Raise minimum wage to cut benefit costs, says Deputy
Tuesday 25th October 2011, 2:58PM BST.
Deputy Geoff Southern
JERSEY’S minimum wage should be significantly increased to wipe out the huge cost of supporting the Island’s poorest workers, Deputy Geoff Southern has said.
According to the politician, every £1 paid to the States in income tax and social security by people working at or close to the minimum wage costs the taxpayer about £3 in benefits.
The Deputy is now calling for the minimum wage to rise from its current level of £6.32 per hour to between £7.80 to £8.20 per hour to reduce the need for poorer workers to claim the support.
He said: ‘It is time to transfer the burden of this cost from the taxpayer to the employer’.
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Perhaps the Deputy will show comradely solidarity and accept only the minimum wage himself?
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Idiot!!! How does he think this will help?? How many businesses like agriculture and tourism would go bankrupt?? How many people would you then be supporting on the Benefit system????
Please think twice before thinking this is a good idea……….we are already an island with high unemployment, how much higher do you want it to go.?
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Thanks, good call, why should everybody else pay for it?
Most if not nearly all small businesses the boss will get a car, and all the other lovely benefits of being a boss, directors loans etc tax deducted off their personal taxes etc, and Joe Public has to carry the burden from both them and their staff.. Why?
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HA HA that will finish off tourism, building industry, farming and what might be left of fulfillment. So all the workers he wants to help can then claim full unemployment benefit instead. He really is crackers. Does he not get our jobs are dependent on our companies being competitive, which they only just are at present, if at all, hence the layoffs going on at present? If he wants to reduce benefits perhaps the states should slowly reduce rent rebate payments which would mean rents would have to come down slowly inline. All rent rebate does is is enrich landlords by keeping rents high, subsidised by the States. A crackers situation.
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Southern, you were roundly rejected at the previous Senator’s by-election. How about worryign about your own Parish as Deputy and leave the States wide issues to the Senators.
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Are we the taxpayer subsidising business that pay minimum wage therefore staff need to get help from social
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He, he, he. and floods in the comments of how stupid this would be. I have laughed at poor old Geoff ever since he called me a f&£%ing communist for not agreeing with his political views whilst I was a tender age of 16. Whilst the idea he gives is probably rooted in good intentions, its lined with ridiculous covered in blinkers and topped with extra clueless on economics of Jersey.
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Makes sense to me. The minimum wage should be enough to live on without needing to claim benefits.Why should the taxpayer have to meet the cost where employers don’t pay decent enough rates for a day’s work?
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If they didn’t have to put half of their income in some unregulated rent, may be they wouldn’t have to claim benefits.
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That is actually quite a good idea!!
Go for it.
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Mr Southern, if you can get the minimum wage raised up to £8.20ph I will raise a toast to you sir! However, I do feel that this would seriously effect smaller businesses in Jersey in a negative way. I think perhaps we need to look at the whole GST thing again, the price of food in Jersey and rents, which I feel are bordering on abusive.
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Hold on. I read the JEP election results and while all the Senators were making comments on Island wide issues, the Deputies were all saying their priority was traffic calming measures in their parish. What mandate does Southern have to make any proposals on Island-wide issues?
Deputies should be barred from bringing propositions on matters not wholly and solely related to their constituents. If he wants to make points affecting all Islanders, he should seek an Island wide mandate. But he lacks the courage to do so.
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its not just minimum wage earners that could do with a pay rise , but the rest of us who are not on minimum wage , yet are below the bonkers average wage that the goverment feel exists for average joe or joanna.
the no bonus , no bupa , just holidays brigade .
i do feel like i am treading water at the moment , price of food , rent and electricity as it is ( gst)
marc jones(5) , we need to look at the island as a whole , not a collection of villages.
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This is not as good an idea as people may think because if the minimum wage is raised to £8 per hour then hotels/tourism will have to raise prices for accommodation, outside bookings for restaurants etc.
This then creates the scenario where people will not holiday on the island – especially if they can go elsewhere for cheaper. If we are not getting tourists coming over, the taxes will have to rise.
It’s a vicious circle – lower the GST and food prices etc and then people will have enough to manage on
Simple really
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p.s following on from post 11
I am on the minimum wage but I am realistic enough to know where there has to be limits
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Placing the burden onto small businesses making more people unemployed. Great logic there deputy.
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Why do they claim benefits ?
Because they can!
And VICKI,
Yes the boss as a nice car , because he studied,worked, invest his money and gamble it to open his business.
You can’t expect the same if you do not have any qualification, taken a risk, and worked hard.
My first jobs were on the minimum wage (£5.20), and like the Polish now,I managed and made my way up.
This is a bad idea, and will eventually kill the few remaining struggling businesses.
Not really fair on the one who studied hard to get a good job.
And If I was a supervisor on £9.00/hour, I would go direct to my boss and ask for more money, as the guy who just walked in the door gets now almost the same as me.
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He has a good point. It makes sense to quantify the true costs of so-called cheap labour and the lower paying industries. If the costs outweigh the gains then it would be very worthwhile indeed to know with certainty.
If I were to employ a housekeeper on the minimum wage (for example)and that person then needed income support my housekeeping would effectively be being subsidised by others. That’s a simple analysis but it demonstrates why the issue should be looked at.
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Even better way.
Stop the benefits.
Stop immigration and let some of the locals have a job that put money BACK into the economy.
The firm I work for had a phone call last week from a gentleman of eastern european descent asking us if we had any vacancies. The job he came over here for (to work on a building site) he did not like.
Nice to see the immigration “polishy” working.
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The biggest issue is that Social Security, Income Tax and the Minimum wage forum have no idea exactly how many people are on the minimum wage. Until this can be ascertained the whole issue is pointless.
Once we know how many people are on the minimum wage and if they are residents of the island then we can move forward.
Slightly stupid looking at a wholesale wage rise at a time when people are cutting employment. We don’t want to go the way of the USA and find everyone is only offered short term contracts with no employment security. We also don’t want to see university students unable to get work because there is no student rate in the law.
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While I don’t generally agree with Mr Southern, he has a point ! Low paid workers actually cost the taxpayer money, as the workers themselves don’t pay much income tax, because the lower paid still receive personal allowances of sorts, and if they have children in the school system, there is a cost to educating them. (One poster on this forum once said that a couple on £17,000 per year, with two children in school actually cost the taxpayer around £15,000 per annum, which under 0 / 10 means that money comes from taxpayers through the payment of ITIS and GST.)
There is therefore little benefit to the island financially, by encouraging industries such as agriculture and fulfillment which rely on low paid workers.
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@kermit, obviously you are another that merits success on belongings and working ones way up in other ways other than just honest hard work LOL bits of paper to say one has studied does not always mean one has the skills to do the job, anyhow seeing as you have taken this out of context I will ignore your silly excuse of a comnent
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One last thing boo hoo..join the queue @ Kermit
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It will also provide jobs for locals
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We have a benefit system problem caused by the States paying so much that record numbers do not bother to work.
As usual the solution to a problem created by the States is to dump even more costs on to the working sectors.
I wonder how long this ex teacher would last in a real job?
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I agree that the minimum wage should be at least £8, to be able to afford to live on this very expensive Island and I really don’t understand how people can possibly exist on a lower wage than that!
I’m currently unemployed and receiving Income Support, but there is no way that I could possibly afford to pay my rent and bills, as well as buy essential grocery items on the current minimum wage!
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Playing devil’s advocate would someone please explain to me how someone on minimum wage can live.
A forty hour week produces approx. £252 less income tax and social security, take home circa £184, lodgings £100 per week, assuming no other outgoings, heating, bus travel (can’t afford a car), £84 a week for food, clothing etc, etc – WOW !!!
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boohoo join the queue…. sounds like an 8 year old! Vary childish and not very constructive!
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27 Mogit: someone on minimum wage will not usually be paying 20% ITIS, unless they have tax debts from better times. Their take home is more likely to be in a £220 ball-park, for a disposable income of £120pw. Not good for a family’s sole breadwinner, but enough for a singleton to get by comfortably on.
12 Donald: you are usually one of the sharpest minds on this forum, but you are way off the mark here. Deputies are elected BY the parish or district to serve the States of JERSEY, i.e. they are the local choice to deal with island-wide issues. Parish matters are dealt with locally by Parish Assemblies of everyone who can be bothered to go, under the chairmanship of their Constable. Island matters are for the States, of which Deputies are Members.
And to the headline issue, assuming Income Support levels have been calculated properly, then we can calculate what a minimum wage should be by adding a modest premium, to stop people thinking “Why bother?” to the weekly Income Support total. \which probably comes out at less than £8/hr. (If I am allowed the link, I discussed this at more length at http://jdacmb.blogspot.com/2010/02/different-angle-on-minimum-wages.html )
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Seriously if he doesn’t realise the massive negative implications for the island’s economy in doing this he shouldn’t be in the States. I am a medium sized business owner in hospitality and I can tell you now that we would in no way be able to continue our business if the minimum wage is raised to that level. On top of the minimum wage there is 6.5% employer social contribution plus at least 4% for holidays so you could be looking at over £9.00 per hour. Ok so the restaurants and hotels had a reasonable summer but for many at the moment it is a very difficult time. The cost of food and drink , utilities, high rents etc all unfortunately make it very hard to balance the books. Could we employ less staff? Well that would be 1 option to get by if the rate is set that high. Would we be able to offer the same quality and service? Not a chance! Yes hospitality relies on workers from outside of Jersey and trust me if we could get local staff to even apply for our jobs we’d be delighted, but even after spending a fortune advertising in the JEP for staff with 5 years residency we had no local applicants. Most of our staff wouldn’t qualify for income support, they all pay their tax and social security contributions and I don’t think any of them intend to stay in the island for the long term. We would have no customers if we raised our prices high enough to cover the staff costs, so unless GST is decreased, rents are reduced, utilities are at least half the cost they are now and the cost of food and drink is at an all time low the majority of the hospitality and therefore tourism industry will be wiped out. Thanks Mr Southern!
And by the way in response to previous comments being the boss to us means that we work up to 18 hours a day, we have to cancel our time off (if we get any that is) if there is the slightest problem, our house which we bought when previously employed is used as security for the massive loans we had to borrow to start the business and of course we pay tax. We took a massive gamble taking on our own business and if ridiculous ideas like Mr Southerns take affect we will lose everything. And if that doesn’t happen then one day we hope to have lovely things and go on nice holidays etc. I think we will have earned it!
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Well, how short sighted is this guy……….more expenses for the already strapped businesses ……..how about sending back the non locals when they loose their jobs……a quick payment and save money in the long run
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Do we really need idiots like this in the States?
Is Mr Southern a puppet on a string?
It sound a great idea ? Buttttttt its not logical.
God help us if this is the mentality of OUR future
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First of all let’s not forget the min wage is a godsend to horticulture and fulfilment industry; a throw back to the slave plantation days where workers were exploited.
As a horticultural worker I have watched those in charge drive around in huge expensive vehicles take exotic holidays. With some highly intelligent foreign workers willing to take min wage, the employers would be against any increase.
That said, I would like a college solely teaching technical studies, apprenticeship in all trades. Those that are out of work should be given a chance to earn more then job seekers allowance by taking up one of the trades.
This would allow local companies to employ from the island the skills needed, and reduce imported workers.
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OK look at it this way,
Let’s say I start a business and then ask all of you to make up my staff’s wages as i’m not paying them enough to cover their rent and living expenses. I imagine the common response would end in “off”.
Yet this is what we do for many companies as the minimum wage rate is so low, via rent rebate and benefits.
As for the idea that no rent rebate would lower rents,before state support and benefits were introduced people often had to borrow money to pay their rents and often became trapped in debt for the rest of their lives or until they entered the workhouse.
Also we cannot deny entry to polish or portugese people as we are part of GB and they have the right to work here.
So we can moan about it and subsidise supermarkets and high street chain stores or we could have a “living wage”.
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“We have a benefit system problem caused by the States paying so much that record numbers do not bother to work”
That’s right! Just because there are less jobs being advertised than at anytime in the last decade doesn’t mean there aren’t hundreds of employers out there ready to employ everybody.
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How much do you pay your staff Hospitality?
Could a local person with a family and a mortgage live on those wages? Or would they need state assistance?
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I hope you will one day have lovely things and go on nice holidays too Hospitality.
The thing is, and I don’t mean to be rude here, when you say “our house which we bought when previously employed is used as security for the massive loans we had to borrow to start the business and of course we pay tax.” You took that gamble based on the idea you could pay minimum wage.
But the problem is that we, the public, subsidise your staff one way or the other. maybe not rent rebate but through sick pay, health care and the like which your staff will not be able to contribute towards as they don’t earn enough to return much in tax or social security.
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@30, Sorry but you shoudl stand and fall on your own efficiency and ability. That is what the free market is all about. If you were silly enough to load yourself up with unmanageable debt in an attempt to make a business that made you rich, well then that is the risk you take.
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does this guy live on the same planet!! then what will you pay the ones on £8 now and so on, what about the benifit system being looked at and stop throwing away our tax money on people who take the piss
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Darren 14 – This is not as good an idea as people may think because if the minimum wage is raised to £8 per hour then hotels/tourism will have to raise prices for accommodation, outside bookings for restaurants etc.
There is an alternative, they could make slightly less profit. Business owners don’t strike me as paupers, they drive expensive cars, live in big houses and pay more tax than we earn. I remember in the early 90′s when work was tight in the building industry being told by my boss that we would no longer be having a break during the day his words were “we have to tighten our belt” I asked which he planned to do first sell his Merc or concrete in his swimming pool, I was let go shortly thereafter.
If we accept that the cost of living in jersey is higher then whatever percentage that is there should be a corresponding increase in our minimum wage, the UK is I believe £6.08 an hour if the cost of living is 20% higher then it should be £7.30 or thereabouts, as for hospitality & agriculture – you don’t see any poor hoteliers or farmers do you.
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its not a role of government to set salaries. government should get out of the way downsize itself, low tax and less red tape. Government should support business to create jobs, not kill them off
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31:
How about letting them leave of their own accord……immediate saving
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Rent freeze required. Why must we continue to effectively pay landlords through income support ? They never have to think about restraint as many have annual cost of living rises in the leases.
Do we hear any politicians urging rent restraint – no. Do they urge wage restraint even when they have made a massive contribution to inflation through GST – YES.
I do not pay rent so have no vested interest and to those who have mortgages you got an effective cash boost when interest rates fell.
Adios Companeros
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Unemployment rising so let’s increase labour costs to the employers. Brilliant. Oh Geoff. Geoff, Geoff, Geoff.
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@ VICKY
Obviously you have no diplomas, you believe that you are 10 times better than your boss (who pays your wages), jealous of his car and believing that the world owe you because you are a local. GROW UP
Unlike you, I don’t expect a thing from anyone (specially the States), and I believe everybody make their own choices in life.
So if you want your boss life style, do something about it.
@36 ALEC BURG
“Could a local person with a family and a mortgage live on those wages?”
SHOULD BE MORE LIKE:
How are you allowed to have a mortgage on the minimum wage specially when you have some kids ?
Same as Vicky, is it because you are a local that you can have as many kids as you want and expect the others (tax payers) to pay for your lifestyle?
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re 40
That is true but I am thinking more in terms of the circle that will undoubtedly be caused.
You will have the situation where the workers (and I count myself in that bracket) are paid £8 per hour. This will therefore mean in the hospitality industry (cant speak for other industries as I dont work in those) that fewer staff doing more hours and having to take lieu days later in the season or accommodation charges and restaurant prices having to rise to pay for the increase in wages.
Either way is fraught with problems as either there will be a higher turnover of staff who do not want to work 50 plus hours etc or holidaymakers having to pay quite a substantial rise in the costs for their holiday (possibly up to £10 per day) and that does not include any restaurants they may wish to visit during their time on the island.
It is a tricky situation and there has to be a better way to sort this issue out. As I say, I am on the minimum wage and nothing would give me greater pleasure to have a wage increase to allow me the luxury of doing additional things but I am realistic enough to know that this would be a bad idea – maybe they should go the GST route and do the increase in stages
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Just a thought:
An immigrant on the minimum wage should not be able to claim benefits for a start.
So all seasonal workers should be out of the equation.
So if locals find themselves in that situation ( with the help of the 5 years residency), it means that some should have spent more time reading some books, or attend special classes in Highland college rather than Chambers and Les Folie d’ Amour.
Why is there not a school for nurses, plumbers, electricians and more at Highland college?
States can give £800 000 in golden handshake but cannot create a few job in teaching real needed jobs!
Basically, spend the money in training locals to have a better job. Give them the opportunity to improve themselves.If they fail, they are the only one to blame. Therefore they can work for £6.20/hour and the only thing they will have to claim will be the extra hours of over time to their bosses if they want to buy a bigger TV.
If your job does not provide for your needs get a part time job as well. It is called : hard working
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What is the relationship between the minimum wage and the population of the island? Does minimum wage business assist the Island? I don’t think fulfilment has brought much to the Island. Agriculture has created a few multi-millionaires (one of whom was recently receiving over 32m a year in land grants from the States) but does it benefit the Island (my borehole water, for example, has levels of pollution outside of EU limits as a direct result of agricultural activity).
Isn’t the answer in discouraging jobs that require unskilled labour and encouraging the unskilled to get skilled, rather than trying to make unskilled labour pay well?
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£6.32 is not a living wage it should be higher or if the states had any common sense they would look at ways of forcing down import/export costs and prices locally. Wages could then be reduced accordingly a win-win for everyone. It would also make the island much more competitive.
I believe rent rebate should be removed and landlords forced to rent property at lower levels. They would still make a profit but not as high as they do now.
As Marc Jones has pointed out free market economics are what capitalism is all about. State subsidies affect free market prices.
MLP quite right these business owners could afford to pay more and they should.
You are also right that “tighten your belts” refs to the work force not the bosses.
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Kermit@45, that’s quite a strange response.
SHOULD BE MORE LIKE:
How are you allowed to have a mortgage on the minimum wage specially when you have some kids ?
is it because you are a local that you can have as many kids as you want and expect the others (tax payers) to pay for your lifestyle?”
Well starting from the top. It wasn’t a personal question, I was hinting that should an individual lose their job, the hospitality industry is not a viable alternative, due to the low pay. So, it would be possible that someone with a mortgage would have to take a minimum wage job if nothing else was available.
As for the nasty little insult at the end. I have a degree, I work and pay my taxes and ,so far, the only benefits I have ever claimed is 2 weeks sick pay around 8 years ago. I would like to save taxpayers money from subsidising chain stores and supermarkets.
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Alecberg – We actually pay all staff more than the minimum wage and always have. Our Kitchen Porters are on the lowest wage and yes I expect that if a kitchen porter was the bread winner for their family then they would find it difficult. However, we support staff through training and education to develop their skills and therefore will promote them as they develop. As for the other members of staff and please note that we do employ locals albeit only around 30%. They are on a rate of pay which is sufficient for them to live in privately rented accommodation, own cars and they all manage to have nice holidays etc. In fact one of our ‘unqualified staff’ has recently moved in to unqualified rented accommodation which costs more than our mortgage! So I’m sure a local family could manage on the wages. Our problem would not be so much with paying kitchen porters the minimum wage, it would be paying managers, supervisors etc the comparable increase who are all on a higher wage. When you set up a business, you base your figures on percentages of your turnover i.e. cost of goods, utilities, staffing etc. We set up the business before the global recession started, before GST, before the major increases in the cost of oil etc. So in these difficult times it is a lot tighter than when we first started out. As for sick pay, health care etc – do us locals not receive the same if we work in the uk for example? The only staff member we’ve had who has been on 0% ITIS was a local part timer who wouldn’t work more than a couple of hours per week as it would affect his tax and social!! And what about the large number of staff who come over to the island just for the summer, they all contribute and I doubt that they all ‘use’ the system during that time. Plus I think you have to live in Jersey for 6 months before getting subsidised GP visits etc.
Marc Jones -We set up our own business because selfishly we wanted a family. For us to pay our mortgage and live in Jersey we would both have had to work full time, but the cost of childcare would basically have eaten up one of our wages and finding childcare that covered the hours we worked would nearly be impossible, plus we didn’t really want other people bringing up our children. So yes we took a gamble, not to get rich, but to make a living and support our family and our debts are manageable as the economy lies at the moment – my comment about ‘lovely’ things was in response to an earlier comment. Our business contributes to the economy, we buy local, we would employ local if people applied, we pay GST we help attract visitors to the island and provide a great service to locals. Should local people stop taking risks and allow the big corporate UK companies to take Jersey over completely?
Yes there are a lot of rich business owners about, but there are also many struggling. Those who made it in hospitality in its heyday did very well, sadly though, the good times are long gone.
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@Marie.. yes very childish but at times you do need to bring yourself down to a level where the intelligence is that of an eight year old when dealing with people who behave like spoilt children and make the assumption that they are the next big shot without any repercussions or the social responsibility that the taxpayer is continually subsidizing . Boo hoo join the queue is very fitting to be frank, a lot of foreigners do not understand dry humor or sarcasm, it is taken out of context and to a whole different level (which makes my skin crawl along with some of the ideals they have).
It is not anyones god given right assume the abuse of a taxation system is acceptable by any means. A majority of locals work very hard and are so over listening to the likes who think it okay to take all the time and not put anything back. Just look at the Euro Crisis a prime example of the abuse of a taxation system and we have a fair few of them living here. Is that mature enough for you?
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51 ‘Those who made it in hospitality in its heyday did very well, sadly though, the good times are long gone’
The ‘good times’ then shifted in favour of those playing fast and loose with – sorry, looking after – other peoples money.
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Kermit you are hilarious…
I don’t care for either big cars, or do I think I am better than my boss, we also happen to have an extremely lovely car
,neither do I expect the taxpayer to bail me out, I may be Vicki Pollard by name (tongue in cheek) but certainly not by nature. Some people with half a brain are not driven by material gain or the desire to keep aspiring to the lateral equation of ‘success’, some of us merit success in different ways and achievements.
I, like my boss (who is a really nice guy actually) am just a genuine, hard working honest individual, which I am quite proud and fortunate enough to say supports me for my experience and as a person. Not just for a load of qualifications that are meaningless if the ability to put theory into practice makes them defunct anyhow.
I did smile when I saw your last comment it has to be said.. feeling quite smug to see that you have got it so wrong and me as a person, this is a forum for opinion. I obviously hit a raw nerve pointing out some of the things that most small business owners over here take advantage of.
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This just in, Deputy southerns new plan to save the economy – Just print more money, problem solved.
What a joke, does this guy even have a basic understanding of economics??
We need to get the cost of living in Jersey down. not drive prices up. how do you do that? well its a simple case of supply and demand, there are too many people here all trying to get that same things (Housing being the main one) This drives the prices up higher and higher for housing while the increase in workforce means wages can get lower and lower. and those on low wages dont pay taxes but do cost the taxpayer.
Immigration is where it all needs to start. Why is someone not on this? Lets see all people stepping off the boat proving they already have a job offer, working permits, has registered with the local authorities (IncTax, social etc) and is going to contribute to the island. Not just provide another cheap pair of hands.
And if they are not fulfilling a vacancy that could not be filled locally then sorry but there no room at the inn. WE ARE FULL!
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October 27, 2011 at 10:08 am
Vicki – I, like my boss (who is a really nice guy actually) am just a genuine, hard working honest individual.
Well honest and hard working except at 9.43am & 10.08am when instead of working your are accessing the internet to post your drivel.
Half a brain is about right, your intellect is best measured with a micrometer, if your IQ was 10 points higher you’d be an idiot.
There are a handful of ill informed barely literate individuals who regularly post on this forum. Ecstatic to have discovered an outlet for their ramblings other than their hen pecked significant other who doubtless ceased listening years ago.
Some of your earlier gems – 3 Most if not nearly all small businesses the boss will get a car,
Ahem isn’t most and nearly all the same thing.
22 anyhow seeing as you have taken this out of context I will ignore your silly excuse of a comnent
Not sure what a comnent is but if we assume you mean comment then you do precisely the opposite and instead of ignoring you post immediately afterwards with at 23 with “One last thing boo hoo..join the queue @ Kermit”
Not the last thing though because at 24 you say “It will also provide jobs for locals”
Whoops you’re back again at 52 “@Marie.. yes very childish but at times you do need to bring yourself down to a level where the intelligence is that of an eight year old when dealing with people who behave like spoilt children and make the assumption that they are the next big shot without any repercussions or the social responsibility that the taxpayer is continually subsidizing . Boo hoo join the queue is very fitting to be frank, a lot of foreigners do not understand dry humor or sarcasm, it is taken out of context and to a whole different level (which makes my skin crawl along with some of the ideals they have).
It is not anyones god given right assume the abuse of a taxation system is acceptable by any means. A majority of locals work very hard and are so over listening to the likes who think it okay to take all the time and not put anything back. Just look at the Euro Crisis a prime example of the abuse of a taxation system and we have a fair few of them living here. Is that mature enough for you?”
And there you are again at 54 for the very, very, nearly last till next time.
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Kermit you concentrate on climbing up the slippery pole that you chose to. I will just have fun watching you and many like you slide down it
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Vicki
Not sure what foreigners have to do with it – slightly random comment?
Look at the times that hospitality has posted his comments and look at the times you have posted – that is why small business owners who take the risk are worth everything they make.
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darren@14.
so what your saying is let these people live on the bread line just to keep tourism coming in.so all the top nobs are ok raking in loads of money, but not the hard working staff yeah.
how would you feel with that then darren if you was on the minnium wage you be okay with that
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Thanks for your answer Hospitality,and may I say that you sound like one of the better employers and I really hope you make a go of your business. You are right the island needs local companies to thrive, not just for local colour but as the base of our economy. (The hospitality industry cannot transfer it’s work out like finance can.)
I take your point about health care and i’m sure we’re on a great deal with seasonal workers, who tend to be young and healthy.
But I believe my point still stands, the reason non-locals are the primary source of labour in the industry is because Hospitality work does not pay a living wage for islanders.
And if local people can’t take the jobs outsiders are brought in, raising the population,rents etc. (The fact that one of your staff pays more in rent than your mortgage shows how ridiculous the situation has become.)
As this is an anonymous forum can you tell the average wage you pay? It might help illuminate the debate somewhat.
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JerseyBoy,
You are right about overpopulation but the way I understand it we cannot refuse entry to EU nationals as we are bound by Westminster’s commitments to free movement through the EU.
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The Eejit 56 brilliant insightful post, you will find that coherant and Vicki rarely occupy the same space. Marie precisely I’m guessing that Vicki is one of the “lazy locals” defensive of her position and threatened by anyone with a work ethic, posting at 0943 – 10.08 and 15.41, do you manage to find time in your busy day for work?
I’m retired btw although you seem to occupy a semi retired position.
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Meanwhile, at the top of the tree, Directors salaries rise by 50% this year..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15487866
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One way a few jobs could be curated,
Everyone who claims unemployment at social should be made to turn up to work for the people of Jersey a 4 days a week.
say start at 8am (not pm) and finish at 5.30pm like most people with full time employment. I here the beaches need cleaning, Durrel need work doing. I am sure this would solve at least 60% of the claiments.
If Mr Sourthern put as much effort into supporting struggling industries that would be a better way forward.
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re 59
I am on the minimum wage and single and I work damn hard thank you very much – currently I have had 3 days away from my work place in terms of holiday this season but that is not the issue. I have not claimed benefit for nearly 10 years but again that is not the issue.
In the industry I work in (again I cannot speak for other industries) it is very cutthroat in terms of competition and I regularly do long hours especially at this time of the season. The fact of the matter is if this increase (which should be gradual) happens I see more hours been done by fewer staff and probably with higher turnover of said staff.
The other aspect is that people visiting the island will be put off by the increase of tariffs for hotels and also visiting restaurants etc. If this is the case and I am sure it will be, then more businesses will cease or have to cut their cloth accordingly therefore meaning less staff or lighter opening hours.
I would love to have an increase but it is not the answer. The best option is to bring the prices down for living – surely that is common sense.
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There are incredibly rich farmers and hoteliers here ..all have made vast amounts on the backs of workers many who at 5 star establishments have to work up to and past midnight and then be on for the breakfast shift as well 16 hour days are nothing…Farmers driving new Jags with their workers living in sheds…planning have turned a blind eye to these things for years..there is a serious moral issue here….simply the rich lording it over the poor….the only comforting thing being they won’t take one ten pence piece in their cold white hand when their time comes…
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Alec Berg if Jersey put restrictions on UK nationals entering Jersey these could then be applied to the rest of the EU. However as the authorities won’t do it Jersey has no option but to allow access to all EU nationals.
Alec I would expect the wage to be between £7.00 and £9.00 probably at the lower end maybe hospitality could confirm this? Anyway this isn’t much especially when tax breaks are taken into account where a business gets 20% of wages offset against profits along with any other running costs associated with their employees.
At the end of the day if you pay poor wages you will tend to get immigrant labour doing these jobs it is exactly the same in the UK, USA and anywhere else you would care to look at. Antone who says differently is either ill-informed or a liar.
Breadline wages mean an added burden to welfare, more costs ref rent rebate and other assistance etc. Not good for those paying taxes in Jersey but very good for businesses making use of this labour to maximise profits.
Businesses love immigration as it means an excess of labour which forces down wages instead of holding wages at a more realistic level for the average worker.
Reduced wages mean less tax is paid or to maintain existing services other existing taxes/other taxes have to be raised to make up the difference.
In a so called civilised society everyone has a social responsibility and the higher up the food chain the greater the responsibility and not where greed is rewarded with yet more meanwhile others starve to death through want.
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61:
How come the IOM can refuse anyone they like?
In fact, some are put straight back on the boat even if the boat has come from the UK and is bound for Ireland.
There are also no benefits whatsoever until you have beed a resident for 5yrs. This includes sick & holiday pay.
Is their economy suffering because of this approach?….NO
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Colin 64 – “One way a few jobs could be curated”,
You want to provide the clergy with assistants?
“I here the beaches need cleaning”
I HEAR you can’t spell
“I am sure this would solve at least 60% of the claiments”.
The claimants need solving, what are they a puzzle?
If English isn’t your first language then this is forgivable, if however it is – head straight to primary school, do not pass go, do not collect £200.
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spelling bee(69) , it matters not is a poster fails to spell a word correctly, it is the message that counts .
good comment pauper(33) train locals , problem is the local firms , need work to take them on .
back in the day , you needed to be working for a firm to go to highlands college , and if you were on a course , let,s say a electrian , you were off the course if becoming unemployed.
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Wobbly – The IOM cannot ‘put them on a boat’ – EU nationals have the same rights in the IOM as they do in the UK and Jersey, Guernsey etc. In terms of Non-EU nationals, they are subject to UK immigration laws.
I thought we clarified this?
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“Alec Berg if Jersey put restrictions on UK nationals entering Jersey these could then be applied to the rest of the EU. However as the authorities won’t do it Jersey has no option but to allow access to all EU nationals”
I suppose the reason they won’t restrict UK nationals is in case the UK government decided to repay the compliment and restrict our access to the UK.
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Alec that wouldn’t be an issue as the UK takes all and sundry anyway. And how many Jersey people as defined by the EU would this affect? As there are only 4-5k involved I bet it would be next to zero.
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