Invalidity benefits to be slashed?
Monday 20th February 2012, 2:40PM GMT.
Social Security Minister Francis Le Gresley
BENEFITS paid to people who are unable to work because of injury or disability could be cut under a plan to claw back millions of pounds, the Social Security Minister has said.
Senator Francis Le Gresley said that about 1,000 people currently received the Invalidity Benefit, at a cost of £10 million a year.
In August 2004, the payments were meant to be replaced with short-term or long-term incapacity benefits, for which anyone who fell ill would be eligible.
But Senator Le Gresley said that the move had not been entirely successful, describing the invalidity benefit as ‘neglected’ and in need of review.
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Hit those that are down, because they can’t fight back.
This is the cry of the moral coward!
If we need to tighten our belts because of Philip Ozouf’s failed economic policies, apply it to all. 1(k)1′s down to all States workers; create the stink that will sink the current CoM!
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yeah but no.. but yeah but no…. but yeah but no.. but…. SOOOO UNNFURRR!
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Good, first bit of good news I heard, perhaps it will stop all the invalidity benefits being sent to people who claim and do not even live on the island anymore
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Perhaps if you know of anyone claiming fraudulently you should as a good citizen report it?
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I agree with you Percy, hopefully this will also stop unfairness at Social Security as some people on Invalidity Benefits are not Invalids and can do some work so should claim incapacity benefit.
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i know of people who can sit in a chair all day and smoke fags.( at taxpayers expense )
so they should be able to sit at a desk all day.
just need some desks to sit behind, doing productive work.
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I know of people who sit in a chair all day and post meaningless throwaway comments about those less fortunate than themselves. Ring any bells mister?
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If this man gets away with this it will cause hardship to many, does he think it is fun being disabled?
They can spend £12 million on a Town Park, (ladies toilets closed today because of vandalism), and they give enormous sums of money to Civil Servants in the form of “Golden Handshakes”
It seems that “screwing” the less fortunate is the way to resurrect the many misdeeds that the States are responsible for.
Income Support will be busier than ever..!!
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About Time Theres Loads Of People On This Payment That Dont Need Nor Deserve it
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cutting in the wrong places, all because our government dislikes financial acountability. the voter is very complacent.
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Not really Gino, they are not talking about LTIA, they are talking about the legacy invalidity payment from 2004. The one they just said “Yeah, you just have 100% for life”
Get them on LTIA and see them once per year in front of the medical board with backup from their GP’s, a small price to pay for financial assistance.
The ones who moan and kick off are on the make, simple.
As said in post 7, some if them are not even in the Island and get their payments.
Shocking tbh.
A lot of commenters in here have go the wrong end of the stick and think its just disability benefit etc which doesn’t exist anymore. Most claimants are on LTIA and are closely monitored by SS. This lot are on legacy payments as the Politicians of the day were too scared to do anything ballsey like take it away or force them to LTIA.
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Gino, what is good for one is good for all. If your on LTIA you have to see the board once a year and be assessed and are rarely given a hundred percent, however on Invalidity you just get one hundred percent and are forgotten about. I have the same illness as a friend she gets a hundred percent on invalidity and I only get twenty percent even though I have proven I am just as ill as she is. If you had one system you would not have this problem. GST and Christmas Bonus is given only to those on Invalidity or one hundred percent LTIA.
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About time too, get them on LTIA, assess them and work with their GPs to make sure the recipients are deserving of this benefit.
Some of them are not even in the Island, which is a bloody joke tbh. Why should they get payments when they are not even here?
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Great move to start on the scroungers who do not deserve it.
Interesting thought that it has been too easy to obtain?
To those who deserve it, i wish them the best.
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Plagne, if there is no work there will be unemployed!
Glad to hear that you appear able to find all the work that Jersey needs, both for the locals and our vast immigrant population! Or are you talking out for your backside?
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Just because theres no work that is a right to claim benefit? NO! it is not. I think you are the one who is talking out of his rear Mark
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No Dogged. The current pressure on the Social Security system, the ‘too easy to obtain’ has at its root Jersey’s economic problems. In the good times ‘scroungers ‘ did not exist, in the main, they were in work. Cutting the level of benefits to the genuinely disabled will not create any work, it will just hit the disabled.
Where there are genuine ‘scroungers ‘, and I am sure there are some , this been to be tackled at the medical assessment stage.
If a claimant has a genuine medical condition which cannot be faked, why should they have their benefits cut?
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Those figures don’t add up. They equate to £10k/person/p.a. Full sick benefit only comes to around £10k max.
Since they brought in the sliding scale to cut payments made to the long term sick most are under 100% anyway unlike pre 2004.
It looks to me that the system is reaching breaking point if they are thinking of slashing these allowances yet further.
£180/week is not a massive amount to survive on and thats only paid to those with a 100% rating. Many are only getting a small percentage of this as it is.
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Well said Mario.
Thanks to the economic mess claims are going up whilst Philip Ozouf is cutting the tax bill of the rich. Barmy.
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£180 is not bad if your flat is paid for by the states…
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Some get a lot less than £180/week. Anyone on 50% only gets £90/week. Not all live in states housing some may be struggling to pay their mortgage but they are at least making an effort to be independent of the state.
Cut too much and they might take the easy option and let the state fund their complete lifestyle. Why should they bother when they see both ends of the spectrum making use of the system to their own personal advantage?
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£180 pw pp plus rent paid, not bad really, oh yes then there is a GST bonus and Christmas bonus, only for those on Invalidity or 100 percent LTIA ( the Chosen few). not to mention doctors visits are free and dentists are paid for them. I have to pay for this myself and I get no GST or Christmas Bonus and I don’t receive £180.00 per person per week in my pocket.
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“Since they brought in the sliding scale to cut payments made to the long term sick most are under 100% anyway unlike pre 2004.” – Mario.
I have checked this and you are right Mario. The latest report by the Government Actuary on the the Social Security Fund as at 31st December 2009 assumes (on page 44) that the average proportion of the full rate of benefit for LTIA will be just 0.55%. It also shows us that between 2007 and 2009, Invalidity Benefit expenditure was falling at just under 7% per annum (page 30). By 2009 it had dropped to £13.8 million and it is expected to nearly halve anyway by 2014 to £7.5 million (page 48):
http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/AssemblyReports/2012/R.016-2012.pdf
Given that it is falling so steadily without his intervention, one has to question why Le Gresley MBE would want to make it fall even further and even faster. I have no doubt that it is a politically motivated decision- so that by the 2014 elections he can claim to have cut his Soc Sec budget by a lot more than was ever expected of him, thus ensuring cult status with the business elite, re-election as Senator and leaving him in a very powerful position in the 2014 ministerial elections. Unfortunately, this career enhancement will be achieved by causing added distress to very sick people and for me, this just sums up the very essence of the man.
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Sorry but the correct figure for the average award of LTIA that I quoted above from the Government Actuary’s report is 0.55 – not 0.55% as I stated. If quoted as a percentage it would be 55%, or just over half the standard rate of benefit.
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So where are the jobs for these 1000 people going to miraculously appear from?
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good for the fake 27yr olds claiming disability and claiming for no valid reason when they have been working for cash in hand!!!!! when there is no reason to be receiving it!!!! but not for the genuine people whom have worked hard to support and would love to still be working but unable to to injury through long term hard work or bad luck!!!
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The key to success in this area is for assesments to be made, by a mixed medical and non-medical board, of what people are capable of doing, rather than what they cannot do. A lot of people believe that it is psychologically good for people to work. This is a States leadership issue. We need to encourage people on disability benefits to want to go out and work. It is a motivation issue; look at this disabled ex-army bloke (Phil Packer?) who was in the JEP recently. We must not, however, expect the genuinely disabled to do things that they cannot.
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Non-medically trained individuals to be able to judge if people who have been assessed to be unfit to work by doctors are actually unfit to work- by any chance are you a former welfare board member looking for a new hobby job?
I knew of one person who was so ill he was effectively housebound and he only left home once a week when his relatives drove him to the supermarket and back to buy his shopping. Yet I am told in good faith that every time he had a Medical Board, they would put him under pressure by suggesting work that he could possibly still do. Well he finally managed to prove to them beyond any doubt that he WASN’T capable of returning to work after all … HE DIED OF HIS ILLNESS TWO YEARS AGO, STILL ONLY IN HIS FIFTIES. Well that’s one less case for the mandarins to have to administer. Absolutely true story.
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It’s alright putting people down as scroungers but what happens if one day some of you may need this help yourselves
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Invalidity Benefit is a 100% benefit of £184.45/week. Recipients are on the benefit because they are incapable of doing any work whatsoever and have to submit regular medical certificates issued by their GP. Are Social Security now saying that our own GP’s are incapable of making the judgement of whether their patients (who they see on a very regular basis) are fit to work or not? What an insult! Social Security is perfectly happy for the retired GP’s they employ to make judgements on people they don’t know based on a short medical board interview. They can deem you fit for work even when you’re not. Most of the doctor’s they use are terribly out of touch, haven’t practised for years and don’t even have any knowledge of certain illnesses at all. Yes, I am talking from personal experience! Are we now going to be following in the footsteps of the UK where desperate ill people are committing suicide because they are being denied the benefits they should be entitled to?
Incidentally, claimants on LTIA don’t have to submit regular medical certificates – they are assessed by the same retired GP’s employed by Social Security as stated above. Claimants on Invalidity Benefit are checked up on more regularly by way of having to submit regular medical certificates so I fail to see how so many could be claiming if not entitled.
There is nothing wrong in stopping fraud or imposing cuts at a time of austerity but it is revolting to see politicians targeting ill and disabled people. Do we really want to live in a world in which people with chronic illnesses and disabilities are driven even further into the shadows?
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Well it’s much easier to see your own GP than a medical board GP and most people on Invalidity don’t pay for a GP visit (as a friend of mine). I do agree that the Soc.Sec. Gp’s are not as knowledgable as they should be, my experience on LTIA ( not 100), I also have to pay for my own very needed visits ( about 9 a year). I think all people should be on the same system as it would be fairer to all, not one rule for one and another rule for the other.
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Well done Minister. You can start with removing subsidies to some of your fellow States Members who seem incapacable of doing anything worthwhile. Make work pay and stop the handouts for the lazy!
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Make work pay? What do you mean keeping people just over broke with the carrot of riches placed just out of their reach, meanwhile taxing them into oblivion?
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err…no!!
Make it more of an incentive for people to work for their money rather than receiving benefits……i.e. increase minimum wage and cut benefits!
Simple……it should not be acceptable for someone who does not work (AND HAS NO DESIRE TO) to be better off than somebody who slogs most of their life away earning scraps just to survive!
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Whilst their boss lives the life of luxury…
Agree with minimum wage it is pretty pathetic in such an expensive place.
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About 20 years too late I,m afraid. Why does it take politicians so long to see what the public see in front of their eyes instantly? This island is full of alcoholics and drugs users all being paid fat benefit cheques as well as all the free accomodation and no expense spared medical care they get. I also know of people on disability benefits who work in full time well paid jobs with very wealthy partners. Why? because they are entitled. Don’t tell me that criminal gangs based in Europe are not also sending scrooges over here to claim benefits and taking their cut because they know this island just loves giving it’s money away to all and sundry. Unless of course you are local and honest and have too much pride to put your hand out.
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If you need benefits, they’re essential. Sadly those that don’t have given benefits a bad name so there’s a witch hunt on. Get it right. Don’t be blinded by punishing the vulnerable just to get at the grifters.
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The shame of this is, those who genuinly need this benefit, will lose out. That is awful. BUT those who did sit at home all day doing nothing will be forced to find something to do or god forbid, get work!
I think instead of cutting this benefit, perhaps it should be better means tested, and that way we would get rid of those who are able to work but are lazy scroungers. I know so many people on this benefit, who are fitter than most, JERSEY – stop giving our money away! and for those of you who know who you are – STOP SCROUNGING there are FAR worse off people that you. and you know it.
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We were a stronger nation (I’m including UK) and a more productive nation, when people were forced to work, regardless of their mental or physical capacity.
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absolutely! Ive seen people who are wheelchair bound, paraplegics, blind, deaf, learning difficulties, etc who have jobs and work hard so why cant someone who has a sore knee work? or a sore back? but they are fine to go to the pub or do their gardening.
those folk who think they are so disabled, try putting yourself in a REAL disabled persons shoes. Think about it.
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Don’t they have undercover fraud prevention units in UK for this type of thing….where video footage is used as evidence to prove non-disability.
Jersey should bring this in (if they haven’t already) to catch the fraudsters and then throw the book at them…..the doctor’s who perpetuate this madness by “confirming” the alleged disability must also be held accountable!
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What cobblers! Forced labour is ineffective labour. To maximise output proper incentives need to be given in return for labour. Minimum wage and no extras like a pension do notihng to encourage going the extra mile.
If employers want to adopt a revolving door policy for jobs in their company they can achieve this easily by paying poor wages, upsetting their staff, being mean by not giving Lib day off etc. Appreciation goes a long way. Word soon gets around as to who the best employers are and workers naturally will want to go somewhere where they get properly recognised for their efforts and not taken advantage of.
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I agree to an extent Mario, however, there are plenty of people out there who think they deserve their pay simply for just turning up!
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..just as there are plenty slogging their guts out for very little reward and no aprreciation from their boss.
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I can’t disagree there Mario
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What with the Senator reducing or removing Xmas Payments last December and now an attack on Widows Pensions and Benefits he has obviously changed sides along with Geoff Southern who wants to charge the elderly for prescriptions. These States Members used to be the ‘People’s Champions’ but they are now a disgrace!
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Sure Geoff Southern would love to see OAP paying for prescriptians after all he can afford it on his teachers pension, states OAP also what he earns doing his states job!!!!!!!!!!
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It’s so easy for people who have good health to look down upon the less fortunate and constantly call for the screw to be tightened. However, they should bear in mind that even the most fit and apparently healthy people can be struck down with something awful when they least expect it. Only then will they discover that it is no fun living in jersey when you are ill or disabled.
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And while your’e in the headlines Francis…what has happened to the Committee of enquiry…over a year now…Ian Gorst said first quarter we are in that quarter and so far nothing….people are poised and watching…so what’s happening..?
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There is a consistent theme that comes across in many of the submissions here – people don’t mind helping, paying, supporting genuinely ill people, but positively object to paying for those that are capable of going out to work. At present the UK under the coalition government are trying to smash dependency on the state in terms of payments, believing quite rightly that such a system is unsustainable. It makes no sense that there are young women who look to getting pregnant in order to be housed and look to further children as a means of income. It makes no sense that additional payments are made to individuals over 18 years of age because they have been diagnosed with ADHD. The list goes on endlessly and its long over due to overhaul the current system. There needs to be a full and comprehensive review of the assessment process, clear guidelines and look to better enforcement to weed out the individuals who are defrauding the system. These individuals who cost each and every tax payer hundreds of thousands of pounds per year need to be exposed so that the genuine claimants can receive fair contributions and not feel ‘got at’ by society.
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That is true.
Those truly in need SHOULD get all the help we can provide….the lazy sheisters who work the system and knowingly defraud the hardworking taxpayer SHOULD NOT….in fact, they should be punished and suffer the consequences of their lazy and deceitful ways!
It is not right there are many people working all hours just to make ends meet….yet they are financing the lazy and promiscuous who treat the taxpayer with utter contempt!
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Completely agree.
Good post
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here we go again lets see who we can take money off these states members needs to come into the real world if you lot did not over spend or take silly trips we may get it right
i am loseing benifits over the next four years
it has not helped with family nursing store
closing prices have gone up and you have to pay up front to lose any more is not right how
can people live you should do more checks on
people for frand before targeting us
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Jersey politicians…..you want to cut costs and raise revenue?
1) Take a pay cut
Cut top-heavy management and increase the real “work” force in the public sector
2) Pay for your own parking, lunches and whatever else you “scrounge” from the taxpayer in the form of “expenses”
3) Send foreign convicted criminals back to their country of origin – save prison costs
3) Stop lavishing inmates with the sort of luxuries that a lot of law-abiding, tax paying citizens can only dream of – crime SHOULD NOT PAY!
4) Police our streets properly, fining all misdemeanors instead of turning a blind eye (or as usual, being invisible) – literally hundreds of “crimes” occur on our streets daily, such as parking on yellow lines and poor driving ability. Fine them!
5) Tax the wealthy appropriately – they can afford to suffer more of a burden
6) Stop wasting taxpayers money on non-essential projects – you want them, you pay for them out of your own pockets!
7) Introduce a fair PAYE scheme – ITIS is useless and is ALWAYS paid in arrears. Tax as you are paid to catch those who work seasonally and “consultants” who are employed by local companies and who spend significant time in the island, using our services and taking jobs for local tax paying employees.
9) Compare public sector salary & financial packages to private sector and bring them in line (performance related pay wouldn’t go amiss either)
10) Introduce more user-pays services
11) Get unemployed and others on benefits to “earn” their money. Community work, public protection patrols (honorary/community police), cleaning beaches etc would always be appreciated by the taxpayer – it may also help to take the strain off the actual police and other states services
12) Limit child benefit to 2 children (preferably by the same father) – to discourage promiscuity and squeezing out sprogs for a living!
12) Create schemes for working age “kids” to work for “benefit” – this will get them off the streets and perhaps give them work experience and new skills.
These are just a few ideas….slate them if you will, but at least offer your own ideas/solutions if you do.
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One of the best and realistic comments I have ever read,,,!!!
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I hope your running in the elections you’ld deffinatly get my vote .All problems sorted just the type of person we need before Jersey realy does go down the pan!.
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Francis..you gained a following and a sympathy….and just let it go….how are you ever going to recover from this headline…we watch the stinking rich and the wasteful States departments and their sickeningly grandiose schemes..easy to spend our money…and squeeze the poor and needy……identical pre French Revolution behaviour…you can never play the man of the people card again…that is well down the drain..and you are becoming ,one of the gang.
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