My reference was not to do with appearance
Friday 26th August 2011, 3:00PM BST.
From Deputy Shona Pitman.
I WRITE with regard to an email of mine on which you based an article (JEP, 29 July).
The first point I would make is one expressed to me by constituents and other members of the public. This being, isn’t it strange how such a triviality apparently warrants such extensive coverage, when many propositions that I have brought on important issues such as the constitution; the unnecessary public sector pay freeze; and, indeed, the clearly established benefits in exempting healthy foods from GST are given nothing of the sort?
I would like to consider a few pertinent facts about my reference to Mr Bean: it was directed, quite simply, at what I and many others consider the Home Affairs Minister’s bungled handling of the demonstrably unfair and even questionably illegal suspension of the former Chief Police Officer, Graham Power. Similarly Senator le Marquand’s wholly unjustified attempt to remove members from the ESC/Home Affairs Scrutiny sub-panel recently, simply because they had reached different conclusions based on hard evidence to those of the Minister.
The point is, of course, that Senator Le Marquand is wholly untroubled by my email. We discussed this via email and he is fully aware and accepting of the fact that my reference in no way referred to his appearance.
A further question must be as to why Senator Terry Le Main felt the need to make comment about this? Surely, this couldn’t have anything to do with the
Senator standing in my St Helier district, for Deputy.
Why then, I would also ask, does this trivial email get full-page coverage when my complaint about Senator Le Main having to be reprimanded for his loud snoring during the reduction of Senatorial seats debate was not covered at all?
Why too was it not ever reported when Senator Le Main was required by the Bailiff to withdraw his false accusation that Deputy Southern and I had committed ‘electoral fraud’ when, of course, all our ‘crime’ had actually been was to help a number of disabled and elderly constituents to fill out a registration form to request they could receive a postal vote?
As for the comments attributed to Senator Philip Ozouf – as witnessed by the JEP in the States Chamber, the Treasury Minister sought to give the public the false
impression that I was ‘electioneering’ in having to move back my healthy foods
exemptions debate.
Yet the fact was, as I had told the Senator the day before, I did this purely as a
result of needing to devote time to supporting a close member of my family who had suddenly suffered a stroke. I therefore, could not finish my speech on this proposition.
Yes, just as so many of the public who speak to me in the course of work note: it is, indeed, funny what does and what doesn’t get reported.
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I find this deputy’s attitude appalling. Quote:
“all our ‘crime’ had actually been was to help a number of disabled and elderly constituents to fill out a registration form to request they could receive a postal vote?”
You broke the law Deputy and were fined for breaking the law and should not be in Government after breaking the law period. I find this ‘playing down’ of a crime by the Deputy disturbing especially when it involved the voting system.
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I thought the former Chief of Police retired six months earlier than necessary and therefore actually ducked away from any disciplinary? Can somebody enlighten me on that point?
Anyway away from all this spin and old news, when will these States members actually do something about things that mean something, like say unemployment?
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Great letter, surprised half of it got published truth be known.
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I voted for Ian Le Marqaund because he a professional and I have a lot more respect for him than anything this Deputy has ever done in Government. And no matter how you try to dress it up, the Mr Bean comment was stupid, childish and unprofessional for any States Member. It wasn’t even funny.
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Le Marquand, Le Main and Bailhache I would not vote for either of these.
Because Le Marquand and Bailhache are lawyers and have held States positions does not necessarily mean the are clever. Maybe the firms they worked for thought otherwise. Some of the former bailiffs judgements were rather curious as were that of “judge Bean” Le Marquand.
Ed. Le Goff
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Oh, come on, pull the other one.
What’s so significant about Mr Bean other than his appearance that makes him memorable? I don’t recollect him being noted for (mis)handling political situations.
The other one’s got bells on it!
Golden rule Mrs P., never be the identifiable source of a rumour or a nickname. And have more sense with emails.
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What a silly letter and I do think her e-mails deserve attention because these people are supposed ot be running this Island. I presume Mrs Pitman is standing down this time around?
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2 quotes:
“the unnecessary public sector pay freeze”.
Excuse me Deputy we have 1350 out of work and people in the Private Sector who have not seen a pay increase in some case of up to 5 years, whta the hell are you on about?
“the clearly established benefits in exempting healthy foods from GST”
This was discussed at length by the whole assembly, I even listened to it on the radio. It was not financially viable to implement and the jury was out on the classification of what is and what is not healthy food. I cannot be bothered in commenting on any of the other silly points. But I recommend more people stand if this is how easy it is to get into politics.
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I hate saying this but on this one occassion Stuart was right.
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It seems that everything is trivial to this deputy, insulting e-mails and breaking the election law, just a normal day it would seem. Such a shame we have people as flippant as this running the Island right now.
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Lol, you can’t blame Terry Le Main or any States Member for dozing off in the Chamber especially when its the Tuesday morning backbencher question time.
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I know it might seem terribly unfair that Senator Le Main was reprimanded for his loud snoring during the reduction of Senatorial seats debate…but, he was snoring so loud that he almost woke all the other politicians!
C Le Verdic
I’ve just found out why the ‘s’ was missing in my ‘Crampe des écrivains’ moniker…one too many letters for the name field.
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Well said Deputy. No doubt the JEP won’t print this because I can honestly say everyone I know thought your email was hilarious and spot on. Le Marquand ‘professional’ Harry? The man has been an embarrassment and I say that having voted for him. As for the Deputy’s awful ‘crime’ of being fined for helping two disabled and old people complete an application form to ask if they could have a postal vote, this was a terrible abuse of the law by our beloved Establishment. Obviously politically motivated as legal all over the democratic world. The Deputy should have appealed to Strasburg. But then justice in Jersey is only for the rich isn’t it.
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Fair play to the JEP for allowing the DEputy to respond. I totally agree that this was a ludicrous waste of space over a triviality of an e mail.
I must also thank the Deputy and the JEP for highlighting how Senator Le Main was found snoring during a States debate. These are the old boys behaviours that we really need to be shot of from our government. Time Mr Le Main hung up his boots.
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We learn from this that Deputy Pitman has never evolved beyond name calling spoilt toddlerdom, and epitomises lack of respect in public life. We need our politicians to function, have informed debate and work together. Stop wasting public money Shona and grow up. Decent people apologise of course…Now there’s a thought!
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Attn Paul
i thought the former chief extended his contract in order to face the disciplinary charges but as the reports were delayed and delayed he had had enough and retired. This being a lot later than he needed to. Once he had retired and ILM finally many months later received the reort he then went on to act as Judge and Jury in the matter.
Feel free to correct me if I have got that wrong but thats the events as I recall them.
But thats not the point of the letter, it shows how little is reported when the so called establishment do something wrong compared to any other states member and is something that really needs sorting out so we can get a balanced view of who is up for election and not a one sided approach as so often appears to be the case.
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I didn’t find this e-mail funny at all in fact I was shocked at the clowning around in the States it highlighted. If the job is just a game for some people then its time they did something else.
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Tony #16.I am sure that the majority of the island electorate share your view.Well said.
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Thank god the Council of Ministers do not behave like this deputy otherwise the Island would be really in trouble. Name calling through the e-mail system, try doing that in a bank or a law firm and see how HR deal with it. If Mrs Pitman seriously believes that calling the Home Affairs Minister Mr Bean is in the interest of the voting Jersey Public then she must be blooming stupid.
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Try turning up to the public gallery and actually watch the States in action for yourself and you’ll soon see the lack of respect and bad behaviour FROM THE MINISTERS – but of course that never gets reported!
About time we had the sittings televised so we could see what goes on. They’ll never vote for that though.
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“Name calling through the e-mail system, try doing that in a bank or a law firm and see how HR deal with it.”
The email system is the responsibility of the IT department not HR.
They get to see and mostly ignore or bury the name calling, petty feuding, inappropriate or joke emails.
If HR policed emails they could probably sack all the staff including themselves after a month.
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Perhaps if Shona Pitman was not mucking about with the States of Jersey e-mail system in the first place then there would be no story? But funny how she uses her own mistake of being caught out to lay into another States member just for whistle blowing her antics.
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I cannot believe our valuable states places are taken up by the likes of Shona Pitman. No wonder this former glorious island has gone to the dogs.
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‘No wonder this former glorious island has gone to the dogs’
Mary, Jersey was too bound up with being glorious to notice the take over by the dogs!
I suspect that my opinion on who the dogs are could be different from yours!
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@1 It is not a crime – it is a regulatory offence. There is nothing immoral about it, it is simply a law which has been passed for the ease of the bureaucracy.
Let’s not start confusing immoral actions (i.e. things that are right and wrong) with statutory offences.
Taxation by government is immoral (i.e. Thou shalt not steal) but it is not illegal.
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The sooner her, her husband and Southern are gone, the better for this Island.
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Don’t make excuses – please just do us all a favour and resign
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Mrs Pitman is so clueless to the general annoyance of the bickering issue she queries why the email deserved full page coverage. The email deserved full page coverage because it shows the witless nature of certain members who feel it is more important to belittle their opposite numbers rather than enter into debate while taking home well above the average salary courteous of the tax payer.
I can’t speak for the JEP but I’d guess they never made an issue of Le Main’s ‘fraud’ accusation because a) it was not in writing and b) because inaccurate oral statements are retracted all the time, and his was retracted. On the other hand rather than apologising to Le Marquand and retracting your written statement, you go on record and attempt to cover your tracks by stating that you think Mr Bean has the ability to be a qualified lawyer and conjure up all these clever ‘schemes’.
It is all very noble to help the disabled but Southern either knew the rules and deliberately broke them or is ignorant. If you or Southern do not realise you cannot give a disabled voter a lift to register for a postal vote, in the same way a prosecutor cannot give a disabled defence witness a lift to Court, then why are you in trusted positions?
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Well done Mrs Pitman, please continue to let the public know about the shocking behaviour of the clowns we have in government.
Terry Le Main needs to resign, he is a joke and a not very funny one at that.
Le Marquand is just like Mr Bean, bumbling and inept. He is completely out of touch and has completely let down those who voted for him.
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Oddly, I smiled when I first read of Mrs Pitman’s Mr Bean comment, and smiled more when Mr le Marquand shrugged it off. Always room for a bit of light heartedness and Mr le M deserves a wee cheer for taking it in that spirit.
But then Mrs Pitman’s letter to the JEP made the old blood boil. Quite simply, she is not telling the truth. Her reference was to Mr le M’s appearance – of course it was – but to use the coverage as an excuse to raise a whole raft of other points on the back of it (possibly written by Mr Pitman) was disingenuous to say the least. Squalid behaviour. Is there a less impressive politician in the States?
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James W says taxation by government is immoral. Is paying nurses, doctors, teachers, the police, benefits to those less fortunate than ourselves etc etc etc immoral too? Where will all the money come from, eh?
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@Vorlon
If only everyone thought as rationally as that, then this inane bumbling woman wouldn’t be in power
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At long last I have uncovered the reason that Jersey is in such an abysmal mess; too many people are remaining awake during States debates. Please see that sleeping pills are issued to all attendees prior to any sittings.
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All this letter demonstrates is that there is a massive gap in the behaviour and more importantly the thinking of our States Members. Shona cannot continue with her record to date, if she cannot admit it then the voters will have to tell her. One major reason why is that this letter shows a lack of empathy for the private sector work force which will be living in the deputy’s district. When I read about a deputy talking about pay increases for civil service when so many in the private sector have been made redundant even this year I really wonder whether she knows what’s going on in this Island.
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Mike
The same place it came from before 1945 – our own pockets (which would be that much fuller if the government didn’t pick them), from the churches and from charitable organisations.
Charity is never a bad thing, enforcing charity on people through taxation is a terrible thing.
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Imagine a society with no taxation, no public money. Hmm.
What is immoral, James W, is people wanting the services but think that they should be magically delivered to them at other people’s expense. I gladly pay my taxes – rather a lot of them – because I want hospitals, schools and police. You mention 1945 (perhaps you think that that is when tax was invented). Who paid for the British Army who liberated us?
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James W,
I think you’ll find the reason why you pay taxes is largely to ensure the rule of law is maintained thus enabling you to enjoy your property rights.
That said, I find it beyond abhorrent that my taxes are used to pay the likes of the two Pitmans, who stand for election in St Helier while living in St John.
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“The same place it came from before 1945 – our own pockets (which would be that much fuller if the government didn’t pick them), from the churches and from charitable organisations.”
Jersey barely had a state before 1945 so taxation beyond rates, import duties, etc was not needed.
Only St Helier and a few outlying bits had a sewage system, everywhere else was on soakaways or worse. Rubbish was dumped in private tips, if you had a handy hole or small quarry you filled it up. A lot of country people were almost self sufficient anyway so they did not produce much rubbish.
Roads were mainly for walking on, hundreds of bikes, a few cars, horses pulling carts and buses. Not the tens of thousands of cars and the huge lorries we have today.
Education was almost totally private with dame schools, etc, plus the church and public schools, and it was cheap, a few books, pencils, paper.
GP’s did a lot of medical care including quite serious operations like tonsilectomy at your home. Medical liability was unheard of, if you died, tough, the doctor had tried his best. There were no modern and expensive drugs or procedures, if you got something really nasty you died.
The States police did St Helier mostly, outlying areas got by with the honoraries. The island was basically a small community that got by on fishing and farming so there was virtually no crime anyway.
The churches were huge and powerful, almost everyone attended, not to do so would have made you the talk of the parish, so they had the money to look after a poor widow woman or three.
I could go on but it is a bit pointless. Jersey could not be run today in the way it was even in the early fifties, a modern society needs a modern state to hold it all together.
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‘I find it beyond abhorrent that my taxes are used to pay the likes of the two Pitmans’
Does anyone ever use the phrase ‘the likes of’ to describe people they actually like?
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Pip Clement. You describe Nirvana. A time when Jersey, and Jerseymen/women (I suppose I have to say that now), were self reliant and self sufficient.
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“Charity is never a bad thing, enforcing charity on people through taxation is a terrible thing.”
Seems ok to me if the majority (through the ballot box) agree to it, and so long as it’s well run (the politicians are accountable for that). Better to have clear rules to make things fairer than relying upon whether your face fits or not at the Parish Hall.
Maybe you just don’t want to give anything to anyone? Not a great believer in Society and the collective good?
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CLeV,
I use the phrase “the likes of” because they fit a certain “type”. Thus my criticism is not limited to the Pitmans but also to “the likes of” the Pitmans: any other politicians who lack qualifications or serious employment history, who lack the intellectual ability to analyse problems and whose political philosophy is to rabble rouse and appeal to a small core electorate to ensure their continued ability to feed at the trough rather than to do anything that might benefit the island.
But for the avoidance of doubt, they are not the only ones. And increasing the number of deputies compared to senators increases the power of “the likes of” the Pitmans because it means those with broad appeal across the Island have fewer oppportunities to get elected.
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donald pond @42
(&37)
** I use the phrase “the likes of” because they fit a certain “type”. **
Their “type” is in opposition (which we DO need whether or not you happen to like Pitman or ‘Pitwoman’)
- SOJ is mismanaged by a collection of other “types” who run the show and own the island.
My opinion is that a good lawyer who is worth what he or she earns would not make such ‘ill advised’ or bigoted statements.
We are all entitled to our opinions and for what it is worth I agree with you about “deputies compared to senators” which I consider to be part of an ongoing electoral stitch up.
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Holy,
Their type is not “opposition”. Ben Shenton was a constant thorn in the side of the “establishment” but didn’t fit the type. Whereas Duhamel is now a Minister but does fit the type.
What we need is States members who are intelligent and have the ability to think independently. At the moment I can’t think of one who fits the bill, and what is worse, I can’t see one candidate standing who shows any indication of being able to think creatively or with originality.
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O come on, he does look like Mr Bean, and that is what you were saying. Like someone else mentioned, Mr bean is not famous for fumbling politics. he is famous for looking stupid.
You got busted, stop wasting time and just say sorry and get on with your job.
And yes of course this got reported cuz this is what sells newspapers. we love to see other peoples f**k ups
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@44 Not one candidate with any original ideas or creativity? There is definitely one. I know who is getting the only vote I am casting in the Senator elections, his advertising is in the JEP but he is missed off the list of candidates for some reason.
If the media is ignoring him then he must be onto something good.
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donald pond
Agreed with everything you’ve said so far.
James Wiley #46
Please please please don’t tell me you’re referring to Syvret? Please?!
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What’s the point running down politicians? The voters will decide next month. Wait and see.
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