Long-term jobless double in a year
Thursday 25th August 2011, 2:58PM BST.
Economic Development Minister Alan Maclean
THE number of Islanders classed as long-term unemployed has more than doubled during the last year, worrying new figures have revealed.
According to a report released today, 1,350 Islanders were registered unemployed last month – 70 more than the previous month and 110 more than the same time last year.
And the number of long-term unemployed – those who have been out of work for more than a year – now accounts for one in five of those currently seeking jobs.
Economic Development Minister Alan Maclean today admitted that the figures were disappointing but said that the States was doing everything possible to help people find work.
Travel
To, from and around the Island
Airport Arrivals/Departures
Harbours Arrivals/Departures
Bus Information/Timetables
JOIN US ON...
Facebook and Twitter
Follow us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
Got a story? Get in touch
KIT 4 CLUBS
Win a share of £10,000
2012 is the year of the London Olympics and to celebrate this great event the Jersey Evening Post, in association with sponsors Ogier is giving all sporting clubs a chance to win a share of £10,000.
This is Jersey
Jersey Evening Post
Useful links
What is the criteria for receiving unemployment benefit? For many years after I came to Jersey there was no benefit, only pariochial assistance. I broke my leg once and hobbled down to the town hall but upon seeing the queue decided I’d manage somehow.
Basically the policy used to be for immigrants – you worked or you went home, has this changed as there appear to be a good many non locals in receipt of benefit.
What is the qualifying period for assistance, how are individuals assessed, is the benefit ongoing and if so is it routinely assessed, or do we just hand out money willy nilly as appears to be the case.
Hey I’m not local although after 26 years I consider Jersey to be my home, worked for everything I had, earned my quals and took nothing aside from ocassional sickness benefit. I am deeply concerned that the system is being abused and money we can ill afford is being given out like Smarties to all and sundry. My primary concern is that people who have barely if at all paid into the system are milking it dry.
Answers please.
Report abuse
Can someone please let us know what the truth is as month by month we are told different stories, high unemployment, no… no.. its lower than last month – no it high again or is it low!
Looks like once again the left doesn’t know what the right is doing in the states once again.
Report abuse
When is this Government going to do something about immigration? The only reason people come here to work is because there is massive unemployment elsewhere yet our locals lose their employment opportunities when the immigrants come here, and it affects all industries. We also have a rumoured problem with immigrants only employing people of their own nationality when they creep into management, or am I being racist here? Whatever, its disgraceful that people born here are out of work.
Report abuse
Since the benefit system was centralised it has increased to £100 million a year. The benefit system is so generous that it has now become a life style choice not a benefit. Twice in the past month there has been cases of assault in the JEP by people who have collected there benefit and gone on ALL DAY DRINKING SEISIONS . There are also many people who work for cash in hand £10-£15 per hour, we all know who they are the domestic cleaners, gardener who only want payment in cash and don’t declare their earnings so don’t pay income tax and also claim benefits so a double hit on our resources.
This is the biggest thread to the future of our island i have had several discussions with different states member and all i got was yes i know but what do we do. Make a start by reducing the amount of benefit and maybe they will pay the poor pensioners their Christmas bonus instead of relaying on Mr Kirsh.
Someone suggested deputy Gorst as first minister I certainly hope not the benefit bill has double under his leadership
Report abuse
Income Support is available to individuals and families that satisfy conditions relating to residency in Jersey and employment. One adult in the household must have lived in Jersey continuously for at least 5 years immediately before making the claim or for a consecutive period of 10 years at any time in the past.
Every adult in the household is expected to be in full-time paid work or be exempt from full-time work.
Source: Jersey CAB
So, not that easy to claim income support, after all.
However, if non-locals have paid their taxes and Social Security and, for whatever reason, Jersey is there home (there can be no diminimus to when a person feels like where they live is there home), then they should be entitled to income support.
You will always have people abuse the system, but this is likely to be a even mixture of locals and non-locals.
I think the pertinent question here is what are the States doing exactly to help people find work.
Advance to Work may have place about 200 people since its inception – but the States have to look, in my opinion, how to grow the economy through diversification away from finance.
Report abuse
no kidding , we now have the “lost generation”
never worked in a proper job, the only work was on a job creation scheme to get some experience for a few weeks .
it may double again next year, as the years fly by these days.
and we have to employ localy born, even saying this in america now ( bloomberg).
if we dont then it will be tax and social up again to cover the unemployment bill.
where will the jobs come from?
most are feeling the pinch, so spending less.
over population has damaged us, no matter if you were born here or not .
imho it will be a long time time before all the plates are spinning in the air well again, loads of wobbles and crashes along the way.
Report abuse
Its all part of the rush to turn Jersey into a suburb of Hampshire. Slaveishly follow the U.K.’s utterly failed social policies including welfare, drive the economy ever onward to more and more people crammed closer and closer together, paying more and more tax so that more and more people can enjoy a work-free lifestyle.
Nothing against citizens of other countries living and working here, they contribute greatly to our society, both here and in the U.K. But once the shortage of skills and manpower have been met then surely a lid has to be placed on any further expansion. Only today, a report in the U.K. has shown that STILL, more people are entering the country than are leaving, dispite what polititians say. And here in Jersey, STILL, they pour in, sliping easily into employment offered by their own countrymen, as Nick @ 3 rightly states.
Our bright polititians have introduced the U.K.style welfare state here, funded by new taxes such as GST and the Island Wide Rate (added to our rates bill)and opened the doors to the world.
As we approach our first ever general election, WHERE is the political debate on this issue and indeed any issue facing the island.I get the feeling that this Jersey election should be treated like changing the clocks, quitely and when few are awake.
Report abuse
We need to stop immigration, all jobs should have work permits. Why are some companies allowed to employ people just off the boat for low skilled jobs whilst locals are unemployed and living on welfare.
This is going to be the major issue at the forthcoming election – only vote for someone who is prepared to set up work permits.
Report abuse
7 Martin
I have been saying for a long time that our rulers are preparing to have us incorporated into the UK.
I would opt for total independance first, possibly asking the French for protection. Wouldn’t they just love it! We’d be made for life!
Report abuse
#9 nigel
vote for P.bailanche at election & you will be wrong as he seems to want us independent so he & his bailiff brother can control ALL!!
Report abuse
Jersey would never be willingly incorporated in to the UK. Instant loss of tax avoidance status.
God help us if Bailhache gets elected and pushes for independence.
Report abuse
@ #9 – Nigel
Nigel… why would we be “made for life”?
Report abuse
@ #8 – Overpopulated
You asked…
“Why are some companies allowed to employ people just off the boat for low skilled jobs whilst locals are unemployed and living on welfare.”
Like anywhere in the western world, there are jobs that the local population will not do – our low-skilled work – I presume you mean potato picking, meat packing and other agricultural activities – will not be doen by locals.
This is not a Jersey thing. It’s the same in the UK and the USA, for example. Yes, you may have a handful of locals who would roll their sleeves up and get stuck in – and fair play to them – but, by and large, immigration is important and these low-skilled jobs – or rather the fulfillment of them – is, in no uncertain terms, critical to our economy.
And, I should hasten to add, I speak from experience. Throughout my professional career, I have about 99.5% of applications for work – for unskilled, low-paid work – from non-locals… and not people straight off the boat… they go and find somewhere to live first.
Report abuse
13. Then our government should be discouraging the setting up of businesses that only provide low paid employment – how does ‘the fulfillment’ (ie a tax fiddle moving DVDs around the world) benefit Jersey?
It only benefits the wealthy people who own the businesses.
Report abuse
stop letting in all the Immigrants then….simples!!!
Report abuse
Michael(4), the folks on benefits you describe who do cash in hand work whilst on benefits are committing benefit and tax fraud – something which infuriates honest citizens like us.
The above-mentioned situation requires the following observation : I assume there is a Fraud Investigation Team working for the States, i.e. doing work for Finance and the Social Security departments. They should have work coming out their ears, don’t you think?!
Report abuse
pete (11) God help us if Bailhache gets elected and pushes for independence.
Pete, the world always looks rosy when you look through rose tinted glasses. Sir Philip is a very clever lawyer, but you cannot legislate for prosperity. Jersey is a small island, situated on the fringe of Europe, nobody can change that. The EU can cut us off whenever they want; no electricity, no finance industry!
As an island we have to get along with our neighbours, not annoy them. Even the Swiss are starting to open up, as they realize that they are just a mountainous island in the middle of Europe. The only country in Europe to go totally independent was Albania and just look at them now.
Report abuse
Nobody in their right mind would vote for independence.
The finance industry is the result of careful balance. Jersey banks feed money into the City of London and we do various offshore things for them, etc.
We do not push it too far, they do not legislate us out of existence.
The UK also guarantees our currency and as long as it does not cost them a lot they look after us in Europe and we piggy back on their health and university system.
We are fairly independent but we do not have to go it alone, sounds like a very good deal to me!
Report abuse
Unfortunately, many of the comments on this page have nothing at all to do with the article, which reveals the increase in the number of long-term unemployed.
Mulvie Le Phew (1)- your comments reveal your total ignorance of the benefits system. First- if you broke your leg, why did you not obtain a medical certificate from your doctor and claim injury benefit? Even if you had insufficient quarterly contributions, you would have been paid benefit at the full rate if there was a contribution due in respect of you in the month you had the accident (in other words if you had worked during the month of the accident). No need to go to the ‘town hall’ to claim welfare when a contributory benefit was there waiting for you to claim as of right, regardless of means.
Second- you make the mistake of many in wrongly thinking that Income Support is only claimed by people not working. It now includes the former rent rebate, which is paid to thousands of tenants based upon their income and the rent they pay. So you do not need to be out of work to claim Income Support- it is an ‘in work’ benefit. Furthermore, there is no such thing in Jersey as ‘unemployment benefit’. Understood?
Third- it is not just those renting qualified accommodation who can claim the housing subsidy element of Income Support. You can even claim it if you rent a non-qualified property, provided you satisfy the 5-year residence condition and your income and savings are within the limits. Because many of the Polish immigrants have now completed 5 years residence, they are increasingly starting to receive Income Support as non-qualified tenants of lodgings, even though many are working and taking jobs away from the locals.
Fourth- on the subject of Poles taking jobs from locals, yesterday I went into the bank to cash a cheque and then phoned a recruitment agency. In both cases I was dealt with by Polish staff. Both these jobs can be done adequately by locals and should be restricted to locals because there is no shortage of suitable labour in those areas, but they are not. This is the heart of the problem which the politicians refuse to accept.
Fifth- one of the reasons that more people will qualify for Income Support in the future is because Minister Gorst has twice increased the earnings disregard, ostensibly to act as an ‘incentive’ for the unemployed to take up employment. However, the flip side of this change is that more working people higher up the earnings ladder who were previously ineligible for Income Support are now becoming eligible to claim. So at the same time that he is cutting off benefit to certain unemployed teenagers who have no other means of supporting themselves, he is letting higher earners who are working become eligible to claim in their place!
Report abuse
we let the polish in, now suffer .
things will only get worse .
Report abuse
do you think we can stop blaming people of eastern european origin, for our ills.
the open door of hardly checked immigration is to blame , also lack of political will to call a halt to it.
a post elsewhere on this site , stated ” the island would grind to a halt without the thousands of eastern europeans ”
and yes it would .
these people are here and have put down roots as many did before ( my parent included ).
if we look back to the80′s when the place was booming, un employment was low against the population of that time .
so maybe our unemployment is not so bad, when compared to the size of the officialy unknown population today.
can anyone shead any light ?
Report abuse
It’s very difficult to approach this subject without making unkind remarks about our Polish community.
However, I don’t blame the Poles, they came here to make a life.
I blame the States 100%. They’ve shown themselves to be totally arrogant and incompetent. They were incompetent in allowing 7000 Polish people to settle here, and they are being arrogant in avoiding any confrontational debates about Polish immigration
Report abuse
I went into the bank at lounguville – SERVED BY A POLISH WORKER!
Went to B & Q – SERVED VY A POLISH WORKER!
I then stopped at Spar – SERVED BY A POLISH WORKER!
When we have 1,300 locals unmemployed with another 600 joining this month. We have to push our kids up to Highlands AS THERE IS NO WORK FOR THEM TAKEN UP BY IMMIGRANTS!
Get it States members? Jersey born locals should be number one priority!!
If this issue isn’t dealt with soon there is going to be an uproar, mark my words!!
Report abuse
This is what you get with incompetents like Ozouf, Le Sueur and Walker and Horsefall before them following redundant Thatcherite polices that were never sustainable. We need sensible centre-left policies and competent professional people like Crowcroft. Le Herissier, the Pitmans, Breckon and Le Gresley in the positions of responsibility. All these failed accountants and politcial hobbyists who have never worked for a living are driving this island to ruin. Take Le Marquand with them as well!
Report abuse
Because they won’t stop immigration (too scared) we all pay the cost in unemployment for locals, discimination against locals and more locally born people claiming benefits because they are pushed out of their own job market. Jersey people suffer the results of overpaid political cowards.
Report abuse
With regards to the common argument that jobs should go to locals… isn’t it obvious that if a non-local can do the job better they should get the job. Employers exist to be successful, not benevolent to locals who can’t or won’t do the job.
If Jersey people want jobs, they had better shape up or ship out… theres a boat in the morning… apparently.
I couldn’t get a job here for ages, so I left, acquired better skills and experience off-island, came back and I was fighting off job offers.
It may be many people’s home island, but that doesn’t entitle them to a job… they have to be employed on their individual merits for the benefit of brand Jersey.
Report abuse
Stop immigration and make the unemployed work in these jobs “locals don’t want”
Remember that while immigrants are prepared to do these jobs, their offspring will look for better and quite rightly too.
Report abuse
Germany has recently (1 May 2011)opened its borders to the eight central and eastern european countries that joined the EU in 2004.
Wages, accommodation and transport links are far better for east europeans in Germany than in Jersey so few east europeans will come to Jersey in the future and many of those now here will leave.
Report abuse
“they have to be employed on their individual merits for the benefit of brand Jersey.”
Urg! What vomit inducing management babble! Cringe, toecurling.
Report abuse
Locals do want ordianry jobs it’s just that they are discriminated against
Report abuse
28; Dave. thanks. That’s the best news that I have heard for a long time. We can be thankful to the German economy for doing the job that our politicans are too weak to do.
Report abuse
Verity – darling – Jersey is a brand. When States delegations jet off to far-off lands, they are selling Jersey as a total package – a brand.
Of course people have to be employed on their own individual merits – you can’t give a job to someone just because they’re a local – they may be the least qualified and experienced out of a whole load of other people who may not be local.
If you’re trying to sell a brand, you need to know you have the best people in place in order to live up to the sales patter.
It may be toe-curling, or vomit inducing – but, alas, accurate.
Local people may be discriminated against – and so they should be… if there is someone better to do the job than a local, then GREAT… all the better for the longevity of the island’s debt-free economy.
I note, though, Verity, you didn’t argue against the other parts of my comment.
If Jersey is to compete against other jurisdictions around the world (recent example being Funds and the Far East) then it has to, without doubt, have the most appropriate people working in the island’s jobs.
Jersey locals need to take a good, long look at themselves and begin to understand that their complacency which is almost inherent in their psyche needs to be knocked down a fair few notches.
If you think you’re good, but are useless, you’ll never get anyway and you will drag everyone else down with you. If you’re useless and you know it – then there’s still hope for you.
Most Jersey people are not prepared to put the effort in to make a difference – and that’s why they lose out on jobs to non-locals.
Report abuse
hats off the the polish they do a great job the problem locals dont want to work the benefits system is to good and to kind why work n pay tax n social when you can earn £27k for been at home and choosing the easy life
Report abuse
31, Ken
‘We can be thankful to the German economy for doing the job that our politicans are too weak to do’
I’m not convinced that it will make much difference, Ken and Dave, except to Germany.
Jersey attracts people who appreciate what it has to offer. Ask yourself why the Poles already here bothered to continue on to Jersey rather than work in the UK.
No doubt many will prefer Germany, good luck to them.
I don’t think that there will be a mass exodus from Jersey by workers from outside who have found the place to their liking, whether they are from Poland, Portugal, Scotland or New Zealand (to list the ones who appear to be least popular with the so called locals or, in the case of New Zealand, on this forum)!
Report abuse
34.
Sure it won’t make an immediate difference, but after a few years you will notice the effect. Few new Poles will come here to work and some of the ones already here will leave.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘Jersey attracts people who appreciate what it has to offer’. A lot of immigrants just come here to make money and have little interest in anything else about Jersey.
Report abuse
32.verity
Jersey locals need to take a good, long look at themselves and begin to understand that their complacency which is almost inherent in their psyche needs to be knocked down a fair few notches.
I think this is to do with Jersey being turned from a agriculture/fishing tourist island into a multicultural inner city on a rock with all its inherent problems .
I would say 99% of people come here for money.
The original inhabitants therefore have to compete with them whether they want to or not.
While many workers would be happy to work 40 hours a week and spend some time with their family they now have to compete with money hungry east europeans who are usually younger and willing to work as many hours as possible on a lower wage to send home to build their houses.Now this is great for unscrupulous employers but not so great for the local workforce.
There are undoubtably some lazy locals but i think you will find the majority of locals are ordinary families with moderate expectations who have seen their world turned upside down by this recent massive increase in uncontrolled immigration,many even finding it difficult to find school placings for their children.
So locals aren’t complacent just were happier with the life they had 20 years ago compared to the one we have now.
Report abuse
Paul@23
Did you ask these people if they were Poles?
Or was it you assumption that because their first language wasn’t English they were Poles?
Report abuse
#14 Some of the low-paid employment is for the STATES! If those salaries go up then you can be sure your taxes will go up to pay for it.
#19 I can understand that you may be aware of what work the employee in the bank does, however, bank clerk work can be particularly low-paid so the bank may not get many applicants from locals. It may be that the locals who do apply have poor numeracy skills, I say this because it isn’t uncommon in Jersey these days (nor in the UK). Numeracy skills would be important for work as a bank clerk. As for the person who answered the phone to you, do you know what their daily work entails? It’s easy to assume that they just answer the phone, but it’s unlikely that is the case. They may be highly qualified in HR, it is a field of study that seems to be quite popular in Poland.
#27 Greg, I love the idea of taking those who ARE just being lazy and forcing them to work, but who will take them on? If they are remotely intelligent then they are unlikely to be lazing about in the first place, and if they aren’t intelligent then it will be manual labour and they will probably be less productive than the employees currently being used. Great idea to force these people to work, but I don’t want to have double the workload because of their mistakes or because they don’t bother.
Report abuse
#35 To be replaced by Romanians, Latvians, Serbians, Bulgarians,…
The xenophobia will just be directed at a different nationality, nothing will actually change.
Report abuse
Jersey legally cannot prevent immigration from within the EU. It’s the housing laws which are ineffective – if you have nowhere to live then it’s impossible to stay. Guernsey’s open market/local market controls result in an effective cap in immigration. There are circa 1800 properties designated open market and unless you buy or rent one of those (very expensive and therefore not an option for low earners) then you have to get a local market housing licence and seasonal workers only get one for 9 months a year after which they must leave for at least 3 months so they don’t build up housing rights. 3- year and 5-year housing licences are gard to obtain and would be extremely rare for low earners.
Sure – there is some “leakage” when low earning immigrants establish relationships with locals which enables them to co-habit with ease, but that’s unavoidable. Impossible though to get to a point where several thousand Poles (or Latvians in our case) are able to settle permanently all the year round like in Jersey.
Report abuse
# 35
‘I’m not sure what you mean by ‘Jersey attracts people who appreciate what it has to offer’. A lot of immigrants just come here to make money and have little interest in anything else about Jersey’
In their case, Dave, money!
In a few other cases, the natural beauty and the way of life (several options available on that one).
Report abuse
No 40, I thought that guernsey had much stricter employment laws than Jersey. What are the ‘right to work’ laws in Guernsey?
Report abuse
Dave
Everybody, regardless of their housing status, must have a Right to Work document. This either states that they hold local status through birth/marriage/long term residency etc, or have been granted a local market housing licence, or are occupying open market property (one of the 1800 designated properties). It is an offence for an employer to employ somebody with a valid Right to Work document. It is essentially a “work permit” but is totally linked to housing status.
We simply don’t have the “bedsit brigade” or “lodging house” system over here which seems to result in uncontrolled permanent immigration in Jersey.
Hope that helps.
Report abuse
Thanks Guern. The last time I was there I noticed that there were quite a lot of Lativians(?) working in tourism/retail. On what basis are they allowed in? and can anyone (who can afford it) occupy an open market property and get a Right to Work document?
Report abuse
Dave come and run for States over here! Ok admit Guernsey wins on this !
STATES ARE YOU READING THESE POSTS!
Wasn’t it in days of old they were not allowed off the boat unless they had the correct forms? that is why we ended up with Mr and Mrs Grab-all-You-Can, here in Jersey as the boat stopped here!
Report abuse
Could Janet please advise what professional qualifications or experience the Pitmans have?
Report abuse
Dave
Yes there are lots of Latvians here (and a few Poles and also quite a few Madeirans who have been here for years now). Close to 3,500 Latvians I believe during the summer season. Mostly in tourism, horticulture and fulfilment, but not many in retail.
Its nearly all seasonal imports because they come on 9-month local housing licences or come to live in employer-owned open market accommodation (often converted guesthouses). Those with 9-month licences can come back each year but they must leave for 3 months and that means that they have not built any housing rights. Those in open market do not build up any local housing rights but that’s starting to get under pressure under human rights laws. Its likely that after 7 years they may obtain some rights but most of the work is seasonal and if there is no work to employ them for 12 months a year, they are unlikely to stay all year.
This system does enable us to allow some key workers to stay all year round with 3-year local housing licences, but to ensure that the seasonal ones leave (unless they enter into a relationship with a local but we can’t stop that). It just seems to work for us and that may be partially down to the slightly different foundations of our economy (our tourism industry is now a fraction of the size of Jersey’s).
Yes – any EU citizen who can afford to buy or rent open market property can live and work here without restriction. Most of those open market properties are private dwellings (our equivalwnt of your 11K’s) so there aren’t masses of properties available. An identical £1m on the local market would cost about double that on the open market to buy – likewise rents would be about double – and that means that low earners really can’t afford to live open market unless they are using employer-owned property for multiple occupation (which several hotels and other large employers have done).
The fact is that unless they can prove where they are living, and on what basis, they cannot get a Right to Work permit, and so its an offence for any employer to employ them. Pretty simple really. Somebody coming off the boat would have to sort out their housing situation first before anybody can employ them.
Report abuse
Shona Pitman has a masters degree in peace studies, if she were not Jersey born she could be working for our government doing something useful like spending millions of pound working out ways to save thousands.
Unfortunately she was born in Jersey so the only job she could get was as a States Member.
Report abuse
“Could Janet please advise what professional qualifications or experience the Pitmans have?”
Not a good game to play in the States.
If relevant professional qualifications or experience were needed there would not be many of the present incumbents in there.
Report abuse
Guern, 47,
Our States Members here should hang their heads in shame after reading your letter, at least I hope they did read it!
Report abuse
Guernsey have the right idea-we should look to them for inspiration.
They look after their own, can’t say the same for Jersey.
Here they put finance first followed by image which is the holy grail,nothing or no-one else matters.
Report abuse
Long term…therein lies the problem…the longer it goes on the more the unemployed adjust to the unemployed life,many get depressed,lose the work ethic,become seriously “anti” and on and on like we see in the U.K. the winter work programme we ha d was abandoned by idiots ….probably as it worked so well,was not a handout,the island got value for money and many jobs that outside contractors subsequently have done,paid no tax on it and buggered off …the winter work scheme should be reintroduced //a.s.a.p…keep people work minded and in their dignity…..no don’t be silly Truthseeker, far tooo sensible and no backhanders given…kiss of death right away.
Report abuse
As a Jerseyman living and working abroad in the British Virgin Islands I have noted that the local BVI population and their employment is protected by law and gives priority for any job over an immigrant applicant.
I quote below an extract which perhaps would be option for the current situation in Jersey :-
“The constitutional guarantee against discrimination specifically allows for the regulation of employment relations in such a manner that allow for Virgin Islanders to be afforded preferential treatment.11 It is acceptable to grant more favourable treatment to a qualified and disciplined Virgin Islander in the recruitment process.12 Therefore, where 2 or more candidates apply for a job and one of the candidates is a Virgin Islander , once the Virgin Islander qualifies for the job and has no disciplinary issues, preferential treatment dictates that an offer be made to the Virgin Islander over the other candidate (immigrant/expat).”
This has protected the BVI islanders for years and will continue to provide prospective employment to their population in priority to immigrants.
Report abuse
Can somebody please explain the elephant in the room, clearly work permits are the only viable solution. We cherry pick who we want based upon positions we cannot fill locally. Those cherry picked have equal housing rights under the old J cat rule ( can rent can’t buy )they have a good quality of life living in decent accommodation and are entitled to buy after 10 years of committing to our economy.
Now back to the elephant, there is a compelling reason that every states member is aware of why this is not implemented. Nearly all copmmenters on this forum would agree to it, what is the downside?
Report abuse
Mulvie Le Phew
Under EU immigration law (and yes, Jersey is deemed to be part of the UK for Immigration & Nationality Act purposes), we simply cannot stop an EU citizen coming to the islands to look for work. However, we CAN control their right to live here and to occupy certain property. EU laws expressly permit small communities to adopt appropriate housing laws to protect their small populations from uncontrolled immigration.
The problem in Jersey seems to be that you have a massive number of properties over which you have absolutely no control of who occupies them. In Guernsey its just 1800 open market properties and most of those are owner-occupied normal houses (albeit with an inflated open market value). Every other property is a local market property which can only be occupied, in effect, by locally-qualified islanders or by imports with an essential employee licence.
Immigration controls on their own will not work (at least as far as controlling immigration by EU citizens is concerned). Housing controls tied in to Right to Work documents are the ONLY way to deal with the issue.
Report abuse
Jerseymanabroad (53)
The BVI is not part of the Common Area for EU immigration and so is entirely free to adopt such local employment protection rules. Jersey cannot do that for EU citizens.
Report abuse
Pip, please re-read Janet’s post. Not a game on my part – she referred to the Pitmans as professional people and although I agree with your sentiment, she has quoted the two of the most un-professional (remember the night Mrs Pitman first got elected?).
Report abuse
@54 Mulvie Le P.
Because business likes unfettered immigration into the island. Another thread regarding the coffee man is testament to that. And business rules the roost here.
Businesses don’t care from where a person originates from. As long as there are lots of them and they have wallets\purses is all that matters.
Report abuse
54, almost everyone wants restrictions on immigration – it will be the big issue at the forthcoming elections. Work permits make perfect sense.
Those of a cynical nature would suggest that as the whole island appears to run to appease Dandara – they won’t like this as it would reduce their profits.
Report abuse
(53) sounds a good road to travel.
who has the backbone to take it to the states.
when seeing the for and against after the vote . the public can see who to not vote for again.
Report abuse
Well if they want to make life difficult for us English and control housing and rights to work then I hope the UK reciprocates and makes life equally hard for “locals” to work in the UK and he wider EU. I mean, you can’t have it both ways Jersey! Anyway until the unemployemt rate reaches 20+% it will hardly be considered to be a crisis! Local? or otherwise? live with it!!! and deal with it Jersey!!!!!
Report abuse
I have just finished reading all of Guerns comments and have to say they are all good. If our Jersey representatives just took a small amount of what Guerns has to say and used it then we might have some hope of a bright future.
At the moment our future is bleak economically wise. Everything is based upon finance with a token gesture towards agriculture and tourism. Its disgraceful how we as islanders have been made to kow tow to the finance indusrty.
As for Verity banging on about how the best person for the job should get the job, in finance I might add. Well verity you obviously havent lived here for too long, 30 years ago we had employment and little non employment. The benefits system was hardly heard of. The scenic beauty of the island was upstanding to many people and we had a tourism industry based upon the islands beauty and the great locals. Then Verity along came finance, and your lovely finance industry helped to turn it to poop. Remember when a normal blue colar worker could afford a house or flat, no i bet you dont or dont care because in your different world it doesnt matter provided you are provided for. Your type of view/comments make me sick especially as I am of a many generation Jersey family and its only when reading your garbage that i think yeah there is a boat in the morning, but not for the cheap labour but for people like you.
Report abuse
Think about it Mr Maclean its not that difficult to work out.
Report abuse
Guer, thanks for your comments they were very interesting. One other thing I have noticed is that Guernesey seems to be more selective about who are ‘essential’, and tends to give them fixed periods of residency.
I know of several UK accountants who worked in Guernsey for a fixed period and had to leave Guernsey at the end of it. They then came to Jersey, got J cat jobs and bought houses here. Although they are on 5 year J categories, housing currently seems to extend J cat permits on demand.
Report abuse
“At the moment our future is bleak economically wise. Everything is based upon finance with a token gesture towards agriculture and tourism. Its disgraceful how we as islanders have been made to kow tow to the finance indusrty.”
OK BRIGHT SPARK, do prey tell what other industries Jersey can use then to create the capital needed to fund the islands existence? Were a bit thin on the ground after finance.
E-commerce? Other juristictions already got there, manufacuturing.. NO, the far east dominates that area, maybe intellectual property (like designing products)… er no missed that boat.
The point is people, you have little choice other than finance?! Stop bashing the only thing that stops Jersey turning into Cornwall… i.e. a place that only survives due to tourism… and even that is pretty bad on the island!
Report abuse
“The scenic beauty of the island was upstanding to many people and we had a tourism industry based upon the islands beauty and the great locals.”
Yep and then the world moved on and they discovered it was cheaper to fly to Spain. If finance has not come along, Jersey would have been left in the doldrums.
You are deluded if you believe Jersey has any real hope of bringing enough tourists backs to the island again to sustain it. And anyway, why get on an over expensive flight to Jersey when you can drive to Cornwall?!
Report abuse
Guern 55 – thanks for your detailed and comprehensive response.
So if “Housing controls tied in to Right to Work documents are the ONLY way to deal with the issue”. Then the solution becomes an implementation of this policy, marginally more complex than a traditional work permit but I don’t see it being prohibitively so. Clearly there is no political will, I can only conclude it’s a turkeys voting for Christmas scenario and that those in power are those benefitting most from the current arrangement. problem is it’s unsustainable and has already passed tipping point. I recall working in Alderney some 20 plus years ago and we were police checked before being allowed to enter, one of our party had a police record and was denied entry. As an absolute minimum could we not adopt this policy, we grow our own vermin perfectly well without importing it.
Report abuse
I agree with you Scouser. Its about time the UK reciprocated and put restrictions on channel islanders living there. If this lot want to discriminate against us, then let them feel it the other way round!
Report abuse
Guern
Thanks for the useful comments on how your housing and work licenses system operates. I guess one of the things that underlies the differences is that Jersey was greedy for expansion and the accumulation of the coin regardless, whereas Guernsey’s policies have meant a more controlled growth with resulting less deterioration in its quality of life, social cohesion and happiness for want of a better word. You could easily argue that Guernsey Politicians have implemented policies that have benefitted more evenly a wider percentage of their society whereas our politicians have certainly increased the level of income and other inequality on the bigger island. Shame we can’t turn the clock back 50 years and manage the growth in the economy the way you have done.
Report abuse
Mulvie Le Phew (67)
If the person with the criminal record is an EU citizen then I don’t think its lawful to prevent them coming in unless they have previously been the subject of a deportation order. Remarkable, but I believe factually correct.
Dave (64)
Yes – that’s correct. Local housing licences are not given out too easily. 3-year licences are relatively easy (ie for young qualified accountants) and they will often be extended to 5 years and sometimes even 7 years (less so recently), but its extremely rare to get a licence extended beyond 7 years (usually only if the licensee has invested significantly into the business, i.e. by becoming a partner). Teachers only get a 15-year licence if they are head of department. All other teachers are usually kicked out after 7 years maximum. Personally I think that’s counter-productive as it results in the same overall total number of imported teachers, but it gives you an idea of how tough the local licensing system is.
Its not hard to see why our population is relatively static in direct comparison with Jersey’s.
Report abuse
Sally (69)
I think you are right, but I suspect the fact that Guernsey’s politicians seem to have adopted the right strategy over many years may well have been due more to accident than design. It goes against the grain to give our politicians too much credit because for many years they were guilty of simply not making any decisions – which in itself proved to be a good strategy!
Report abuse