably a lot worse conditions, like a lot of things if there is a system to take advantage of most of these immigrants will take full advantage because there is no chance of them getting it whence they came from. Does it not occur to you at all that by looking after people who have been here for yonks and sorting out years of mess it may ease the strain on the tax payer in the long run? No I doubt it.
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90% of school leavers opt for futher education.
shame we could not say 90% of school leavers have full employment with a future .
visa’s now.
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I agree with you Vicky!
As for immigrants being exploited….. they came here by choice and are free to move on if they are not happy. In contrast, despite the decline in living standards it is not as viable for locals and other long term residents of the island to relocate.
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I too agree with Vicki. Mark says “Why not add English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Swiss, Italian, French and Spanish, to your list to name but a few”. Good point.
In my view, Vicki’s post does not go far enough and I would endorse Marks’ suggestion that all immigrants should be looked at, whether they are from England or elsewhere. It is common sense to have regard to the small size of Jersey and the discrimination against the Jersey people which has taken hold in the last few years.
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Just remember the taxes etc etc from the immigrants keeps the pot full for the locals on benefits. They will never stop them coming here, for without them, this island would sink.
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Immigrants equals more tax and social security – they will never stop it.
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They should certainly stop non-essential J categories in the finance industry for the next few years until unemployment levels go down.
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Vicki @9
I take it from you references to ‘locally qualified’ that you too are an immigrant. Racial abuse helps nobody and certainly not you, on that I am with Chris @4. I fear you reek of inverse snobbery.
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I believe that Jersey is the most generous and philanthropic place on the planet. All those kind gentlemen of a certain age providing succour and financial support for those less fortunate than themselves and their families from as far a field as Thailand and Poland is heart warming.
The wonderful states of jersey providing housing and financial support to people the moment they step off the boat and claim poverty, asylum or abuse.
_____________________________
Yes I am a Jerseyman, Yes I have done manual labour and earnt minimum wage. I have cleaned toilets and done the best for my family during hard times. I have always paid my taxes and bills on time.
I am p!ssed off with the states spending my taxes on giving money away to free loading immigrants and spongers. And throwing money away on frivolous unnecessary cr@p and subsidising failing businesses.
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Before we point the finger at the portugese and polish, i think it is infact the english, irish, scottish, swiss, french etc who have come over to work in our “illustrious” financa industry. It is these people who have driven up house prices and cost of living, along with locals whoi rent and sell their properties at astronomical prices. Dont think we can blame a work force who have come in to be paid a minimum wage. But yet again, the usual xenophobia against those working hard is apparent in this crummy island, and usually by nthose comfortable enough not to do a days work in their lives!
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I was coming back from St Malo on the Condor to Guernsey and on the way it goes via Jersey.
Upon arrival in Jersey everybodies passports were checked and everyone had to be accounted for. If there were bags by seats and no people they were searched for. I was told this was quite common.
If you have an issue with illegal immigration it looks like they would be detected if they came by Condor.
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@ 13 – it is not about stopping immigration – its about controlling and monitoring the situation.
Immigrants keeping the pot full – A significant proportion of migrant workers are low earners and pay very little into the system – and the ones with children probably take far more out of the system than they contribute
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I am from a Portuguese background but was born in Jersey. I went to school and worked in Jersey. A lot of my friends are beans, I class my self as a bean. I even served in the British military for three years.
I remember Jersey was safe, when I was in, and came out of the military, there was always jobs for local people. Friends who were my age that went to uni came home and with ease could get summer jobs in bars banks etc or full time jobs once they graduated. During my time in finance, which started when I left the military I noticed companys were taken on people from all over the place mainland uk, polish, a few portuguese etc. I decided I needed to go back to study to be able to stay or survive in Jersey. I ended up going to university as a mature student and eventually graduated after four years of study.
During my time at uni over the summer breaks me and many others could not get jobs like we could before, why because they took people on from elsewhere. Since graduating I’ve moved from the place I once called home to the other side of the world as I could not get a job in my area which by the way is in the medical field.
Other things like the waiting lists at the hospital is high (I remember a while back I could see an orthopaedic Dr in four weeks or sometimes less, that I know is impossible now). People also abusing the A and E service. Most Immigrants I have meet at home have poor attitudes. Crime levels have risen, Im not saying its the immigration that has caused this but you look at the JEP and see the names of most people who end up in court! People living in jersey for just over five years are claiming benefits or grants to study. Im not surprised with all of this going on, immigration is one of the issues that is top of the agenda.
Where i live now there is also a lot of issues about immigration. Locals are not happy that the government allow none skilled and skilled people into the country and that they take away jobs for the locals. Im lucky as I don’t fall into this category as in my area of work there are not enough trained locals to do my job! Immigration is not just a problem in Jersey but across the world.
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The UK is currently benefitting from mass immigration, let us hope it does not happen here.
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Jesus christ people. some folks around here love to feel sorry and have need of blaming someone else. Jobs taken by ,,immigrants” or ,,them” sorry but cant agree. 5 years residency required for any job apart from hospitality. Look at Gov website how many positions are still available.no need for special education. obviously nobody likes serving drunken people and would rather been one of them. Blame goverment for not doing anything when they had time. Moaning about Polish and Portuguese is well closed minded.An the ones working for me have not taken single day off sick or any sort of benefit.Living in worse conditions before coming here?how many of mine staff have houses big enough for 3 families. many people actually turn back because of so many restrictions. and if they stay they will leave at some point due to 5 years residency restriction. Not enough jobs? close the job market or put some sort of work permits or visa like New Zealand.whos to blame now? Media are highlighting all these problems but nobody actually comments on how much people spend on drinking, how someone beats his girlfriend all those problems seems to be covered.We are being fed with what suits people above to cover other problems. Hard working Polish and others would be least of mine concerns when it comes to immigration issue. Maybe we should get situation like in London Birmingham or Liverpool maybe then people would appreciate other things.
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and yeah forgot to say- Rich gets richer, poor gets poorer works so well here. especially when working class citizen on average wage is put on 21% tax.
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#22 Overpopulated – the UK has always benefited (only one ‘t’) from mass immigration, be it from the Romans, Vikings, Jutes, Danes or Normans, we are all immigrants – I always ask the dullards in the BNP at what level someone should be considered to be British, five generations, five hundred?
Immigration tops the agenda because people allow themselves to make subjective judgements with no basis in fact. If you read the last report from Customs and Immigration you will see that we are hardly being inundated.
Frankly, I think there will come a day when we worry about enough people staying in the island.
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I cannot believe that usually sane posters on here are missing the point it does not matter who you are it’s about the volume of numbers..if you cant get in the hospital for 3 months does it really matter where those clogging up the system hail from…and the reform is being overlooked by being cross with your neighbours the States love it when we do that,”Get them distracted” then they won’t notice our hidden agenda… we need to vote for reformist politicians who will get us back to a committee system ,where we can all be truly represented as at the mo ,we are being dictated to by a C.O.M. who clearly favour bankers and developers ,they then spend wildly and couldn’t care less as they can just Tax us more to pay for it…wake up peeps it’s the system that’s wrong not the workers….!
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Any self respecting Jerseyman, joey, 21, who calls himself a ‘bean’ must be half baked.
Talk about a self lowering term. No wonder all the smart @rsed immigrants from the mainland treat locals with contempt. Their job is already half done for them. Give youself a capital J as well, I’m sure the military didn’t teach you to have low self esteem!
Congratulations on doing well despite the bean lark. Make sure eveyone knows you are a jerseyman!
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I currently work in the fiance industry, and the floor below me is like the United Nations. It is now very hard to phone someone for assistance, and actually understand what they are saying. I feel very sorry for all the school leavers etc who haven’t got a hope in getting a job in an the finance industry (lucky them many would say) as the priority, especially in my workplace, is to employ foreigners.
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No one can blame any immigrant for trying to get a better deal for themselves, most of us have or would have done a similar thing.
I think that Vicky`s frustration lies with the fact that the immigration here is utterluncontrolled, the infrastructure in Jersey cannot take anymore, a spokesman for one of the Islands largest Developers said “the use of cheaper immigrant labour will reflect in affordable housing
” utter garbage!, where is the evidence of this?
The immigrant labour used in this Island is for the sole purpose of larger profit.
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The usual racist diatribe from Vicki, not sure you know what racist means – try a dictionary or a mirror. “there is more racial abuse towards local people than anyone else”. Really, sweeping statement, how so please explain. You enjoy a privelaged position of being born on paradise island with the right to buy or rent anything from the time you start work, that gave you a 20 year head start on me, 20 yrs for my quals.
Oh the poor impoverished locals, bet you don’t refuse service in the supermarket or restaurant from an immigrant.
Most immigrants I know work hard and keep their heads down, it’s the lazy locals that are draining the system, social housing, milking the social and on the rare ocassion when they work doing as little as possible.
Luvvie look up racism, I do not think it means what you think it means, to quote that fella off the cartoon.
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@ C Le Verdic.
I am a BEAN and bloody proud of it. Take a good look at yourself before posting such utter drivel.
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It’s all to late to debate, they should bring in with immediate effect something that will help to assist controlling and monitoring the situation.
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I think most peoples issues is not where people come from but:
1. Volume of immigration
2. Lack of background/police checks
3. COM and States liberal handouts to anyone who has spent 5 minutes on the ferry (or kayak) to get here.
4. Lack of co-ordinated policy – do we NEED these people with 1500 unemployed already here
5. Lack of enforcement of the JCAT and Regulation of Undertaking rules.
And most of all.
Lack of COM’s concern or want to change. TLS said the net migration was within tolerable parameters – you can tell he was an accountant – more than 1 and less than a billion seems to be the states parameter on everything from budgets to overspends to the amount of GST we will be paying next year.
All they seem to want to do is ensure that a steady supply of properties will be bought to keep the house prices buoyant and the developers and themselves in the readies.
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@28 and @29 – Spot on.
the COM kow-towing to the dollar and the pound as the only religion they know.
Profit margins and their own pockets.
Cheap labour = Bigger profit margins.
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Jersey is an island of immigrants and sadly has treated the majority of these “immigrants” in a dreadful way due to the very unfair housing restrictions. if a person comes to the island to work and pays their taxes and social security to the island then they should have a right to rent/buy any property they can afford. Discuss…..
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Mark #2 & Chris #4
Anyone who is British is not an immigrant in the sense that one would normally associate that term with. We are a British Island and Jersey born persons hold British passports anyone who’s British has always been able to enter the Island and job market without any great difficulty.
The issue that has now arisen is that the locally born population is now in the minority in their land of birth. More than 50% of the population at the last census were not born in Jersey. The change of policy by our government which allowed any member of an EU country to come and work in Jersey almost unregulated is what causes resentment in Jersey much the same as it dose in many other countries when unfettered immigration is allowed to go unchecked.
What makes this doubly annoying is the fact that many Jersey born persons with no British grandparents or lineage have stamped in our passports that we are not entitled to work or live in the EU. In reality many of us do just that but legally we are marked as not entitled and this arrangement was agreed by our politicians. What government in their right mind would treat their indigenous population in this way?
I don’t think any reasonable person blames anyone from Poland, Portugal or anywhere else from trying to do better for themselves but, when this starts to prevent our children from gaining good jobs and prospects because our millionaire government want a pool of cheap labour it’s time to kick them out.
For example I have it on good authority that of the 200 employees that are employed by one of the biggest on-line retailers in Britain that is based here in Jersey 150 of them are from Eastern Europe. 90% of these individuals are on minimum wage and wont likely qualify to pay tax , all so the two millionaires who own the company ( Registered elsewhere of course so no tax paid by this company) can enjoy their 7 million pound bonus they enjoyed last year.
What value does this arrangement bring to Jersey? Not much that I can see but in 5 years time 150 employees from this company will all qualify for a hole host of benefits paid to those on low incomes.
GST rise anyone?
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“…they should bring in with immediate effect something that will help to assist controlling and monitoring the situation.” FB (No. 32)
I’m not sure where FB was last month (on holiday?) but the States passed the most important legislation for generations that will enable it to MONITOR every individual in every household and to share that information amongst all public authorities for the purposes of detecting petty crimes and chasing up people who owe taxes or social security, amongst other things.
Unfortunately, as for CONTROLLING people coming into the island, it was admitted immediately before the States debate by Senator Sarah Ferguson (Chairman of the Corporate Services, Migration and Population Sub-Panel which conducted Scrutiny on the proposals) that the new law would not actually do this. However many of the 46/47 States Members who approved these measures will soon be trying to convince electors to the contrary…
For more information, read my comments at No.s 30, 31, 38, 40 and 41 here:
http://www.thisisjersey.com/2011/07/07/registration-cards-for-work-and-housing/
Or No.s 73, 86 and 88 here:
http://www.thisisjersey.com/2011/07/05/housing-new-rules-for-us-all/
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@Vicki,
Vicki you make me laugh, I can’t help thinking you would look like Muvva of Biffer Bacon fame, from the comic Viz.
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Vicki
I have two things to say to you:
1. go and vote (but register first, I bet you didnt bother, now did you?); or, alternatively
2. move somewhere else.
10 years in next year, happy days. We will be on equal footing (almost). That’s 10 years of hard work, paying taxes and contributing to the island’s economy. Oh, and last five on private health insurance so that people like you can enjoy one day less on the waiting list to the hospital consultants. I think you owe me a big thank you.
Wish you all the very best for your not-so-happy-and-full-of-frustration life.
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38; You in turn make me laugh; I should think that you would resemble something like a cross between Cedric Soft from the Bacon story and Mr Logic, although you would not appear to have the intellect of the latter.
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I am Jersey born and have now been unemployed for three years prior to working in the finance industry because of overpopulation no matter what the nationality.
And yes I have a professional work ethic, have washed dishes and cleaned toilets in the past but refuse to work for the same wage I was receiving twenty years ago now I have a family to support.
I would rather have gainful employment that be in receipt of Income support but the simple fact is that their is very little work available and being Jersey and/or possessing A/H qualifications seem to put you at a distinct disadvantage.
Their are more than four thousand people unemployed within Jersey if you take into account those that are in full time education at Highlands College and those who are in receipt of long or short term invalidity/incapacity benefit as opposed to seeking advice from a supposed job coach on how to find employment that will never be attainable unless the States of Jersey close the borders immediately to all nationalities, epecially those from the EU; we as an island did not request such large scale immigration, that was Blaire’s grand plan.
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There are so many hypocrites on this forum it is laughable!!
All you non-natives of Jersey who show nothing but contempt and arrogance towards your hosts…..take a long hard look at yourselves and ask yourselves why you are here!!
Is it perhaps because your own place of birth has an immigration problem??
Is it because you have a better standard of living here than you would at “home”?
Do you applaud the uncontrolled immigration into your homeland which has restricted your own standard of living there and perhaps “forced” you overseas to seek work?
Don’t you despise it when these immigrants show you no respect and don’t realise how much better they have have it now…..otherwise why else are they there?
In a great majority of countries which suffer uncontrolled immigration there are rising tensions…..take a look at USA, SA….even the UK is a bomb waiting to go off! I’m well aware that some parts of Poland have a Xenophobic issue….witnessed first hand might I add. None of your or your compatriots are free of blame….therefore you are HYPOCRITES!
Now, again, take a look at yourselves and how you are acting towards your host island.
You CHOSE to come here, nobody forced you to come (although you may have been forced out of your country one way or another)…….so why the hostility to your hosts???!!!
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41, Shane Surely if you are/were “unemployed for three years prior to working in the finance industry” then you must now be employed!?
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Its not the origin its the quantity.Jersey is only 9 by 5 miles.The quality of life for every class of people is deteriating on a small overcrowded island and, as is becoming apparent,a huge amount of resentment is building between rich and poor, foreign and local.Some of the most resentful comments i have heard have been from older immigrants against the latest influx of cheap East Europeans.
Controlled immigration works,mass uncontrolled immigration doesn’t,it just builds up bigger problems for the next generation to deal with.
Yet again the problem lies with our government.Because of our 0/10 tax structure the tax burden has been taken off businesses and placed on the individual,therefore the States want as many people here as possible paying ITIS.With our infrastucture already creaking at the seams after just a few years of recent mass immigration,lack of affordable housing,a decline in living standards for everyone and rising tempers it won’t be long before social unrest kicks in.Sad thing is,as a small island this could all so easily have been avoided by controlling immigration and getting the wealthy to pay a more reasonable tax rate.
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I have two teenagers who have managed to find jobs pretty easily this Summer.
Could I afford to support their Summer spending – I suppose so, up to a point. Instead I make them get out of bed, off their backsides and find a job. Both are grafting in Hospitality related jobs for various hours per week.
There are jobs available if people are prepared to work and all this garbage about immigrants taking jobs – most small business owners (and many of the larger ones) would love local staff – they know customers prefer it and many issues with 5 year residency become null and void. The work ethic is obviously a deciding factor.
The issue is (and even my kids have noticed) is that there is an culture of “blame someone else” for all woes and not enough time doing something about it.
Some of you need to put down your computer, stop ranting and use the vitriolic energy expended here.
Vicky – needs to spend more time actually considering someone else’s opinion even if she eventually discounts it. We can all swallow a Psychology dictionary but bitterness becomes a cancer.
17.
The wonderful states of jersey providing housing and financial support to people the moment they step off the boat and claim poverty, asylum or abuse
Load of twaddle – please give an example?? Not giving out benefits like the Uk to all and sundry has actually protected the island – it could be a lot worse, we only have to turn the telly on tonight to see what too much time on your hands in a benefit culture does to the fabric of society.
Rant over!
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#27 C Le Verdic.
Woah, you need to chill out! I’m a Bean, of Norman & Breton blood, with tons of self respect, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s like a Scouser being from Liverpool, or a Cockney being from east London, a Bean is from Jersey. The term bean was never meant as an insult to Jersey born people. You have a hang up you really need to get over, and this comes from one bean to another! Do you prefer crapaud? I certainly don’t! My mates who have chosen Jersey as their home, consider themselves beans once they have their quallies. Of course theres the odd bit if banter, but that’s life, and us beans need to give as good as we get, but in good humour.
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Jersey needs to wake up and see what is happening with other countries.
From SKY NEWS comments.
London and to a lesser extent our other large towns and cities have suffered immigration on a huge scale, part of Labour’s plan to change the country for ever. They have succeeded. London is in many parts a Third World cess-pit simply full of ignorant people whose instincts ,due to lack of parenting and different cultural values, direct them towards criminality. The police are unable to use appropriate force because they are bound by political correctness. This is the future. Immigrants and their numerous offspring will, I prophesy, bring this country to its knees. There is much more trouble ahead. I wonder when the backlash from the decent majority will begin? What will it take? The soft Liberals and apologists for failed multiculturalism must be swept away first.
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@30 Pot Kettle Black
“…not sure you know what racist means – try a dictionary…”
I think it is you, and a number of others, who don’t seem to know what the word racist means.
There are three definitions for the word racism in my dictionary.
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Claiming (hypothetically I stress) that a person is sick and tired of “all the blacks coming here taking our jobs” is not a racist comment. It doesn’t mean that the commentor hates black people or thinks they they are a superior race to them. It is simply an expression of frustration with a perceived unfairness. Vicki was, in my opinion, doing just that. I did not read hate against the immigrants in her comment, only anger at the States.
Ironically, racism is actually nurtured by a failure of governments to deal with such perceived unfairness. This can be seen in the UK where the governments policy failure has led to an increase in BNP membership. If they had dealt with the issues properly the BNP would not be attracting ever increasing membership.
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Precisely,#31.
When I look at myself I see a proud but modest Jerseyman.
I would never bring myself to use that pathetic name, which came into use round about the time when Jersey started losing its soul.
Believe me, the adoption of ‘bean’has not done its adherents any favours. Just look at the way the mainland immigrants who would happily push you off the edge of your own island use it in such a derisory manner towards you.
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truthseeker, you comment about people on here not gettin gthe point. Ever thought that it is perhaps you?
Something most of us have realised for a VERY long time.
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8. MeinGott – As someone born and bred in Liverpool – I find your tag of ‘bog dwellers’ very offensive. Maybe you have never been to Liverpool, there are many lovely places to visit. Do not tar all scousers with the same brush – many hard working and successful people hail from Liverpool. I have lived in Jersey for 35 years and done a variety of jobs from chambermaid/waitress to my present job in the Finance Industry. I have many friends and family in Jersey who were born in Liverpool, they are all employed locally and many have bought their own homes. So please keep your narrow minded comments to yourself -don’t judge the majority by the minority.
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I’m with Vicki on this one, stick to your guns girl.
And good posts from Bonkers 36 and Parktown Prawn 42, the phrase ‘social unrest’ is something we can all feel brewing in the island.
A lot of these immigrants put nothing into our society and are quite happy to take take take, with a house paid off back in their own country whilst scrounging in mine.
And Delta 25 your comment ‘If you read the last report from Customs and Immigration you will see that we are hardly being inundated’ shows your usual blinkered views, please explain to me how customs are taking into account all of the ‘out of the rib/kayak straight into waiting van arrivals?’ Do these people then go to immigration to keep the stats correct?
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47 – totally correct. And what have our government done here – mass immigration, human rights and benefits and housing for babies – replicated the disasterous policies of the UK.
Let us hope we do not get the same results.
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“More than 50% of the population at the last census were not born in Jersey.” – bonkers (36).
A potentially very good post here but spoiled by this obvious mistake, not to mention a lack of sources. In the census of 2001, 53% of the resident population was Jersey-born. The source is on page 2 here:
http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%202001Census%2020021022%20SU.pdf
I believe the Jersey-born population will continue this upward trend when the 2011 results are released. It doesn’t mean we don’t have an immigration problem. It just means the immigrants who have settled here are now having Jersey-born children, encouraged to do so by a vastly-improved package of benefits for Jersey parents over the last decade (example: the introduction of free nursery education in 2009 at a cost of approx £1.5 million p.a.).
The really worrying aspect is the potential number of residentially-qualified Jersey emigres who may decide to return from abroad. A report by Mark Boleat last year estimated this number at 18,000 (including partners and dependants) and forecasts that the number returning will rise from the present 140-150 “to well over 200 a year – together with around 100 dependants – and perhaps significantly more.” Source is page 62 here:
http://www.boleat.com/materials/jerseys_population_a_history_mark_boleat_2010.pdf
However, these estimates above were calculated BEFORE last month’s decision by the States to fund long-term residential care for the elederly from 2013. Returning Jersey emigres would only have to satisfy a 12-month prior residency qualification before qualifying to have their care costs funded. It is a huge population boom waiting to happen…
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Laughed really hard at some of the comments on here in response to my observations and many other like minded folks. I have friends of many walks of life. They enrich my life they do
I laughed enough harder when I saw another comment @45.. hypocrisy in its highest form. You need to look at all the problems in this Island and digest the fact that adding more exhaustion does not counteract years of neglect on any account. Look at our hospital for example and social housing. I bet you stick your fingers in your ears when people try to give you an opinion that doesn’t just apply to ‘which dress to wear’ or ‘what will people think’, some of us have worked our asses off for years luv.
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In 15 or 20 years, on present trends, there will be in this island several tens of thousands more immigrants and their descendants. That is not my figure.
There is no comparable official figure for the year 2020, but it must be in the region of fifty to seventy thousand. Whole areas and parts of town across the island will be occupied by sections of the immigrant and immigrant-descended population.
It is this fact which creates the extreme urgency of action now, of just that kind of action which is hardest for politicians to take, action where the difficulties lie in the present but the evils to be prevented or minimised lie several parliaments ahead.
The natural and rational first question with a nation confronted by such a prospect is to ask: “How can its dimensions be reduced?” Granted it be not wholly preventable, can it be limited, bearing in mind that numbers are of the essence: the significance and consequences of an alien element introduced into a country or population are profoundly different according to whether that element is 1 per cent or 10 per cent.
The answers to the simple and rational question are equally simple and rational: by stopping, or virtually stopping, further inflow, and by promoting the maximum outflow.
We must be mad, literally mad, as an island to be permitting the annual inflow of some thousands of dependants, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant-descended population. It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.
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Dear ‘Best’
I have visited Liverpool, along with most major cities in the UK. As may be apparent, I didn’t like it all that much. Same with everywhere in the UK. If it helps, you may wish to know that I generally do not like the English/Welsh/Scottish or Irish – unfortunately Merseyside just happened to be my singled out target of choice in this instance.
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I had in mind that Jersey beans were only to be find around St Ouen!!! lol
French, German, English have also a massive problem with immigration, and immigrants gets treated much better than here.None of that serious discrimination.
Immigration is worldwide, same as the recession.
If retail, banks and tourism were the same as 5 year ago , nobody would give a monkey about the immigrants, and most of the wealthier would be more than happy to keep exploiting them.
All immigrants are different, same as locales, some work , some milk the system.
Now the recession kicks in, you blame the ones who had to wait 5 years to get a proper job and 20 years to get a decent flat. Locales, always been privileged, so what s next? a yellow star on their jacket and the right to spit on them because you are a locale ?
Every nation is represented in Jersey, I always knew it as a big melting pot and the only problem to my eyes is unemployment,not immigration.
I have to admit that there is a lot of polish now, as much as Portuguese or french previously. And because Jersey can get away with everything, there should be nothing to stop them to say: We have 5000 polish now, and we cannot take any more.
Being on a small Island, I would think that controlling immigration, specially when you have to come by plane or boat would be more than easy…
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No 30 – excellent letter. I totally agree with you.
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Have you ever listened to the drunken rants of the Glaswegians? It’s far easier to understand Polish people than them.
Also, Polish immigrants don’t have chips on their shoulders and an immature hatred of the English. Give me the Poles over the Scots everyday of the week
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what Jersey needs is choice – immigrants don’t arrive and immediately create new jobs – local employers (be they a long standing local company or not) employ the immigrants normally because “locals” are not prepared or not capable of taking those jobs – immigrants are not always paid less than locals and not all suffer poor accommodation – the states also need to employ immigrants as the general hospital for example could not operate without bringing in professionals from abroad – so the choice for jersey should be there, just a shame it hasn’t the choice to throughout “society wasters”
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Those who advocate without mandate social engineering and unchecked immigration have no knowledge of the damage which is being done to the island, for they have not the intellectual capacity and political wherewithal to perceive it. One word they know. “Racialist,” they chant. Until a new immigration Bill is passed, the island is on a path to social and civil unrest of a type which only this week is seen in the united kingdom.
The other dangerous delusion from which those who are wilfully or otherwise blind to realities suffer, is summed up in the word “integration.” To be integrated into a population means to become for all practical purposes indistinguishable from its other members. History will disclose that self isolated and socially exclusive cells of immigrant units wilfully defeats that end.
The commentator “Vicki” is correct in her analysis of the situation. The inevitable attempts to stifle her expression of free speech are only to be expected and are a symptom of what is set out above. Those who pillory the loudest are almost certainly the emptiest and most vacuous vassels of flawed leftist thought.
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The are currently 170 jobs on the gov.je website alone and over 10 new additions evey day. Dosen’t look like there’s no jobs to me.
How many ‘beans’ are simply sponging off the states whilst these ‘immigrants’ do all the jobs they’d consider below them. Why don’t you get off your @rses and put some effort in instead of moaning and blaming the easy target.
It’s basic population growth, it’s happening eveywhere, the world is not getting any bigger.
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The answers to the simple and rational question are equally simple and rational: by stopping, or virtually stopping, further inflow, and by promoting the maximum outflow. That is what this and other surveys shows. It appears to constitute the will of the Jersey people.
We must be mad, literally mad, as an island to be permitting the annual inflow of some thousands of dependants, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant-descended population. It is like watching the states busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre. The weak and the callow rule this island with their liberal hand wringing at the expense of the Jersey men, women and children. The symtoms of that are to be found in some of the discriminatory remarks which appear on this thread and which seek to denigrate the indigenous and displaced jersey born populace. The tide is, thank the lord, beginning to turn at long last after years of darkness and disenfranchisement for the jersey people.
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Jerry Gosselin #54
My data was not from the 2001 census. There was an article in the JEP about 3 years ago which gave a figure of the locally born population now standing at 48%.
I cant find that article but clearly remember the figures from that time, however to be frank 50-53% who gives a damn, immigration at that level in any community/Island/country is not acceptable to any local population as it has the potential to change the whole culture of an environment from that wanted and in use by the local population to that of the incoming immigrants.
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60, Sandy,
Amazing, you sport one very common Scottish name, with your racist attitude, you should really change it!
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66; How can it be “racist” to speak of the scottish when they are the same race as we are? This illustrates how the “r” word has become misused and thrown around in the most childish way. It is just a word, not a silly trump card. Most people have heard enough of it to last a lifetime. It is a nonentity and the hallmark of a weak argument and equally flaccid intellect.
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60
Why do the Scottish,Welsh,and Irish not like the English? The French and many other countries don’t
like them either.
I would love to know as I have many friends from these places and I don’t think they know either.
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60, Sandy,
Yes, you with the Jock name.
Believe me, as a person who has been all over the World, the English are the most despised Nation on God`s Earth.
Ask anyone on the Continent, in fact, closer to home will suffice, the Irish, Scottish, and aspessially the Welsh hate you.
You are seen as a weak, pathetic race, where the rest of the World send thier unwanted, so they can take all your money and laugh at you.
The French are laughing loudest!
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For years the states maintained that the population was 80-85k.. then all opf a sudden it was 95k. Now 10 years after the last census they STILL believe this figure – because that is the ‘Official’ figure.
ALL the states policies are based on outdated facts – which sometimes are questionable at best depending on their source – and then add a good dose of spin and hey presto they get what they want regardless.
A friend of mine working in the states and maintains that it is a shambles and the data used is based on figures going back to the 90′s and that managers frequently base decisions on assumptions and out dated information and one has even been seen looking up information from a book.
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68 Bella –
Why do the Scottish,Welsh,and Irish not like the English? The French and many other countries don’t
like them either.
I would love to know as I have many friends from these places and I don’t think they know either.
And 69 Beanie –
Yes, you with the Jock name.
Believe me, as a person who has been all over the World, the English are the most despised Nation on God`s Earth.
Ask anyone on the Continent, in fact, closer to home will suffice, the Irish, Scottish, and aspessially the Welsh hate you.
You are seen as a weak, pathetic race, where the rest of the World send thier unwanted, so they can take all your money and laugh at you.
The French are laughing loudest!
The English are hated close to home
( Scotland, Ireland & Wales ) because we owned them, we still own Northern Ireland, we are hated further afield because we owned most of the world also. We taught many countries how to read, trade, feed their inhabitants. The French hate us because we didn’t lie down and surrender when the Krauts came knocking, we were and still are a world superpower.
That’s why we are hated, also re Scottish, Irish, Welsh – we tend to qualify for world sporting events, anyone remember the last Welsh world cup team?
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I think arrogance is why they are not liked. It’s the old colonial instinct. “Brits” abroad always cause trouble. There is a massive chip on the shoulder and a misplaced sense of entitlement wherever they go; it seems particularly prominent among those who come to Jersey and start moaning as soon as they come here.
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bonkers (38) Thank you for your response. Agree almost totally, except as an islander of Norman decent I would claim that whilst the Chanel Isles are part of Great Britton, we Normans beat the English at the battle of Hastings in 1066. Dear King John then lost most of Normandy in 1204, hence the economic migrants for England as immigrants when they come to my island.
I am increasingly of the opinion that we Jerseymen would be better off as part of the EU with that endorsement on our passports removed.
It is far too late to bolt the stable door now, we are a minority on our own island and have been for years.
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English Bob, yes you with the English Bob name; 1966 was quite a while ago. And the war wouldn’t have happened if Neville Chamberlain hadn’t gone grovelling to Hitler and allowing Germany to arm (the French were particularly appalled at that) so I don’t think you can talk about success there. If the English have to keep on about the isolated 1966 sporting victory then they really haven’t got all that much to write home about, have they?
And as for “owning” Derry, come on, grow up, eh?!
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My little boy tried to talk to some children at Parade Park. Not one of them spoke English.
That is the real problem in this island. People not bothering to learn the native language.
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Listen to you all…..grow up!
It’s pathetic……and none of your arguments are relevant anymore.
How many people were alive during the great wars?
Not many left and yet people still hate those from somewhere else!
It’s not just those from different countries, but even those from within a country…..scousers hate mancs, geordies hate mackems, all other parishes dislike St Ouenies…..;-)
You even have idiotic gangs of (usually) kids who hate other people within their own region…..hating those from another street or housing estate!
It seems to be human nature to hate everybody ….. which is very sad and pathetic!
Just get on with your own lives and try and make the best of them….you’re a long time dead!
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71
It wasn’t a history lesson I wanted to know,but now we are on about history you claimed the English owned most of the world, true.but i
believe that most countries were taken by force and cruelty.
Now that wouldn’t be the reason would it?
Yeah you still own northern Ireland,but most of the other countries have gained independence.
Very few countries in the British commonwealth wish to remain in it.
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Never heard of all other parishes disliking St Ouen people. That sounds like a bit of nonsence to me.
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‘Very few countries in the British commonwealth wish to remain in it.’
Bella, you might be surprised to learn that some people from former colonies say that life was better for them before independence. I’m quoting indiginous people, not British colonialists.
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Bonkers (No. 65): point taken but personally I don’t place as much trust in these government-produced annual statistics as I do in the ten-yearly census, the latter being far more reliable in my opinion because everyone is supposed to be included in that count.
“The are currently 170 jobs on the gov.je website alone and over 10 new additions evey day.” – observer (63).
Someone makes a crass observation like this virtually every month on this website. I have done several spot checks of Job Centre vacancies over the last 2 decades designed to highlight that in reality, there are far fewer vacancies than this for the typical job-seeker. My last survey was back in February, prompted by similar comments to yours in relation to a report about unemployment hitting a new high.
On the day I did my spot check, the jobsinjersey website declared 102 vacancies, but after subtracting duplicates, this dropped to 93. Of that 93, about 45% were vacancies not restricted to those with 5 years residence (mainly hospitality) where traditionally, most employers only recruit foreign EEA nationals (bonkers’ post at no. 36 above highlights one very well-known fulfilment company where the majority of the staff are Poles).
Because it is very difficult in practice for locals to compete with Poles for these low-paid jobs (not to mention impractical for many, particularly single parents, because of the excessive and unsociable hours), I deducted them from the total, leaving a figure of just 51 available ‘locals only’ vacancies on that day in February at a time when there were more than 1,300 officially unemployed and many others on top also looking for work.
Unfortunately, of those 51 remaining local vacancies, many that I noted were jobs requiring highly-specialist qualifications or experience which the average job-seeker would not possess, amongst which were several teaching posts, an Executive Officer position at States Planning, another top States position with a starting salary of £66k, an experienced welder/steel erector position etc.
So in reality, the average jobseeker would be very lucky if there were a dozen realistic ‘local’ vacancies to apply for each week, unless he/she wanted to try competing with the Poles for minimum wage seasonal work. Not good, is it?
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Never mind where you’re from….you are too many.
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77 Bella
Where did you get the idea that only a few of the countries of the Commonwealth wish to remain in it?
Membership is voluntary and every country can leave at will. Others would like to join. Mozambique (a former Portugese colony) joined in 1995 and Rwanda (a former Belgian Trust country, ex German colony) in 2009. Since 1996, Algeria and Madagascar have applied. Cambodia applied in 1997 but was rejected as it did not meet the necessary requirements.
Other countries that have expressed an interest are Angola, DR Congo, East Timor, Georgia, Sudan, South Sudan, Yemen and Japan.
The only countries to leave are Eire (1949 and Zimbabwe in 2003. Others have left but then returned.
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Oh dear, it appears #60 Sandy has ruffled some feathers!
Some of the nicest people I’ve ever met in Jersey originated from Scotland. Unfortunately, also originating from Scotland has been the most confrontational and aggressive people I’ve ever met in Jersey.
It’s a lovely country Scotland, but the Scots themselves a strange bunch
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Jerry Gosselin #80
Good post and my gut feeling is that your figures are pretty well near the mark.
Many of the States of Jersey advertised posts are already spoken for before they ever reach the advert pages I know this for a fact having observed this behaviour in my department.
There are to many of our children now abandoned by our government in the cause of cheap labour pools available from the EU an organisation we are not even a member of.
We need a government of the people for the people, not a government of the rich for the rich.
Lets hope come election time there are candidates who will stop the inflow of immigration at least until our economy has stabilised and our children can get decently paid employment.
Make your vote count come election time.
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Ahhh! the camp goings on that appear daily on these pages!
The need to constantly tell everyone im a “JERSEYMAN” or a bean shows up the sort of level we are reading here.
Its the lords blessing!that we have an influx of different races and backgrounds,if only to smash down the ignorance of people,running round claiming its there island and how hard ive worked etc etc.
There are a lot of mixed race Jersey kids now.
An interesting observation to hear how there so intelligent compared to what has been before.
Honsestly,whatever your background,theres no reason to say im a JERSEYMAN with every second sentence,its embarassing!
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Interesting comments about the different nationalities in Jersey.
Unfortunately, the calibre of immigrants to Jersey (from all countries) has, apart from J categories, been influenced by Jersey’s housing laws.
Jersey has reaped what it sowed
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82, Nigel Pearce.
Bella is not far off the mark.
Ask most Aussies, and Canadians in thier own country, these are important countries, (one Continent) actually, and they could not give a toss about the Commonweath, more so Australia.
As for Mozambique, Rwanda, Algeria, Madagascar, Cambodia, Angola, Congo, East Timor, Georgia, Sudan and Yemen, you must be having a laugh!, who would want all these problems?
These Countries would only be in it for what they could get out of it.
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Lets stop Jersey men buying Thai brides whilst were at it.
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Bonkers (84) & Jerry Gosselin (80) Re: Jobs
You are both all too correct. Remember that with every internal promotion everybody has to move up one. Hence a single vacancy can generate a hose of job adverts. As a civil service manager/employer with a large workforce, this was the bane of my life as I knew exactly who I was going to promote. It was just an HR merry-go-round and paper chase.
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The real problem is our little Island is just that little there is only so much you can put into a 45 sq mile space whether people or buildings what i dont like is the fact after 40 odd years in employment the minute i was out of work i could not receive one penny income support because i had a low rent after all the years of paying tax etc: and yet i see school leavers and new people to the Island receiving benefit who have not contributed into the system for any length of time
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85, “Its the lords blessing!that we have an influx of different races and backgrounds,”
Dunno what planet you’re on, mate, but that sounds like a load of wind to me (the name you posted is spot on there). You are obviously one of those wallies who is always saying how “enriched” we are by other cultures- try telling that to those people in england whose shops have just been looted. Jersey people are jersey people; it’s their island-if you don’t like it, don’t stay.
It’s a small island and we don’t want anyone else coming in an buggering it up for the local people.
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Mark, what is a “hose of job adverts”? Is it something to do with the fire service?
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86; “Unfortunately, the calibre of immigrants to Jersey (from all countries) has, apart from J categories, been influenced by Jersey’s housing laws.
Jersey has reaped what it sowed”
I agree. Jersey should never have allowed any immigration. The housing laws would not have been required had that been the case. The “calibre of immigrants” which we now have would not be here if such a law had been in place.
We should learn from that and put a law in place now. QUICKLY.
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I’m a scottish person. I moved there four months ago from London and now I’m a scotsman. I’ve even bought the kilt. I am working on the accent and the traditional parsimony.
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87 Beanie
I don’t think you read my post properly.
Mozambique and Rwanda are already members of the Commonwealth. Since 1994, Rwanda has started to make English the primary language to replace French.
I didn’t say the Commonwealth would allow these other countries to join although I would expect Angola to stand a good chance as Mozambique has already been accepted
As I wrote, membership is voluntary and Australia and Canada have not withdrawn.
There are at least 54 countries in the Commonwealth.
Eire left in 1949, as at that time, republics were not allowed to be members.
I’m sorry but bella is way off the mark, I’m not having a laugh.
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For the well off and business community, immigration is not really a problem. They own their houses, send their children to private schools, have private healthcare etc, so the problems that immigration cause i.e. housing shortages, large class sizes, hospital waiting lists do not affect them. For many of them, immigration is also an opportunity to make more money from their businesses and properties.
The States (mainly comprising of the well off and business community) had to convince middle Jersey that the were trying to curtail immigration – hence the not fit for purpose housing laws. These were a means of creating an impression that something was being done about immigration while at the same time allowing a constant increase in the population.
If Jersey had ever been serious about immigration, it would have immigration laws not housing laws.
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I’m a Welsh person. I moved there four months ago from London and now I’m a welchman. I’ve even bought the shepherd’s crook and milking stool. I am working on the accent and the traditional dislike of holiday gites.
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92 ‘Mark, what is a “hose of job adverts”? Is it something to do with the fire service?’
You could ask the same about the housing ladder and greasy poles.
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The Channel Islands are part of the Common Travel Area of the UK for immigration and nationality purposes. So although we aren’t part of the UK or the EU for all other purposes, it’s different for immigration purposes. All EU passport holders are free to enter and work in the Channel Islands.
But Guernsey and Jersey have different housing laws and that’s the key difference. In Guernsey, immigration is controlled by housing licences. If an immigrant is not granted a housing licence as an essential employee then unless they have a bona fide relationship with a locally qualified partner, then they can only live in Guernsey if they occupy one of around 1800 open market properties (for which prices to rent or buy are about double the equivalent property on the local market). Market forces therefore make such properties unaffordable for low income immigrants. Immigrants can come from all over the EU but if they can’t earn enough to live on the open market then they are priced out of staying. By contrast in Jersey you have a huge “bedsit” industry which positively encourages large numbers of low income immigrants.
It’s really as simple as that.
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99, Guern, just as a matter of interest, do you get all the moaning minnies from England in your island as well, going on about how they were forced to stay for “x years” before being allowed to buy? It would be interesting to know whether your superior immigration laws act to prevent that kind of abuse.
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The rest of the world do not like English because they cannot behave passed 11.00pm.
They tend to wear socks with their sandals and have the habit of turning pink or red depending on the consumption of sun and beers.
That s why they are called Roastbeef in France.
No comment on the cockiness of the football fans looking at the results from the English team.
Shooting and fighting doesn’t score goals.
Neither a Italian coach who do not speak english. lol What a desperate move …
England would not be what it is today if they didn’t try to take over the world.
Invading countries, importing (stealing) all sorts of goods including slaves is not the best way to make friends.
Typical of a big powerful country to moan about immigration after they went to tear a part their country of origin.
The ones most affected by England should be the one still playing crickets today.
Now England cannot help themselves anymore, with factories moved to China , there is not much left to trade. The future rely on finance, and the future is not bright. Soon China will be importing cheap labor from the Uk. lol
If you do not like French, Portuguese or Polish , you should have picked up your potatoes yourselves…
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95,Nigel Pearce.
Rwanda, Mozambique, yuo must be having a laugh, who in thier right mind would entertain these people, face it, the U.K. could not even defend themselves.
And whether you accept it or not is irrelevant to me, but the demise of the U.K. is down to one man, namely, ex Prime Minister Tony Blair, the worst Prime Minister the U.K. ever had.
Our once proud Nation is now gone forever.
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Moaning beans, if you don’t like it there’s a boat in the morning.
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You can say what you like about the British but it’s because of them you are allowed to say these things.
They might not export a lot these days but they did export democracy.
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People don’t like success, hence the reason the rest of the world don’t like England.
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103, 104 and 105 are posted by the same person. The content is inflammatory and accordingly best ignored.
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Oh dear. Troll alert at 103 to 105 above. Avoid engaging or responding.
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102 Mona Lot
I don’t understand what you are trying to say about Mozambique and Rwanda being in the Commonwealth.
It has nothing to do with Tony Bliar and any state of the UK.
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#96 Dave
Your last line is one I agree with 100%
As a Jersey born resident, I’ve come to the conclusion that our housing quallies system doesn’t work, especially with regards to rental properties. We can’t stop people getting off a ferry and then finding a bedsit to rent, but we can stop them if they are refused the right to stay or work here. That will force the unwanted residents to leave, not the system we currently have in place
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Sarah (100)
Not really.
Time spent living in open market property (ie without a local housing licence) does not count towards local housing qualifications unless you came here as a child of an open market resident (in which case 20 years seems to be the qualification period although that’s under pressure). Others who come here on the open market must remain in open market property and the open market property register is effectively closed. Give or take a couple of exceptions, the register of open market properties has remained the same since the late 1960s at around 1800 properties.
Local market housing licences are typically granted for specific jobs for either 9 months (seasonal workers who must then leave the island for 3 months before another will be issued to them and that absence means that their residency period is broken so that they aren’t building up rights), or for 3 years (which might be extended at the end to 5 years), or for 5 years (which might be extended to 7 years). And then there are 15-year licences which are typically granted only to doctors, dentists, teachers who are heads of department, and to professionals who have invested substantially into a professional partnership (ie have become partners in a firm, having invested several hundred thousand pounds to buy in).
The States are well aware that after 7 years of local market residency under a licence it is probably the case that the individual could take them to Strasbourg to claim local status. The current strategy is therefore aimed at preventing licencees getting past 7 years. Some of course do get past that point by marrying locals, and children of local licensees do acquire rights after 15 years, but fundamentally outsiders either come here for a stated period as per their licence, or they can come for an indefinite period on the open market but never acquire local rights. But if they live on the open market they are paying the open market premium and if they can’t afford it or if there is nowhere available then that’s it – they can’t stay because they can’t occupy local market property even if they owned it. They know the rules when they come here. We just don’t have the situation whereby say 10 years living in a bedsit could create local housing rights like you have in Jersey, because the bedsit regime doesn’t exist in the first place.
It isn’t perfect and it does create some grey areas but it does unquestionably work to control the population. The biggest risk we face on the population front is re large numbers of locally qualified residents returning as there are tens of thousands of those (as with Jersey) and they are free to come back whenever they choose.
A review of our housing rules is currently under way and some changes are inevitable but population levels will undoubtedly be protected under any changes.
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Oh dear! Another Troll alert at 101. Avoid engaging or responding!
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im non qual- its my choice to be here and pay extortionate prices for things- rents/ property prices etc.
im here cos when i came a few years ago- no benefits existed- its scandalous that some non qual people are getting benefits- people who are young fit healthy and able to work- cap immigration for those who are a drain on society and keep your well functioning island functioning well or end up like the UK! Charity begins at home- LOOK AFTER YOUR OWN FIRST- not other nationalities who dont have the same values. im not a racist, just wanna keep this happy sensible way of life. PEACE to all.
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you dont have to stay in jersey for years in order to buy a property- i bought a non qual one after being here 6 months.
stop whining everyone
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You get the government YOU (including you Vicki) deserve! Everyone else’s problem but my own, whine whine, whine. Get a clue, every civilised place on planet Earth has immigration issues EVERYWHERE you uneducated, socially inept buffoons! Deal with it or move, I hear it’s quiet down the South Pole. BTW I am Jersey born and bred in case your little minds were wondering……..
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After reading some of the xenophobic diatribe of some of the above commentators, I feel compelled to say a few words. I now live in the U.K., but previously lived in Jersey for over 30 years, where I was brought up and educated. I was recently back in the Island for the Battle of Flowers and visited numerous restaurants in the St. Aubins area. The vast majority of the staff in these premises, were from eastern Europe or Portugal. Their customer care and level of service was second to none – far better than I have come to expect from the majority of Brits (including those from Jersey) involved in the hospitality business. They help to attract numerous visitors to the Island, many of whom come from Europe – during my short stay I met many people from Germany, Holland and France who were very complimentary about their Continental cousins. Let’s stop running people down just because they are outsiders – don’t forget there many from England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland who now live in Jersey. They, together with other nationalities have contributed greatly to wealth of the Island and rather than criticise them, we should thank them for their efforts. Don’t forget there are many locals who are work shy and won’t do the jobs that outsiders do.
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Re 101
About slavery, try watching the film amazing grace.
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When you all say that nothing is regulated…..are you aware that businesses have recently had more pressure applied to ensure that a certain percentage of their workforce have been living here for 5 years or more?
Of all the job advertisements that we published locally, only about 1% came from applicants that fit the 5 year criteria, and certainly none at all from the ‘beans’.
It is extremely difficult to fill the locally qualified quota when applications are not made by those with the qualifications. We would love to have more locals (including students) in the business but the interest just isn’t there.
The problem is not all about letting in more immigrants, but also about making it more difficult to claim benefits when there are jobs out there to be taken. Also more help from the states for adult education for those that cannot afford to take a qualification that would help them get work. Some help is offered but only for degree level qualifications and that does not help people that need to get a first foot on the ladder.
It is very narrow minded to pin unemployment levels on there being too many of certain nationalities. Jobs go to those that apply in the first place and those that best fit the criteria and experience required to do a job well. From what I have seen it is sometimes the immigrant population that are more willing to put in the time and application to get that job!
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What I would like to know is why we even allow them in to our Island and settle, We are not part of the european union! As a real Jerseyman my passport states on the back pages “this person is not entitled to any benefit or work employment in Europe” bring back the WORK PERMITS, Guernsey has it right they never got rid of them. Our Gov is corrupt and only got rid of those work permits so they would not have to retrain workers in the coming season, most of them in Gov at the time of of removing the work permits had their own greedy mits in the hospitality ie hotels etc..
Sort out the immigration by bringing back the work permits I say!
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Well what a debate Vicki has started. I lived in Jersey from 1988 to 2003 and I was not allowed to rent a proper flat because I did not have Residential Qualifications. When my wife got pregnant we left Jersey because we were paying a ridiculous rent for a decent place to stay. We moved to the Isle of Man and have never looked back. We bought a house and live on an island that is not over crowded and has a work permit system in place to stop all these immigartion problems. Our son goes to a really well managed school. A brand ne Hospital was build recently witch is modern and the service you receive is better than any I have experienced from all my travels around the world. The Government in the Isle of Man looks after its people and the island is ver family orientated. Jersey could learn a lot from its offshore neighbour who doesn’t seem to have all the problems that Jersy has.
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Dreamon # 105. You are having a laugh – you can’t depend on Britain’s history of success. The past is the past and today Britain’s standing in the world is marred by the British reputation for crime drunkenness, disorder, disorganisation and inefficiency. Jersey has always benefitted from incomers and will continue to do so, notwithstanding the jibes from the xenephobic minority.
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I came over from GSY to see Jimmy Carr the other week.
Me and my partner asked for directions from town on the best way to get to Fort Regent. We asked 6 different people and none of them knew. Quite shocked by that really!
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So teenagers leaving school today are struggling to get a job. I am born and bred in the island and wonder whether there will be a job in Jersey for my 2 year old son when he leaves school. Bringing more and more people to the island to work to pay for an ageing population is just the craziest thing I’ve ever heard. Increasing the population is what caused the ageing population problem in the first place. I would like to know who is going to pay for our new arrivals when they are ageing? We were told we had two choices. Increase the population or pay more taxes. Well 10 years ago we were all paying half as much tax as we are today and there were only 88,000 here. It seems as more and more people come everything is becoming more and more expensive – especially property!
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@R Sole et al.
Yes Some local people may be work shy – but this is the same the world over.
Some ‘immigrants’ are over here for the easy life unfortunately.
The issue with immigration at the moment is not xenophobia but the states wanton disregard for putting into place controls to stop people entering the island when we have no jobs available nor spare capacity for services etc.
1500 people unemployed and still there is no control.
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When I was at uni (Warsaw University) one year I came to Jersey for a summer job. I was a waiter at one of the restaurants in St. Helier.
I had many experiences, good and bad. I had loads of fun, but mostly with my Polish student friends. I’m quite outgoing and have no problems with my English, and thought I will get to know many local people. What I found is that it was massively difficult to connect to anyone local. “Like” hang around with “like”. And people are quite stuck in their ways. There is also some sort of a superiority complex.
I have some friends living on the island now, and I feel sorry for them, as they are treated as second class people anyway, discriminated, exploited by landlords (no tenency agreements or rights), offered jobs below qualifications… And longstanding locals still feel compelled to unload so much frustration on them in internet fora like this. People who feel they are entitled to decide that “we” should send “them” away, people who are “not needed”…
I appreciate my Jersey experience, because living here made me realise that grass is not greener on the other side. That Western Europe, and particularly British Isles, are not as good as they perceive themselves, and as many people still perceive them to be. There are many many problems here. It made me also look at all the god sides of my own country, and appreciate those things that work pretty good, and there are quite few.
I would not like to live in your island. I work in a media company in Warsaw, and I may be making less money than a Jersey minimum wage, but no one will ever look down at me. I also work with UK expats, and other immigrants in my Warsaw office (Vietnamese, Ukrainian, African), and I welcome them, and want to get to know them.
I feel weird when people on this forum complain about having people speak foreign languages in Jersey. Or that there are many non-locals, so that no one in the street can give you directions. I am fascinated when it happens in Warsaw.
And every day I am more and more certain that the future is much brighter over here.
So yes Jersey, cordon yourself off from the world, and conserve yourself, if this is what you want.
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#3 Bella, your issue is more about population than immigrants. Even if it was just locals Jersey’s population would still rise and you would face the same problems. If you kick all non-locals out tomorrow you won’t have a hospital, you’ll have hardly any public services at all. Could you live with that? Honestly? Or do you want to send home the immigrants, even though their taxes have helped make the hospital, and all other aspects of the island infrastructure, what they are?
Why doesn’t everyone just use their brain and say “get rid of those that don’t even bother to try and work (whether local or not)”, “get rid of those that are just a drain on the taxpayer” etc? No point annoying the immigrants that DO contribute towards the island, because they may well just up and leave. While I believe fully that Jersey would be fine in the long run (although incredibly different, more agricultural and a lot poorer) it wouldn’t be fine in the short-term.
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#1, 2, 8, 11, 12 (couldn’t be bothered reading the rest of the moronic writings).
I’m sure the UK will be delighted to stop Jersey people being allowed to work there, I’m sure they’ll be equally delighted to stop allowing your students to pay a subsidised rate to study there. Even better we can call you ‘international’ and force you through customs every time you want to head to the UK. Oh, won’t it be great when your children have to pay full whack to go to University because you don’t have one in Jersey? I can’t wait
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#54 I suspect there will be Jersey people that return home (as you say) probably when they find themselves unemployed in their host state, oh yes, they would be immigrants, wonder how they get treated
#42 In answer to your questions:
No
Are you having a laugh? Not a chance!
No
No
Maybe people give hostility when they get hostility? Just a thought. Jersey’s set-up is quite hostile to immigrants, even those from countries where Jersey people are welcomed and treated as locals! So even if you think that, as a local, you have been friendly to immigrants (and I doubt you can say that) your Government isn’t, and that is what matters. Jersey people should be forced to live in sub-standard accommodation in any country their emigrate to, they shouldn’t have their choice of jobs either (they should only be allowed the minimum wage ones), then maybe you would change your tune. I guess all Jersey ‘immigrants’ in the UK (cause they don’t get called that there!) must be better off in the UK too, wonder what that tells you about Jersey?
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124 Pawel
I’m afraid it goes both ways. When I played football we had an influx of Polish players. They (nearly) all spoke very good english and yet would segregate themselves from the other players, speaking only in Polish and training amongst themselves. There were plenty of other nationalities on our team: Spanish, Swiss, French, Portuguese and of course all UK and Irish….nobody else had an issue with integrating.
Also, when I visited Poland last year I was quite appalled by the attitude of the locals towards us……when I spoke to a “Jersey” Polish friend about this, they said it was quite common because Polish people tend to distrust outsiders.
Please do not throw stones in glass houses. If I were to move to a new country on my own I would go out of my way to integrate and make new friends. This does not seem to be the case with the hordes of Polish in Jersey because they simply stick to their own groups rather than trying to get to know the locals.
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128 My sister has two children who attend First Tower School where there are quite a lot of Polish children. She says they only mix with other Polish children and gets the impression their families are not interested in integrating with other non Polish families.
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128 & 129.
Now really isn’t the time for these sort of comments.
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Having bothered to have a bit more of a read, some of the comments really are just odd!
Some observations…
Some of you have referred to Jersey being a ‘host’ to immigrants, as if this means no-one should ever say anything bad about Jersey. Except what you seem to really mean is that immigrants should give deference to Jersey people. Of course they shouldn’t. You didn’t do anything special to warrant being born here, it was simply either an accident or a matter of circumstance, not something you should be respected for anyway. Respect has to be earned, no matter where you were born.
As for how immigrants feel towards Jersey people there are some matters that cannot go unaddressed. Some of the laws Jersey people have allowed to be enacted are not those of a nation of kind people who believe all people to be equal. Those laws do reflect on all locals, even though it is clear that not all locals are happy with the housing disparity, they are also the very FIRST thing that people find out about Jersey! So their immediate introduction to Jersey is “you don’t matter as much as ‘Jersey people’”. Also, those of you who are just normal people that treat others as equals suffer due to the attitude of those yokels who really do make non-Jersey people feel unwelcome from the minute they step off the plane (let’s assume a fair number of them are above). That is a shame, but it is always worth remembering that by the time an immigrant comes on here they will have been well-versed in how it’s “your island” and “these people” are just ruining it for you. I do wonder if that is why some nationalities do stick to their own.
I never hear or read anyone criticising Jersey the place, rather the Government and some of the laws that Jersey people have allowed to be enacted. As taxpayers, immigrants pay the wages of the Government so the Government are fair game for criticism.
It is amusing that you would have some idiot locals having a go at Scotland when Scotland is a country that welcomes Jersey people and treats them the same as any local. (N.B. hate to show up their childishness but Scotland happily accepts English people too
) If acceptance of immigrants was the sole deciding factor then it would be very obvious which country had the kinder people.
So the sad thing is that while some of you may feel aggrieved by the attitude of immigrants towards locals, those attitudes have been caused by your peers, people like some of those above who truly believe that just being born in Jersey makes them superior (and make no mistake, that IS what they are saying, the excuses don’t wash).
Thankfully some immigrants will take the time to meet and get to know the real, decent people of Jersey who do typify your normal, welcoming island-person. But on the way they will meet those who openly make it clear that foreigners are not welcome, and they will meet others who pretend to be fine with foreigners, but show their true colours when one such foreigner enters their family. I guess your attitude towards Jersey depends very much on which you meet the most of and what order you meet them in.
There are good and bad people everywhere, the good Jersey people really need to start shouting down the bad ones. You can ‘protect’ your island using methods that aren’t racist, xenophobic etc.
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The comments on this site are a disgusting image of this island.
Only a small minority of under educated or unqualified people thinks that way.
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“We would love to have more locals (including students) in the business but the interest just isn’t there.” – Not just immigration (117).
If you are serious when you claim that only 1% of your applications are from those with residential qualifications then do not bother analysing the attitudes of local job-hunters any further. You need to start examining YOUR OWN BUSINESS rather quickly to discover what you are doing wrong. Either that or you are in the hospitality trade in which case you don’t need to bother about raising your standards because you can just rely on foreign labour.
This is the best period in decades for employers trying to recruit from the local workforce. Even the uni students returning home for the summer are finding it hard to get a few weeks work. Believe me when I tell you that even some of the less renowned Jersey employers are being flooded with more applications than they can find time to reply to after they advertise their vacancies, so why is your business not attracting as many responses?
Look at your terms and conditions (are you only offering the statutory minimum 2 weeks holiday entitlement and minimum wage? Do you fail to ensure your staff get regular rest breaks?); look at your present staff with supervisory functions (has one of them got a reputation for bullying staff and word has got around?); look at the number of hours that you are asking your staff to work and whether these hours are anti-social (as I have already pointed out in No. 80 above, those with children may be unable to work for an employer if the hours are inconvenient).
In essence, stop blaming the local workforce for your own shortcomings as a businessman.
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This isn’t a Polish tragedy, it’s a human tragedy, and it has shocked and upset all Jersey residents regardless of how long we have lived here.
I’m saddened to hear that there are worries about continued acceptance of Polish immigrants – I really don’t see that anyone with an ounce of compassion would think anything of it (the ‘racial’ origin). This kind of tragedy can happen no matter where the family has come from.
I still welcome the many friendly eastern European immigrant workers who do such a great job over here.
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Leah, # 131 ‘I never hear or read anyone criticising Jersey the place, rather the Government and some of the laws that Jersey people have allowed to be enacted.’
As I said, back in May:
“Nice place, shame about the population”.
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Leah
I was expecting a defence of the Scots from you, but I support Jean’s #83 comment. The majority of unpleasant individuals I’ve ever met in Jersey, have been Scots who have a problem with either alcohol or the English. The women are lovely, but the blokes are nutters.
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125 LH
Of course i wouldn’t want to kick out immigrants-i have no problems with them,why my mother was one,she was highly trained in nursing and came here along with others as there was a shortage of experienced staff.
But i think enough is enough, and time to bring in some kind of control, as too many are affecting our quality of life as i mentioned on my previous post
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David
My comment is relevant to this topic, thank you….why the need for you to comment?
I am as shocked as anyone about recent events, but that is another subject….
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No 136. I would agree with you if you are talking about the different immigrant nationalities, but none come close to the working class Jerseyman.
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#136 Beaumont, when people are that stupid there is simply no point wasting time on them. Have they met all the Jersey people? There are some right weird ones around. How weird you are has nothing to do with nationality, well not unless the observers are actually just bigots who refuse to even try and understand a different culture. Still anyone who thinks the Scots hate the English clearly hasn’t lived in Scotland, I’d guess they read papers like the Daily Mail and they soak in every word of its nonsense! Mind you, hating Westminster? That’s fair enough. Who doesn’t? Maybe some people are so stupid they assume that SNP are the Scottish equivalent of the BNP just because of the name. Scottish independence isn’t about England, not even remotely.
The problem drunks I’ve met over here have mostly been Jersey people or English so I guess it just depends where you happen to walk by of an evening. And when it comes down to teenagers I’ve witnessed worse off the females than off any males. But where Scotland’s alcohol problem is concerned, if you go to any academic event in England you’ll find it’s the Scots who are most bemused at how drinking seems to be a national past-time, drinking at lunch time seems to be the norm even amongst educated people. Still, people born in Jersey certainly shouldn’t through stones!
#137 I figured as much Bella. You do usually take a more sensible view towards immigration.
#135 True. It’s not so bad once you meet the better Jersey people, but when you arrive and all you meet are like those above it certainly doesn’t make for a good introduction to the locals. You’ll even get ‘friends’ moaning on about immigrants, ranting and really berating them like they are subhumans, then realising and saying “oh, except you of course.” That’s where you see that it really is just ignorance and living a sheltered life as many of these people can end up forming great friendships with the immigrants they hate so much. Thankfully there are plenty of good Jersey people.
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By the way, Leah, my use of the word ‘population’ is deliberately ambiguous!
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I work with a polish chap so I have no problem with immigrants, the problem I have is that the government in Jersey is doing nothing to protect the future lives of the people already living here. At the end of the agriculture season you have loads who want to stay but can’t get work, numerous of times they have come in to my work asking for work, im sorry but if their job is over and they have no work then the only option should be to go home and stop trying to rip our benefits off, the same with these parents who are claiming benefits for their children who are not even living on this island, claiming money for a child who is living in Poland or Portugal etc.. is just wrong!! And yes I do class anyone who is not Jersey as a foreigner on this island, the same as I was classed as a foreigner when I was serving in the military in the UK. I can trace my heritage on Jersey back well over 400yrs
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143 if you’re a Jerseyman how come you refer to heritage “on” Jersey rather than the correct “in” Jersey!?
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Waving Falcons stop trying to knit pick, I know what I meant and so does most other people on here. I guess I will use the word decendents for your benefit as you enjoy pulling one word out of a whole post. Lets see Gallichan, Le Lerre, Huchet to name but a few in my blood line from both sides of my parents, oh and the fact Jersey states decided to open our borders to anyone yet us Jersey people still have in our passports the crap saying we are not entitled to benefit or european provisions relating to work/employment.
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‘I guess I will use the word decendents for your benefit…
Lets see Gallichan, Le Lerre, Huchet to name but a few’
Are these your decendents (sic)? I’m intrigued. How can you be sure?
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