Police Chief: ‘Bar will not be lowered for local officers’
Tuesday 22nd November 2011, 2:58PM GMT.
Home Affairs Minister Ian Le Marquand
THE bar will not be lowered to make it easier for local police officers to rise to the top of the States force, the Home Affairs Minister has said.
However, Senator Ian Le Marquand stressed that promising Islanders would be given the support, training and experience they needed to be eligible to become either the chief or deputy chief officer.
And he insisted that the parachuting in of senior policemen from the UK was being reviewed to give greater opportunity to home-grown talent.
The minister made the comments in response to a report on police succession-planning by backbenchers sitting on the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny panel.
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Great job the Jersey police
City of London pay plus
Where are they?. Little violence and crime and plenty of cocoa at the station
Pay beyond the private sector plus dreamland pension
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No bars need to be lowered,our officers are intelligent and well trained and more than capable for the top jobs.
Well done Senator Le Marquand for listening to public views – let’s see it happening in other States departments.
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The question has to be asked, do we lower the bar for local politicians ?
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Nice one ! lol
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No because it’s already at ground level.
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I don’t think anyone would be asking that. It would merely suffice if the discrimination against the Jersey people were to be stopped. That is all that anyone would reasonably ask for.
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It is an interesting view that a small Island like Jersey should be capable of producing ideal candidates for all types of jobs. By comparison imagine what sort of team Manchester United would have if they limited their selection to players born within 5 miles of Old Trafford.
Jersey aspires to be up with the best of the rest and rightly so; to create a handicap of not being able to recruit the best people is doing no one any favours.
In many cases the right sort of development for locally qualified people is to go and work in other parts of the UK (or the world) so as to be exposed to challenges and situations that would probably occur only infrequently within the Island. Even then the local candidate should be judged on equal terms with non local applicants against merit based job selection criteria.
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5; When you say “other parts of the UK”, that suggests that you think that Jersey is part of the UK. It isn’t, my friend.
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Maybe s/he should have said “other parts of the British Isles.” But it is true, you can’t expect the ideal job to fall into your lap if you’re determined to stay within a 9 mile radius of your current home. Likewise you can’t create a world class business or service if you only recruit from a small population. People will need to go and work away, get experience and then return (if they wish) with skills to benefit the island.
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I should hope that the bar is not lowered for any prospective candidates. Since the minimum height was done away with, we have seen more and more stumpy officers. If the bar is lowered still further, we will have officers of Ronnie Corbettesque proportions; all very well for paperwork (which is what most of them seem to do these days) but what about the eviction of rowdy drunks and all the other things that proper policing used to be about?
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The height restriction was a nonesense really, smaller people can still be physically imposing enough to sort a situation out. What puzzles me is that there seem to be quite a few “rubenesque” police kicking about. And they are young ones, so not formerly fit coppers gone to seed! You cant tell me PC Snickers will be able to run down a lithe druggie…..
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Plagne # 1. In my 17 years in the States of Jersey Police I was personally involved in six murder investigations, two robberies and numerous serious assaults. I also served in the police in the U.K. and believe me when I say policing in Jersey is not a piece of cake.
As for the difference in salaries between the U.K. and Jersey; I think you’ll find most occupations in Jersey command higher pay scales. The last I heard was Jersey’s cost of living was ca 20 % highter than in the U.K., that’s why the police salaries are higher.
When we speak of lowering the bar, it is a pity this didn’t also
apply to the bureaucrats and political masters in Home Affairs.
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‘I think you’ll find most occupations in Jersey command higher pay scales’ – Yes, in the Public Sector.
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Do you think you should get payed more than a soldier in Afghanistan ?
17 years in Jersey: six murder investigations, two robberies and numerous serious assaults is more less the same as one week in Liverpool.
I grew up in a few police headquarters over the years as Daddy was in the force back home(and many more relatives). Never seen a posh car in the staff car park. I could earn more in a pub in a busy week than my dad after so many years of service.
So 40K+ for a newbie with pension and healthcare to investigate a murder every 3 years, a robbery every 8 years, and spend every week end cruising around town to do a doorman s job:I say EASY
I did 1 claim to the Police for vandalism on my vehicle which was parked in front of the car park camera.
Never found the person responsible and I wasn’t allowed to view the footage ever.
The day my pushbike was stolen, I didn’t bother wasting my time at he HQ. The day my Mrs s bike was gone I didn’t bother either.
You are so well paid that the States can’t afford to pay you to do your paperwork and we are having to get civil secretaries to do it for you.
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Kermit, you should see the Audi Q7 4×4 vehicle, the Chief Constable has in the Force area where I now live in the U.K.
Also it is churlish to say the crime rate in Merseyside, is as high as you say it is. If there were six murders a week in Liverpool, that would be about 50% of the entire annual murder rate of the U.K. – nonsense.
By the way don’t talk to me about what soldiers get paid, I did two tours in Ulster looking for I.E.Ds and one in Oman. When I left H.M.Forces, I actually took a drop in pay to join the police.
I am now a pensioner and can’t answer your query on why your complaints of crime were investigated to your satisfaction. I don’t know what it’s like nowadays, however in my day we did all our own paperwork. Maybe the changes are due to changes brought about by senior officers brought in from the U.K.
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Totally agree – Most of teh local coppers I know are more interested in the salary and pension, rather than going for a top position. For a local to get to the top, they would have to spend time off island, on a reduced salary and I dont think that is likely to happen.
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Elite footballers don’t really equate to ordinary working people, so not a good analogy really.
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#1 Plagne. There isn’t a ‘dreamland pension.’ And as for pay, Blue Knight has answered that, but to compare, Guernsey pay UK salaries and they can’t fill the slots so have to pay Devon officers to come over for five years
# 2 Annie “our officers…are more than capable for the top jobs” How on earth did you come to that conclusion? One sits in isolation with no portfolio as he is useless, One recently retired ‘top’ officer of many years service got 3 pounds in his collection and most of the up-and-comings are the heritage of the Management From Hell; do nothing, say nothing and you’ll rise.
#9 Warren J – you don’t have to spend time off the Island to rise through the ranks.
#7 Major BB – size is less important than intelligence.
You can all sleep safely in beds because the Police do acts of violence on your behalf.
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Blue Knight
Wow, that’s one serious crime every couple of years, no wonder you left, the stress must have been immense!!
My godfather was a sergeant in the Metropolitan Police CID, I’d say he saw more action in an average 17 days than you saw in 17 years.
Policing in the Channel Islands is generally a piece of cake, despite protestations to the contrary from serving or ex officers striving to stress the pressure of the job.
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Phil, look at my response to Kermit at 8 above; you are talking nonsense. I also served in a Police Force in a busy city in the U.K. before moving to Jersey. I can assure you it was just as busy in Jersey in my day, as it was in that Force.
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Phil I also served in a city in a U.K. police force before transferring to Jersey, so I know you are talking nonsense. When I first moved to Jersey, I was as busy – if not more so, than in the U.K. I’d rate the efficiency of most Jersey cops from my era above that of many in the U.K. I’d certainly rate their worth above those I see in the part of the U.K. I live in today.
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Again we attack the Police. Easy targets. Blue night refers soley to the upper end serious crimes that he was part of investigating. What he has not bored you all with is the multitude of other very stressful incidents that an officer will deal with on a day to day basis. Look at the courts people. How do you think all those cases get there? drunks, violent drunks, serious assaults, serious domestic assaults, neighbour disputes, deaths, drugs, acquisitive crime, serious road crashes, the list goes on and on and only those ignorant of the tasks carried out twenty four hours everyday stand and snipe. Despite the list Jersey is a safe place though and it is in the main due to the quality of the states and honorary officers who police the island. And if you think the job is that easy you can always apply to join, assuming you have the moral fortitude to do so, then you too can aspire to the higher office of Chief.
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I couldn’t afford the pay cut Sandra love!!
I repeat, policing in the Channel Islands is generally a piece of cake compared to UK cities, of course they have to deal with the occasional serious incident, that’s the nature of the job. What did they think they were signing up for, traffic duty?
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Phil
What expert knowledge do you have to make such a sweeping comment? What is youre definition of a serious incident? I would suggest that there are many many serious incidents that take place that do not make the news because they are not headline grabbing.
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Sandra, you just gave the policeman job description.
All you listed are in conjunction with Social services, ambulance/ fire men, and customs.Not to mention that 80% of those are alcohol related.
You forgot:
- Riots
- Car thieves
- Terrorism attack
- Armed robberies
- Prostitution
- Child exploitation
- Fake manufacturing
All of these are no where to be seen or extremely rare, therefore none of the Jersey crew could be as qualified as a UK policeman.
I still can’t justify their wages…
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As I stated the list goes on and on and is not just that which I refered to. You have listed in some cases the high end serious investigations some of which are eceptions to the everyday rule. My point is why are you all knocking the police? Especially when in the main they do a very good job.
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You naughty little Kermit; I do think you are trying to tease the cops. I have dealt with the majority of the crimes you have listed above, except for fake manufacturing – that is the remit of Trading Standards.
I have attended police many courses in
the U.K. where Jersey students often excelled and came top of the course. Officers from Jersey are also often selected to attend the FBI Academy at Quantico – I wonder if the current Chief Officer and his senior U.K. colleagues have been to this establishment in the United States?
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Well said #13 Sandra. Most of the above wouldn’t get in the Force on their spelling and grammar alone.
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You’re wrong on that one. Google the Police Standard Entrance Test and view some examples. There are 3 papers, all of which are incredibly easy. Having had some involvement with the official papers I can assure you the examples are the same standard. The Police in the UK have been astounded at just how many applicants with 1st-class Honours Degrees, ranging from English to Criminology, have failed the SET.
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Phil @12 you are so right..the average night club doorman or Taxi driver on nights suffer much more aggro and don’t have the coshes and tools or the backup………
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There are a significant number of serving officers who have never given evidence in a court. This is quite a contrast to, say, 20 years ago.
While there may aguably be good reasons for this, it highlights the lack of experience our boys and girls in blue are getting in a very important area of their job – giving evidence.
One has to wonder what other basic skills are being eroded through lack of experience.
Keep the bar high I say. We want good quality officers who have been there, seen it, done it and are wearing the T-shirt.
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The reason why things are different now, Foxtrot, is laregely because “old style committals”, where the evidence was heard at a preliminary level, have been done away with.
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That may be so Alpha, but my point is that things do change and not always for the better. It still makes me wonder what other core skills are lacking as a result of change.
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Whenever I dip into these blogs I am invariably saddened by so many of the entries, which tend to be extremely negative about everyone and everything. Certainly SoJP seems to attract more than its fair share of negative comments, with many contributors never stopping to think about how lucky we are in comparison to so many other places. SoJP is far from perfect but neither is it as wretched, corrupt and utterly incompetent as some contributors would have us all believe. As for pay comparisons I am baffled as to why the Police are constantly singled out for abuse. Right across the public sector there are pay issues and it should be remembered that every post has been evaluated against responsibilities and other factors including the working of anti-social hours. Public salaries often lag behind in times of plenty but then appear to be out of kilter when times are hard. One of the most appealing factors in the public sector pay and conditions is job security, however even that is at present under attack. As regards to comparisons of work in SoJP with the UK – there is no doubt that the job is entirely different in every order with the work in the large cities and urban conurbations – however in terms of challenges, multi-tasking and dangerous environments it features strongly in comparison to many areas up and down the UK. Undoubtedly some people will take issue with some of what I have said, however all I would ask is that contributors to a blog think before they write so that comments are worth the time reading and not just a forum for negatively and abuse.
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I didn’t realise that this was a ‘blog’, Thinker.
I’m fairly positive about that!
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Mr. Le Verdic – how pedantic. Surely its a matter of semantics.
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blogs/forums are a perfect environment for pedants Blue Knight.
…and how do you know Le Verdic is a ‘Mr’.. lol
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Playing the ‘semantics’ card doesn’t necessarily render an error correct, Blue Knight.
I wonder what would happen in relation to police and court procedures if people were to become too flexible with semantics?
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Sandra as of yet I haven’t seen any armed terrorists, drive by shootings, mass riots, burning streets, mortar attacks on government buildings and police stations, bombs blowing up in well know high street stores in Jersey.
Many in the UK police have had all this to contend with for years.
I don’t think that many in the local police force would have been able to carry on working on the front line during the miners strike for months at a time, like someone I know had to. Verbal abuse was the least of his worries.
So no local police do not have it as bad compared to many in the UK who are in the front line of the above sort of events, neither do they get as large a remuneration for doing it. I would say their stress levels are a lot higher.
Anyway as far as I am concerned firemen have a riskier job. Do they get paid more?
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Blue Knight
You must have worked in a pretty sleepy UK city if you think Jersey’s busy. My godfather was predominantly based in the West End, you’re not seriously going to suggest that Jersey’s busier than there are you?
What I don’t understand is, on the one hand you have the politicians saying how safe Jersey is, how low the crime rate is etc, and on the other you have plod and ex-plod saying that St Helier is more dangerous than big UK cities. This is probably one of the few occasions where I actually agree with the politicians!!
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Phil # 24. I didn’t say Jersey was more dangerous than London. What you must remember is London has nearly 32,000 officers in the Metropolitan Police and roughly another 1,000 in the City of London Police. Both of these organisations can call upon support from neighbouring police forces.
All things are relative and for the size of the States of Jersey Police, they used to be just as busy as they were in the city I once worked in, which wasn’t a sleepy location at all.
You should consider becoming a lawyer as you have the ability to twist what has been said. Jersey is a safe place, but it is so because of the work of the police, both Honorary and States. It doesn’t mean that the job can’t be hazardous.
Instead of trying to wind me up – which I concede is quite good fun – you should look at the facts. Study the J.E.P. and look at the sort of case that is reported on it’s pages with folk appearing in the Magistrates and Police Court. Compare this with the pages of the Evening Standard. Don’t forget to look at statistics in ratio and consider the different numbers of residents in London and Jersey and sizes of the police services involved.
As usual, any debate on policing on this discussion board, turns in to an opportunity for some to make false and misleading claims.
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Its good to see you agree with me.
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Mario, I am not sure what you mean that I agree with you. I do know that when I worked on the miners’ strike in 1984, I saw a lot of the violence was provoked by the police. There was a lot of unethical behaviour and occasions where police officers waved their pay slips in the faces of striking miners. This more often than not by officers from the Metropolitan Police.
There will always be those who criticise the police, so be it. I am happy that my assertions are truthful.The police in Jersey are more than a match for their colleagues in the U.K.
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Thank you, Foxtrot Oscar.
Cecile
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