Unruly politicians ‘should be fined’
Saturday 22nd October 2011, 2:59PM BST.
Senator-elect Philip Bailhache
POLITICIANS who insult and abuse each other should have their pay docked, according to Senator-elect Sir Philip Bailhache.
The former Bailiff – who secured a record-breaking 17,538 votes to top the Senatorial poll on Wednesday – says that drastic action is needed to improve the way that States Members do their job.
And he says that the existing code of conduct, which requires politicians to treat ‘other Members of the States, officers, and members of the public with respect and courtesy and without malice’ needs to be properly enforced.
Senator-elect Bailhache said: ‘The problem is that there are no teeth to enforce the code. And we have seen Members who have relished the opportunity of repeating all of their insults if a complaint is made, so there is no respect for the code.’
• Sir Philip is the subject of the Saturday Interview in today’s Jersey Evening Post
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I did not vote for this – did 17,000 odd know what was really in Sir Philip’s manifesto?
From manifesto to mandate in 17,538 ‘easy’ steps !
Perhaps he has only just thought of fining decent – or more likely this lawyer decided to leave this little detail out of the manifesto
Remind me, which [family] member enforces the rule.
If this is Democracy then Democracy sucks !
Regards,
Spit Orswallow x
ps. what is the fine for my ‘impoliteness’
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What Philip means is that he wants less robust debate in the States.
He wants there to be no opposition faction in chamber who hold the COM to account. He wants all members to just toe the line so they can work more efficiently.
I think this is a terrible way to do democracy. If a politician has lied to the public, another politician should be allowed to call them a liar without punishment. Politics is a tough game, and if they’re not grown up enough to handle it then they shouldn’t be there at all.
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Gosh, we really should tug our forelocks and thank our Baron kindly. No doubt he and his brother will decide whose turn it is each week to cough up the lolly. I sense certain States’ members who don’t agree with everything our Lord and Master wants will find themselves very much out of pocket. I wonder if he hears the sound of drums often..?.
There are dark days ahead, friends….
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Err, is this all he has to worry about?
If so, then I’m rather glad that the economic downturn has rescinded and that we all have well paid jobs with no financial worries.
Mind you, one’s experience of people losing their politeness is usually caused by frustration with someone else not doing their job properly. Perhaps the former bailiff should look at these causes and not just the symptoms.
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We live in a small place and many of us hear enough about some of the rudest members to question their motivations and to be believe they would not earn £40,000 a year outside the States.
Some have a very undistinguished past and present.
Pay them £30,000 and reduce the money motivation at least. Local fame / infamy is harder to deal with.
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And so the Dictatorship begins. Speak out against me and other members of the establishment and you will be silenced. You get what you vote for.
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Fine, but who will decide who is guilty or not? perhaps the Deputy Bailiff, William Bailhache, Phil’s brother. No conflict of interest there then.
Plus, the privileged rich politicians (such as Phil) don’t even need the wage. Whereas the politicians who need their wage to survive – the ones who actually understand what most local people are going through right now – will be severely affected by any dock in pay.
What if it was not the pay that was docked, but the offending politicians were fined 2%, say, of their total income, investments and property? What would Phil think to that?
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Some will view this as an attack on democracy but I think he has a good point. There is a world of difference between making an educated and researched point in disagreeing with a position of another member of the house and making personal, rude and distasteful attacks. Such behaviour only leads to polarisation amongst politicians and in turn the general public. This can be clearly seen in the USA where the GOP and Democrats now are so steadfast that they completely refuse to co-operate resulting in a deadlock which almost caused the worlds markets to crash. I would certainly rather see co-operation and combined efforts to move policies forward.
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Hear, hear Senator Bailhache!
Perhaps he has in mind that shameful episode in 2008 – when former Senator Syvret hijacked the traditional Christmas speech to launch a disgraceful tirade against his colleagues.
However may one humbly suggest that further sanctions, such as suspension and if necessary imprisonment, may be necessary to ‘persuade’ the worst offenders.
Proud Jerseyman
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17,538 people can’t be wrong can they? Of course not…those are the ones who have got the candidate they want. The problem is, those are the people who work in the finance, legal & public services that Sir Philip Ballache appeals to.
Its a sad indictment of Jersey that so many navigate their way through society with the same moral compass: The pursuit & worship of wealth, nepotism & cronyism over talent & hard work and most all, the stifling of dissent through a restricted press and the states.
Yes, the majority signed up for this but look at who is the majority now and don’t be surprised. The moral decay of Jersey has been happening for years, this is just a major signpost on the way to somewhere very bad indeed.
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You idiots out there look what you’ve done….the pomposity and arrogance of totalitarian supremacists knows no boundaries…beware the one who claims to be against a bit of political rough and tumble..when the agenda is “CONTROL” no less….I have been banging on about the separation of powers along with any fair thinking person for ages….the chance has been lost again..the cut and thrust of politics is part of it despite any upper class protestations…if you can’t stand the heat ..get outa the kitchen…the hiding of an evil motive beneath a good one has led to so many draconian laws…like the anti terrorist laws…do you know the law covering the airport and harbour are completely different to the rest of the island???…..same as the PACE law that allowed an over the top SWAT type raid on Stuart Syvrets and Caroline Labey’s home..NO warrant needed and the law “Conveniently” came in just a few days before the raid ..so folks your home,computer,private papers can now be seized without warrant or warning…you like it..? what we have here folks is a mere facsimile of democracy….and moving even deeper into trouble with this dreadful development…lament at your leisure now suckers.
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I am most interested to read this. In recent months, I have approached a sitting senator for assistance and have encountered an extremely unprofessional, evasive and aggressive gentleman. Needless to say, this particular individual did not come up for recent election.
It occurred to me at the time that there is no effective sanction for such a breach of oath of office. No doubt this fact is something which influenced the senator in his appalling conduct.
If Sir Philip has his way, then there will be a proper remedy for members of the public who are treated with contempt by elected public officers. It is unbelievable to think that elected officials can behave in such a disgusting way with impunity. I personally think that politicians of that ilk should be suspended or even ejected from office because they clearly are not fit for such office. Hopefully, Sir Philip will take note of this observation when he comes to draft his proposition.
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Hmmmm, would this idea not stifle elected people from speaking out! Should we also consider public flogging for embiciles who speak out against fhe States and the police etc? The elected need to look at what is happening in the world today and not look back to the 1600′s for self protectionism.
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There are a couple of blogs out there which dwell in trying to trash people and sadly a couple are run by sitting deputies. So I totally agree with Sir Philip on this point, it needs to be dealt with.
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Number 9; but what about the disgraceful part where an unelected official switched off the microphone while the Father of the House was speaking and did nothing while the rest of the assembly behaved in a disruptive way?
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Selective headlines make for selective hearing, as demonstrated in the letters to the Editor campaign to oust Senator Cohen.The island wide electorate made an overwhelming statement, without media bias, in electing Sir Philip to tackle sorely needed electoral reform,with a huge majority and that is democracy.The sooner it happens the better.
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And what will happen to corrupt politicians
will it be guidance or will it be covered up.
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This is why the speaker of the house, the States Chamber, should be elected by the members of the house, with the authority of the house.
Spit (1) has a good point this was not Sir Philips’ manifesto, nor did 17,000 plus electors vote for this, be it desirable or otherwise. Implement Carslow and then let’s start from there.
http://www.gov.je/Government/Pages/StatesReports.aspx?ReportID=491
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Ha ha ha! Brilliant! Absolute gold.
As Syvret says, you get the government you deserve. Now the guy who’s probably going to be chief minister wants to fine those outspoken people who oppose the government vocally. As commenter #1 says, it’s the man’s brother enforcing it! So everyone’s going to toe the line, not daring to speak out. Noone questions anyone, and nothing is uncovered or changes. What refreshing reform!!
This is within a week of being elected – I can’t wait to see what else they come up with over the next few years.
You utter, utter fools for not electing any kind of opposition to this.
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I agree there should be a penalty for unnecessarily abusive, intentionally inflammatory and untrue speeches within our government.
Before we can have this we need freedom of information, to have two politicians arguing and one getting fined over something the public and press have no power to research is a step towards a dictatorship and censorship of our politicians through the back door.
For instance “We will fine you for calling us a liars, you know we are liars, there is evidence that we are liars but no one can have access to this evidence because it there is no freedom of information”
How would we deal with accusations of conflict of interest for instance ?
What if someone was fined then it turned out they were right ?
I thought you needed the permission of an employee to take any money out of wages or will we change that law too.
Interesting indeed.
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You mean POLITICIANS that say things you dont like to hear. Look out Islanders you are in for it over the next few years.
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And so the Dictatorship begins. All he wants is every one to toe the line and not to rock the boat “do as I say but not as I do” if voted in I do not know who will be there to represent the hard working class people because he wont be!
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It’s perfectly possible for any member to challenge any other member at any time without descending to the kind of vitriol and personal abuse that has become the staple diet of numerous States members in recent years.
I won’t name them here, because we all know who they are.
Robust but mutually respectful debate is the hallmark of a functioning, mature democracy.
I read Sir Philip’s comments as being a plea for robust, mutually respectful debate. Is that too much to ask of our elected representatives? They are mostly older than 12, after all.
Those of you who see this as “dictatorship” or “totalitarianism” confuse a legitimate desire for orderly progress in government with an unhealthy appetite for political control.
I believe many of those who voted for Sir Philip were saying that they want our elected representatives to stop their bickering, point-scoring and petty personal vendettas, focus on pulling together for Jersey and get on with taking some constructive decisions. And @ 4 Flymo – the sort of issues you describe will never get sorted unless this happens.
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Oh my reading from the ill-informed on here like truthseeker you would think that we are governed by Gadaffi. Hilarious.
Nealry all Western governments have some sort of penalty associated with unruly behaviour. Australia, New Zealand, UK and USA – So makes sense to me. Unruly behaviour is unacceptable.
Please ignore the rampant moaning scare tactics of the Chicken Little like truthseeker.
He/She is just a joke without a punch line, afriad to use their own real name.
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He simply wants to stop States members insulting each other. Why are some people trying to spin this as some sort of assault on democracy. Perhaps if some of the candidates these people support had treated others with a bit of respect, instead of personal enemies, they would have sufficient support in the house to vote down Sir Philips suggestions. But they didn’t, and the democratic majority have sent those members a message that they are fed up with their infantile behaviour. It’s really simple. Act like grown ups and you won’t get fined. Insult others and you will.
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Let’s get this in perspective. All that is being suggested is that members act in an adult and repectful way to eachother and to us, the voters. Constant bickering and insulting behaviour is no way to get the job done. It’s just petty and counter-productive not to mention a complete waste of time. It is not going to affect the logical arguments and will save a lot of time. Silly and petty behaviour just undermines the job of proper government. Some members deal with disagreements in a wholey unprofessional manner by making insulting and often otherwise slanderous comments about eachother under the protection of parliamentary priviledge. This cannot be right under normal circumstances. Where politicians choose to act in this way it is right that they should be called to account. If they continue in their poor behaviour it is right that the should receive some type of sanction, whether that should be a financial one should be up to the standards committee.
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There is a lot of truth in Sir Phil’s point that you don’t need to be personal enemies with somebody, just because you disagree with their politics. Moreover, politics throws up a lot of the reverse, where people who want the same things cannot get along with each other on a personal level.
However, sometimes political ideas reflect moral values that are anathema to others, and show their holders to be rather less decent at heart than men and women of integrity would choose for friends. So, Sir Phil’s light approach to matters like child abuse raises most people’s hackles, engenders personal dislike for many. I think he realises he is going to be in for a hard time, and wants to protect himself.
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Tandy,james1,Marc Jones, Matthew Robins
Who is doing the spin here ?
Let us look at the relevant history
Fast tracking of LLP law:
Elected member is rude enough to point out conflict of interest.
Elected member is excluded for SIX MONTHS
under what law exactly ?
LLP is passed causing no real benefit to Jersey and DAMAGE to UK relationship which we are probably pay for over many years to come.
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DR Said ‘I think he realises he is going to be in for a hard time, and wants to protect himself.’
And what is wrong with not wanting to suffer personal insults because of his professional capacity ?
Would you want to be treated differently ?
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Sheeplike mindless sycophants…whose homes and private lives are vulnerable do not feel it…sensing and trusting it will never happen to them…..suckers…..thses are bad laws that strangle freedom….as you cruise hypnotized into a hell of your own making….lulled by the old school tie assassins.
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So it would appear that Sir Phillip has resigned as a magistrate to become………er……..a magistrate!
How funny is that.
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I think the new Senator is trying to prevent political argument from descending to the same level generally seen on this blog.
There has to be a sanction available (more than, “Who’s a naughty girl/boy, then?”) to deal with politicians who, at the moment, know that they can say anything, however untrue, hurtful or unreasonable, with impunity.
It isn’t a matter of trying to stifle political debate – the opposite, in fact – Sir Philip is trying to ensure that political debate can flourish, in a grown-up and courteous way.
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Love this
It’s about time someone brought a touch of professionalism to the states chambers, I’m not saying they shouldn’t be allowed an opinion or even to go out and publicly disagree with a main policy but there is a way to do it and a way not to:
Publicly slandering states members (name calling) be it by voice or by written word on open blogs, drunken night out and then sleeping in the chambers, being interviewed on TV while under the influence of alcohol – it’s getting out of control and we are beginning to look ridiculous!
About time someone had the guts to stand up against them, moan all you like – he is the right man for the job like it or not.
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Marc Jones….are you not engaging in the very personalised slanging that this thread is about…..is it really that easy to slip into personal attack…..perhaps the shame is on you….?
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Perhaps we could also fine our states members when they are seen to be un-democratic.
Philip Bailhache commented after the poll. “we need a more effective and efficince government”. I did not hear the word “democratic”. Perhaps empire building is what he is at.
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OK, lets give Sir Philip the benefit of the doubt for the time being. Its fairly clear he has aspirations that don’t stop at Senator but if he wants to win the hearts & minds of “ordinary folk” and there are some left in Jersey, then a comprehensive and clean sweep AGAINST corruption, wasting the publics money (endless outside experts brought in to give common sense advice or impart knowledge already held) and more engagement between the public and politics may go a long way to unite the island behind a return to decent values. If that happens, he’ll have shown the sort of leadership Jersey needs right now.
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@tandy 26 & Jersey 33
I totally agree with you both, you are absolutely right to agree with Sir Phil when he says we need more reprimand for unruly members.
It’s just a shame he wasn’t around to police this great idea when one member told another to kill himself. Or another fine example when he could have sorted this nonsense out is when one member called a member of the public an incomptetent maverick using public privelege.
Personally, I can’t wait to see Sir Phil’s idea implemented ‘cos I’m sure it will used in an unbiased way against all offenders irrespective of their political tendencies.
Here here Sir Phil, the saviour of polite and respectful debate.
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This is the sting from the CON COM
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He has only just got in and is already creating controvesy….
Scary thoughts of Animal Farm beginning to fester… Could he be Napoleon the Berkshie Boar… look it up there are so many similarities… especially if Snowball enters the race too…
Who has the right to dictate what action is stepping over the boundary?
Why don’t our politicians just learn to more articulate and respectful instead of allowing sittings to turn into personal mud slinging… They are not all still wearing the old school tie and short pants!
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Since there are still some comments appearing here that suggest Sir Philip’s thoughts are undemocratic, let’s just review the two relevant and incontrovertible facts:
1. He’s just won the island-wide poll with a record number of votes.
2. He’s calling for a code of conduct that already exists to be properly enforced.
Hardly worth a march on the Royal Square.
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Just a local #10
“The pursuit & worship of wealth, nepotism & cronyism over talent & hard work ”
No actually it is stability that the majority wish for which is why Ballache topped the poll.
Truthseeker #11
“You idiots out there look what you’ve done….the pomposity and arrogance of totalitarian supremacists knows no boundaries”
What as opposed to the hypocrisy of certain ‘unelected’ deputies who are allowed to live in their mansion in one parish while stirring up destabilisation of our economy on the pretence of representing the working class in St Helier?! What planet are you on? How can Philip’s agenda be one of control if he is subject to the same rules? The whole point is to bring order to the chamber so those that are there to work can get on with business without the constant disruption of insults from the unelected trolls.
There are many on here with a strange concept of what democracy is about. For those actually concerned about democracy, why don’t you take the trouble to look up who was responsible for the biggest threat to Jersey’s democracy since the occupation by voting in favour of the removal of two senatorial posts with Island wide mandates and then rethink your posts.
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An interesting concept but it is unlikely to work in my opinion.
If the sanction has to be voted for by the whole house then it is unlikely to be used very much.
If is it up to the Bailiff to impose it then it will risk bringing the unelected Bailiff into conflict with the elected house and I know which one always wins that type of conflict and it is not the unelected party!
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Zoro – how on earth have my comments been a personalised attack? I simply asked TRUTHSEEKER to put his/her name in posts as they hide behind made up names
Secondly, it has been Chicken Little to say that everything will go pear-shaped, but never does.
All I have done and ever do is correct the complete and utter untruths and lies spouted out of TRUTHSEEKER – because there are some gullible people out there who might think it is true.
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If community service do not work , money will…
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Matthew Robins @40
” let’s just review the two relevant and incontrovertible facts”
I know that you are not so simple as to think that the two “facts” that you selectively present are the only facts.
A highly relevant fact is the LLP Law/ conflict of interest debacle
(Limited Liability Partnership) in which Bailache took a pivotal role in stifling debate and dissent
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/concern-over-jersey-law-shift-1357579.html
“but neither the allegations nor the expulsion [of an elected member !] is to be examined by the committee of inquiry”
“terms of reference” – IT IS LIKE A SCRATCHED RECKORD -records remember them ?
- short memories on this island !
If you don’t like the independent try the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7351907.stm
Abuse victim’s father: “The man made a fundamental mistake that led to a child being abused”
It appears that having been made aware of the mistake Bailhache decided to do nothing about it (perhaps no one would find out -eh?)
He then apparently tried to blame someone who was not to blame
He then issued a begrudging apology “..with hindsight….” [downloadable from the BBC site]
Add to this that famous liberation day speech [downloadable from the BBC site]
Perhaps you would like some more facts and some more links – all from reputable sources and all surprisingly out of the public consciousness.
Shall we play share a fact ?
Q. How many major accountancy firms relocated to jersey as a result of LLP law ?
A. 0
Q. What was the damage of this “legislature for hire” to jerseys reputation and relationship with UK ?
over to you.
- The price of freedom is eternal vigilance – did someone blink or even doze off ?
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There would have been an awful lot of fines when the house became rowdy while the father of the house delivered the christmas speech. The speaker would have been fined too when he turned the microphone off and when he later misappropriated the liberation day speech. Veritably, the states coffers would have been greatly enhanced! Bring it on indeed, perhaps with retrospective effects so that these breaches might be revisited.
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Behold Ceasar, dictator of Rome…
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@ 40 Matthew Robins
1. Just because he won an election does not make all his decisions from now on democratic.
If he decided to lodge a proposition next week banning deputies from ministerial positions, that would not be democratic just because he won, it’s clearly undemocratic.
2. He’s not just calling for the current code to be properly enforced, he’s asking for it to be changed so fines can be imposed.
If you are going to quote “incontrovertible” facts at least make sure they are incontrovertible.
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Kermit @44
You have been known to talk a lot of sense on these pages.
That said, I get the impression from you think that you voted for change.
PR is a powerful tool, but If you look at history you may come to the conclusion that what you are likely to get is more of the same, but WORSE
May I also direct you to David Rotherham’s devastatingly polite post @27
“Sir Phil’s light approach to matters like child abuse raises most people’s hackles, engenders personal dislike for many. I think he realises he is going to be in for a hard time, and wants to protect himself.”
Perhaps there should also be fines for devastating politeness ?
Is your trust in Lawyers and Politicians based on a reasonable knowledge of their track record on fairness, openness and accountability ?
Repeated assertions that all is well are seductive but do lead to cover up and ultimately more long term damage.
Choppy waters ahead.
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41 and 43 go to 45…I know pet it is worrying to not be able to believe in a totem…which is why those of us who can actually think for ourselves worry you so, or …if we are to believe you that it is twaddle what do you have to fear or get your knickers in such a twist about? as if it were, people would take no notice…..but therein lies the rub boys the painful truth….is indeed painful…the Truthseeker knows that and needs no anesthetic to stomach it nor need to flee from it,or react like a scalded cat in a hissy fit.
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#40 Matthew Robins
Don’t look at that – LOOK at this – ShineeEE………
Don’t laugh at the simplicity – because it is basic PR stuff that is proved to be effective time after time.
Matthew; Do you happen to work in web/media/communications ?
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To truthseeker kristal nacht and his friends.
Isn’t hindsight wonderful?
Someone makes a suggestion and you revert to strawman arguments.
PB is who the majority of voters wanted elected – get over it as it is what is called democracy!
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The Establishment will get you in the end.
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“Ade” @52
“get over it as it is what is called democracy! ”
I know what democracy is and it is very much a spectrum -unless you are very simple minded.
get over it “Ade” as it is what is called HEALTHY DEBATE which is the VERY FOUNDATION of any functioning democracy.
Do you have a problem with that ???
Where are the “strawmen” in my arguments , Ade – can you be specific please.
Then we can play share a fact again
see my post ###45
I am looking forward to it.
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Truthseeker – just because the majority by a HUGE MAJORITY reject the views of you and your lot – you get annoyed. Democracy has resulted in what was best for Jersey – rid of Syvret once and for all (though am sure he will pop his head up now and again for comedic purposes).
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52 ADE..Apparently the ‘majority’ thought it was ok in Germany to attempt to overun and occupy Europe.and exterminate the Jews, all gays and gypsies…ddi that make them right…the whole point is the ‘majority’ are easily led conned and follow like sheep or the world wouldnt be in the state it is…don’t think for one moment we have actual democracy here as we don’t the ability to viote does not make a democracy especially when the political set up here is engineered top keep the establishment power base in power…wakey wakey…think for yourself now.
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@51 “Neo-Con Trick”
The power of Google! Shame that more people don’t have the courage to post here in their own names. We might be able to have a properly civilised and open debate!
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Kristal Nacht
Strawman – you imply PB is less than roboust to Child Abuse how do you really know PB’s position on that and we are talking about members behavior ergo strawman argument
I should have really said (Strawman)and Ad hominem you are attacking the man not the principles.
Your democracy seems to be based on my candidates didn’t get in so democracy must be stifled.
Debate by all means but sick to the topic at hand
Any other lessons you want at present?
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Kristall Nacht – leave the sixth form common room behind you.
Over 17,000 people voted for the Island’s government to reform and progress through choppy waters, not continue its course of carping and navel-gazing.
Constructive politics please. In a more polite and collegiate political environment there is a much better chance of “anti-Establishment” voices being listened to. Which will lead to more effective scrutiny and a less polarised debate.
It takes pragmatism to understand this and make an effective politician.
I’m one of the 17,000 plus, and I’m no fool.
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Dear oh dear, Truthseeker #56. Comparing Jersey in 2011 to Nazi Germany. What a MASSIVE affront to so,so many people. Delusionsal.
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Gosh, what a little flurry we got there: 55,57,58,59,60 (at time of posting) – so much there; lets begin at the end.
#60 Sage “Truthseeker [is] Delusionsal” [sic] you say. ???
Although I get the impression that “Truthseeker” speaks from the heart I quite like and rather respect ‘hish’ [his/her] brand of street philosophy.
1930′s German Fascism is VERY DIFFERENT the Jersey situation but there are interesting parallels to Hitler’s democratic election and I am surprised that the analogy is so lost on you. Hitler was not elected by monsters, he was elected by normal people – not so different from you and me.
Our [Jersey's] situation is generally not desperate but the desperation that does exist [or is perceived] is largely due to uncontrolled immigration allowed by our greed and short term profit obsessed politicians.
Further to the 1930′s Fascism analogy and “Truthseeker” – someone (ade @52) mentioned “strawman arguments” [& incidental has since totally relied on them himself lol.]
If you are not able to take Truthseeker’s point without taking [or feigning] such offence @60, can I direct you to #48 “propaganda”:
“Just because he won an election does not make all his decisions from now on democratic.”
Perhaps that was not clear enough for you and it was necessary for Truthseeker to give you a very stark example.
Some on here might consider apologising to “Truthseeker” who imho makes some very relevant points and makes them well even though I suspect that he/she may not have the lucky recipient of the same level of formal education as you.
-this is another BIG subject as is the issue that, if my memory serves me right, “Truthseeker’” [or closely connected persons] have been on the receiving end of some of the “education & child care” that have been touched on on this thread, and that some are far less willing to talk about.
Sage you “anti-Establishment” voice you ! lol.
No offence intended, especially not to you Truthseeker. It is bizarre; but sometimes it takes someone to say a nice thing to make you cry.
So a little more “respect” and “politeness” if you please.
[take note M.Jones ref.Truthseeker / street philosophy]
‘Ade’ @58 “Any other lessons you want at present?”
:- Maybe later Ade’; but “lessons will be lerned” is such an overused phrase, don’t you fink ?
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Truthseeker @56 “the ability to vote does not make a democracy”
I do understand what you mean and jersey can seem like a one party state.
This is a complex issue an involves the culture the population and the media etc.
For it’s faults I DO class JERSEY AS A DEMOCRACY even though some of the people involved do not work very democratically.
There is much truth in what you say but there a re dangers in overstating your case, particularly in this forum.
As I said @54 “democracy is and it is very much a spectrum” and in honesty I think only the most extreme posters on this site would
that it works well.
Given Sir Philip’s record on these matters it is hard to view his suggestion of fining “unruliness” as a positive development, even if he was not part of a ‘dynasty’.
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Truthseeker @56 “the ability to vote does not make a democracy”
-I do understand what you mean and jersey can seem like a one party state.
This is a complex issue an involves the culture the population and the media etc.
For all it’s faults I DO class JERSEY AS A DEMOCRACY even though some of the people involved do not work very democratically. There is much truth in what you say but there are dangers in overstating your case, particularly in this forum.
As said @54 “democracy is and it is very much a spectrum” and in honesty I think only the most extreme posters on this site would maintain that it is functioning well.
I dont think I could give it more than about 3/10
Given Sir Philip’s record on these matters it is hard to view his suggestion of fining “unruliness” as a positive development, even if he was not part of a ‘dynasty’ in the house.
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The printed JEP report includes the following:
[When asked] : The problem with that approach is that a financial penalty means one thing to an independently wealthy politician and quite another to someone who relies on their States income to live, or to raise a family ?
-His response is immediate, and has something of the judge’s verdict about it: ‘The remedy is straightforward isn’t it? You do not break the code.
No Mr. Bailache, nothing in life is “straightforward”, the person making the accusation may ACTUALLY BE RIGHT as has proved to be the case in the past.
This dictatorial attitude is totally shameless and confirms a lack of empathy with the majority who are not in his privileged financial and social position.
His proposal could almost be designed to reinforce the protection already enjoyed by the rich and powerful.
But at least there will soon be an accessible public register of members interests…….
WORTHESS as the preferable wording “effective economic ownership” was not used so members will presumably just move their interests into trusts and to proxy-shareholders and cary on as normal.
Thanks for that Mr. Bailache .
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*calling at: La Moye & London
ETA 2014
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-15596225
UK Lib Dem MP has tabled a Commons motion, accusing the island’s legislature, executive and judiciary of “political repression”.
He wants the justice secretary to appoint a commission similar to carry out an inquiry similar to that in the Turks and Caicos islands.
In his motion he said there had been “political repression of former Chief Police Officer, Graham Power and former Senator Stuart Syvret”.
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