Population controls will not be sufficient, Scrutiny concludes
Tuesday 24th April 2012, 12:30PM BST.
The Corporate Services Scrutiny sub-panel are not convinced about proposals to control population
WITH just weeks until a new immigration system comes into force, a Scrutiny review has found it is ‘very unclear’ how it will give ministers any power to control population levels.
The review has also found that the failure of the current control mechanisms are responsible for the increase in population seen in the 2011 Census, which has brought the Island to the brink of a population of 100,000.
With just a week to go until the Strategic Plan debate that will guide States policies for the next three years, the Corporate Services Scrutiny sub-panel, chaired by Deputy James Reed, says interim measures proposed to protect jobs for Islanders in advance of a full population debate in 2013 did not reassure them.
The sub-panel found that ‘we cannot have confidence in what is being proposed by the Council of Ministers, given that the current control mechanisms for population and migration are failing, and have been for the last three years’.
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“given that the current control mechanisms for population and migration are failing, and have been for the last three years”
My thoughts exactly.
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What makes me laugh as this has been known for some years. If a large country like Australia/USA has visa’s in place and then people have to leave why on earth has jersey not done this, and why cant it be done now. It is so over populated and people are just staying and staying and it will only get more over crowded with more births (and then these will be jesey born). J cat is a joke too sometimes, its never proven that advertising within the Island has failed to employ locally, it seems to be if you know the right person/people you can get in. Get a grip in the States and sort it instead of talking about it for years on end. No wonder people are lethargic about voting!
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Because Jersey has no control over immigration. It is based on the UK, and this power is not within Jersey’s power.
All immigration works off the exact same principles as Australia/NewZealand – whereby people must have visa’s, btu the UK scheme involved Europe.
This is where it is tricky, because immigration will never be controlled by Jersey’s wish, due to it being controlled by the UK.
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That is a nonsense, as well you know.
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Buffoon – how can it be a nonsense? I went through the process. For me to work in Jersey from NEw Zealand, I had to meet the UK immigration points system based on having experience in a certain filed, a specialisation in finance, an under-grad and post-grad degree, and money behind me. I only then just got the points, and the UK issued my visa to work in Jersey.
When I arrived here local immigration stamped my passport based on the visa and issued a work certificate to allow me based on the fact the local need.
This happened about fifteen years ago, and this same process still exists today, as last year I brought another Kiwi across following the same process. Local immigration cannot grant a licence unless the UK immigration has given authority to do so under the points system.
Maybe you should learn your facts.
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I suppose you could call your accountancy qualification post-grad but really we are not talking a doctorate here are we. Does your Linkedin profile say you were CFO of Goldman Sachs in a prior existence!
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It is a nonsense to argue that Jersey has no autonomy in its internal affairs and that includes immigration. It could go independent if what you say is correct, which it plainly is not. Get your facts right.
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Sally Ann – I have an undergrad business degree, and an MBA. You might not know this, but a Masters is a post-grad.
Misinformation: If you don’t believe me, then call JErsey Immigration. They get to choose some elements, like fee’s, but to migrate to Jersey must be approved by the UK Home Office, under their points system.
This isn’t mis-informaiton – it is the truth, I have gone through it, as have many other Australians and Kiwi’s alike.
These are facts – the un-eductaed can’t swallow.
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You can buy an MBA these days. It doesn’t mean jack, as your commentary shows in ample leasure!
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I seriously doubt that RT has any form of degree (even a third or a bare pass)-that said, they probably hand them out to all and sundry in NZ- it doesn’t inspire confidence in the higher education system over there.
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Not even able to stick with the point… typical left-wing ratbags who when shown they are wrong playt the man rather than the ball.
Typically moaning pommies.
Facts remain, I was right. Immigration is determiend by UK Law as per the States of Jersey website.
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Ah, your argument regarding immigration fails eh? Not sure how socialism is linked to the ability to sniff out a dodgy argument- perhaps that is another example of a flawed thought process on your part and a reflection of a low level of learning!
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Facts dear boy. Facts.
Love it when a fool looses it when facts are clear.
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What is “loose”, RT? It wouldn’t be your argument would it?
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The review has also found that the failure of the current control mechanisms are responsible for the increase in population
This is no surprise. The states of jersey’s own hr department is amongst the worst offenders. if the CoM wants to show its worth it can act now, but chooses to do little or nothing. Rather than sounding off against the UK Government the CoM needs to get its own house in order, from jobs the budgets.
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No always a fan of James Reed, however this review does make some real sense.
Please stick to you guns and get the Council of Ministers to implement effectice controls. Populations is grossly out of control and the Islanders of unhappy
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The point is immigration is not controlled by the States of Jersey – immigration is controlled by the UK where it relates to GSY and JSY.
When it comes to immigration JSY does nto have the power to make it’s own laws…
Are people thick or what???
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No, you are. What you say is complete nonsense.
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Look at my comment above. JErsey immigration cannot issue work permits unless the person has met UK immigration and work permit points system.
Facts please, not simply incoherent opinion, that which truthseeker is known for.
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No, you are talking a load of old tosh, my friend. Go and get your facts right before posting such twaddle!
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It is true – I will post a link:
Go To:
http://www.gov.je/Working/WorkPermits/Pages/NeedWorkPermit.aspx
Then select “Do I Need A Visa?” button, which takes you to the UK Home Office details on what regulaitons you need to follow. Jersey is determiend wholly in this regard by UK Law.
Simple. There are the blatant facts, not misguided uneducated comments like others on here.
Go try it!
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That’s not a law- it’s just some policy note. Jersey is well able to determine its own immigration. To suggest otherwise displays a misunderstanding of the legislative process and the matter of the right to self determination.
If you don’t want to get your facts right, then don’t- it is your loss and you will end up embarrassing yourself.
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Real Truthseeker
The rules to which you refer only apply to non-EU citizens. EU citizens have absolute freedom to live and work anywhere in the EU and don’t need a visa.
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Not too bright are we RT. Immigration can relatively easily be controlled via the use of a much more vigorous system of work visas and accomodation dependent on work visas. Think Guernsey where they don’t have a problem or at least it is minimal compared to Jersey’s. Last time I looked Guernsey had exactly the same constitutional relationship to the UK as Jersey does so it can be done. Do you normally come out with such flailing comments about things you know very little about? Actually you do!
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Not very bright Tony. The immigration law for Jersey and Guernsey is the same as it is UK Law. Even after having posted the actual legislation and law, you still argue against the facts. The are written. Go take a walk if you can’t stomach the facts.
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Just because something is based on Uk law does not mean that Jersey ahs no control over it- if that were the case then the Trusts (Jersey) Law 1984, based as it is upon UK jurisprudence, would mean that Jersey would have no control over the finance industry.
I hope that this example shows you how absurd your argument is.
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Real Truthseeker
The immigration laws are the same but the difference is in the housing laws. Anyone with an EU passport can technically live and work in Guernsey but they have to have a local housing licence to occupy local market property. Otherwise they have to occupy very expensive open market property.
That’s why Guernsey doesn’t have 15000 people living in bedsits or on lodging houses. Seasonal workers get 9 month local licences and then must leave for at least 3 months. That’s how they control their immigration. There’s a big lesson to be learned.
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Exactly Spike – Completely agree. Technically Jersey has the same with our housing qual’s, and agree Guernsey is different. My point is this – When it comes to Immigration, we are bound by UK Immigration Law. Once Jersey decided (in the near impossible scenario) to go it alone, then we would be in a bad position because we could not run a full immigration department (the local one is just a satellite office), but more importantly, the UK would treat us in the same way, rightly, as it does all foreign countries, and th eability to move there and work and easily travel would be removed.
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The law of Jersey regarding immigration is not determined by the UK.
If the Uk were to attempt to do such a thing, it would be acting unconstitutionally and ultra vires.
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Population controls should include all of the various factors involved. Job availability in particular for Islanders, the extra costs of health, schools, Policing and of course future housing requirements. Law and Order is a particular crucial factor with immigration and the type of person who may be admitted, I would suggest that any person with a criminal record should be excluded from entry, I would also go as far as saying that all immigrants should have a ‘good health’ certificate which should be fully checkable. there are various ways population control can be administered, i.e Crucial workers which would be proffessionally qualified persons,visitors visas,and seasonal workers,any other persons should be put through stringent tests for suitability. This may be a way of curtailing importation of banned substances and other such items.
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I agree Roger, and migrants who commit crime should be deported. Jersey is stil a fantastic place to live, and there is no reason why we can’t be more particular and stringent on who we let into our Island.
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Jersey doesn’t even carry out police record or health checks on work permit applicants (ie. non-EU nationals entering from places such as Kenya) despite the very high incidence of HIV infection in Africa. Therefore even if they had the power and the means to do so, there is no way they would agree to introduce such checks for the far larger number of EU nationals arriving here. I don’t believe they could legally introduce such checks unless they also introduced work permits for all EU nationals (including British) and then we are back again to that never-ending old argument about whether or not to introduce work permits.
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I suggest you look up ‘totally drug resistant TB’ this is occuring in South Asia due to mis-use of antibiotics.
Doubtless this will be heading our way soon.
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Not just Asia. Look at the stats for Portugal and Poland..
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Yes they do – for Non-EU nationals, Immigration here obtained a full police record, and I had to go through a local medical test before anything was processed.
UK immigration have a points system, which is rigorous, and this applies to Jersey as Jersey does not determine it’s own immigraiton law.
There are some very daft people out there!
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It is a nonsense for you to say that Jersey does not determine its immigration law. Please get your facts right before posting such silly words, here and elsewhere.
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Anusseeker – see the link posted above.
There you go wrong, wrong wrong.
What I have said is now evidence with facts, you dear boy have nothing.
Love it!
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The “link posted elsewhere” does not support your argument as has been explained to you elsewhere and as you have similarly acknowledged elsewhere!
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Simply stop paying benefits after 6 months and you’d have 2000 people leave overnight solving over population and reducing states expenditure.
we have the highest employment (yes employment) ever yet we also have the highest unemployment that shows we have a policy issue not employment issue. We have very high employment but we are attracting to many people happy to live on benefits like the UK not want we want in Jersey
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If only this would happen!
There might be a chance of getting a pension when I retire in 20 years time!
Great idea but as usual I think there would be a better chance of ozouf becoming the next pope!
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The more I read, the more I think our council of Ministers are not fit for purpose.
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Maybe I’ve been hitting the stupid pills too hard but it seems simple enough to me. As you enter the island you declare the purpose of your visit and give an address at which you live. If not on holiday or permanant resident you are sent back to your point of origin.
The ability to speak fluent English would give an idea of legitimacy, failing that follow the Austraialan model they seem to keep non desirables out of a continent, surely we can do it on a small island.
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Yes- I am afraid you HAVE taken too many stupid pills. You don’t realise the significance of the island’s legal and constitutional position in relation to the UK and the European Union, which means that, for example, EU nationals exercising their community rights of free movement do not require leave to enter and remain in Jersey. We can only restrict their access to local housing and employment once they get here and the sad fact is that not only have we drastically loosened our Housing restrictions over the last decade, but even today, with an estimated 3,000 local unemployed, we still allow major retail employers like De Gruchy’s to legally recruit non-locals for most of their store and office positions, which is totally unacceptable.
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I think I speak for everyone when I say that this is [more than likely] Jersey’s biggest threat to economic recovery.
We can only hope that the States do not fail in this effort and, with an iron fist, get the population under control and back down to an acceptable level.
As our economy has shrunk, there is less requirement for foreign labour, so why let more people in?
The fact that this has happened is an insult to the young, local and unemployed people of Jersey who are blocked from working by £0.99p an hour scavengers…
Thoughts please!
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1. If you don’t have a SocSec card then you don;t get work. If you employ someone (cash in hand etc) then you are fined £10k.
- result everyone must get registered at SOCSEC.
2. SOCSEC stop issuing SocSec cards. Only issue if work permit exists from employer and offer of employment actually exists.
3. Employer must demonstrate that the vacancy has been advertised and that NO-ONE interviewed locally can do the job by providing interview notes and CV’s of those interviewed.
4. No benefits of any kind (including hospital treatment) if you have not PAID SocSec contributions for 5 years. Immigrants to pay a £5000.00 per person bond for this period returnable at the end of 5 years less any ‘expenses’ incurred.
5. Every major employer (100 + people) must employ 2 apprentices from the LOCAL schools or graduates per annum on minimum wage for a fixed 3 year contract.
6. Pay non locals a return home bonus of £1,000.00 cash.
7. Any criminal gets fined and deported with immediate effect upon being found guilty.
8. When entering the island request reason for visit, and where they will be staying. Check up on them and then ensure they leave.
The above actually CREATES Jobs while managing the current issues.
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COM -Mentator
No 4> Where do you get a seasonal worker with 5K in their bank account ?
So you take their money, and when they need treatment, they can die, if they can’t afford the hospital.
No6 > That s a crazy idea. An open returned ticket when you come in will work better.
No7 >No criminals should be allowed in , to start with.
The rest make sens….
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Seasonal workers? Sorry but all seasonal jobs are taken up by permanent residents who do other work out of season or return to their homes for winter.
Why is it a crazy idea? We are paying out a lot more for these people in rent rebates etc, Give them an incentive to leave now.
Agree re the criminals lets do back ground checks on the way in, however it is always someone first offence at some point. Not everyone has been caught elsewhere!
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Too simple for Ian Paper Tiger Gorst. He could have done much of that when he was at Social Security, but chose to do nothing. He could do that now, but does nothing.
Meanwhile his sidekick Philip the Spin Ozouf spends tax payers money like it was going out of fashion. The digital highway was a great idea 15 years ago, but JT missed the boat. We will all be wireless by the time JT gets the cables in!
There is only The Rainy Day Fund between Jersey and oblivion.
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how many prosecutions have there been
for not having a social card in the last ten years ?
heres a thing . i did not pay any social for ten years ( yes i have paid my debt to society), took a while to pay that off.
so if a localy born person can do this any transiant person can.
i was only following the example of those who came raked in cash and left .
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1. Agreed. 2. Not necessarily a ‘work permit’ but yes you should have a job secured before moving to ANY place. 3. You can only do that if you have the comparison with the person who can do the job. Also, not all skills can be demonstrated on paper, sometimes you just know who the right person for the job is. 4. A little bit insane, especially since someone may well require hospital treatment due to the terrible actions of a Jersey person! This kind of statement only works if you apply it to EVERYone and that includes locals, if they haven’t contributed why should they benefit? 5. A difficult one, employers should never be forced to take on employees that simply do not want to be there. 7. Should apply in every country in the world frankly (including people who have had children). 8. Not sure you need to ‘check up’ on all people, but there will be some people who are of obvious concern yes.
From all of the above exclude people who are in loving relationships with a Jersey local, otherwise all you do is penalise locals for dating non-locals and that is just stupid.
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Well one thing is for certain- your first name may be Dave but with comments like this, your surname most definitely isn’t Warr! Well done. I agree.
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just give everyone work permits, and why are we waiting a year to debate this problem. Look at the Hospital they can just get managers in who were here as consultants advising on money saving ideas.
the next thing they are in on contracts and the jobs were not even advertised.
Stop this population growth before we sink into the sea
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april 2012
real census:
Local people 50%
British 30%
Portuguese 9%
Polish 2%
Romanians-number increases 4%
Irish4%
French 1%
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Point number one; The census shows the Portuguese population is at 9%. The Portuguese community are well rooted in Jersey and it’s taken them 40 or 50 years, maybe more, to reach that number.
In comparison Eastern European immigration began approximately 6 years ago years ago, yet is already at a total percentage almost half way to the Portuguese number.
Think about what that says.
Point number two; “Real” census? The census was certainly real. The accuracy of the result is a completely different matter.
How likely do you think it is that immigrants living in farm outbuildings or sleeping 10 to a room on the floor of a friend’s flat filled out a census form?
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Koley
Are those figure based on ethnic background or nationality? It’s highly relevant because many of the residents of Portuguese descent were either born here since the 1960s or have obtained British citizenship after 7 years here. They are probably no longer listed as “Portuguese”.
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Simple – strictly enforce the five year rule.
Then increase the stupid 5 year rule to six, including welfare handouts. Then increase to 7, continue to increase.
Bring in work permits for all jobs.
Start increasing the qualification period at the same time.
Most proper Jersey people do not understand why people with no connection to the island are allowed to flock here and work in times of never before seen unemployment.
Betrayal of local people.
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#11 – nail/head – and it is not that we do not understand.. It is that there is no logical explination for denying local people their right to work and afford freehold property.
A march through town? Get the Ouenies down with their pitch forks!!
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Nothing if not a frank admission that spoiled, lazy locals can’t compete on equal terms with immigrants for jobs! I’ve been saying as much since the Census came out.
Bring in the work permits in the hope that employers will employ an unquailified, unmotivated Bean who will lose them money rather than pack up and leave.
I hope we do as you’re all suggesting, it’ll be most amusing to watch the island burn – but at least there won’t be any of those funny foreign types about – you’ll be begging them to come back.
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It’s funny how the bigots like to come out of the woodwork- your comment is a point in hand. How very unpleasant and how well it indicates the need to keep treacherous undesirables out of the island.
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Sorry to disappoint Bill but I am a local – I just tire of seeing how others seem to delight in blaming immigration for every one of their social ills from lack of funding for education, through to crime and unemployment.
The truth is that immigrants are largely better qualified and harder working than the workshy generation of locals who are constantly whinging about not being able to find work – hell, the JEP article mentioned an 18 year old who said she’d do anything “except work in Catering.. I don’t want to be carrying trays.” Fine love, take your dole cheque once a week and rot.
V.
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This island wouldn’t “burn” without the umpteen thousands of immigrants who are willing to do any old job for next to no money. In fact, Jersey, as it is now with all the extra hands, has become a thoroughly unpleasant place to live over the last twenty years – so where are the benefits of all this labour? Jersey wasn’t “burning” in the time before all this began – what a load of garbage you are spouting. I would rather have a hundred “unqualified, unmotivated Beans” than one hateful, self-righteous, judgemental idiot like you…
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Won’t work.
Most proper Jersey people etc – it is because some islanders simply will not do some jobs…. is it not? Read what the ‘proper jersey’ farmer said in the print edition last week about no local applicants for his jobs – all to do with getting out of bed early and hard work, he said.
The solution is much simpler: get Jersey people to do Jersey jobs, by denying benefits, after only a few weeks (not months or years) to people who will not take jobs out of choice.
Whole problem solved.
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Good man, well said – by all means give out unemployment benefits until people receive an offer of permanent, full time work but once that’s on the table let’s have them accept.
As you say, the little darlings might have to get out of bed early to be down in the farm but it certainly won’t kill them…
V.
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Controls are very efficient if managed correctly, policed and enforced.
What James Reed and the States is saying is why bother because we cannot be @rsed and we don’t really want to.
Just like every other promise of the states about cost reduction and control – broken at the first opportunity.
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Simple,go to Guernsey and find out how they do it.
They have managed to keep their population down,no problem.
So no need to keep building more and more to accommodate these incomers.
Hardly any unemployment either,or high risers,it makes a better picture than Jersey.
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What? 65000 people in 30 sqare miles is
keeping the population down?
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Leftin87
The Guernsey population has barely risen over the past decade, where it has been pretty stable between around 62,000 and 64,000. It is under control because of their housing laws.
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The immigration law for Jersey and Guernsey is identical with the exception of the name of the Bailiwick when referring to UK immigration law. As usual people who don’t believe it are either to lazy to read or can’t.
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What was the Jersey Aliens Law where visitors had to sign a book and the owner of the book had to know their whereabouts? Does it still exist and would it be relevant
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i remember those , all guest houses and hotels plus lodgings had them.
that a blast from the past .
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Population control is of course a very tuff nut to crack. With a population of 100,000 people is next to impossible to supply the necessary skills required for the island. There is a way of dealing with this buy needs transparency.
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I’m so sick of seeing all these comments like anyone not born and bred here are scum of the Earth.
I’m going to be rude and disrespectful and say exactly how I feel ………. I feel it’s only right considering I have to hear these kind of comments on a daily basis being British and all…..
Too many people on this island thing being a bean makes them superior to everyone else. You think this island is the centre of the universe. Let me just clarify something…… you’re incredabaly small minded and reality check, Jersey is a tiny insignificant ROCK in comparision to the rest of the world and to be honest outside of this island unless you have family here or visited NO ONE EVEN KNOWS JERSEY EXISTS.
In retaliation to all the comments not just on this post but others about there’s a boat in the morning blah blah blah…ok ok ok let’s remove ALL immigrants off this island and equally let’s get any Jersey born person living elsewhere in the world BACK on this island as no other country wants you. You’d be back to square one OR…… let’s remove all immigrants and all you’re left with is Jersey born and bred, let’s see how your island would run then…No? Hmmmm I think there may be a classic case of having your cake and eating it too???? WAKE UP that doesn’t happen.
It so much as rains on this island and it’s the immigrants fault.
I’d like to point out that I do not aim this at ALL Jersey born people as of course there are always the ‘undesirable’ within any nationality. (Yes that was another dig at the fact labels are given to different nationalities). Also as it happens, I adore this island. It’s beautiful and to be quite frank I feel proud I live here. Having said that those minority people with their broken record comments about immigrants tend to spoil it. I work and pay taxes I have as much right to an opinion as everyone else. I just hope any of your family or friends living elsewhere other than Jersey do not get the same treatment as given here to someone like myself who is NOT jersey born, and proud of it.
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People did not mind immigrants to Jersey, before there were so many of them.
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Of course we are over populated and I blame the immigrants. Why should I have to queue at the supermarket? Or wait for a doctor’s appointment? Or hang about in traffic jams caused by all those other cars?
I should be able to drive to work in 10 minutes and find a parking space at any time of the day. Of course I am adequately housed but I should be able to afford a bigger and better house. Why should my taxes go towards paying for other people to get social housing?
Bann the immigrants; send them all home; end of problem
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Are you talking about the immigrants (1.1K)how can buy multi- million pounds property straight away, which in one way drive your average house prices up, or the ones who have to pay landlords for 10years before they can afford to buy a average property.
The solution to your problem is called decentralization.
And looking at all the shops closing in town , your morning traffic jam is going to get better and better.
You own the roof over your head, and you still want the same size property as the multi millionaire across the road because you are a native.Always want bigger and better , Hey !
A few years ago , people could make 50/100K in 6 months on a property without doing much to it.
Many have enjoyed the easy profits from buying and selling property.
And you are still moaning!
By the way , avoid shopping at rush hours, and ask your GP if he is a local before you send him home?
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Apart from a few the general theme here seems to be quite moderate and thoughtful,it would seem from your patronising and insulting attitude that you believe a host population has no right to feel concerned about issues which directly affect them.It may be the use of an almost identical language or just contempt but try it elsewhere and see where it goes.A generalisation obviously but I have always found us fairly tolerant,keep abusing a host and it will respond.
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mallouin,
The veiled threat in your last sentence appears to demonstrate how tolerant you are.
I feel that you may need to reflect on the comments of the many Jersey ‘locals’ posting on here who find your reactionary attitudes deplorable.
While I do not agree with the forcefulness or delivery of some of ‘British Girls’ comments I can understand why she feels this way.
Some posters seemingly group all immigrants, regardless of what they bring to the community of Jersey in terms of experience, commitment, wealth, qualification, skill etc., with scroungers, criminals, drug smugglers and addicts etc.
I can assure you that the latter group is well represented within Jersey’s indigenous population.
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“Veiled threat”,please do not try to read into or infer anything but what was said.In no part of my comment have I intimated any such thing.Keep abusing a host and it will respond is exactly what many moderate commentators,using normal language are doing,no abuse,no threats implied or otherwise.I do however have the right to respond to those that appear to have no other course of action but to abuse and insult Jersey(the host community).Fair criticism and importantly constructive criticism of all our problems I’m sure is welcome by all.
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I agree with Mallouin- people tend to be welcome most places but that welcome wears thin if the immigrant takes the p – Jersey is tolerant-
if you want trouble and pretend to see veiled threats go and take the p out of the scots in Glasgow on a Saturday night- then you’ll find out how easy it is for those who come here and moan. Of course, you wouldn’t have the courage- you only do it here because you take advantage of local good nature.
If you don’t like it, please leave.
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Glasgow kiss, my experience of Glasgow and foreigners is people showing an interest in where they’re from rather than giving them hassle. Compared to the rest of the UK, Scotland (Glasgow in particular) is known for being accepting of immigrants. And that is the judgement of the many immigrants I know there, most of whom lived in and were chased out of many other parts of the UK before settling happily in Glasgow.
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Even with their legendary hospitality, I would be surprised if the Scots were to take kindly to people going there, rubbishing their tradtions and generally insulting the place and the people.
That was the point that was being made, I believe.
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Alex,exactly.Thanks for a succinct response.
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mallouin,
Sounded like a hollow threat when I first saw it and still does now. If your meaning was to respond to your perceived abuse with words, then, why mention it, as that is clearly what you were already doing.
For the record, as an immigrant who has been here for a long time, I love Jersey as much as anyone and have never abused the Island. It’s the attitudes of some locals that I don’t like and the locals and the Island are not one and the same.
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Sorry but your’e doing it again,no threat hollow or otherwise was said or implied just a simple statement that if abused as a community we have the right to respond and hey that’s what I’m doing.I have no idea of or interest in your background,just to say that why is it that some anglo’s seem to think wherever they go in the world and settle they have the right to abuse their host community.Not all is right with the world including Jersey but constructive non abusive criticism is always welcome, so c’mon lets try to make our Jersey a better place.No threat implied.
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well said girl, like your style
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Nicely said.
I ll copy the :
“outside of this island unless you have family here or visited NO ONE EVEN KNOWS JERSEY EXISTS”.
You forgot to mention the fortunate who have millions to hide…
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british girl, you can go to some of the oddest places( in the world) and , a jersey person had passsed that way and a guernsey person too.
sorry you feel as if we all blame you and yours.
it was great when the money was slushing about , but someone did not remove the punchbowl , and now we are in for a big gready hangover. as overpopulated says , we are full and untill we reduce unemployment and have a good look at who want to be here we should as a small island do something about all and sundry arriving here .
yes i would pick spuds and wash dishes .
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You a re right, people in Jersey are so wealthy that they can afford to cruise the world… Can’t blame them for leaving on a island. But it is just to show that you have it easy and you don’t know it.
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Goes to show many come to ‘start afresh’ but do not leave their grievances with their own birthplaces behind…
Many immigrants, not all, MANY should not be allowed in here we have enough to deal with.
For the first time ever disadvantaged/disabled folk and people with disabilities were asked about how they felt with the care they receive, they are treated like second class citizens in comparison to many immigrants that would not give it a second thought that public money is being cut to provide for them and putting other less fortunate locals behind them in the priorities queue, argue with that then…
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Blame your system for letting down your own.
You didn’t mention the way you treat orphans as well.
Where did you see that immigrants are making the laws.
Considering that locals have a fair advantage on immigrants, some should only have themselves to blame for their failure…
Cruise the world , work for a year , travel for another… And they feel sorry for themselves when it s time to retire because they had it easy all their life…
An immigrant is not allowed to leave the Island for more than 3 months. So who s staying working flat out…
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Immigrants are imprisoned here, are they?
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Kermit please READ properly before jumping up and down and guess what not all locals are rich!!
It Seems to be immigrants assuming many are rich that is causing half the problem!!
Thanks for highlighting that..
And no thanks for your misguided opinion of me.. Ha ha
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Their is no will to protect the Island or the
people.
I am so pleased I moved to Australia.
My children and grand children will have a good life here,
Australia protects its borders and its people
Jersey has sold out and as the local poulation decreases it will get worse.
So sorry for you .
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Try walking through any EU airport or harbour, including dear old Dover with a good sun tan and see the reception you get. Why shouldn’t Jersey have immigration controls? Everywhere else I know has them.
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No 16 – clap clap clap, I applaude you. I totally agree with your whole letter. It is only here in Jersey yu get treated like this. How would the Jersey people like it if they went to UK, SA etc and were told, sorry, yu cant live here, yu cant shop there..thats only for the priveledged locals !! The rules here are pathetic and very antiquated. All immigrants should stand tog and say enough is enough !!! Its worse than apartheid….
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Worse than apartheid ????? Jersey may have some acquainted laws but me thinks that is a gross exaggeration. Actually I’m still scratching my head with regards to your comment that different people can’t shop in various places – I’m certainly not aware of any shop having any sort of policy baring any sort of shopper or put it another way all the shops I know of are desperate for trade.
I believe that a great many non locals do not feel welcome in the Island and feel picked on as individuals – which is unfair and unacceptable and certainly not their fault.
Lets go back in time, to a time when there were very strict Housing Laws and very strict employment laws, where seasonal workers were issued with seasonal permits to work on farms or in the tourism industry and oh yes laws regarding being vagrant without home and habitation.
At that time there was argument that things were too tightly controlled and a need for greater flexibility. Somewhere along the line the States dismantled the restrictions and it has become a total free for all. This despite being warned time and time again by Concern and others that being an Island the size of the population was of key importance to the welfare of everyone living here.
Year after year Islanders could see what was happening and yet the States did nought. False promises, lies and all manner of attempts to hide the truth from the public – however unfortunately for the politicians the general public could see and hear for themselves what was happening all around them. Going into a Supermarket and being unable to find a single English speaking assistant etc etc.
As has been mentioned it is not the fact that people come over to the island – it is the number who are now over here and how the Island has changed so much in the last 30 years. This is not a personal issue with any individual person from any race or culture. It is however the public venting its anger and frustration at how the Island has been transformed and how urgent it is for a meaningful immigration policy can actually be put into affect.
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If it’s so awful, why do they stay!!???
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@Fed Up.
Where in Jersey have you been told that you cannot shop unless you are a local? Please do name and shame?
Unless that was just an histrionic enotional outburst of course.
The UK is a larger land mass where millions can live and there is still room for a green and pleasant land. SA is also a massive country on a huge continent. Room is not a problem.
Jersey is, as British Girl correctly says, a tiny insignificant ROCK in comparision to the rest of the world. There simply isn’t room on this tiny insignificant rock for everyone who might want to come and live here. We don’t have the infrastructure to cope with the demand, we don’t have the jobs and we don’t have the room to continually build to house everyone.
It is not disresepctful to be concerned that the ‘locals’ might be suffering as a result of an open door policy. It is not looking down our nose at anyone to suggest that those born on this tiny insignificant rock should have rights to live, work and buy property here ahead of the rest of the world.
There is only so much room, it’s as simple as that.
You cannot simply walk into any country in the world and demand to live there. If you don’t believe that, try it. Try the USA or Oz.
However, in Jersey almost anyone can come in and with overcrowding comes inevitable tensions. That is human nature.
Don’t take it personally, it really is nothing like aparthied.
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Fed-Up
One word….IDIOT!
Comparing Jersey laws and restrictions to apartheid……..unbelievable!
Others have compared working in Jersey to slavery……equally idiotic.
I wish the States Members could read some of these delusional comments to see the quality of immigrant labout Jersey is attracting!
It is a truly bad reflection on the island.
If conditions are too harsh for you then bugger off, you ungrateful swine.
You are taking a good job from someone who would REALLY appreciate it!
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Bad reflection on the Island !
You seem to forget , how kids were treated in Haut de la Garenne.
A 17 year old kid is treated as a slave.
Jersey takes money from people dodging tax.
Jersey is chasing debts from 1/3 world countries.
O/10, 1.1Ks, Tax loop hole, qualies, 5 year residency , and god knows what.
Problem with people like you , is that you leaved all your life on a rock and you think it s normal because it is the way it is and it is the only way that you know.
South African 50 years ago would not even consider Apartheid to be abnormal.They were born in it and found it normal , as much as you today with your rubbish laws.
Yes , there is a boat in the morning , thanks. There is also one to come back in the evening.
3 years ago , the states should have stopped people from coming in. Everybody was fine a few years back.
Everybody was happy to exploit cheap labor. All of a sudden, you locals decide that you want to work in hospitality, building sites and in farming. Nice one ! Make me laugh…
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Dont be rediculous, ordinary local folk have always welcomed non-local folk. The antiquated laws are made up by States members.
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But many locals cannot work in the EU because their Jersey ancestry does not include an EU born parent or grandparent. So, the answer to that is no they can’t work anywhere. Also, why should people whose families go back to the time of William the Conqueror (1066) be driven from their Island! The major problem is that the gravy train has run out of gravy! During the time of greed and plenty we were happy to share our toys. Now that times are getting hard we want our toys back. Also, immigrants who come here usually have a bit of get up and go and therefore some make out. You should see some of locals who present themselves for interview. Would I want to employ them? Probably not. I would rather employ someone who was smart and savvy. Would I want to buy a pair of shoes from someone with worn down heels and broken tights? No. We need to gird our loins and get our act together if we want to survive as an Island people.
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La Moye Squirrel, you say “Also, why should people whose families go back to the time of William the Conqueror (1066) be driven from their Island!”
I hate to tell you but Jersey is far from the only place this happens. People in Scotland may be able to stay in Scotland but those whose ancestry is solely in the islands do find themselves having to leave their home island. (N.B. transport links to elsewhere are nothing like Jersey’s transport links to other places so it is a bigger upheaval). And in their case it’s not solely down to immigration, it’s down to rich ‘Londoners’ buying holiday homes and then leaving them empty most of the year. Unfortunately islands have become somewhere that rich city-folk think they have a right to live or have a holiday home, and those of us that were born there, grew up there, have their family there and would like to continue to live there get pushed out.
Just like Scotland, Jersey needs to look at the whole issue of people owning second homes. In this day and age, with this population, the planet can do without any houses being unoccupied!
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Jerry Springer – Yes- I am afraid you HAVE taken too many stupid pills. You don’t realise the significance of the island’s legal and constitutional position in relation to the UK and the European Union, which means that, for example, EU nationals exercising their community rights of free movement do not require leave to enter and remain in Jersey. We can only restrict their access to local housing and employment once they get here and the sad fact is that not only have we drastically loosened our Housing restrictions over the last decade, but even today, with an estimated 3,000 local unemployed, we still allow major retail employers like De Gruchy’s to legally recruit non-locals for most of their store and office positions, which is totally unacceptable.
Ok fair point then we allow them to enter the island but wedon’t let them live, work, receive healthcare – is that enforceable?
Work permits for those we choose to allow inas per Oz so we can cherry pick our immigrants based on skill sets needed.
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry – love your tv show btw.
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Like everyone else, I refused to believe some of the figures in the last census. I’ll eat my shirt if there’s only 3000 Poles in Jersey. IMO, it’s the non quallies immigrants that cause the biggest problem to immigration levels and these are the ones we should target. They should be exempt from renting if they have no job, and should be banned from claiming benefits too. Once these start seeing Jersey as a bad option, we can start the road to recovery
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I agree!
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please do not blame polish people only, what about thousands of portuguese?
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No blame should be accrued to any part of our population! it’s not the people it’s the amount of them and the obscene exploitation of parts of our community against others by parts of business with possibly,complicity of our goverment.Temps passé we were a reasonably integrated society with very little obvious “them and us”,assimilation was the grail that all tried to attain no matter where from.Ranting against one another helps no-one.We need to solve the immigration problem so that all who live here can benefit.
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British girl,
Your frustration is understood, to change the status quo you must understand how power works. Forget policy home in on every aspect of accountability and transparency, the lack of the latter is how a minority holds on to power that effects the policy decisions that effect you.
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I agree that yes there MUST be some kind of control put in place. It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out tiny island + letting anyone ‘in’ = disaster. My point is that the concern, frustrations and anger should not be directed at the individual immigrants. If you feel the need to rant and direct comments like I keep hearing on a daily basis, it should be the states for allowing it to happen in the first place.
I myself am in my early 20’s, however I know a lot of the older generation of immigrants on this island. Very recently I was told by a Portuguese lady who has lived here for over 35 years (and yes does speak very good English) that she had encountered a situation in which she received hassle about being an ‘immigrant’ from a Jersey born guy similar to my age. This lady moved to Jersey before this guy was even born!!! This kind of situation is also in my book NOT acceptable.
As I mentioned in my previous comment, I adore this island I really do, and like the locals I fear for it because of the amount of individuals let in. There needs to be a stop put to it. Everyone currently here though has every right to be. I’m sure all immigrants like me have set up there life on this island. This is my home. I defend it and respect it even more than Britain. Like I said before I work and pay my taxes, I have a right to be here.
The states should answer for the situation not immigrants who are bullied and make to feel worthless. I know it might surprise you but we do have feelings too.
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I think you’re being a tad naive with the Portuguese woman, that happens everywhere. You’ll find that attitude particularly prevalent in the UK towards Asian people.
That’s life I’m afraid
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And Australia, France and just about anywhere else you might care to name!
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Only in some parts of the UK Beaumont. Not surprisingly (since it is made up of 4 countries), the UK has all sorts of different places and they all treat immigrants differently. There is especially a huge difference regarding how Asian people are treated throughout the UK.
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If you go to Bradford you have to treat them well because they’ve taken over the place!
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Granted@ 24 maybe it was out of order, for all you know there may be other factors or reasons why this young man vented… however, you should really see that it isn’t one sided, how long have you lived here? Enough time to digest all accounts and opinions ?
I meet and have met a lot of immigrants who play the racist card.. How many have made their lives a lot easier here by doing so too. Don’t be too taken in, try going round and hearing stories about how some ‘locals’ are treated and have been in the past, especially by some portuguese!! You may bite your lip or pause before blogging. People generally have had enough.
Too easy to shout people down and many immigrants know that which is why we are in the mess we are in now!
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I meet and have met a lot of locals who play the it’s not fair, why is that outsiders come over here and are doing better than me card. The reason they are doing better is because they’re either usually better qualified or have a really strong work ethic and are prepared to work 2 or 3 jobs stacking shelves, cleaning offices and working in restaurants/bars. I don’t know very many locals who would do that now.
My grandparents were proper beans in the sense that they only learnt to speak English when they went to school. My grandmother worked several jobs to make ends meet, and with no help from the States of Jersey may i add. Many locals today have grown lazy and expect things to be automatically handed to them on plate, just because they were born here.
So instead of raising their own game and taking control/responsibility for their own lives, they enviously look at other people’s plates. The local’s “card” is that its always somebody elses fault: the states of jersey, the finance industry, the foreigners. Its never the local’s fault. Never.
When I was at school, a lot of my peers left school at 15 without getting an O Level. They either went to work in the building trade or ended up getting an office job as a junior. A lot of people who went into office jobs coasted along without bothering to do any additional training or qualifications, because why should they. Then they get upset when somebody who does put in the effort gets the better job, the better house, etc.
State benefits and housing should be a safety net and not a life-time right. Unfortunately, there are many locals who think just that: state assistance is a life-long right. I used to live in a housing estate, and contrary to popular opinion, the vast majority of people taking advantage of the system are from Jersey families.
I left home at 16, and ended up living in a bedsit and worked as a waitress with seasonal workers who became good friends. I was the only local at the time.
During my first year of working I spent whatever of my money that was left on going out and drinking with my friends. I was pretty much “skint”. However, the Irish, Scottish and Portuguese workers had saved their money over the year and had the money to treat themselves to nice things. These people taught me a valuable lesson.
So, the following year, I starting saving my money, I got myself an office junior job. Whilst my “local” friends went out on the town, I spent much of 20s studying for my Open University Degree. I might not be setting the world on fire with my job, but what I’ve got, I’m proud of. You get what you put in. Don’t expect a handout, and don’t blame others for any misfortune that might befall you. If you want something you’re going to have to work with what life has given you, and you’ve got to go for it. That’s pretty much what my grandparents and all my Jersey ancestors did before me.
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Your grandparents would not have been ‘beans’, blah.
‘Beans’ only came into being around the time the island started going down the pan. Coincidence?
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Never mind , blah.
let’s just say that ‘beans’ came along around the same time as the States Economic Adviser.
I’m not necessarily blaming your grandparents for the finance industry!
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Oh shush! I’m not taking responsibility for lazy asses you twerp!
Worked hard all my life thanks! Yes I know many locals who are lazy but they come under the same umbrella as moaning fishwives who moan about lazy locals….
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C Le Verdic. Not too sure what you’re saying about my family being beans, but if my relatives are responsible for the downfall of this Island, then its been 200 years coming.
Vicki. I think its quite funny that you of all people in this forum have the audacity to call me a “moaning fish wife” and a “twerp”. It’s actually quite an honour. Thank you. You’re totally right, it really is too easy for people to be shouted down, and I for one will bite my lip before I dare say anything that might go against your opinion. From now on, I shall follow your lead and make sweeping generalisations about others “especially the Portuguese”.
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Reality the world over is that during the good times very few people care about immigration and the make up of society etc etc. However when times get tough and there is little money around and fewer and fewer jobs then people tend to look after their own first. This natural process is very focused on such a small rock – which at times resembles a pressure cooker.
Every society relies on its government to make good and sensible decisions in both the good and bad times. Unfortunately for us living here, our government has consistently made numerous very poor, ill thought through decisions. Over many years the key factor of population control has been raised by the inhabitants and ignored by the politicians. Sadly it is the population who suffer when everything goes wrong.
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No one can blame an economic immigrant for coming here to try to earn a crust. We all strive to better our lot in life and immigrants are entitled to take advantage of the system we have.
What we can blame is the government for allowing such a system in the first place.
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Those that wish for power do not deserve it.
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Dear COM-Mentator April 24 – Will you please stand for election. I would definitely vote for you – I love your suggestions (points 1- 8,) they are really good ideas and make perfect sense. Why can’t the States come up with basic common sense suggestions and more importantly enforce them!!!
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Excellent! The states have betrayed all the locals AGAIN, sold you all down the river, and you’ve all fallen for there lies AGAIN! Viva Le Etats, Mon Prats! HAHA
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The fact is….it worked when we had work permits…removing them was a major mistake those guilty parties know who they are and why they did it….these pivotal events in our history have long reaching and bad knock on effects…..and it looks like being the same with the Reform Panel….that is unless soem of these politicians grow a pair and resist it…then do it properly as this system is dragging us into the abyss.
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Talk about shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Every day more and more people are coming to Jersey then they bring family over to look after their children etc this should have been stopped years ago. Today 90 people from a bank will know their fate yet we are still have not implemnented our immigration policy and ensureed we have the staff to support the new system. Companies from other countries are bringing staff over surely people here can be trained for these jobs. Why are immigrants being employed in States and Postal positions, shops and banks. Also why aren’t people medically screened when they come here.
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All migrants should should face a criminal record check, and be medically screened- Also, these individuals should pay all the associated costs.
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Of course we would have many fewer families coming in, and then growing up to need housing, if you lost qualies by marrying (or civil partnering) a non-islander. Look at the wedding photos in the JEP next time and see how many are Jersey-UK or elsewhere, versus Jersey-Jersey. It cannot be a big problem as a Jersey born person can perfectly well settle and work in the UK (and presumably if married to a French person in France and so on), and if you love someone is this a big price to pay? To make matters worse in employment terms the immigrant spouse of someone with qualies gets qualies. This could be stopped to improve the imployment situation for the rest. To those who want to freeze immigration, I ask, what is your policy on these 2 issues?
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Too many people here are being too emotional, one way or another. We are where we are. Blood cannot be an issue if someone has lived here some time and paid taxes and social security. I noted the interesting comment above about the Portuguese lady who had lived here for 35 years being given a hard time by a 20 year old; she has paid a lot more tax and social security here than he has. Less than 30% here have all 4 grandparents born on the island, and I would imagine that if one went to the 8 great-grandparents it would be fewer. Probably even some of the more emotional ‘deport them all’ commentators have some non-Jersey ancestors – perhaps they do not even know it! Pure border controls are not possible, certainly as far as the UK is concerned; there is an issue of reciprocity. It is lucky that Jersey born people are allowed to work (as well as live) in the UK, and best not to upset that apple cart. The key is employment. If local people can be got into local jobs one way or another, then the issue of further immigration will be solved as well. Encourage and train people for jobs that need doing. Then make them to these jobs by stopping benefits for those who will not do jobs they are perfectly fit to do. Then, there is no need for most further immigration.
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But are there enough jobs for those here already?
In previous recessions immigrants returned home, but now we have our generous welfare system……………..
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I think that there are enough jobs. Look for example at how many u-5 years there are in non-skilled jobs, versus how many (5+ years res) out of work. You never get 100% employment; you need to make an allowance for the gaps caused by islanders entering the job market, people retiring, and gaps caused by voluntary turnover.
The deduction from this is that we need to bear down on the welfare system. The bearing down on benefits would a) reduce the level for all, and b)make it very painful to remain here on benefits U-5 years (although I had always been under the impression that you could not legally have any benefits before 5 years!).
We do need to be very careful about the genuinely long term ill/disabled, though, but conversely deal with the scroungers. I am sure that borderline cases are quite tricky, though; the bad back syndrome.
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wake up people! so we sending all immigrants back!Great! but who will clean our nice 5 bed houses,look after jersey cows and work on farms? just a thought…
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The farmer’s family can do that.
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Look people it’s as simple as this, we can no longer permit people to come and work in Jersey. If as Jerry says we can’t stop them entering then lets take another route, lets deny them housing. I don’t mean the current shelve the problem for later quals system I mean you cannot buy or rent any accommodation for any period of time greater than a holiday.
In other words holidaymakers welcome people looking for work not welcome. White vans coming off the boat, have you had 5 yrs continous residency if not turn em back.
There is hope for the future and it lies in diversification. We have a beautiful holiday destination, lets make it affordable, reduce the cost of airlines operating here. Provide fully inclusive weekend breaks. Jt’s initiative of providing every home with a superfast broadband connection is a good idea although I’d like to know what we’ll pay to use it but why has it been rolled out at La Moye first?
Town should have been first, that’s where the business is centred and business won’t mind paying for it, then roll it out island wide.
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Jersey must reintroduce work permits because all other countries are very particular who they chose to enter their country and work.
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Work permits are aust for non-EU nationals.
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If people don’t believe that Jersey immigration is determined by UK LAw, then try this:
Go to:
http://www.gov.je/Working/WorkPermits/Pages/NeedWorkPermit.aspx
Then select the button against the Work Visa section about “Do I Need A Visa?”.
Also:
Further go through the Immigraiton Legislation, which is the exact copy of the UK, to be foudn at: http://www.jerseylaw.je/law/display.aspx?url=lawsinforce%2fconsolidated%2f21%2f21.700_Appendix_ImmigrationOrder1993.htm
Jersey are bound by UK Law on this as a result of the free travel area. Bad luck to those who didn’t believe it, or wish it wasn’t the case. Simple it is…. now perhaps you should educate yourselves – particularly Sally Ann who doesn’t even understand what a degree is!
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Even if what you say were true, it would be simple enough for Jersey to enact something to put a stop to it.
You have changed the note of your argument from an initial assertion that Jersey cannot control immigration- unfortunately for you, it can.
At the least, we have the Regulation of Undertakings Law and the Housing Law.
It would seem that you still have some way to go with regard to getting your facts right.
If you did have a degree, as you calim, you would know that one of the links which you kindly provide is not a source of law at all, but simply something written by an employee at the relevant department. Do you have any research skills? I think perhaps not.
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Ahhahh… exactly. And as JJ says below – I have always maintained as per my earlier posts it is Non-EU nationals.
Based on Jersey’s acceptance of the UK immigration and EU provisions, then we are caught up with accepting EU nationals willy nilly, and non-EU via UK immigration law.
True, Jersey COULD change the law, however that woudl mean cutting ourselves loose from the EU provisions we have accepted. I agree with most here on the island that it isn’t fair that Jersey people cannot work in the EU (My Jersey passport since naturalising also has this provision). But the EU would not allow us in the free-trade zone, and all sorts of other financial benefits we have as a result of this provision would be stopped.
This discussion is had by Scrutiny and Immigration everyone time it is raised, and alas the hands are tied.
BUT My points have not changed: Immigraiton Law as it is now, and without any proposals to change is BASE DON UK IMMIGRATION LAW! Those who still dont’ believe this, never will!
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Don’t dig yourself in any further!
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On the contrary,the restriction in the Jersey passport from working in the EU (except Britain)is actually very fair in the overall deal negotiated with the EU on Britain’s accession. It was the quid pro quo for us being allowed within the EU tariff wall for trade of goods and services while we were exempted from not having to accept the burden of EU rules if we were a member and also meant we didn’t have to pay the £6,000 per household per year net to EU funds that the UK taxpayer currently has to (its been higher in real terms). It would be a higher amount for us if we joined given our higher per capita income on which it is based. If Jersey residents want that restriction removed then become full EU members or marry an EU national over there. We got a very good deal back in 1973.
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Strange about this anger toward RT.
As a lawyer I can confirm that RT is correct in relation to migrating to Jersey. It relies on UK law.
Interesting how people get a pact mentality when they are wrong.
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For an apparent lawyer you seem to be not very competent at spotting distinctions within the point made and subsequently reiterated and the various responses thereto.
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Dawn – I was not aware of the requirement to become full EU members – interesting, and appreciate it. Makes much more sense. Either way, as most here have pointed out, my Immigration law argument is correct.
Jersey Immigration is determined by UK Immigration Law.
Argument is finished… and won.
Happy Days
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Jersey immigration law is not something which is determined by the UK.
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I read your points from the first couple of posts and you are correct in what you say but it only concerns people from non EU countries. Anyone from Australia, New Zealand, Asia or America etc have to go through the process of a points system. EU members can come and go as they please.
So, whilst you make a good and valid point about certain countries and how their members have to meet a requirement to work in UK and then Jersey you are completely ignoring the point that anyone from an EU country is free to come and do as they please.
Personally, I would like it to be more like the points system but then I cant imagine how many points you would need to pick some spuds. Not sure if you know this but around 20 years ago picking spuds was a very well paid job, I knew may local people at the time doing it because the money was great. Then along came the free world economy and the locals were forced out because the newcomers woud do the same job for half the price.
I dont blame the farmers for taking on the cheaer labour though, that is due to the big wigs owning the companies that sold their produce wanteing bigger profit margins.
Capitalism is great if you are at the right end of it earning a major profit off the exploitation of cheap labour. Jersey bought into it and we are reaping the mess that it left behind. Well, your average Joe is reaping the mess but the likes of our government are not. They put us in this mess, go take some time out to go look at the mansions they live in. Just take a cycle in the country parishes and see what capitalism has done for them, then look at what the rest of us have ended up with and ask yourself, was capitalism the right way to go!
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Sorry mon vie,but “well paid spud pickers” in the late 60s and early 70s the labour was mostly Breton,they came here on work permits,seasonal mostly,many arrived on good old rousseaux aviation clapped out old Dakotas,were paid poorly by our standards but had no work in Brittany,lived in appalling sub standard accommodation.Then came along EC subsidy rules for France and things improved for them.At no time temps passé have agricultural workers been paid well.
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A farmer I know bemoans the loss of the Breton workforce as they were the hardest working staff he ever had. No one has come near since.
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No capitalism wasn’t the way to go for the 99% but is great for the top 1% who have creamed it over the last 40 years. Unfortunately most are too dim and easily confused with B.S. put out to realise that they are losing out.
EU nationals have access to the Jersey job market because the states didn’t control UK nationals coming in. If they did this then the rest of the EU could be controlled as well. The EU doesn’t allow preferential treatment for a member state over any other. Ask your local politician about it and see what they have to say.
Using housing controls as a method to try and control immigration has shown to be an absolute failure as it hasn’t put off enough people. Mind you it isn’t surprising when you take into account the ability to better oneself which would be much less likely if not impossible for the majority coming to the island.
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Fully agree with you – and my points has always been about non-EU immigration, which is where this debate started.
EU Immigration is another beast, and believe that if we choose as Dawn says, to benefit from the free-tariff walls, but nto have to pay for full EU membership, then caught in a bad position.
Personally I believe free-EU migration was never the best decision, however see the reasons behind it.
Nevertheless, the issue the States are looking at isn’t EU , but non-EU immigration.
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RT
The reason why the States aren’t looking at EU immigration is very simple – they can’t actually do anything to prevent it.
Housing laws could be changed to coot Guernsey’s way of dealing with the impact of EU immigration, but over here the genie is already well and truly out of the bottle.
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I think you lot need to go out more
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would love to but even though working . cant afford to.
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Talking to a Romanian yesterday who was bragging that 22 people from his village were staying in a St Helier lodging house – registered for 8 people. We cannot do this any more.
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Sounds like a good excuse to do a pagan dance outside.
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