Immigration inspectors and photo ID cards
Tuesday 19th February 2013, 3:00PM GMT.
Deputy Sean Power, who chaired the sub-panel
PHOTOGRAPHIC identity cards, new immigration inspectors to raid building sites and incentives for Islanders to blow the whistle on unauthorised white-van men are all needed to control Jersey’s spiralling population, according to a group of influential States backbenchers.
These and other far-reaching recommendations to bolster population controls are released today in a report by the Corporate Services Scrutiny sub- panel on measures to manage immigration.
They are published against the background of unprecedented levels of unemployment and in the wake of the 2011 Census which showed the population had soared by around 10,000 in ten years.
Deputy Sean Power, who chaired the sub-panel, said that too little had been done for too long to control the population and, as a result, the Island’s public services and infrastructure were under increasing pressure.
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
Thursday 20 June
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Best thing about photographic ID Cards? You can only be issued one upon presenting some valid photographic ID! Can’t see that wasting any money!
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But we already have photo ID in the form of our driving licences, so a simple adaptation is all that is needed.
Nothing to cause a fuss about, lets move on !
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Who carries their photo id with them unless they are going to be required to produce it?
I certainly never carry my driving license or my bank cards (because of the RFID chips within them, which I disable with a hammer as soon as I receive them to stop them transmitting my location) or anything that will identify who I am.
I am me, I know that and no one else needs to know.
Next thing you know it is all humans they will want micro-chipping, well that ain’t happening to me.
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James
You are confusing RFID with contactless credit cards. There are currently no RFID chips on your bank cards or your Jersey driving license. Hitting them with a hammer will not improve your privacy but may be cathartic if you get a kick from hammering things.
Ignorance is bliss!
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Contactless payment cards do not include RFID chips?
So they transmit your details but not by radio frequency?
Did you even read what you wrote before you wrote it?
You should work for the States you would fit right in.
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No cellullar phone either, James? Probably the best way of giving away your location.
Got to laugh at the idea of those cards transmitting for miles. If fitted with RFID they only respond to an extremely nearby interrogation source. Unless brothels take contactless credit cards, those with something to hide need not worry excessively!
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James
“I certainly never carry my driving license or my bank cards (because of the RFID chips within them, which I disable with a hammer as soon as I receive them to stop them transmitting my location) or anything that will identify who I am.”
What have you got to hide?
Why are you so paranoid?
Do you scuttle around Jersey in a tan Mac, Trilby hat and dark shades per chance??
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… I’m only guessing Wiley, but i’m willing to bet you wear a tinfoil hat to stop “THEM” from involving you in their nefarious deeds!!!
Really, keep smiling.
xxx
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James
I repeat that contactless payment cards do NOT contain RFID chips.
I don’t want to be too pedantic but, since you are so keen to show your ignorance, RFID technology as used in the newer passports conforms to ISO 15693. The chips in contactless payment cards like Paywave and Paypass (used in Visa and Mastercard cards) have writeable memory and processing (unlike RFID) and conform to an entirely different standard ISO 14443.
Bored yet? Get a grip!
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Wilson
With all due respect….
“RFID can be used in a variety of applications, such as:
Access management
Tracking of goods
Tracking of persons and animals
Toll collection and contactless payment
Machine readable travel documents
Smartdust (for massively distributed sensor networks)
Tracking sports memorabilia to verify authenticity
Airport baggage tracking logistics”
James may have a point to some extent, but I consider his paranoia to be a bit alarming.
He portrays himself to be quite a shady character if he wants “to stop them transmitting my location) or anything that will identify who I am.”
What are you REALLY up to in your spare time eh James?
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It’s a nice idea Jon, but what about people who have had their licence revoked due to legal breaches or medical reasons?
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Mr Power is only after publicity remember he was going to sort out Condor Ferries more competion lower prices it now costs £265 on average to go to France come on Mr Power lets have action not just hot air
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Also, has there ever been a case where the police have arrested someone and then not been able to identify them? Establishing someones identity isn’t that hard to do.
If we are going to start prosecuting people I would like the authorities to start with anyone who employs an illegal worker. A minimum of £10,000 pounds per employee would end all incentives for companies to try and use cheap illegal workers.
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All this should have been done years ago. The island has allowed huge low wage immigration and to add insult to injury changed the rules just before the crash to give welfare handouts after 5 years.
We now have record unemployment
This madness needs to end now
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Just be careful that you don’t bite your nose off to spite your face, Mr. Power.
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Deputy Sean Power justs wants votes but what does he know. They make it sound as if hundreds of people are coming into Jersey every day. The problems came over years & years & a few ID cards wont help you. Every small Island on the globe has a problem. You either have an economy with wealth, so the population increases, or you have no economy, no wealth and the population decreases. I love the bit “raid building sites”.
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Heh Loveit,
I like the bit about raiding sites as well.
They used to do that in the 70′s as well, obviously it didn’t work then either
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I’ll wait, I’ll see but I wont hold my breath.
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It’s OK saying blow the whistle on white van man but how long will it take for the states dept to do something?
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Long after said van has disapeared I would wager….
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Perhaps it needs somebody from regs. To be at the boat when it docks
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That is far to a straightforward and simple idea for the states to take up!
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“all needed to control Jersey’s spiralling population” … stable doors & bolting horses spring to mind … where have these people been hiding for the last 10 years?
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there are few sites available so it shouldent be too hard
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ID cards, workplace raids, informers, sounds a bit like East Germany during the Cold War.
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Actually it sounds a lot like where I live – the US. We have ID cards, workplace raids , road side border checks, it’s against the law to drive without your license and as a legal alien if I don’t carry my Green card with me at all times I am breaking the law.
Of course the immigration problem here is just as bad so…
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The last part of your message JCat is certainly true if you walk down king street these days and listen to all of the gobbledygook
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It’s annoying when you speak just one language and others speak 2 or more
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No doubt you roam the streets speaking fluent Jerrais with all your friends.
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No, but I do hope and expect to hear english spoken in a place which is predominently english speaking.
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This has tones of a ‘Banana Republic’ For goodness sake just issue work permits. Working without a permit = £1000 fine.
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So he is back to the old chestnut of people having to carry ID cards. I am all for controlling immigration but not to the detriment of my civil liberty. I will not carry an ID card to be produced on demand when instructed by the police / border control / HMRC or anybody else.
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But I will carry a driving licence and/or passport…… which somehow does infringe my civil liberties……. Odd !!!
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I think the point is that you only HAVE to carry your passport when abroad. You only HAVE to carry your driving licence when dricing.
If you are expected to carry your ID at all times, that’s not on.
However, if this is just a modification of the existing social security card (with a photo and work/housing quals printed on it) I’m all for it – you’ll only be expected to carry it when applying for a job or moving house so I don’t see what the issue is.
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UK Student – the planned new card will not (at least initally) include a photo. For this reason it will be as toothless as the existing Social Security card.
What’s worse is that as it will not include a photo the whole system will be open to massive fiddling as the europeans will just get one or two geuine cards and then hand them round to friends and family as required.
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@Jon
I don’t need my passport in my own country only when I chose to go overseas so that is my choice. I don’t have to have a driving license but if I chose to drive I need a license same if I chose to fish or fly. The key diffence these are all things I choose to do but if they force us all to have an I’d card I don’t want just to live that is more like living in a communist state or nazi state where they start to control the population and I don’t want to live like that. I like the freedom we have and people fought for.
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In one way we’re all foreigners here. Just because Mr Power might have family that moved here a few hundred years ago, doesn’t give him the right to call himself a true local. If a builder decides he needs help and gets somebody from abroad, it should be his/her decision. Imagine if the States told people, we aren’t allowed to order from the internet???????????? By tagging people like sheep, doesn’t create jobs……..
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Aren’t you forced to have a Social Security card, if you want to work in Jersey you have to have one.
If you are stopped, for whatever reason, by the Police and asked for your identity you are obliged to provide it, giving false details is an offence, so having an ID Card to hand can only help to prove who you are and simplify the system.
I don’t get what some people are so afraid of (unless they have something to hide), many European countries have an ID Card system and to the best of my knowledge, very few if any have become violent Communist Dictatorships because of them !
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Kyle – so your builder should be allowed to employ who he wants – who will probably bring their family too and after 5 years get welfare not to mention use of the hospital and education.
This madness has to stop before every penny of tax is being used to prop up the welfare system
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Kyle Mr Power is Irish !!!
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Sorry Jon, that’s not true. Under the Police Procedures and Criminal Evidence Law in Jersey, Article 12, Section C I believe a person cannot be detained for the sole purpose of discovering his or her name. Failing to provide your details to a Police Officer in the street is not an offence – if you’re a motorist on the other hand..
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We used to be able to do that kind of thing on surname and who’s father knew who,who’s cousin did what! That is what still makes you a real local. No piece of plastic will change that one!!! But then some of us have names that go back 500 years. We are literally the stuck like the barnacles of St. Ouen.
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I used to be able to go to the cinema, eat out with 7 pints all for 2p and still have change for the horse and cart ride home…and see other there, that used to be all fields.
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Well, there was a time not long ago when you could go into a shop without hearing the assitants speaking to each other in some foreign language and failing to do their job.
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That is why we shop on-line!
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Yes and they wonder why!!
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Its all quite simple really. From tomorrow, unless you are coming here because you are essential to the Island, namely Dr’s etc then , you will not be issued with a social security card SO CANNOT WORK. if you employ some one who does not have the card then you go to prison. The States have totally shafted the Island and need to be bold and do something now. Redundancy sucks, been there and done that. i have looked after myself, never taken anything from the system, have a lovely house , no mortgage and work in the uk, (part time) and have a great life style here in jersey. I love the Island but the tumble weed will be blowing down the street if you do not act now. more job losses to follow, sad but true. photo id is a non starter……
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Well said! I could not agree more. The situation is out of control to a stage where token measures will not make a dent in the problem. STOP the flood gates now and then start dealing with what we are left with. Australia have the right idea – if you have been in prison, no entry, if you are of no real use to the island/country, no entry. Simple, but are the States brave enough to actually do it?!
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How many times have we heard this??? Yes all talk and no action.. you have been discussing this for years so why change a habit of a life time!!!!!!
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What are you saying Mr Power,white van man is the problem as well as immigration,Our problem is more likely the mass numbers coming from the EU,Which unless you have changed the law behind my back we are not part of,so if I was you this would be a better option to spend our money on.
The good old permits seems to spring to mind.
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Deputy Power enjoys the spotlight. He does not do anything without letting the media know. #insecure
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Well at least he is not mincing his words and this is the first headline I have seen with a hint of ‘action’.
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What building sites ?Mr power have you been reading mein kamf?
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I don’t think that he has, Twob. Have you been reading it by any chance?
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Hello Mr Power, get a grip. Don’t just pick on white van men and building sites. Best start with the “convienece stores” , and all the hotels and restaurants. Check out all the shops on Main St, each and every one employing “non locals” …hurry up and sort this problem.
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Totally agree,restaurants ,takeaways ,shops ,bars,fine the employers who pay cash in hand.some people have 3Jobs,I partime legal other 2cash in hand,and as they only declare one jobs,they get benefits.what about people that get cash in hand 80.00 a day in some places,private houses! Surely we need to think of a way to stop this.people that have houses in their own country been rented out to pay their mortgage but don’t declare the house to tax and get benefits here.there is so much going on ,who knows where and how to stop this.maybe an incentive for whistleblowers who have all this info,like tax refund of 200 if u shop someone,then u,l see everyone backstabbing each other .
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Better still, boycott the shops on main street that employ only immigrants and let them know why you are doing it. This will save us billions in welfare handouts in future years.
Most of the stuff is available on line
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i already have and only employ local jersey people
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This would only cause more unemployment ,more tax payers money going to benefits,better employment laws would be more beneficial .
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What so many fail to realise is that the people that are unemployed are not willing to take the jobs that other people from outside the island are willing to do. I fail to see how ID cards are going to help this situation, all that will happen is the same people are unemployed and businesses suffer because they are unable to employ the necessary staff
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Ah, yes, the old chestnut Lucy. People “fail to realise it” because it is a load of bunkum!
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The social problem will not end with or without the immigrants. Laziness cannot be cured
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That is correct. So the root problem needs to be tackled without the present uncontrolled immigration making it more difficult.
Once we deal with immigration, then we will be able to look at the problems of our island without the present level of soiling.
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But Lucy, the Soc Sec can simply reduce benefits to a sum less than that which would be earned doing said jobs….or even better, cancelled completely so they HAVE to apply for these jobs.
Willingness should not come into it…..they should not be able to pick and choose a job if they NEED to earn an income.
If they lose the job because they do not work well then back to square one……reduced benefits, encouraging them to continue seeking employment for a better income.
It really IS that simple!
This may encourage a better work ethic too….so good for everyone
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And there me thinking the door is shut to immigrants coming here to work, obviously I’m wrong again
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work permits with photos and visa’s.
and it is possible to cheack all passports and id on the way into the island.
they do it else where .
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he is being paid for this rubbish
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Better late than never. Also, how about incentivising people to repatriate themselves the moment they appear at Social Security with their hand out ?
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When I was young, any non-local who needed assistance was given assistance in the form of a one way boat ticket home. It worked.
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we used to do this many years ago.
seem to of stopped.
possibly as a chap was coming to the end of his sentence at la moye . and wanted to sent to australia as opposed to being sent to the uk.
never did find out the outcome .
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We don’t need a new bit of plastic to carry around what we need is a proper border control and visa system.
If we had a system like Australia and New Zealand we could control the borders ensuring that anyone that would like to come and join our community are here to benefit the community as well as themselves and that they are not just here to take advantage of our health and services provided.
Immigration is not bad, as long as it is controlled.
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Sounds like the same thing we had under the Nazis!!!
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No, I don’t think so, Nick. It sounds like a way to control the immigration which is blighting the island.
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I don’t know if immigration is the problem or the laziness on those staying years on social
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Unfortunately, I suspect that the former is the cause.
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The Nazis went home, my father saw them go.
The immigrants arriving now will never leave once they are getting welfare housing etc – you happy to pay more tax to support them?
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Passports & Driving Licences already act as official proof of identification, so why bother introducing a new system for people who already hold these items ! What bugs me the most with this idea is the one of ”new immigration inspectors” as this will mean new jobs created, further expence to the states wage & pension bill, and also a feeling that our own customs and immigration department are no good at the job they are doing at present !
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Is incentivising a word?????
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Not officially Clare. I invented it. But I don’t see why it shouldn’t be added to the Oxford English Dictionary. Other more ridiculous words are lodged every year after all.
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…take a plane, or a boat,and head for Australia or New Zealand,(eat all your fruit before arriving),send us a post card to let us know how you got on…..,we play like a kinda garden, at immigration control, compared with down under.
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Down under is a laugh, what you see on TV is a joke too. Of course they stop a few criminals at the airport and a few youngsters that have their CV in a suitcase but the reality is they can’t stop most. Australia will have a massive problem in the future with unemployment and crime but that’s a different story. They are only doing well because of natural resources (at the moment), so don’t compare a massive country to Jersey.
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Quite so. Australia ahs got it sorted. Immigration is very strict and you have to make all sorts of undertakings to get in there. If you are very lucky, you might be allowed to remain there eventually.
Australia is huge and underpopulated and a former crown possession as well, yet it imposes these controls. they are proud of their country, even though there is no culture. Moaning incomers get short shrift. If you are brought in to do a job, you leave if the job ends. no messing. Not like over here where people pretend to come in for one job and then move onto another.
We are a tiny island with a rich history; people have always wanted to come here to settle and very often, to impose their moaning upon us. Yet we continue to evade the issue and let them keep coming in. The contrast is quite amazing.
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im jersey born, as well as generations of my family. I have a white Van and i work on building sites.
If some inspector came up to me asking questions, id knock them out with a piece of 2×4 id bury them under the foundations!
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I can see this turning out like ‘Boys from the Blackstuff’
‘Oh, here they are lads, lets have a fag behind the skips and come out when they have gone’
(like the Census)
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Brilliant, please do let me know how that turns out for you.
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That’s what I like zero tolerance.
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Something needs to be done very soon!
There are jersey born white van men who are out of work because of europeans buying cheap vans from the auction and going around taking all the work for quarter of the price, these immigrants don’t register there business nor they have a license to drive the van and don’t have public liability insurance, They also fly tip there loads to avoid dump charges.
People who are self employed earning under £1000 a month may aswell sell there van and go on income support because your better off!
Thanks
PS: To our european friends ”GO HOME”
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I agree- I keep hearing the blabbering voices up at the auction and it is evry irritating.
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And how do you know this for fact?
Serious question.
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Just go up to the auction, look around you and listen. You will find all of the evidence that you need.
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I’m going to auctions and yes I do speak my native language, but I’ve spent more years in Jersey than in my native European country. So Jersey is my home, whether you like it or not
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That’s fine, blabber away with everyone else up there!
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So what’s your comment really about?
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What is your comment really about?
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It won’t be long before we are all chipped
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After reading all these posts we really do have a racist problem.
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Do agree!
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Me too. It’s caused by too much immigration and the Jersey people becoming fed up with it.
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Their, their, their not there, there, there!!!!
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what exactly is this man on..? one minute he wants to chase the white van men…and I agree with that…then he wants more houses built….this myth of a housing shortage which it clearly is, needs highlighting….never have I seen so many houses for sale….and as foe what constitutes a ‘shortage’ you can NOT put a pint in a half pint pot…if you keep letting more and more people in with an unbridled immigration policy….courtesy of Ozouf then the Tax and spend idea will crash and burn…we need to close the gates and consolidate….and not trot out this tired and lame.’housing shortage’crap which has been No MORE than a developers charter…get real for goodness sake and try to get a sober view.
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Correct
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After reading all these posts who says we haven’t got a racist problem?
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We do. It comes about because most people are sick and tired of what is happening to their island. I am happy to stand up and be counted as a “wacist” if that is what it takes.
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Ditto!
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Shame on you and a shame we have narrow minded ignorant people who have not noticed we live in a multi cultural society, I feel sorry for the kids of today with people lie you around.
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No, it is just a form of brainwashing to which you have clearly fallen victim.
We don’t live in a multicultural society. I feel “sorry for the kids” if you think that we do, but that must ultimately remain a matter for you to resolve within your own mind.
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Did we vote for a multi cultural society – No
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It sounds as though you might be narrow minded, Sid, particularly with your intolerant attitude towards the views of others.
I think that you need to look around you- the idea of a multicultural society is something out of a left-wing text book where it should remain-it doesn’t exist here, thankfully.
The united kingdom presents a perfect example of the divisive nature of forced multiculturalism and its extremely damaging effects on society. I would certainly feel sorry for our children and their future if such a pernicious thing is allowed to take root within our island.
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Goodness me you really haven’t got a clue.
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Well, your comments give an indication as to your thought process, Sid. That said, Bill alluded to the fact that the peculiarity of your view is a matter for your own mind, so perhaps we don’t have a clue. It rather sounds, with respect, as if you might not either.
Given the fact that the evidence that we have is based upon your commentary, then your point regarding our not having a clue clearly works both ways.
It therefore follows that “you don’t have a clue” about the opinions of Bill, Overpopulated, myself and of course, the very many others who are sick and tired of these “holier than thou” Uncle Tom muliticultural lay-preachers.
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Would you, by any chance, have a clue, Sid?
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Shame on you Sid and a shame we have narrow minded ignorant people who have not noticed we don’t live in a multi cultural society, I feel sorry for the kids of today with people lie you around.
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The only “racist problem” that we have is people misusing the word to try and stifle debate about our island and in particular about the immigration abuses that we now face.
There are a few “liberal uncle Toms” who seize upon the racist word as a tool to sifle debate because they have not the intellect to recognise the problem, nor to participate in a mature discussion.
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Why are people so incensed about the idea of an ID card??
If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about in my opinion!!
Personally, I’d like to have DNA swabs taken from everyone as standard……then detecting the prepetrators of crimes will be a lot easier……not to mention finding the fathers of many kids whose remaining parent relies on states handouts…..then they could pay their dues too!
Perhaps the idea of being easily caught would deter many people from such things, make them think twice and act responsibly…..
Judging by some of the comments on here there are far too many people who have things to hide…..
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Why does the government have any right to even suggest that we should carry ID cards?
What right does any government have to tell me what to do – God gave me free will, no man can take it from me.
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OK James……back to that fictictious superhero…. “God”.
I think you will find that in reality man CAN actually take away your free will if they so wished…….
You are sounding increasingly like a paranoid delusional!
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Nice idea, did you ever hear of the West Midlands Serious Crimes Squad?
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Now disbanded, of course.
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The Birmingham Six had nothing to hide.
The Guildford Four had nothing to hide.
…and we all know what happened to them.
If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to prove.
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Renegade
What has that got to do with implementing ID cards or DNA swabs???
If DNA was used back then as much as it is today then this probably wouldn’t have happened.
You highlight 2 groups of people, but what about the countless numbers who have not been caught yet or were caught too late when DNA could have found them sooner, before they committed more atrocities???
You only have to look at why so many “cold case” files are being re-opened now they have this technology….
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Well, PP, you said in your earlier post that, if you have nothing to hide, then there is nothing to fear from the imposition of id cards.
The “nothing to hide” argument is something which is regularly argued in response to objections to governmental attempts to impinge upon civil liberties, as we see here.
The relevance of the comment made by “Renegade” is that the many serious miscarriages of justice show that the “nothing to hide” argument does have significant shortcomings. With all due respect is not a very insightful approach.
In addition to the list presented by “Renegade”, one could also add countless other examples. A notable one would be the Kisko case, where officers deliberately sought to conceal evidence.
Another one which is bound to be added to the list sooner or later is the case of Norris and Dobson, this one being even more notable because the “conviction”, if one might call it that, resulted from a setting aside of the “double jeopardy” rule.This was the second trial in this case- no doubt the prosecution would have brought the case to court over and over again until it got the result that it wanted.
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Keith
In my opinion it is a very valid argument. If you have done nothing wrong and don’t intend to either then what is the problem?
Perhaps you should look at it from another perspective…..what about others who have or intend to do something wrong? Wouldn’t you feel safer knowing there is a better means of finding these perpetrators….particularly if they committed a crime against YOU?
There is no relevance to both yours and Renegade’s arguments in my opinion. You rake up old case examples. DNA evidence was either not around or in its infancy back then……besides, the cases you refer to involve an element of police corruption….again DNA evidence could help to disprove and reduce corrupt processes.
If the government wanted to “frame” you for whatever reason then they could do this quite easily …. without the need to introduce ID’s.
Personally, I don’t think ID cards would do anything to improve things, but taking DNA swabs could make the world of difference.
Some of you people do nothing but moan and conjure up irrelevant arguments when others try to find solutions to our economic problems.
These ID cards could reduce the “off the boat” manual workers stealing local jobs, they could prevent benefit fraudsters who do “private”, cash in hand work and they could help to ensure those who should be paying taxes ARE paying taxes.
What is wrong with that?
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Well, I understand that there are arguments on both sides- your well-articulated comment amply shows that.
I am one of those who does not subscribe to the “nothing to hide” view. I have a background in law and I am acutely aware of the many miscarriages of justice that continue to happen, both here and elsewhere.
That said, your point with regard to detection of crime is a good one and is perhaps the only cogent ground for such state interference.
On balance, however, I remain uncomfortable with the scenarios which you put in your post. For me, the “nothing to hide” argument usually foreshadows some sort of governmental interfernce or other mischief.
I am also mindful of the remarks made by the late Lord Denning in the context, if I remember correctly, of the Guildford Four- I recall that he stated that it was acceptable for a few innocent people to remain in jail as a sort of “quid per pro” for the imperfections of the criminal justice system. This kind of pragmatism seems to sum up the shortcomings of the “nothing to hide” argument.
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PHOTOGRAPHIC identity cards can solve an unemployment? Maybe it is all about more money for States – another plastic in my pocket – another fee…
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